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Post by writerguy on Sept 11, 2018 14:30:56 GMT
These forums have been great as I've realized the woman I was with for 15 years is an FA from this and other reading. The question I have is this: the event that caused me to finally break things off with her was that she got together with a man (16 years older, father-like figure, had a girlfriend) after the death of a mutual friend. She ghosted me for 12 days while working through her grief with this man (and having lots of sex with him.) He finally blew her off and she deemed him "unreliable." (He mother told me this.) When I next encountered her - right before I broke it off - she seemed distracted and distant. I've read that FAs can get caught up in a fantasy - I think this man was her "fantasy man" and that it had been developing for some months - and when he was done with her she seemed to be thinking about him. Is that possible? She seemed to not understand why I was so upset by all this and just explained it as "I'm a square peg in a round hole; I'm no good at relationships; I don't think one man can ever be enough for me; what's the point of being in a relationship anyway, they just end of we die." Thoughts?
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Post by epicgum on Sept 11, 2018 16:08:08 GMT
I've read that traumatic episodes that remind people of their own mortality can trigger affairs. (People think ..is this all there is??? Am I ready to commit to abandoning all of that potential???") So I'd imagine that played a large role in this.
Otherwise, yes, fantasy played a huge role at least for me (FA). Fantasy is appealing because you are ultimately in total control and loss of control/abandonment and autonomy is the primary fear of all insecure. However, and I'm just spitballing here s bit... for the most part, one can keep the fantasy as bay by projecting it safely into the future. It's when demands of commitment or of mortality causes us to reckon with abandoning the fantasy or dealing with the loss of the fantasy that you get activated.
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Post by writerguy on Sept 11, 2018 16:58:32 GMT
Thanks so much, epicgum. So some of what I might have seen in her the couple times I encountered after this and before I broke up with her might have been mourning that the fantasy with this guy didn't happen as she'd hoped? And she seemed focused on telling me how much time she'd spent with him (while ignoring me totally) not realizing how that made me feel maybe because of the fantasy? Do you think she was conscious of the cheating or was it a subconscious thing?
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Post by alexandra on Sept 11, 2018 17:17:01 GMT
Do you think she was conscious of the cheating or was it a subconscious thing? Just because someone has attachment issues doesn't make them unaccountable for their actions. They are not actually a little kid, even if the severity of their attachment wounding and any other comorbid issues that exist make them act like one. If you weren't in an open relationship, then she was well aware that after 15 years, she was cheating on you. And she didn't care at the time. I know this has been very difficult for you and you've said you've also been considering why you stayed in the situation for so long. Have you been giving more thought to that recently and less to her?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 17:44:49 GMT
These forums have been great as I've realized the woman I was with for 15 years is an FA from this and other reading. The question I have is this: the event that caused me to finally break things off with her was that she got together with a man (16 years older, father-like figure, had a girlfriend) after the death of a mutual friend. She ghosted me for 12 days while working through her grief with this man (and having lots of sex with him.) He finally blew her off and she deemed him "unreliable." (He mother told me this.) When I next encountered her - right before I broke it off - she seemed distracted and distant. I've read that FAs can get caught up in a fantasy - I think this man was her "fantasy man" and that it had been developing for some months - and when he was done with her she seemed to be thinking about him. Is that possible? She seemed to not understand why I was so upset by all this and just explained it as "I'm a square peg in a round hole; I'm no good at relationships; I don't think one man can ever be enough for me; what's the point of being in a relationship anyway, they just end of we die." Thoughts? How are you doing today, i hope you are ok x
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Post by epicgum on Sept 11, 2018 17:48:14 GMT
Thanks so much, epicgum. So some of what I might have seen in her the couple times I encountered after this and before I broke up with her might have been mourning that the fantasy with this guy didn't happen as she'd hoped? And she seemed focused on telling me how much time she'd spent with him (while ignoring me totally) not realizing how that made me feel maybe because of the fantasy? Do you think she was conscious of the cheating or was it a subconscious thing? Well, like Alexadra said...either way, she still did cheat on you regardless of her thought process and that is a big deal. But in terms of her mental state, avoidance corresponds with less sensitivity to others feelings (literally slower than AP to recognize facial cues), I'd say that it's easily possible that she was so wrapped up in her own private needs/fears/hurts that she had no idea how much the cheating would hurt you or even maybe that you would mind. (I doubt an objective observer would agree with her of course, but things that are true in mens/womena minds is true in its consequences) And yes, I think you are correct that the fantasy of the other man was much more potent than the man himself, that's why when the fantasy was dissolved by reality, she came back to you.
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Post by writerguy on Sept 11, 2018 18:08:22 GMT
Thanks, all, for the kinds words and thoughts. I'm working on it through therapy (my therapist hit almost all her issues on the head with a hammer. Now, time to focus on MY ISSUES and why I put up with this.) I know I deserve more and better from a relationship and I've made excuses for her actions for far too long. I'm working on myself - both physically and mentally - and I can feel the improvement.
