|
Post by toorational on Jul 15, 2019 21:02:29 GMT
I kinda need to write here to vent a bit and perhaps get a bit of support. I've not been sleeping well and a bit depressed lately, partly because of a knee injury 10 days ago that left me limping ever since (no physical activity = slightly depressed). I guess I'm more vulnerable than usual and more sensitive to my girlfriend's distance. So this weekend we each had our kids but managed to have diner together with friends on Saturday night. My bids for affection were largely ignored. They are small details but us AP have a special radar for tiny signs of distance. For example, I caressed her leg at the diner table a few times but she never reciprocated, acting totally cold to the gesture. In her better moods she would either reciprocate, give me a kiss or hold my hand. Getting the cold treatment is hard to take. But I said nothing. I slept at her place that night but it was pretty clear from her behavior that she was a bit distant so no sex (it was gonna be our only night together in a span of 5 days or so). Sunday night we spoke on the phone about our day like usual but she was more distant than ever. She was acting quite cold but probably unaware of it. She didn't laugh at my silly jokes like she usually does, showed seemingly no interest when I proposed visiting Monday night, and was not too interested in hearing about my day. All in all I felt that this nightly call was a burden for her. She somehow felt how I felt because this morning she asked me if everything was alright. That's where I made a mistake... I did tell her that I felt she was cold last night but of course she kinda denied it and felt attacked. I gave the one example about the joke but I didn't feel like over-analyzing our conversation and pointing out each instance she felt cold to me. I also voiced my need for some "quality couple time" because it has been a while. I mean we did spend some time together lately (which she pointed out) but it was not what I would define as "couple time". You know, stuff that people do on dates to connect such as deep conversations, romantic diner, going on walks together, intimate time, massage, etc. What we did do together was platonic and could have been done as friends. I guess that's where our needs differ. I feel sometimes that all she's looking for is a life partner with whom to do activities together (which is her biggest complaint about her ex, who never joined her in activities). But she doesn't seem to long for romantic time together. I do. I crave it. I have a burning desire for her and would love to give each other massages and have sex for hours. Have deep conversations. You know, connect romantically. But I get crumbs. Delicious crumbs but still crumbs. So I probably triggered her this morning by voicing my needs and now she's distancing herself. She sent no text today and didn't call me on her way back home like she often does. I'm triggered too of course and perhaps she just had a very busy day and I'm simply over-analyzing (likely). I think at this point the only way to make this relationship work is for me (or even better, us) to go to therapy. I started looking for psychologists in my area that are experts on attachment theory but I couldn't find anyone local yet. I'll keep looking. Unfortunately I fear that she is not willing to join me in this counselling. She often said that she wants a "simple" relationship. If I read between the lines, it means she doesn't want to have to "work" to make a relationship work. It should just flow naturally. If it doesn't it simply means we're not a good match. I feel like the only thing that would be acceptable to her is to be absolutely fine with her wildly varying level of affection, with no complaints whatsoever. It's like a lose-lose scenario to me. If I keep everything inside and try to deal with it by myself, I get anxiety and I'm not happy in the relationship. If I voice my needs, then I turn her off big time and I chip away at the attraction she has for me. I fear I'm gonna lose her
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 21:26:34 GMT
The truth of compatibility is somewhere in between the perspective you have of her expectation vs. your expectation. I don't think it's quite accurate to assume that she doesn't think effort is necessary. And, you may want to put in more effort than is reasonable (not the best word but it will do) to try to correct what may be fundamental incompatibility.
It's true, so true that what constitutes a rewarding and healthy relationship to a DA is different from what constitutes a rewarding and healthy relationship to an AP. I happen to have a high sex drive, I'm a DA woman, those things go together for me. But also, the kind of companionship and shared time that you're describing as your GF's favorite way to bond is in fact, the preferred mode of interaction for a lot of DA'seven when they get healthier, more secure. Its hard to describe, but it's tremendously comforting for me to share an activity that doesn't involve romance, with a partner. It's deeply warm and satisfying to me: and feels more intimate in some ways than the couple stuff you describe. It feels unconditional, wholesome, friendly. This is what I have missed my entire life, being dismissively attached. Solitude (when at its best ) and isolation (at its worst) has formed a soul deep loneliness that true companionship heals.
