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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 18:21:03 GMT
i'm sorry kristyrose i don't mean to offend , or to invalidate your feelings. i was thinking of the dynamic from a broad view over time. i know it's been back and forth with a lot of pain for a long time. No need to be sorry at all. I appreciate your perspective and I actually don't offend easily ;-) I value everyones feedback and I do not have to agree with it, but I respect it for sure. I do think I have made him the villain in the past for sure, but I have learned so much over time and have let go of a lot in the process. What prompted his email response is my being activated while sick- I apologized in a direct way over email for my protesting behavior - I called out how selfish I was to try and have a conversation when he clearly could not do it and that I was not thinking of his feelings. I would often own and apologize for my behavior and he would always come back not forgiving me, but chastising me and telling me more about his needs. I feel I have done my best, despite my mistakes, apologies, therapy etc, I cannot help us both when he refuses to look at himself. Thats ok, its his choice, his journey. I will miss him terribly and that is precisely because I do see the good in him. i get it, i really do. it takes two people doing a lot of hard core introspection to make a dent in this stuff. i just want to see you feeling free.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 18:25:19 GMT
I have stonewalled when someone continues to argue in spite of me saying I was tired and I feel pummeled or unsafe . Other times I would just throw in the towel and basically say "Okay, whatever, you can be right, just leave me the hell alone." I know this sort of behaviour is not effective and when I find myself engaging in it, it is a clear sign I need to get out of this relationship/ The healthier alternative is to have a time out. This requires the withdrawing party to clearly state the need for some alone time and the expected time of return and requires that other party respects the boundary and does not go into further discussion or approach in the asserted alone time. If you are the AP party, I would advice you let your partner know it is okay to call a time out if he feels unsafe or overwhelmed, and make clear that you will not contact him during timeout, so he can rest and heal. Then when there is a time out, do your own thing and be patient. If you cannot stick to this, do not expect a DA to feel safe with you and consider ending the relationship as you cannot meet each other's needs. If you can stick with this over the course of months, your partner will likely feel safer with you. i relate to the first paragraph here so much it almost gave me a flashback, lol. just the worst feeling ever to get overwhelmed with no escape, it felt like falling into a black hole. can. not. do. it |
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Post by epicgum on Oct 23, 2018 21:09:36 GMT
i'm sorry kristyrose i don't mean to offend , or to invalidate your feelings. i was thinking of the dynamic from a broad view over time. i know it's been back and forth with a lot of pain for a long time. No need to be sorry at all. I appreciate your perspective and I actually don't offend easily ;-) I value everyones feedback and I do not have to agree with it, but I respect it for sure. I do think I have made him the villain in the past for sure, but I have learned so much over time and have let go of a lot in the process. What prompted his email response is my being activated while sick- I apologized in a direct way over email for my protesting behavior - I called out how selfish I was to try and have a conversation when he clearly could not do it and that I was not thinking of his feelings. I would often own and apologize for my behavior and he would always come back not forgiving me, but chastising me and telling me more about his needs. I feel I have done my best, despite my mistakes, apologies, therapy etc, I cannot help us both when he refuses to look at himself. Thats ok, its his choice, his journey. I will miss him terribly and that is precisely because I do see the good in him. I think under stress we all become less controlled and revert more strongly back to our original attachment style. |
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 23, 2018 21:18:33 GMT
No need to be sorry at all. I appreciate your perspective and I actually don't offend easily ;-) I value everyones feedback and I do not have to agree with it, but I respect it for sure. I do think I have made him the villain in the past for sure, but I have learned so much over time and have let go of a lot in the process. What prompted his email response is my being activated while sick- I apologized in a direct way over email for my protesting behavior - I called out how selfish I was to try and have a conversation when he clearly could not do it and that I was not thinking of his feelings. I would often own and apologize for my behavior and he would always come back not forgiving me, but chastising me and telling me more about his needs. I feel I have done my best, despite my mistakes, apologies, therapy etc, I cannot help us both when he refuses to look at himself. Thats ok, its his choice, his journey. I will miss him terribly and that is precisely because I do see the good in him. I think under stress we all become less controlled and revert more strongly back to our original attachment style. Yes, I agree with that Epicgum. I know i do! I am surprised that after he sent that just a few days later he wants to hang out. I mean, his whole email was about how great the space was and how it made him realize he wants to spend less time with me and have his freedom. I'm trying to just take his words at face value, but it can be hard when his actions almost always never match up. Why even make small talk for the past 3 days? For what? To make sure I'm still that little dog waiting at the door?! |
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 23, 2018 22:07:07 GMT
So I have some thoughts about Juniper's question and the black/white thinking. I am beginning to wonder if the villain stance is a protective one....not so much protecting against the other person...but protecting against the hope that resides so strongly in every AP. And I also wonder if the realization that a partner is not what our hope tells us she/he is is in fact a step towards secure for an AP. Perhaps it is the natural progressing from seeing your partner on a pedastal and blaming yourself for everything....to seeing the imperfections and blaming the other...the point is to keep growing....keep finding self and autonomy from other. Just a thought.