It's just the pain associated with the betrayal after 15 years will take time to heal. She cheated on me once before (right after we broke off our engagement because she was suddenly afraid of what that commitment meant.) She was sorry, I forgave her and we tried to work through it (we went to therapy twice - with a good therapist - and then she announced she didn't want to go back after I said it was helping me.) As I look at it, I think she seemed to think I would just either ignore this most recent ghosting/cheating or not bother talking about it. I think if I hadn't broken it off - finally - she would have happily continued on with me ad infinitum (I'm actually her only "intimate" outside of her mother and sister.) My therapist has warned me that I might hear from her again because I'm a touchstone in her life and I've told her I want NC until after the new year. He said the distance may make her actually miss me.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 11, 2018 18:24:27 GMT
My therapist has warned me that I might hear from her again because I'm a touchstone in her life and I've told her I want NC until after the new year. He said the distance may make her actually miss me. If she's FA, especially without much other support, that's almost definitely the case. That's why it's important to focus on yourself first and figure out what you want, and then you'll be in a better position to respond in a way that's healthy for you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 18:27:07 GMT
Thanks, all, for the kinds words and thoughts. I'm working on it through therapy (my therapist hit almost all her issues on the head with a hammer. Now, time to focus on MY ISSUES and why I put up with this.) I know I deserve more and better from a relationship and I've made excuses for her actions for far too long. I'm working on myself - both physically and mentally - and I can feel the improvement. It's just the pain associated with the betrayal after 15 years will take time to heal. She cheated on me once before (right after we broke off our engagement because she was suddenly afraid of what that commitment meant.) She was sorry, I forgave her and we tried to work through it (we went to therapy twice - with a good therapist - and then she announced she didn't want to go back after I said it was helping me.) As I look at it, I think she seemed to think I would just either ignore this most recent ghosting/cheating or not bother talking about it. I think if I hadn't broken it off - finally - she would have happily continued on with me ad infinitum (I'm actually her only "intimate" outside of her mother and sister.) My therapist has warned me that I might hear from her again because I'm a touchstone in her life and I've told her I want NC until after the new year. He said the distance may make her actually miss me. [b You have reached your rock bottom with this relationship and you are truly ready to start the healing process, and your life with truly start to get better with each passing day because you have exhausted all Other avenue's. It's not Always going to be easy but there is an exciting wonderful future out there just waiting for you. Sending you big hugs X
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Post by epicgum on Sept 11, 2018 18:30:29 GMT
Thanks, all, for the kinds words and thoughts. I'm working on it through therapy (my therapist hit almost all her issues on the head with a hammer. Now, time to focus on MY ISSUES and why I put up with this.) I know I deserve more and better from a relationship and I've made excuses for her actions for far too long. I'm working on myself - both physically and mentally - and I can feel the improvement. It's just the pain associated with the betrayal after 15 years will take time to heal. She cheated on me once before (right after we broke off our engagement because she was suddenly afraid of what that commitment meant.) She was sorry, I forgave her and we tried to work through it (we went to therapy twice - with a good therapist - and then she announced she didn't want to go back after I said it was helping me.) As I look at it, I think she seemed to think I would just either ignore this most recent ghosting/cheating or not bother talking about it. I think if I hadn't broken it off - finally - she would have happily continued on with me ad infinitum (I'm actually her only "intimate" outside of her mother and sister.) My therapist has warned me that I might hear from her again because I'm a touchstone in her life and I've told her I want NC until after the new year. He said the distance may make her actually miss me. I agree with your therapist that the distance is likely to make her miss you, but that doesn't guarantee solving your relationship problems. The thing with avoidance is that it is a defensive mechanism that tells the self "I don't need people, I am fine on my own," developed to protect the individual from rejection. The problem is...when push comes to shove the avoidance is a brittle shell that collapses on itself, because on a biological level humans actually do need companionship. She will miss you (or just miss the companionship from anybody), but she will also still have the avoidance, which will push her to distance again in the future.
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Post by writerguy on Sept 11, 2018 18:33:02 GMT
My therapist has warned me that I might hear from her again because I'm a touchstone in her life and I've told her I want NC until after the new year. He said the distance may make her actually miss me. If she's FA, especially without much other support, that's almost definitely the case. That's why it's important to focus on yourself first and figure out what you want, and then you'll be in a better position to respond in a way that's healthy for you. Thanks so much. That's been the pattern for the last 15 years is that she's eventually come back. Even during the time I was dating someone else she would start emails sweet things about missing and loving me. (and I, of course, didn't know what I was looking at and thought "oh, she's finally realized she wants this and we can move forward again together!") Been there, done that. Not looking to try again.