On the other hand, deep prolonged intimacy is not my natural connection state, and triggers vulnerability that is so profound that it does trigger my attachment system into deactivation. It's not sustainable for me, nor desirable. I have to have good balance in order to be able to progress, and I am aware. It sounds like your GF is without awareness at all of all this.
Furthermore, you may be an unhealed and overly emotionally dependent AP partner. (hypersensitive as you are to cues which turns into negative statements about her: "You're Cold." No woman wants to be called cold as there is a connotation of FRIGID. Why not ask if there is something bothering her, if she is stressed, etc? She probably does feel constantly judged and criticized and attacked) Your communication and relating habits may feel overwhelmingly negative and as if she is damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't. If she responds positively, will it be disappointing to you if it doesn't turn into a marathon of sex and massage? If she doesn't respond, is she cold? What about what is going on with her? She may not feel comfortable saying and she may not even know. Who knows. But her confidant thinks she is cold.
Anyway, AP and DA are very different animals who thrive in different environments. Some couples can make it, some can't, depends on the individuals. I myself can't imagine finding a middle ground with AP but that's just me.
Sorry you're struggling, but in truth it's a very common struggle between these two types.
|
|
|
Post by toorational on Jul 15, 2019 21:57:00 GMT
Thanks sherry for speaking the truth. Yes she probably feels stressed and over-analyzed. If I try to put myself in her shoes for a bit, she's probably always fearing the time when she won't act affectionate enough and trigger me Not sure that I have a solution for that but I like the concept of the "love tank". As long as I get regular affection that fill my love tank, I can tolerate distancing behavior for a while. But when my tank is low from lack of romantic time together, then I'm more fragile and more susceptible to get triggered and go into "protest behavior". I think that my protest behavior is pretty mild compared to other stuff I read but it is protest nonetheless, basically protest in the form of complaints on how I get treated. No one likes to be blamed. It's unfortunate that this is such a common pattern amongst couples, yet seems like it's a relatively unknown theory (with hard to find therapists). Looking back, I should have simply said that I'm a bit depressed lately and that I need a bit more love and affection. I'm sure that she would have been receptive to this request. Rather, I got triggered when she didn't read my mind and just acted a bit more distant than usual, perhaps for good reason (maybe she was stressed herself). Hindsight is 20/20 but now I'm just in a mess that I don't really know how to fix
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 22:13:24 GMT
Thanks sherry for speaking the truth. Yes she probably feels stressed and over-analyzed. If I try to put myself in her shoes for a bit, she's probably always fearing the time when she won't act affectionate enough and trigger me Not sure that I have a solution for that but I like the concept of the "love tank". As long as I get regular affection that fill my love tank, I can tolerate distancing behavior for a while. But when my tank is low from lack of romantic time together, then I'm more fragile and more susceptible to get triggered and go into "protest behavior". I think that my protest behavior is pretty mild compared to other stuff I read but it is protest nonetheless, basically protest in the form of complaints on how I get treated. No one likes to be blamed. It's unfortunate that this is such a common pattern amongst couples, yet seems like it's a relatively unknown theory (with hard to find therapists). Looking back, I should have simply said that I'm a bit depressed lately and that I need a bit more love and affection. I'm sure that she would have been receptive to this request. Rather, I got triggered when she didn't read my mind and just acted a bit more distant than usual, perhaps for good reason (maybe she was stressed herself). Hindsight is 20/20 but now I'm just in a mess that I don't really know how to fix I understand the need for consistent affection. It means a lot to me also. In my opinion my bf gives me the best hugs I have ever had in my life besides from my children, and I have come to asking for them and letting him know that it really does me a lot of good. We are both avoidant and he loves the hugs also, but I am the one who makes sure we are getting that in. Haha! It's not as instinctive to him. It's really important for me, at this stage of my life. This was not a big deal to me before I was aware and in touch. I was more like your GF. I think being honest about your mistakes can be very helpful. That's actually been more bonding than other things it seems like, between my bf and I. We have grown a lot closer through resolving problems than from trying to check boxes about what we "need". We are careful not to label each other about things and instead keep it to what we feel. Make sense? So in an argument (rare) he tends to be the more "angry" and aggressive voice. I wouldn't tell him he's being mean- I would tell him I feel hurt by his tone of voice because we have established trust and respect and angry communication undermines that which makes me feel very sad. He's able to adjust himself to maintain the trust and respect when he hears it from me that way. If I just label him, those things trigger things about himself that he already feels guilt or stress about, things he is actively working on. Our conflicts result in more closeness so I can only share what I have found works for us. But labeling is a huge no-no. When he has labeled me or my behavior in the past it's hit to the core of my own triggers and history. So we avoid doing that and try to keep it about intimacy and restoring goodwill.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 22:23:09 GMT
Oh and I also wanted to add, as a DA, I am very aware when AP around me are in insecure mode, and It's predictable , what will happen even if I try to stave it off. For example, I have an AP friend that when he is triggered in his life, no matter how warmly I engage with him, when we part he will be apologetic about how needy or OTT he was, and he hopes I'm not upset. Sometimes I would rather not go through all of it, and would especially would not like to be the target of his anxiety. So, yes if you are feeling insecure she probably can sense it with a feeling of dread or walking on eggshells, or shutting down. AP and DA trigger each other that way, especially if neither have skills with asking directly for what they want and need.