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Post by mrob on Oct 23, 2018 22:27:17 GMT
Kristy, he’s your ex. He’s been your ex for a fair while. It’s time to give up. He has told you exactly as it is for him, and the small talk follows on from that.
This now isn’t about his behaviour. It’s about yours. It’s about looking at the three fingers pointing back. He’s been upfront. It’s now up to you to fight or accept it. There are people I cannot be friends with, and I’ve tried. Contact sends me into a tailspin, and I’ve just had enough. I’m tired.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 23, 2018 22:29:37 GMT
I am surprised that after he sent that just a few days later he wants to hang out. I mean, his whole email was about how great the space was and how it made him realize he wants to spend less time with me and have his freedom. I'm trying to just take his words at face value, but it can be hard when his actions almost always never match up. Why even make small talk for the past 3 days? For what? To make sure I'm still that little dog waiting at the door?! I don't think he's doing it on purpose. I am starting to suspect that some FAs who haven't done any self work and don't have awareness yet can't emotionally regulate themselves well. So they are very reactionary to their moods and that's it... if they are deactivated (afraid of engulfment), they push and don't introspect, and if they are anxious (afraid of abandonment), they pull. When faced with an attachment figure and still not processing their own issues, they're in a constant state of trying to relieve their anxiety or their discomfort, and can feel "bored" if not being compelled in one of those two directions. Not bashing FAs at all. I don't think it's intentional, it seems to be a difficult and painful state of being. I'm sorry there's still a lot of instability. I otherwise have the same thing to say as always... own your mistakes and acknowledge them (apologize if you were in the wrong), move on from them after and don't ruminate but do try to reflect and work on them for your own sake, do what's best for yourself at the moment (which sounds like it's taking a break of indefinite length), and don't take his issues personally. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 23, 2018 22:35:08 GMT
also, i know that all the insecure attachment behaviors have deep roots in survival. i agree that the overtbehaviors have more potential to be punishing and violent, and are activated by the fight response of the nervous system which is by nature more aggressive. Hey, Juni Yes, I can fully confirm when I’m activated and without emotional self-control, I am completely in fight or flight mode. I fight for my safety and it makes me incredibly focused on me and soothing myself. I’m hypersensitive to my partner’s withdrawing, whether perceived or imaginary, and NEED to reconnect...and it’s an urgency like my life depends on it. In times past I felt like I had no control over the attempt to reach out and connect. Instead of self-soothing and self-regulation, my soothing comes from feeling like everything is ok between my partner and me. If he’s ok, then I’m ok and that makes me feel safe. If he’s not ok- I feel unsafe and panicked. I haven’t been activated like this for several months, but I still remember how strong the impulse was to chase and reconnect. I felt like my body was HIJACKED in those moments by my emotions. Part of the reason not contacting my ex now is tough bc we ended on a flat note- his response was short and cool. He’s not ok I'm thinking. That thought weighs heavily over me. I want to try to remedy that and already tried with one apogetic text, but I’m resisting the now lower urge to reach out again. I’m still tempted though every day. In the time and space since the break, I haven’t reacted in full blown fight or flight mode since becoming self-aware; although it’s still my default mode and I need to recognize that feeling of being hijacked by my fears and manage them appropriately. When I think how I overreacted in my relationship, I feel so ashamed. One conflict in particular, he shut down and wouldn’t talk, so I dialed his cell multiple times to address the situation. His refusal to answer only made me want to connect more and made him shut down further....and lose his trust. So embarrassed to admit. I don’t think he ever trusted me again after that conflict. It was the first time he said the words “break up” to me. Regarding the other post- as an AP, I don’t view a partner as a villain. I may feel he’s leaving or doesn’t care- but I never thought of him as a bad guy, not consciously anyway. I can now see why the person on the receiving end though of the AP protests may feel deeply criticized. In this case w my ex, he was extremely self-aware of his defenses and limitations- I had zero clue about my own insecurities. That was my downfall. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 23, 2018 22:40:54 GMT
