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Post by caro on Jul 16, 2019 16:41:02 GMT
Hi! As I'm continuing to learn about attachment styles, especially the interworking of FAs, I'm curious to learn more about the FA circling / cycling pattern. Especially from FAs.
Some questions but open to all information as well:
- What are some of your thoughts during the time away?
- What helps push you into the cycle and out of the cycle? (aka deattaching and coming back around)
- What things have previous partners done to help give you space, develop trust, etc?
- Do you ever feel like a partner is being too nice/trusting as that's more foreign to you? And is that a bad thing from the partner? (My gut reaction to the latter is no, but just wanted to get some insight.)
- Any info on the notion of being extremely physically affectionate (not just sexually) and emotionally vulnerable then pulling back even more? And what helps?
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Post by mrob on Jul 16, 2019 21:35:48 GMT
Do yourself a favour and spend the money on Jeb’s Bad Boyfriends Book. It answers your questions in depth.
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Post by alexandra on Jul 16, 2019 22:55:15 GMT
I'm going to fill in some answers with the long periods of time my FA ex and I were trying to figure out wtf was going on in our relationship, and some of the answers he gave to me when I asked similar questions. But his own disconnection from himself, lack of self-awareness, and inconsistencies and contradictions in actions versus what he said are going to mean I'm adding color with my observations. A lot of the time he just didn't know or understand the answers, though occasionally he'd try to describe his feelings. Hi! As I'm continuing to learn about attachment styles, especially the interworking of FAs, I'm curious to learn more about the FA circling / cycling pattern. Especially from FAs. Some questions but open to all information as well: - What are some of your thoughts during the time away? - He isn't thinking about me really at all. He's avoiding doing it or deactivated and can't access it. He's usually justifying it at the time with feeling guilty about hurting me in some way and not wanting to continue hurting me with his presence. He also gets confused about it and believes to an extent that he somehow just got incredibly busy, too busy to think about me, when that never happened at any other times.What helps push you into the cycle and out of the cycle? (aka deattaching and coming back around) - He's not conscious of the cycle and doesn't recognize it. Either I triggered him when I was AP by getting triggered myself by something big he did or he got really close and deactivated afterwards, interpreting it as "loss of sexual attraction." He would come back around if I gave him 1-5 weeks and calmly reached out, so he knew he wouldn't be rejected or have to deal with consequences for his distance or silent treatment. If I was pushing him away, sometimes he'd start passively poking at me, usually through social media. What things have previous partners done to help give you space, develop trust, etc? I was always there for him, too much. Our boundaries still aren't that great, even now when I'm over the romantic part of the relationship. I'm an attachment figure to him and he knows I'll generally accept him back in spite of bad behavior and be there for him in bad times, but that's never impacted how he feels about me romantically. It just means he comes back around and around as a friend, and doesn't always treat me fairly. Though when he comes around after I'm distant and busy, he's as sweet as can be. I alternate between being pissed off at him when he's not a nice person and being fine being friends with him from a distance. There's probably leftover codependence that keeps us connected, but it's not harming my life at this point or keeping me unavailable to other men so, shrug. Oh, and probably consistency, that I'm honest and my words and actions align to the best of my ability. - Do you ever feel like a partner is being too nice/trusting as that's more foreign to you? And is that a bad thing from the partner? (My gut reaction to the latter is no, but just wanted to get some insight.) Again, yes, but not consciously. This manifests as, something feels missing, something feels off, something feels weird. Like, it's not triggering in one way or another (not avoidant or anxious) so it just feels... boring? The, I don't deserve a good partner or I don't know how to accept this kind of love isn't conscious or even really describable. It just feels like a, I'm not passionately in love with you and don't know why feeling, but I'm totally attracted to that unavailable and distant and inappropriate partner over there for some reason. Maybe they are the one, and you aren't. - Any info on the notion of being extremely physically affectionate (not just sexually) and emotionally vulnerable then pulling back even more? And what helps? Not consciously. Other FAs have described engulfment and uncertainty from getting too close as feeling trapped or like death. But they seem to feel the fear, not the underlying reason for the fear. And then just want to stop feeling bad, which may mean removing themselves from the situation.