I understand my friend and just assure him that we are all good. I even make sure he knows I look forward to seeing him again. But if it was in a close relationship with sex and deep things involved I would be unable to maintain it. Too intense.
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jul 16, 2019 1:05:23 GMT
I am also AP and there are times I think my love tank has a hole in it....meaning, I can receive a fair amount of attention and it still does not feel enough. I am starting to explore this more...just how much love,attention, affection is enough? Do I look at my relationships with an abundance perspective (meaning, whatever distance occurs, there will be other times of affection) or do I look at them from a lack perspective (meaning, I am unsure whether I will get more..and thus try to hoard the current moment and then question whether I will get more). I know that my attachment system is wired to pay attention to small changes, but I have an opportunity to define whether the warning bells truly mean something is wrong or whether I am just in a warning bell space and need to calm my system by doing body exercises...there are some great resting positions to calm the nervous system when it is in hyper mode. I also like to “pause” before reacting or responding to see whether there are any other explanations for something other than the first one that pops in my head (that will always be fear driven). I do wish you the best.
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Jul 16, 2019 1:36:01 GMT
I kinda need to write here to vent a bit and perhaps get a bit of support. I've not been sleeping well and a bit depressed lately, partly because of a knee injury 10 days ago that left me limping ever since (no physical activity = slightly depressed). I guess I'm more vulnerable than usual and more sensitive to my girlfriend's distance. So this weekend we each had our kids but managed to have diner together with friends on Saturday night. My bids for affection were largely ignored. They are small details but us AP have a special radar for tiny signs of distance. For example, I caressed her leg at the diner table a few times but she never reciprocated, acting totally cold to the gesture. In her better moods she would either reciprocate, give me a kiss or hold my hand. Getting the cold treatment is hard to take. But I said nothing. I slept at her place that night but it was pretty clear from her behavior that she was a bit distant so no sex (it was gonna be our only night together in a span of 5 days or so). Sunday night we spoke on the phone about our day like usual but she was more distant than ever. She was acting quite cold but probably unaware of it. She didn't laugh at my silly jokes like she usually does, showed seemingly no interest when I proposed visiting Monday night, and was not too interested in hearing about my day. All in all I felt that this nightly call was a burden for her. She somehow felt how I felt because this morning she asked me if everything was alright. That's where I made a mistake... I did tell her that I felt she was cold last night but of course she kinda denied it and felt attacked. I gave the one example about the joke but I didn't feel like over-analyzing our conversation and pointing out each instance she felt cold to me. I also voiced my need for some "quality couple time" because it has been a while. I mean we did spend some time together lately (which she pointed out) but it was not what I would define as "couple time". You know, stuff that people do on dates to connect such as deep conversations, romantic diner, going on walks together, intimate time, massage, etc. What we did do together was platonic and could have been done as friends. I guess that's where our needs differ. I feel sometimes that all she's looking for is a life partner with whom to do activities together (which is her biggest complaint about her ex, who never joined her in activities). But she doesn't seem to long for romantic time together. I do. I crave it. I have a burning desire for her and would love to give each other massages and have sex for hours. Have deep conversations. You know, connect romantically. But I get crumbs. Delicious crumbs but still crumbs. So I probably triggered her this morning by voicing my needs and now she's distancing herself. She sent no text today and didn't call me on her way back home like she often does. I'm triggered too of course and perhaps she just had a very busy day and I'm simply over-analyzing (likely). I think at this point the only way to make this relationship work is for me (or even better, us) to go to therapy. I started looking for psychologists in my area that are experts on attachment theory but I couldn't find anyone local yet. I'll keep looking. Unfortunately I fear that she is not willing to join me in this counselling. She often said that she wants a "simple" relationship. If I read between the lines, it means she doesn't want to have to "work" to make a relationship work. It should just flow naturally. If it doesn't it simply means we're not a good match. I feel like the only thing that would be acceptable to her is to be absolutely fine with her wildly varying level of affection, with no complaints whatsoever. It's like a lose-lose scenario to me. If I keep everything inside and try to deal with it by myself, I get anxiety and I'm not happy in the relationship. If I voice