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Post by toorational on Jul 22, 2019 19:50:41 GMT
alexandra, yes it likely varies according to where the person is on the DA spectrum. I'll modify my answer a bit. I had a previous 6 month relationship with a woman far on the DA spectrum and the number of red flags early on was through the roof. It was a rebound relationship for me and was just too stuck in my anxious behavior to recognize them (I also didn't know anything about attachment theory). Now with hindsight they were clear. But it's pretty easy to identify those far on the DA spectrum with just a bit of knowledge about attachment. The real challenge is with those with just slight DA tendencies (like my GF). But in that case (well any case really), your advice applies: work on your own AP problems. And then you'll be able to handle someone who is just slightly DA.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 1:23:32 GMT
I'm going to disagree you can't identify DAs at the beginning, because I've never dated DAs who were emotionally all-in and initiating and flipped later on. And I've dated a lot of them! Anyone I've dated like that was FA, because they want to be in relationships more, at first, until they get scared. DAs in my experience need more time and coaxing and will insert distance right from the beginning, as they are less interested in pursuing relationships for the sake of not being single, so the progression is based on more one-sided initiation as a result. At this point in my experience, I think both show early red flags, but since attachment style is a spectrum, it's possible I'm speaking about more entrenched and deeply unaware avoidants, and not the ones who are relatively more secure. But what I actually believe is it's easy if you are AP or more anxiously-styled FA to project idealization on partners at the beginning, to fill in the gaps on your own before you really know someone, and miss the indicators. Which is one of the reasons it's better to work on your own security then to be vigilant for red flags, as it will become obvious more naturally if someone is incompatible as you become more secure. mm that's a really interesting point. i've always called my ex a DA, but from your perspective, he's more like a DA-leaning FA, which triggered my AP side of FA. at the beginning, he was all into the relationship and saying for me never to leave him, and 6 months into the relationship, he said he doesnt want to spend time on the relationship and he needs to focus on his work, and then treated me with much disdain and distance till he suddenly switched back, but constantly referred to his preference of being alone and what not. It definitely felt like bait and switch like what faithopelove said. I saw it as DA being overwhelmed by hormones then sticking around because it was emotionally nice for him to have a gf, but not a real life partner.
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Post by faithopelove on Jul 23, 2019 1:37:59 GMT
I'm going to disagree you can't identify DAs at the beginning, because I've never dated DAs who were emotionally all-in and initiating and flipped later on. And I've dated a lot of them! Anyone I've dated like that was FA, because they want to be in relationships more, at first, until they get scared. DAs in my experience need more time and coaxing and will insert distance right from the beginning, as they are less interested in pursuing relationships for the sake of not being single, so the progression is based on more one-sided initiation as a result. At this point in my experience, I think both show early red flags, but since attachment style is a spectrum, it's possible I'm speaking about more entrenched and deeply unaware avoidants, and not the ones who are relatively more secure. But what I actually believe is it's easy if you are AP or more anxiously-styled FA to project idealization on partners at the beginning, to fill in the gaps on your own before you really know someone, and miss the indicators. Which is one of the reasons it's better to work on your own security then to be vigilant for red flags, as it will become obvious more naturally if someone is incompatible as you become more secure. alexandra - That is still what puzzles me about my ex. He seems to be a severe DA with all the DA characteristics, but in the beginning he was the pursuer who asked me out, showed up w a dozen roses on our first date, pushed to meet my parents and be exclusive. He didn’t desire space away from me (then) although he liked us to be home a lot, was a man of few words and balked at the suggestion of a trip away together. He had no problem declaring his love and commitment for me, but he told me he was never open to anyone before me, being “all in” meant so much to him bc “he never gave his heart to anyone.” Little things seemed huge to him like going to the shore together, he later called that a sacrifice, and going grocery shopping together was a “huge step.” The way he described himself in the past about easily writing women off he seemed DA and post break up he acts like a shut down DA. It makes me wonder if he’s FA or DA? Can’t a DA push hard in the beginning for a relationship they want deep down, but then distance when they feel engulfed later?