I am right there with you. I no longer text or talk on the phone if I'm upset. I sit with it and ask him to come talk to me. I will only discuss it in person so that there are no misunderstandings and all is well and clear when we part. I've gotten in so much trouble over text, it should be outlawed in relationships, lol I don't think I'll ever be "secure" but I'm learning to stop, breath, talk to him and listen before I go haywire. It's hard but actually getting easier. And, he has no problem coming and talking because he is secure in the fact that I'm not going to go haywire on him. He knows my mind goes places and that I'm working hard on it and so he gives me that. And, I do the same for him. Again, it has to go both ways. It can be done tho. Have a good talk tomorrow. Own what you did. Accept his apologies and put the breakup in the past. Don't bring it up again. You have absolutely no guarantee of a future, no one can predict. But, you definitely won't have one if your living in the past. Stay present. Thanks 😊 I can understand text problems. I usually can control what I say and drop it and leave, I know I have to practice more and I'll definetely do that. But when really drunk of course I'm a mess, so I won't risk it again. I can understand how upset he was as I was being my worst possible self, and how betrayed he might feel, as for him this came out of nowhere. Thank you, yes, I've been thinking a lot about it and if I can honestly forget about the past. I honestly never thought about it much these days, but if I'm being honest at first I was wary. I made the mistake of not discussing it more extensively with him before, as I thought I just needed time with him for this to stop making me insecure, as we've been rocky half of the relationship. I even thought I could even laugh about it in the future ('hey remember that, we were so stupid'). I know I was very hurt and confused and I don't plan on downplaying my feelings (as much as I'm not downplaying his) but I can move on after talking about it last week. I tend not to hold things. I hope he, with time, can forgive me and trust me too. Anyway, about resolving conflicts, we'll talk about that too, as these main thing I should do is break the cicle that happened this time. YES!!! Stupid impulse texting problems. It was the major way I lost emotional control. It’s probably what broke my partner’s trust in me. 😞 |
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 23, 2018 22:46:11 GMT
I am surprised that after he sent that just a few days later he wants to hang out. I mean, his whole email was about how great the space was and how it made him realize he wants to spend less time with me and have his freedom. I'm trying to just take his words at face value, but it can be hard when his actions almost always never match up. Why even make small talk for the past 3 days? For what? To make sure I'm still that little dog waiting at the door?! I don't think he's doing it on purpose. I am starting to suspect that some FAs who haven't done any self work and don't have awareness yet can't emotionally regulate themselves well. So they are very reactionary to their moods and that's it... if they are deactivated (afraid of engulfment), they push and don't introspect, and if they are anxious (afraid of abandonment), they pull. When faced with an attachment figure and still not processing their own issues, they're in a constant state of trying to relieve their anxiety or their discomfort, and can feel "bored" if not being compelled in one of those two directions. Not bashing FAs at all. I don't think it's intentional, it seems to be a difficult and painful state of being. I'm sorry there's still a lot of instability. I otherwise have the same thing to say as always... own your mistakes and acknowledge them (apologize if you were in the wrong), move on from them after and don't ruminate but do try to reflect and work on them for your own sake, do what's best for yourself at the moment (which sounds like it's taking a break of indefinite length), and don't take his issues personally. Thank you for this. I'm just in a shit mood today about it all. Very angry and hurt and I have no place to put it. I know you are right, he is now in a bit of an anxious state because I'm not reaching out, just responding to his texts. i feel stuck because he can't hear me anyway and i feel sad that it's over. i'm trying to just be polite to his texts, no ignoring or protest behavior, just trying to keep sane for now until I feel comfortable enough to send a goodbye email. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 23, 2018 23:00:50 GMT