my needs, then I turn her off big time and I chip away at the attraction she has for me. I fear I'm gonna lose her toorational - Sadly, you describe the commonly played out dynamic in the AP/avoidant relationship. The reason why so many of us found these boards. My FA ex broke up with me and since our break up over a year ago acts strongly DA. We’re in a casual relationship where he wants to keep things “simple,” like your partner told you. He needs to be “light” right now. At our break our relationship began to “feel like work.” Work being conversations and mild conflicts- interactions that weren’t always perfect. It’s like avoidants have the same script regarding “simple.” Well, intimate relationships between two people over a prolonged time are anything but simple and also require work like anything else worthwhile. I’ve worked hard on my AP to move toward secure, but simple to him means no in-depth conversations, no phone calls. No talk of us. No emotional intimacy. When we spend time together and are physically intimate he pulls way back in the following days. The intimacy throws him into a tailspin. It feels like protection to him but it’s actually self-sabotage. For example, extreme even for him- He’s ghosted me the past 10 days. The day after we saw each other he started ghosting. He Ignored 6 texts I sent over the course of 4 days. I’m sure he’s irritated bc I mentioned my feelings in the last text. I texted that it’s hurtful when he shuts down w no explanation. Esp after being as close as two people can be. I told him if he needed space or something else he could tell me and I’ll do my best to be supportive. I then told him to reach out when he’s ready. No response. I said all this about my experience to tell you- Don’t be hard on yourself!! The insecure triggers are a minefield. The texts he ignored over the course of 4 days were not accusatory. One was just “Are you okay?” We can twist and shape ourselves into pretzels to fit what the avoidant may find comfortable and tolerable, but they have limited capacity for closeness and if they hit that emotional wall with you- they will stop there and go no further. An unaware avoidant will continue to be triggered by intimacy and the other partner will be triggered anxious by the distancing. I’ve done this dance a couple years now with this guy. Fortunately for me, I’ve grown less attached and more secure as I’ve worked on me so his ghosting isn’t having the impact it once would have- my anxiety is low and I recognize his issues are his own. My issues are my own. I’m fostering security with or without him! So, take her distancing behaviors with a grain of salt. The ruminating and thinking what you “could have said” a little more gently likely wouldn’t have made a difference. It hasn’t in my experience. Finding a common ground for both partners would be ideal and could be very healing for both if the partners are willing to participate. Otherwise, the cycle of unhappiness and disappointment of both partners is likely to play out again and again. If she would go, therapy would be a good idea.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 1:38:42 GMT
The truth of compatibility is somewhere in between the perspective you have of her expectation vs. your expectation. I don't think it's quite accurate to assume that she doesn't think effort is necessary. And, you may want to put in more effort than is reasonable (not the best word but it will do) to try to correct what may be fundamental incompatibility. It's true, so true that what constitutes a rewarding and healthy relationship to a DA is different from what constitutes a rewarding and healthy relationship to an AP. I happen to have a high sex drive, I'm a DA woman, those things go together for me. But also, the kind of companionship and shared time that you're describing as your GF's favorite way to bond is in fact, the preferred mode of interaction for a lot of DA'seven when they get healthier, more secure. Its hard to describe, but it's tremendously comforting for me to share an activity that doesn't involve romance, with a partner. It's deeply warm and satisfying to me: and feels more intimate in some ways than the couple stuff you describe. It feels unconditional, wholesome, friendly. This is what I have missed my entire life, being dismissively attached. Solitude (when at its best ) and isolation (at its worst) has formed a soul deep loneliness that true companionship heals. On the other hand, deep prolonged intimacy is not my natural connection state, and triggers vulnerability that is so profound that it does trigger my attachment system into deactivation. It's not sustainable for me, nor desirable. I have to have good balance in order to be able to progress, and I am aware. It sounds like your GF is without awareness at all of all this. Furthermore, you may be an unhealed and overly emotionally dependent AP partner. (hypersensitive as you are to cues which turns into negative statements about her: "You're Cold." No woman wants to be called cold as there is a connotation of FRIGID. Why not ask if there is something bothering her, if she is stressed, etc? She probably does feel constantly judged and criticized and attacked) Your communication and relating habits may feel overwhelmingly negative and as if she is damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't. If she responds positively, will it be disappointing to you