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Post by faithopelove on Jul 23, 2019 1:41:19 GMT
I'm going to disagree you can't identify DAs at the beginning, because I've never dated DAs who were emotionally all-in and initiating and flipped later on. And I've dated a lot of them! Anyone I've dated like that was FA, because they want to be in relationships more, at first, until they get scared. DAs in my experience need more time and coaxing and will insert distance right from the beginning, as they are less interested in pursuing relationships for the sake of not being single, so the progression is based on more one-sided initiation as a result. At this point in my experience, I think both show early red flags, but since attachment style is a spectrum, it's possible I'm speaking about more entrenched and deeply unaware avoidants, and not the ones who are relatively more secure. But what I actually believe is it's easy if you are AP or more anxiously-styled FA to project idealization on partners at the beginning, to fill in the gaps on your own before you really know someone, and miss the indicators. Which is one of the reasons it's better to work on your own security then to be vigilant for red flags, as it will become obvious more naturally if someone is incompatible as you become more secure. mm that's a really interesting point. i've always called my ex a DA, but from your perspective, he's more like a DA-leaning FA, which triggered my AP side of FA. at the beginning, he was all into the relationship and saying for me never to leave him, and 6 months into the relationship, he said he doesnt want to spend time on the relationship and he needs to focus on his work, and then treated me with much disdain and distance till he suddenly switched back, but constantly referred to his preference of being alone and what not. It definitely felt like bait and switch like what faithopelove said. I saw it as DA being overwhelmed by hormones then sticking around because it was emotionally nice for him to have a gf, but not a real life partner. @shiningstar - Same, mine broke at 6 months in. He looks/acts like a poster child for DA if you ask me!! And he did pursue so hard in the beginning. He was convinced he found “the one” and had no problem telling me, although it came with a warning that “you better not hurt me/leave me bc I never open up my heart like this!” Then....he leaves me?! Mine also stating that he’s better off alone and will just die alone. This he says post break, when together he’d say he always assumed he’d just die alone. “Alone” seems to be on the top of his tongue. It sounds DA to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 2:06:49 GMT
mm that's a really interesting point. i've always called my ex a DA, but from your perspective, he's more like a DA-leaning FA, which triggered my AP side of FA. at the beginning, he was all into the relationship and saying for me never to leave him, and 6 months into the relationship, he said he doesnt want to spend time on the relationship and he needs to focus on his work, and then treated me with much disdain and distance till he suddenly switched back, but constantly referred to his preference of being alone and what not. It definitely felt like bait and switch like what faithopelove said. I saw it as DA being overwhelmed by hormones then sticking around because it was emotionally nice for him to have a gf, but not a real life partner. @shiningstar - Same, mine broke at 6 months in. He looks/acts like a poster child for DA if you ask me!! And he did pursue so hard in the beginning. He was convinced he found “the one” and had no problem telling me, although it came with a warning that “you better not hurt me/leave me bc I never open up my heart like this!” Then....he leaves me?! Mine also stating that he’s better off alone and will just die alone. This he says post break, when together he’d say he always assumed he’d just die alone. “Alone” seems to be on the top of his tongue. It sounds DA to me. did we date the same guy?!? yes i was severely triggered and went off the rails myself. didn't matter in the end what it is, because all it did was show me how lame i was in getting triggered like this and how i had placed him higher on the priority list than i did myself, and then acted really poorly and insecurely as well. anne12 posted something on the 5 body types, and I thought that was very very useful in understanding what I needed to do myself in order to "identify" triggers. Meaning, if I focused on implementing my own rules for my own sake i.e., heal and build new ways of living, it's actually quite effective in filtering out alot of people, simply because they're either repelled by you or that your body will react negatively to them. since my breakup, i've went on many dates and I had a couple of experiences I thought were interesting. I was chatting over text with 2 different people at the same time while I was away, and both scheduled dates with me when I returned, which i was very happy about because both seemed like a good match in different ways. When i went on a date with A, my body just shrunk itself - shoulders away from him, sinking into my seat. It wasn't even conscious. We never went on a date again, because I literally ran from his car after the date (he said so). With B, it was never a case of "omg this is great" or "omg i need to run away", it was an absence of any major pull/push factors. There was no reason not to see him again - the coast was clear. It was an absence of anything, it was just calm and quiet and neutral, and so I did go out with him again when he asked me. and now we're together, and working through all of this slowly, and approaching the conversation of falling in love and commitment in a very rational and calm way but still expressing our own emotional state. I think the one thing that surprised me the most about dating B is the experience of "the coast is clear and calm" after the date, and there was just no reason to say no or yes. I made the decision from a very neutral standpoint it seemed. our dating came off the back of me being very explicit about my rules and expectations, without actually being very interested in what his were (somewhat, but I did not ask to suss compatibility) because I knew that when i am being 100% myself I am alot, and I ask for alot (devotion, affection, generosity, love, clarity, authenticity, partnership) and if he was not onboard, he will go away by himself. I'm not sure how much of this approach works because it's an effective approach in general versus who he just is as a person. This is not to say that B is a secure person, but I think he is aware of his insecurity and is working on them himself - we've talked about this as it was one of the very first things I brought up in conversation. I think identifying insecures early can happen in a few ways - you being absolutely grounded in yourself at all times (your body will tell), as well as asking lots of questions and just hearing them talk about things and the words they use. I once went out with someone who said he is now ready for someone to constrain him because he is going to be in the city for a few years for work. I think word choice is often a telling sign.