Again, soooooooo much of this is pre-wired defense mechanisms and not happening consciously. If they understood it, they wouldn't get stuck in confusing patterns and could make changes. This is why dealing with someone of any insecure attachment type who isn't aware of it and ready to do their own work is bound to be difficult, often insurmountable. And why exploration of dynamics is good, but understanding your own attachment and trauma is better. |
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Post by faithopelove on Jul 17, 2019 1:37:56 GMT
Do yourself a favour and spend the money on Jeb’s Bad Boyfriends Book. It answers your questions in depth. - I should read that, but I must admit I’m loving getting lost in my summer reading mindless fiction at the time. It’s a great escape. Just finished novel #2 today on the beach 🏖 |
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Post by mrob on Jul 17, 2019 13:48:10 GMT
Enjoy your summer. I’ll mind the winter here for you!
The book drove me over the edge. For an FA like me, it was devastating. It was well worth it though. It popped my bubble, removing any doubt as to what motivates me, and how it affects those around me.
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Post by faithopelove on Jul 17, 2019 21:19:27 GMT
Enjoy your summer. I’ll mind the winter here for you! The book drove me over the edge. For an FA like me, it was devastating. It was well worth it though. It popped my bubble, removing any doubt as to what motivates me, and how it affects those around me. - Eye opening is good! Although painful....I’ll def read!! |
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Post by serenity on Jul 18, 2019 7:37:18 GMT
Hey Caroline .. I see a lot of advice on the forums to `work on your own attachment issues'...and some of it does make sense. But may I ask you a question... did you attach anxiously to him right from the beginning, or only when he flicked the switch after a period of reliability, and proved himself suddenly unreliable?
And are there any people in your life (a parent, siblings, friends, colleagues etc) you attach to in a non-anxious way?
What I'm wondering is along the lines of, maybe just this specific relationship made you feel anxious, because it changed dramatically and without warning? I mean to me its logical and natural to feel that way when someone you counted on flips their behavior on you? He presented himself as secure, and after months of you accepting that on face value...then suddenly he wasn't. So..is your anxiety really the problem here? I'm thinking not. I think your anxious reaction (and grief, no doubt!) is natural and explainable, and after a period of adjustment, you'll resign yourself to accepting the person he really is. You'll decide if that person is someone who you want to rely on, and in which capacity; whether he'll be a friend or someone you don't want in your life at all.
I'm sorry you experienced this; it can be so very painful at the time. But I promise you, you do survive it and come out stronger in the end. You may even keep a good friendship out of it, or something more. But do grieve of the loss of the relationship you thought you had, because now he's showing you his true self. And its rough for both of you. He'll be terrified of you punishing him somehow. You're terrified of how bad he'll get, will there be other women, whats going to happen now?
I share similar experiences and results as some people here, who decided to keep calm and welcoming during this phase....an attitude of curiosity more than anything else..who is this person, how low does he go (lol). I mean the relationship is all new. And during the process, its important to ask you what you really think and feel about his behaviour...beyond the anxiety. The truth you seek and feel with guide you out of the pain.