if it doesn't turn into a marathon of sex and massage? If she doesn't respond, is she cold? What about what is going on with her? She may not feel comfortable saying and she may not even know. Who knows. But her confidant thinks she is cold. Anyway, AP and DA are very different animals who thrive in different environments. Some couples can make it, some can't, depends on the individuals. I myself can't imagine finding a middle ground with AP but that's just me. Sorry you're struggling, but in truth it's a very common struggle between these two types. Thanks @sherry I think this is really insightful and something that should be highlighted here. I think a good balance in any relationship is having both deep prolonged intimacy and having wholesome activities that doesn't involve romance. It's also important to just build a friendship that recognizes each other as individuals for themselves, in addition to romance building which is seeing each other as partners. APs seem to only want the latter, which probably makes their partner feel "used" only as a partner to fulfill a particular role, rather than appreciated for just being themselves without having to also be a partner. I certainly recognise this in some of my other relationships.
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Jul 16, 2019 1:45:37 GMT
The truth of compatibility is somewhere in between the perspective you have of her expectation vs. your expectation. I don't think it's quite accurate to assume that she doesn't think effort is necessary. And, you may want to put in more effort than is reasonable (not the best word but it will do) to try to correct what may be fundamental incompatibility. It's true, so true that what constitutes a rewarding and healthy relationship to a DA is different from what constitutes a rewarding and healthy relationship to an AP. I happen to have a high sex drive, I'm a DA woman, those things go together for me. But also, the kind of companionship and shared time that you're describing as your GF's favorite way to bond is in fact, the preferred mode of interaction for a lot of DA'seven when they get healthier, more secure. Its hard to describe, but it's tremendously comforting for me to share an activity that doesn't involve romance, with a partner. It's deeply warm and satisfying to me: and feels more intimate in some ways than the couple stuff you describe. It feels unconditional, wholesome, friendly. This is what I have missed my entire life, being dismissively attached. Solitude (when at its best ) and isolation (at its worst) has formed a soul deep loneliness that true companionship heals. On the other hand, deep prolonged intimacy is not my natural connection state, and triggers vulnerability that is so profound that it does trigger my attachment system into deactivation. It's not sustainable for me, nor desirable. I have to have good balance in order to be able to progress, and I am aware. It sounds like your GF is without awareness at all of all this. Furthermore, you may be an unhealed and overly emotionally dependent AP partner. (hypersensitive as you are to cues which turns into negative statements about her: "You're Cold." No woman wants to be called cold as there is a connotation of FRIGID. Why not ask if there is something bothering her, if she is stressed, etc? She probably does feel constantly judged and criticized and attacked) Your communication and relating habits may feel overwhelmingly negative and as if she is damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't. If she responds positively, will it be disappointing to you if it doesn't turn into a marathon of sex and massage? If she doesn't respond, is she cold? What about what is going on with her? She may not feel comfortable saying and she may not even know. Who knows. But her confidant thinks she is cold. Anyway, AP and DA are very different animals who thrive in different environments. Some couples can make it, some can't, depends on the individuals. I myself can't imagine finding a middle ground with AP but that's just me. Sorry you're struggling, but in truth it's a very common struggle between these two types. Thanks @sherry I think this is really insightful and something that should be highlighted here. I think a good balance in any relationship is having both deep prolonged intimacy and having wholesome activities that doesn't involve romance. It's also important to just build a friendship that recognizes each other as individuals for themselves, in addition to romance building which is seeing each other as partners. APs seem to only want the latter, which probably makes their partner feel "used" only as a partner to fulfill a particular role, rather than appreciated for just being themselves without having to also be a partner. I certainly recognise this in some of my other relationships. @shiningstar - I saw the opposite with my avoidant ex- I (AP) wanted to build more of a friendship and do everyday things together like a run to Target etc and that was overwhelming to him. A trip to Shop Rite together he described as “a big step for him.” Drives to the shore a “sacrifice.” He was much more comfortable with the romantic side. Sex. Dinner. Flowers. And only the romantic side. Being married 24 years I thought nothing of running errands together or being together as just friends...I realize as we grow older that foundation of friendship is much more important.