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Post by faithopelove on Jul 23, 2019 4:04:06 GMT
@shiningstar - Same, mine broke at 6 months in. He looks/acts like a poster child for DA if you ask me!! And he did pursue so hard in the beginning. He was convinced he found “the one” and had no problem telling me, although it came with a warning that “you better not hurt me/leave me bc I never open up my heart like this!” Then....he leaves me?! Mine also stating that he’s better off alone and will just die alone. This he says post break, when together he’d say he always assumed he’d just die alone. “Alone” seems to be on the top of his tongue. It sounds DA to me. did we date the same guy?!? yes i was severely triggered and went off the rails myself. didn't matter in the end what it is, because all it did was show me how lame i was in getting triggered like this and how i had placed him higher on the priority list than i did myself, and then acted really poorly and insecurely as well. anne12 posted something on the 5 body types, and I thought that was very very useful in understanding what I needed to do myself in order to "identify" triggers. Meaning, if I focused on implementing my own rules for my own sake i.e., heal and build new ways of living, it's actually quite effective in filtering out alot of people, simply because they're either repelled by you or that your body will react negatively to them. since my breakup, i've went on many dates and I had a couple of experiences I thought were interesting. I was chatting over text with 2 different people at the same time while I was away, and both scheduled dates with me when I returned, which i was very happy about because both seemed like a good match in different ways. When i went on a date with A, my body just shrunk itself - shoulders away from him, sinking into my seat. It wasn't even conscious. We never went on a date again, because I literally ran from his car after the date (he said so). With B, it was never a case of "omg this is great" or "omg i need to run away", it was an absence of any major pull/push factors. There was no reason not to see him again - the coast was clear. It was an absence of anything, it was just calm and quiet and neutral, and so I did go out with him again when he asked me. and now we're together, and working through all of this slowly, and approaching the conversation of falling in love and commitment in a very rational and calm way but still expressing our own emotional state. I think the one thing that surprised me the most about dating B is the experience of "the coast is clear and calm" after the date, and there was just no reason to say no or yes. I made the decision from a very neutral standpoint it seemed. our dating came off the back of me being very explicit about my rules and expectations, without actually being very interested in what his were (somewhat, but I did not ask to suss compatibility) because I knew that when i am being 100% myself I am alot, and I ask for alot (devotion, affection, generosity, love, clarity, authenticity, partnership) and if he was not onboard, he will go away by himself. I'm not sure how much of this approach works because it's an effective approach in general versus who he just is as a person. This is not to say that B is a secure person, but I think he is aware of his insecurity and is working on them himself - we've talked about this as it was one of the very first things I brought up in conversation. I think identifying insecures early can happen in a few ways - you being absolutely grounded in yourself at all times (your body will tell), as well as asking lots of questions and just hearing them talk about things and the words they use. I once went out with someone who said he is now ready for someone to constrain him because he is going to be in the city for a few years for work. I think word choice is often a telling sign. @shiningstar - So much we learned from these past relationships to apply moving forward! I’m happy for you 🙂🌻
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Post by hannah99 on Jul 23, 2019 7:30:01 GMT
toorational good point with the parents. My ex found it weird how affectionate my family were and didnt tell his parents he even had a serious girlfriend, I just turned up with him almost a year in and he said 'this is my girlfriend, Hannah.' alexandra interesting what you say about aps. I really struggling to understand what's acceptable behaviour and what isnt at the beginning. I constantly worry I'm being too demanding or unreasonable or I'm being a door mat. I really don't enjoy the first throws of dating.
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Post by mrob on Jul 23, 2019 9:13:54 GMT
I think people commonly cannot get past the feeling of being dismissed, and use the label DA when the behaviour over the life of a relationship clearly isn’t. Chase, pursue, oh crap this is getting real, run, realise a mistake has been made, couldn’t be that bad, reunite, oh crap, too close! Run, rinse and repeat.. That’s not the behaviour of someone who is for the most part happy with their own company and doesn’t need anyone! It’s the behaviour of a text book fearful avoidant. The details change, but the bare bones don’t.
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Post by hannah99 on Jul 23, 2019 9:31:33 GMT
@morn but isnt it the case that dad subconsciously crave intimacy? It just seems like an awful lot of people seem to demonstrate fa qualities but I always thought being fa was fairly rare.
