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Post by toorational on Jul 15, 2019 13:28:14 GMT
I'd be very curious to know if any of you are aware of any successful AP-DA couples that made it past the honeymoon phase? What are the odds? Is it even worth it to try to make it work? Can an AP-DA relationship ever be fulfilling long-term for both side?
I guess I'm looking for some kind of hope. I'm interested in a general discussion about this type of pairing and not necessarily about my specific case.
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Post by anne12 on Jul 15, 2019 13:48:33 GMT
Yes they can, depending on how far they each are on the ap/da spectrum. Often times People have a mix of different attatchment styles together with some secure attatchmentstyle.
I know couples that have been together for 13-20 years at the moment with kids.
One of the couples are not aware of attatchment styles.
One of Them in the other couple is an attachment therapist herself.
In the healing AP thread I have posted and examble with a person (AP) and how to help herself through therapy to Be able to stay with a DA husband. (The examble with the vacation)
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Post by alexandra on Jul 15, 2019 16:14:01 GMT
I know people who do it, but they aren't really happy in those relationships unless they're independently working out their own attachment issues (and perhaps additionally going to couples therapy). I haven't known of one that didn't end in divorce or therapy. However, the ones that are both committed to doing the work do make progress and get happier. But that often involved the relationship getting incredibly painful first to get to the point of willingness to make changes. I actually once had a doctor tell me she found the book Attached after 13 unhappy years of marriage and kids, and learned she's DA and her husband is AP, and now they're in counseling and it's been amazing in understanding and improving their relationship.
I think a big part of the problem is it's difficult for insecure attachment types to truly move past the honeymoon stage in the sense of fantasy bonding. It's tough for insecures to go past fantasy bonding into the next stage of a relationship, which is about making the conscious decision to commit even without forever sparks and the honeymoon period feelings of limmerace. If they do, they may think something is wrong, because they don't feel "in love" and are lacking vulnerability, authenticity, and communication skills in that next stage (and progressing out of the fantasy bond and honeymoon phase is normal for human relationships and is different, but doesn't mean anything is wrong or the person isn't right for you once that happens). So that's not an AP-DA specific problem, but I think it is a serious obstacle for all insecure attachment types that leads to a lot of conflict.
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Post by alexandra on Jul 15, 2019 16:19:56 GMT
Also, a helpful resource for you if you're trying to explore this question would be looking into the work of Harville Hendrix and Helen Hunt.
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Post by faithopelove on Jul 16, 2019 1:59:59 GMT
Many couples are this pairing. Half of people are insecurely attached so it’s a numbers game plus these styles attract each other. Their success rate is higher than two avoidants or two AP’s.
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Post by toorational on Jul 18, 2019 14:07:43 GMT
Thanks alexandra, I'll look into Harville Hendrix and Helen Hunt. Sometimes I wonder if it's all worth it and if I would be more happy with a more compatible partner. But I remember that alas the perfect partner doesn't exist. I'm pretty sure that if I was with someone more compatible attachment-wise, I might be less compatible in other important aspects such as sexual chemistry or similar interests and activities for example. In any case, working towards being more secure is worthwhile.
I can see why DA-DA wouldn't work but it's harder to understand why AP-AP wouldn't work. I found a thread on here about it, I'll look into it just out of curiosity.
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Post by faithopelove on Jul 18, 2019 18:16:55 GMT
Thanks alexandra, I'll look into Harville Hendrix and Helen Hunt. Sometimes I wonder if it's all worth it and if I would be more happy with a more compatible partner. But I remember that alas the perfect partner doesn't exist. I'm pretty sure that if I was with someone more compatible attachment-wise, I might be less compatible in other important aspects such as sexual chemistry or similar interests and activities for example. In any case, working towards being more secure is worthwhile. I can see why DA-DA wouldn't work but it's harder to understand why AP-AP wouldn't work. I found a thread on here about it, I'll look into it just out of curiosity. - The AP/AP dynamic is a very explosive one wrought with unmet expectations and conflicts. It’s the most likely pairing for physical abuse as well as emotions escalate. This makes sense to me as avoidants are more likely to shut down and leave. Less drama. AP’s hang in. |
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Post by toorational on Aug 2, 2019 18:07:03 GMT
alexandra, I looked a bit into Hendrix & Hunt and their work seems to be based on their Imago model. I couldn't find too much references about attachment theory in their work, though they probably touch on the subject a bit in their book. I'm not sure if I want to invest time in learning another theory. I also only found a single Imago therapist in my area and it happens to be one that I have experience with and doesn't like. From what I understand, Imago is really promoted by these two authors and I'm not sure to what extent it's backed by science. Attachment theory on the other hand seems to be a widely used theory by many practitioners and is based on lots of science studies. I'd be interested to know more about your take on Imago.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 2, 2019 19:09:00 GMT
toorational, I listened to an interview once, and it sounded to me like they were an anxious/avoidant pair and really were just working through with attachment theory concepts before it had a widespread name. I'll see if I can dig that up.
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maryt
New Member
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Post by maryt on Aug 4, 2019 4:52:06 GMT
Yes, it can work! I’m AP and my bf is mostly FA with a bit of DA. It’s taken us over five years of an unbelievable amount of patience, understanding, forgiveness, learning and love, but we’re getting there (did I mention patience?). I knew nothing about attachment theory when I started dating him, but his periodic deactivating and pulling away is what brought me to seek understanding. This site and the multitude of conversations have helped me immensely. I’m especially grateful to the FA’s and DA’s who have been willing to share their perspectives...game changing for me. Reminded me that it’s not always about me and my needs. There are two of us in this relationship and often times we have polar opposite needs. But we’ve learned how to support each other and our differences. It’s not always easy, but we’re both committed to each other and to figuring it out. 🙂
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Post by alexandra on Aug 5, 2019 19:56:30 GMT
toorational , I'd start at 8 minutes here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbavYJMU6Aw&feature=youtu.be. If you listen to the whole thing from an attachment theory perspective, there's some additional more neurological pieces that it sounds like Imago considers as well (and a little bit of woo-woo going back into fetus development), but it's still how adult relationships project childhood issues with caretaking situations and trying to "correct" that. In my opinion, attachment theory explains why insecure attachers develop the defense mechanisms they do based on how they grew up and predicts the patterns of how people will keep acting as adults until they heal their own trauma and rewire. I think what Hendrix and Hunt are saying is pretty similar (they talk about how a state of disconnection is basically fear and a defense mechanism for survival that, as an adult, is just an illusion), but they go further and add some color. They say things like you may actually start to try to parent a partner in a relationship, and our brains are elastic and so need relationship examples to fix how we connect. I don't think the approaches are so different that you wouldn't come away with some more depth on attachment theory from this, plus they discuss how they healed their relationship problems in their own marriage... which still sounds to me like the anxious-avoidant relating you're asking about. You can disregard the parts of the approach you don't feel relate. What I would take with a grain of salt, is these are both people who were deeply interested in human behavior and self-improvement to begin with, so they were both on the same page about level of effort and commitment to working through their issues, both independently and together. That's still what I think is the key. (If you still want to just skip to the meat of their relationship relating, starting around 30 minutes is when they talk about how they couldn't find the right therapists for their situation and they even started divorce proceedings -- and then how Hunt realized that Hendrix was avoidant and it was making Hunt anxious, even though she's talking about it saying the word avoidant but not anxious, and instead is describing brain hemispheres, as "logical" and "empathic".)
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