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Post by happyidiot on Jul 18, 2019 8:02:32 GMT
Hi caro- What are some of your thoughts during the time away? Depends how much I am into the person and on why I am having time "away." If I'm not that into them, I might not be thinking about them much. Maybe I'll think about how I should probably try to get off the fence about them because it's not nice to lead someone on. If I'm really into them and just got freaked out or needed some time apart, I might soon start getting anxious and missing them and feeling AP-like. But it also depends on what preceded this break. If something bad happened that caused me to deactivate I might spend the first while stressing and really thinking I need to break up with them. - What helps push you into the cycle and out of the cycle? (aka deattaching and coming back around) Feeling too vulnerable can cause deactivation, spending too much time with someone (for me my idea of "too much time" can be an objectively enormous amount of time with my current boyfriend but I recall it being much less with a previous boyfriend), conflict, being sick (probably because it makes me feel vulnerable), feeling extra insecure in the relationship (this could be triggered by many things), sometimes things that aren't even to do with the relationship... Coming back around is easy for me, I never do things like ghost people for weeks like some FAs. I will just feel like reaching out to that person once I feel a bit better or if I start getting AP-like feelings. Their behavior during this time affects if/when that happens of course. - Do you ever feel like a partner is being too nice/trusting as that's more foreign to you? And is that a bad thing from the partner? (My gut reaction to the latter is no, but just wanted to get some insight.) Yes. Especially if they are being too nice in a pushover doormat kind of way. I'll answer your other questions when I have more time! |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 22, 2019 3:07:42 GMT
Hi caro To answer your other questions: - What things have previous partners done to help give you space, develop trust, etc? Being consistent! Being clear and direct. Being able to have conflicts in a calm loving way, not angry outbursts and ultimatums (nor passive aggression). Showing they care about what I think and want, my feelings and opinions. Not pushing too hard for commitments that I've made it clear I'm not ready for (whether that is going on a trip together or moving in together or whatever), but still showing their clear consistent interest in me and that they do want to move forward. Having a life outside of me so that we naturally have some times apart. Not giving me too much space either, like if I say I think it's good to not just spend literally 24/7 together, or I turn down one invitation for a date, don't get cold and distant and never initiate time together again in some misguided effort to give me way more space than I was asking for, I'll just think they aren't interested. Responding well when I share my feelings and needs, rewarding and thanking me for that sharing, as opposed to getting mad whenever I share something they don't love, which makes me feel unsafe. Sharing their feelings and needs too (in the right way and at the right time of course), so I don't feel like I have to try to read their mind and anticipate things that will upset them or cause them to abandon me (many FAs were abused as kids, so this is something we reflexively think we have to do, because we thought it was our fault). - Any info on the notion of being extremely physically affectionate (not just sexually) and emotionally vulnerable then pulling back even more? And what helps? It's not something that happens to me a ton, as my biggest triggers into avoidant mode tend to be things I perceive as threats to the relationship like conflict or the person going away (say they go on a trip without me for example), but I will try to provide some insight based on the times that I have pulled back or wanted to pull back after being intimate. There seem to be 2 different scenarios. Scenario 1 is when I really don't feel that "into" the person. Maybe I felt like I was just doing what they wanted to do. FAs can be very susceptible to going along with what we think another person wants. Maybe I had sex with them or told them personal things about myself and they mistook that to mean something that it didn't mean for me. Maybe I wasn't really being that vulnerable and intimate. For example I can tell someone certain things about my past and it doesn't actually make me feel vulnerable but they might think, "Oh wow, I can't believe she told me that, she must feel close to me and trust me," just because it is something shocking or that might be a big deal for someone else. And I can be affectionate or sexual with someone I don't love. Then I might think oh crap, I shouldn't have done those things with this guy I'm not really interested in, better pull back so he doesn't get the wrong idea, I don't want to mislead or hurt him. Scenario 2 is with someone I am more serious about and do have stronger feelings for. In this case wanting to pull back after being really close physically and emotionally comes from a subconscious fear of rejection or of engulfment. What helps is if I don't get rejected or engulfed. What also helps is knowing what is going on and acting against it. I don't think that part is something you can help someone else with if they aren't aware of their attachment stuff and actively trying to work on it. For me these days it's often really easy to get over it because I know what it is and I know that the urge to flee won't last. Practice helps! The first time I told my current boyfriend I loved him I felt like I might barf and run away, now I can say it a thousand times. The first time we were really physically affectionate and had sex I wasn't even sure if I liked it and felt a little bit smothered and went home afterwards, but it didn't take me long to absolutely love it and want to always spend the night and now I wish we could cuddle around the clock and have sex multiple times a day. I'm not sure how someone FA with little self-insight would be able to overcome these challenges. I do know if he had acted super clingy or offended it might have turned me off. And if he had pulled back himself, rather than continuing to ask me out etc, I would have just assumed he wasn't that into me and moved on. |
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