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Post by stayhappy on Jul 23, 2019 9:47:33 GMT
www.google.se/amp/s/www.emotionenhancement.com/single-post/Attachment-Styles-In-Adults/The-Fearful-Avoidant-Attachment-Style%3f_amp_This may help to understand why DA are not dismissives all the time. ”It is important to note that people with anxious attachment style and people with dismissive-avoidant attachment style can show traits of the opposite insecure attachment style that may cause them to believe they are fearful-avoidant. For example, Ben's mother was very smothering in childhood but his father would alternate between giving him attention and being completely dismissive during periods of time when he was under high pressure at work. Ben scores highly on the dismissive-avoidance scale as the relationship with his mother was most influential to him. However, he does also have some anxious characteristics that he developed from his father's behavior towards him. He is mostly attracted towards anxious women, therefore, he stays in his dismissive-avoidant attachment style for the majority of the time. Occasionally he meets a women he is attracted to who is more dismissive-avoidant than him, which polarizes him over to his anxious side. He then finds himself using some anxious attachment behaviors to try and get her attention. It does not mean that he has the fearful-avoidant attachment style. Fear was not an emotion that he experienced during childhood much, the negative emotions he mostly felt where feeling suffocated, annoyed or rejected. People with fearful-avoidant attachment display much more unpredictable behavior.”
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Post by hannah99 on Jul 23, 2019 11:04:42 GMT
Sounds right. My da only showed anxious traits when I rejected him.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 12:22:48 GMT
www.google.se/amp/s/www.emotionenhancement.com/single-post/Attachment-Styles-In-Adults/The-Fearful-Avoidant-Attachment-Style%3f_amp_This may help to understand why DA are not dismissives all the time. ”It is important to note that people with anxious attachment style and people with dismissive-avoidant attachment style can show traits of the opposite insecure attachment style that may cause them to believe they are fearful-avoidant. For example, Ben's mother was very smothering in childhood but his father would alternate between giving him attention and being completely dismissive during periods of time when he was under high pressure at work. Ben scores highly on the dismissive-avoidance scale as the relationship with his mother was most influential to him. However, he does also have some anxious characteristics that he developed from his father's behavior towards him. He is mostly attracted towards anxious women, therefore, he stays in his dismissive-avoidant attachment style for the majority of the time. Occasionally he meets a women he is attracted to who is more dismissive-avoidant than him, which polarizes him over to his anxious side. He then finds himself using some anxious attachment behaviors to try and get her attention. It does not mean that he has the fearful-avoidant attachment style. Fear was not an emotion that he experienced during childhood much, the negative emotions he mostly felt where feeling suffocated, annoyed or rejected. People with fearful-avoidant attachment display much more unpredictable behavior.” My experience. Individual parenting environments will impact the dominant attachment style. There is a lot of flux in this, and we can see that the same two parents can produce children with different attachment styles. So birth order, individual temperament, and phases of life can influence as well. I've experienced anxiety in response to a relationship before (dear God please never again) but my predominant style is retreat, retreat, retreat. It's actually frustrating to revert to that under duress. The whole list of dismissive beliefs and reactions are my diary- but there is probably a guy out there who, if he tried to diagnose me, might not see that because we didn't date long enough. I've tried to be "normal" and do dating the way I see it portrayed, I wasn't in pursuit I was just trying to be nice and not weird. Anyway, it's really tricky to diagnose someone else, it's very complex and only helpful to a certain extent. The bottom line is, if you aren't in a relationship with an ex but still struggling with that, their style doesn't matter but yours does.
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Post by nathan on Jul 29, 2019 9:59:34 GMT
www.google.se/amp/s/www.emotionenhancement.com/single-post/Attachment-Styles-In-Adults/The-Fearful-Avoidant-Attachment-Style%3f_amp_This may help to understand why DA are not dismissives all the time. ”It is important to note that people with anxious attachment style and people with dismissive-avoidant attachment style can show traits of the opposite insecure attachment style that may cause them to believe they are fearful-avoidant. For example, Ben's mother was very smothering in childhood but his father would alternate between giving him attention and being completely dismissive during periods of time when he was under high pressure at work. Ben scores highly on the dismissive-avoidance scale as the relationship with his mother was most influential to him. However, he does also have some anxious characteristics that he developed from his father's behavior towards him. He is mostly attracted towards anxious women, therefore, he stays in his dismissive-avoidant attachment style for the majority of the time. Occasionally he meets a women he is attracted to who is more dismissive-avoidant than him, which polarizes him over to his anxious side. He then finds himself using some anxious attachment behaviors to try and get her attention. It does not mean that he has the fearful-avoidant attachment style. Fear was not an emotion that he experienced during childhood much, the negative emotions he mostly felt where feeling suffocated, annoyed or rejected. People with fearful-avoidant attachment display much more unpredictable behavior.” What if you primarily show traits of AP, some of the others mixed in occasionally, but without a doubt can recognize intense fear of at least some of the caretakers in your upbringing. I’m 22 I’m not even sure I’ve got a full glimpse into who I am anymore. I don’t know if I behave unpredictable so much as just live a chaotic life though.
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