|
|
|
Post by toorational on Jul 16, 2019 1:48:07 GMT
Thanks sherry, it's so helpful to get the point of view of another DA. I'm not sure if my GF is aware that she's DA or not. I discussed it with her in the past and I think that she agrees that she shares some of the DA characteristics. However, I don't believe that she thinks that there's any drawbacks to her attachment style or any need to improve anything on her side. It's funny how you talk about an AP friend who apologizes all the time. My friend (and cousin) is the same. He's AP like me but farther on the spectrum. I can see myself in him sometimes and totally understand how someone might be turned off by his behavior. On the other hand, he's such a loving partner for his girlfriend. He often plans grandiose surprises for her, took lots of time off work to be by her bedside during her chemotherapy and is just generally a very great guy to be around. Thanks tnr9 as well. Do you have any body exercise in particular to recommend? I went swimming tonight and this was the first physical activity I have done in 10 days and it helped my mood tremendously. So I sent my GF an apology text a few hours ago before I read sherry's answer but it goes along her suggestion to be honest with my mistakes. Here's a translation: "I'm sorry for my relapse this morning. I have no excuses except that I was tired and a bit depressed, so more vulnerable than usual. I made criticisms that were unwarranted that I truly regret I should have just told you that I needed a bit more affection than usual because I was a bit down, but I chose instead to hope that you would read my mind. I wish I could press the rewind button..." Her answer was: "No stress my love. We will hug each other on Wednesday Xxxx" So her answer made me feel better but I don't know how much damage I did with me acting out this morning. I will try to keep my anxiety in check and hope for the better, assume that it paid to admit my mistake and that the damage is minimal.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 1:48:15 GMT
I kinda need to write here to vent a bit and perhaps get a bit of support. I've not been sleeping well and a bit depressed lately, partly because of a knee injury 10 days ago that left me limping ever since (no physical activity = slightly depressed). I guess I'm more vulnerable than usual and more sensitive to my girlfriend's distance. So this weekend we each had our kids but managed to have diner together with friends on Saturday night. My bids for affection were largely ignored. They are small details but us AP have a special radar for tiny signs of distance. For example, I caressed her leg at the diner table a few times but she never reciprocated, acting totally cold to the gesture. In her better moods she would either reciprocate, give me a kiss or hold my hand. Getting the cold treatment is hard to take. But I said nothing. I slept at her place that night but it was pretty clear from her behavior that she was a bit distant so no sex (it was gonna be our only night together in a span of 5 days or so). Sunday night we spoke on the phone about our day like usual but she was more distant than ever. She was acting quite cold but probably unaware of it. She didn't laugh at my silly jokes like she usually does, showed seemingly no interest when I proposed visiting Monday night, and was not too interested in hearing about my day. All in all I felt that this nightly call was a burden for her. She somehow felt how I felt because this morning she asked me if everything was alright. That's where I made a mistake... I did tell her that I felt she was cold last night but of course she kinda denied it and felt attacked. I gave the one example about the joke but I didn't feel like over-analyzing our conversation and pointing out each instance she felt cold to me. I also voiced my need for some "quality couple time" because it has been a while. I mean we did spend some time together lately (which she pointed out) but it was not what I would define as "couple time". You know, stuff that people do on dates to connect such as deep conversations, romantic diner, going on walks together, intimate time, massage, etc. What we did do together was platonic and could have been done as friends. I guess that's where our needs differ. I feel sometimes that all she's looking for is a life partner with whom to do activities together (which is her biggest complaint about her ex, who never joined her in activities). But she doesn't seem to long for romantic time together. I do. I crave it. I have a burning desire for her and would love to give each other massages and have sex for hours. Have deep conversations. You know, connect romantically. But I get crumbs. Delicious crumbs but still crumbs.