Hey everyone, So, been starting to feel better and had a really nice day with some friends yesterday. Of course because I'm feeling stronger and happier, my ex sends me a text at midnight last night asking if I want to go to brunch this morning. I said no, and then he proceeded to ask me if I want to at least meet him at the park by his house even for a minute or if he can come here on his way to a friends house. I said no on both. Now he is texting asking how I am healing from my accident and I'm ignoring him. I don't feel too triggered by this BS today, I'm trying to hold onto the good feelings I've been cultivating this weekend. Coming on here keeps me tied to the work I continue to do on myself... I’m obviously not as far along in your acceptance and admittedly don’t know your back story here, but I’d love it if my ex reached out with any text- suggesting to meet in public is something he hasn’t done in a year. I’d be over the moon...I probably shouldn’t feel that way, but I still hear his text chime in my dreams. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 23:09:30 GMT
I think under stress we all become less controlled and revert more strongly back to our original attachment style. Yes, I agree with that Epicgum. I know i do! I am surprised that after he sent that just a few days later he wants to hang out. I mean, his whole email was about how great the space was and how it made him realize he wants to spend less time with me and have his freedom. I'm trying to just take his words at face value, but it can be hard when his actions almost always never match up. Why even make small talk for the past 3 days? For what? To make sure I'm still that little dog waiting at the door?! , I totally agree with that statement. kristyrose, my belief is that the AP fears abandonment the most and the Avoidant fears abandoning the other person the most. It's the puzzle pieces that fit but don't quite fit. I know that my ex and I cannot fill each others needs and I try to be the strong one for both of us, but I can't ignore the knock on the door. I struggle to keep the door shut when he knocks, but eventually I give in. Just a thought. |
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 23, 2018 23:24:04 GMT
Yes, I agree with that Epicgum. I know i do! I am surprised that after he sent that just a few days later he wants to hang out. I mean, his whole email was about how great the space was and how it made him realize he wants to spend less time with me and have his freedom. I'm trying to just take his words at face value, but it can be hard when his actions almost always never match up. Why even make small talk for the past 3 days? For what? To make sure I'm still that little dog waiting at the door?! , I totally agree with that statement. kristyrose , my belief is that the AP fears abandonment the most and the Avoidant fears abandoning the other person the most. It's the puzzle pieces that fit but don't quite fit. I know that my ex and I cannot fill each others needs and I try to be the strong one for both of us, but I can't ignore the knock on the door. I struggle to keep the door shut when he knocks, but eventually I give in. Just a thought. Hi Mary, Yes, I agree with that as well. Right now he keeps knocking, he just asked me to dinner and my stomach is hurting and my heart is pounding. I've tried to just work through my own feelings and I just can't take this consistent contact from him right now, at the same time, it's becoming increasingly hard to ignore it and he is going away for a week for work overseas, so now I feel like I should see him to say goodbye. it sucks. |
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 23, 2018 23:25:33 GMT
Kristy, he’s your ex. He’s been your ex for a fair while. It’s time to give up. He has told you exactly as it is for him, and the small talk follows on from that. This now isn’t about his behaviour. It’s about yours. It’s about looking at the three fingers pointing back. He’s been upfront. It’s now up to you to fight or accept it. There are people I cannot be friends with, and I’ve tried. Contact sends me into a tailspin, and I’ve just had enough. I’m tired. Yes, the contact is putting me through the ringer. when things were quiet I was moving towards acceptance, now he is texting about dinner and I just feel kinda sick about it. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 23, 2018 23:36:01 GMT
Yes, the contact is putting me through the ringer. when things were quiet I was moving towards acceptance, now he is texting about dinner and I just feel kinda sick about it. Is there anything you can do to focus on where your anxiety is actually coming from? I know it seems like it's from him, and I don't doubt that the dynamic is currently toxic for you both. However, maybe you can use the opportunity to hone in on what exactly your AP side is being activated by. |
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