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Post by writerguy on Sept 11, 2018 18:37:54 GMT
Thanks, all, for the kinds words and thoughts. I'm working on it through therapy (my therapist hit almost all her issues on the head with a hammer. Now, time to focus on MY ISSUES and why I put up with this.) I know I deserve more and better from a relationship and I've made excuses for her actions for far too long. I'm working on myself - both physically and mentally - and I can feel the improvement. It's just the pain associated with the betrayal after 15 years will take time to heal. She cheated on me once before (right after we broke off our engagement because she was suddenly afraid of what that commitment meant.) She was sorry, I forgave her and we tried to work through it (we went to therapy twice - with a good therapist - and then she announced she didn't want to go back after I said it was helping me.) As I look at it, I think she seemed to think I would just either ignore this most recent ghosting/cheating or not bother talking about it. I think if I hadn't broken it off - finally - she would have happily continued on with me ad infinitum (I'm actually her only "intimate" outside of her mother and sister.) My therapist has warned me that I might hear from her again because I'm a touchstone in her life and I've told her I want NC until after the new year. He said the distance may make her actually miss me. I agree with your therapist that the distance is likely to make her miss you, but that doesn't guarantee solving your relationship problems. The thing with avoidance is that it is a defensive mechanism that tells the self "I don't need people, I am fine on my own," developed to protect the individual from rejection. The problem is...when push comes to shove the avoidance is a brittle shell that collapses on itself, because on a biological level humans actually do need companionship. She will miss you (or just miss the companionship from anybody), but she will also still have the avoidance, which will push her to distance again in the future. Thanks. The thing my therapist said that really got to me was this: "This is who she was before she met you, this is who she is now 15 years later. You have given her love, and time, and attention, and she is still here, fixated and lost in all the past pain and hurt which make her reflect on possible future pain and hurt. I know this is hard to hear, but the best gift you might give her is to break it off ENTIRELY. That shock may just be what she needs to finally focus on herself and get into therapy. That's a big maybe, but perhaps she would finally seek some healing." The problem, for her, is a resistance to therapy (and she's a therapist...who doesn't practice...because it's intimate, don't you know?)
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Post by alexandra on Sept 11, 2018 18:48:45 GMT
You have given her love, and time, and attention, and she is still here, fixated and lost in all the past pain and hurt which make her reflect on possible future pain and hurt. I know this is hard to hear, but the best gift you might give her is to break it off ENTIRELY. That shock may just be want she needs to finally focus on herself and get into therapy. That's a big maybe, but perhaps she would finally seek some healing." I struggle with this too. My ex FA has always asserted he wants to stay friends, and has always followed up on that. But now that I finally know what the situation is, am I actually stunting a healing opportunity for him if I stick around platonically? However, it's not a decision I can actually make taking him into consideration because how he responds is out of my control, so I have to choose what's best for me.
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Post by epicgum on Sept 11, 2018 18:51:49 GMT
I agree with your therapist that the distance is likely to make her miss you, but that doesn't guarantee solving your relationship problems. The thing with avoidance is that it is a defensive mechanism that tells the self "I don't need people, I am fine on my own," developed to protect the individual from rejection. The problem is...when push comes to shove the avoidance is a brittle shell that collapses on itself, because on a biological level humans actually do need companionship. She will miss you (or just miss the companionship from anybody), but she will also still have the avoidance, which will push her to distance again in the future. Thanks. The thing my therapist said that really got to me was this: "This is who she was before she met you, this is who she is now 15 years later. You have given her love, and time, and attention, and she is still here, fixated and lost in all the past pain and hurt which make her reflect on possible future pain and hurt. I know this is hard to hear, but the best gift you might give her is to break it off ENTIRELY. That shock may just be what she needs to finally focus on herself and get into therapy. That's a big maybe, but perhaps she would finally seek some healing." The problem, for her, is a resistance to therapy (and she's a therapist...who doesn't practice...because it's intimate, don't you know?) Ahh, that's funny. I have a lot in common with your girlfriend (sans the cheating) but at least I have the excuse of not having prior contact with mental healthcare!
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Post by writerguy on Sept 11, 2018 19:04:42 GMT
You have given her love, and time, and attention, and she is still here, fixated and lost in all the past pain and hurt which make her reflect on possible future pain and hurt. I know this is hard to hear, but the best gift you might give her is to break it off ENTIRELY. That shock may just be want she needs to finally focus on herself and get into therapy. That's a big maybe, but perhaps she would finally seek some healing." I struggle with this too. My ex FA has always asserted he wants to stay friends, and has always followed up on that. But now that I finally know what the situation is, am I actually stunting a healing opportunity for him if I stick around platonically? However, it's not a decision I can actually make taking him into consideration because how he responds is out of my control, so I have to choose what's best for me. I think this is the thing we ALL struggle with. We can love them, but they have such a difficult time loving us back. When I broke up with her, it was the first time this year that she looked me in the eye and told me she loved me. Seeing the bits and pieces of yearning and normal make it that much harder. But WE cannot change them no matter how much love, time, and caring we throw at them (that's true for any of us.) THEY have to want to change. I feel bad for her because she's 48 and if she hasn't changed - or even wanted to - with all the love and support I would give her, I don't see her changing now (when she moved out of my house 6 years ago, she moved back into the SAME APARTMENT she lived in when we met...with furniture in all the same places. Not prone to change.) And you are right - you have to choose what's best for YOU.
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