So I probably triggered her this morning by voicing my needs and now she's distancing herself. She sent no text today and didn't call me on her way back home like she often does. I'm triggered too of course and perhaps she just had a very busy day and I'm simply over-analyzing (likely). I think at this point the only way to make this relationship work is for me (or even better, us) to go to therapy. I started looking for psychologists in my area that are experts on attachment theory but I couldn't find anyone local yet. I'll keep looking. Unfortunately I fear that she is not willing to join me in this counselling. She often said that she wants a "simple" relationship. If I read between the lines, it means she doesn't want to have to "work" to make a relationship work. It should just flow naturally. If it doesn't it simply means we're not a good match. I feel like the only thing that would be acceptable to her is to be absolutely fine with her wildly varying level of affection, with no complaints whatsoever. It's like a lose-lose scenario to me. If I keep everything inside and try to deal with it by myself, I get anxiety and I'm not happy in the relationship. If I voice my needs, then I turn her off big time and I chip away at the attraction she has for me. I fear I'm gonna lose her I hear you, I know what you mean. Needs are needs - I have those needs too. My ex usually didn't want any of those things unless it suited him and then it'll come full force without warning, which is often traumatic for me because I suddenly have to be a sexual and affectionate being in order not to reject him. I could not say that it was traumatic for me, because he would get pouty as he thinks he's fulfilling my needs and when he does it i'm unhappy about it. It was really about the instability of the on-off emotions/romance that throws me off, not that he's fulfilling my needs, but that message just gets lost in translation because everyone was unaware of their own behavior and triggers. this is a dynamic of unaware/unhealing AP-DAs i think. I would say that you should have a think about what your needs are and what you want in an ideal relationship. Is it necessary to have deep prolonged intimacy all the time? If not, how much of the time, and is there a middle ground? i think we had this conversation somewhere else, but it was about needs and stability and consistency, and in what elements of the relationship needs consistency for it to work for both parties.
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Jul 16, 2019 1:53:23 GMT
Thanks sherry, it's so helpful to get the point of view of another DA. I'm not sure if my GF is aware that she's DA or not. I discussed it with her in the past and I think that she agrees that she shares some of the DA characteristics. However, I don't believe that she thinks that there's any drawbacks to her attachment style or any need to improve anything on her side. It's funny how you talk about an AP friend who apologizes all the time. My friend (and cousin) is the same. He's AP like me but farther on the spectrum. I can see myself in him sometimes and totally understand how someone might be turned off by his behavior. On the other hand, he's such a loving partner for his girlfriend. He often plans grandiose surprises for her, took lots of time off work to be by her bedside during her chemotherapy and is just generally a very great guy to be around. Thanks tnr9 as well. Do you have any body exercise in particular to recommend? I went swimming tonight and this was the first physical activity I have done in 10 days and it helped my mood tremendously. So I sent my GF an apology text a few hours ago before I read sherry's answer but it goes along her suggestion to be honest with my mistakes. Here's a translation: "I'm sorry for my relapse this morning. I have no excuses except that I was tired and a bit depressed, so more vulnerable than usual. I made criticisms that were unwarranted that I truly regret I should have just told you that I needed a bit more affection than usual because I was a bit down, but I chose instead to hope that you would read my mind. I wish I could press the rewind button..." Her answer was: "No stress my love. We will hug each other on Wednesday Xxxx" So her answer made me feel better but I don't know how much damage I did with me acting out this morning. I will try to keep my anxiety in check and hope for the better, assume that it paid to admit my mistake and that the damage is minimal. toorational - Based on her text, looks like she took everything in stride and, yes, damage is minimum. Don’t get all AP and overthink and over analyze. If she tells you she’s good in a warm text- accept it and be glad!! You will damage your relationships with being too anxious, ruminating and analyzing. It will make her want to run so whether she wants therapy or not, work on your own anxiety.
|
|
|
Post by toorational on Jul 16, 2019 2:18:06 GMT
It's also important to just build a friendship that recognizes each other as individuals for themselves, in addition to romance building which is seeing each other as partners. APs seem to only want the latter, which probably makes their partner feel "used" only as a partner to fulfill a particular role, rather than appreciated for just being themselves without having to also be a partner. I certainly recognise this in some of my other relationships. Just to clarify, I also love to do platonic fun activities together. I share lots of the same interests with my partner and I see it as an essential component of a relationship. But I need romance too. I realize as we grow older that foundation of friendship is much more important. Frienship is more important than romance? How so? How can you avoid becoming best friends and roommates, but not lovers, in the long run if you focus on platonic friendship activities? Curious. My ex usually didn't want any of those things unless it suited him and then it'll come full force without warning, which is often traumatic for me because I suddenly have to be a sexual and affectionate being in order not to reject him. I have the same experience. Sometimes she will have these wild impulses and be super horny and we have sex on the spot. Not that I'm complaining, it feels awesome in the moment but they are very rare. Probably like once every 6 months or so. I would say that you should have a think about what your needs are and what you want in an ideal relationship. Is it necessary to have deep prolonged intimacy all the time? If not, how much of the time, and is there a middle ground? i think we had this conversation somewhere else, but it was about needs and stability and consistency, and in what elements of the relationship needs consistency for it to work for both parties. Yes, we did discuss consistency in this same thread. Do I want deep prolonged intimacy all the time? No, in fact it never happens and I'm kinda okay with it. I just wish that I didn't have to hold back my passion for her, in fear of "putting pressure" on her with my sexual desire. I didn't have to hold back during the honeymoon phase but now I do. I terms of consistency, I discussed it before but I wish that ILY would be a daily occurrence at least. It's puzzling to me that my GF says ILS whenever she hangs up on the phone with her children, sisters or parents but not with me. Sure, we do talk more often but sometimes these ILY are few and far between. Sex I'd say something like 3-4 times a week but realistically less since we see each other only about 50% of days. Genuine passionate french kiss once a day. Ok so these are my expectations. Of course I'm willing to compromise. Most important for me is consistency.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 2:56:06 GMT
Thanks sherry, it's so helpful to get the point of view of another DA. I'm not sure if my GF is aware that she's DA or not. I discussed it with her in the past and I think that she agrees that she shares some of the DA characteristics. However, I don't believe that she thinks that there's any drawbacks to her attachment style or any need to improve anything on her side. It's funny how you talk about an AP friend who apologizes all the time. My friend (and cousin) is the same. He's AP like me but farther on the spectrum. I can see myself in him sometimes and totally understand how someone might be turned off by his behavior. On the other hand, he's such a loving partner for his girlfriend. He often plans grandiose surprises for her, took lots of time off work to be by her bedside during her chemotherapy and is just generally a very great guy to be around. Thanks tnr9 as well. Do you have any body exercise in particular to recommend? I went swimming tonight and this was the first physical activity I have done in 10 days and it helped my mood tremendously. So I sent my GF an apology text a few hours ago before I read sherry's answer but it goes along her suggestion to be honest with my mistakes. Here's a translation: "I'm sorry for my relapse this morning. I have no excuses except that I was tired and a bit depressed, so more vulnerable than usual. I made criticisms that were unwarranted that I truly regret I should have just told you that I needed a bit more affection than usual because I was a bit down, but I chose instead to hope that you would read my mind. I wish I could press the rewind button..." Her answer was: "No stress my love. We will hug each other on Wednesday Xxxx" So her answer made me feel better but I don't know how much damage I did with me acting out this morning. I will try to keep my anxiety in check and hope for the better, assume that it paid to admit my mistake and that the damage is minimal. toorational - Based on her text, looks like she took everything in stride and, yes, damage is minimum. Don’t get all AP and overthink and over analyze. If she tells you she’s good in a warm text- accept it and be glad!! You will damage your relationships with being too anxious, ruminating and analyzing. It will make her want to run so whether she wants therapy or not, work on your own anxiety. Yes, this is true. When I provide reassurance to my AP friend I am happy to do it and appreciate when he takes it at face value. It puts me off when he continues the anxiety, it's very easy to read in him. He's actually less attentive to our conversations and not present. So anxiety is a closeness-destroyer. We can do some of the reassurance but the rest , you've got to be able to calm for yourself. I think anne12 probably has posted good exercises for that, I haven't looked deeply into the AP healing threads to be sure.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 2:57:45 GMT
And in the end, some people are just not compatible because they value and are happy with different things.
|
|