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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 2:08:06 GMT
It’s happened again. Avoidant = jerk. Not an unaware person acting from a place of internal dysfunction not of their doing, just judgment. Lack of self awareness? There are plenty on both sides who go through life never being aware, and in my experience, it’s not until devastation that some (!) will entertain the thought of change. You’re armed with the information about this person, it’s time to trim your sails and act as you see fit. If, for some reason, you can’t do that, it may be time to look at yourself. Yes.
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Post by beyondconfused on Jul 25, 2019 4:23:20 GMT
It’s happened again. Avoidant = jerk. Not an unaware person acting from a place of internal dysfunction not of their doing, just judgment. Lack of self awareness? There are plenty on both sides who go through life never being aware, and in my experience, it’s not until devastation that some (!) will entertain the thought of change. You’re armed with the information about this person, it’s time to trim your sails and act as you see fit. If, for some reason, you can’t do that, it may be time to look at yourself. It’s happened again. Avoidant = jerk. Not an unaware person acting from a place of internal dysfunction not of their doing, just judgment. Lack of self awareness? There are plenty on both sides who go through life never being aware, and in my experience, it’s not until devastation that some (!) will entertain the thought of change. You’re armed with the information about this person, it’s time to trim your sails and act as you see fit. If, for some reason, you can’t do that, it may be time to look at yourself. Yes. No where did I ever say he was a jerk. In fact, I think quite the opposite and think he is a lovely person, he just is unaware of what he is doing and why. He even told me that himself, the he doesnt know why he does these things. That is what I meant by having a lack of self awareness. Forgive me if I used the term incorrectly, but you dont have to come in all defensive about something when no generalizations about avoidants were being made.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 4:50:42 GMT
It’s happened again. Avoidant = jerk. Not an unaware person acting from a place of internal dysfunction not of their doing, just judgment. Lack of self awareness? There are plenty on both sides who go through life never being aware, and in my experience, it’s not until devastation that some (!) will entertain the thought of change. You’re armed with the information about this person, it’s time to trim your sails and act as you see fit. If, for some reason, you can’t do that, it may be time to look at yourself. No where did I ever say he was a jerk. In fact, I think quite the opposite and think he is a lovely person, he just is unaware of what he is doing and why. He even told me that himself, the he doesnt know why he does these things. That is what I meant by having a lack of self awareness. Forgive me if I used the term incorrectly, but you dont have to come in all defensive about something when no generalizations about avoidants were being made. I took mrob's statement as a kind of general statement not really aimed at any one in particular but aimed at the tone of the thread, and I also don't see it as necessarily defensive, just sound advice. I second it because it's kind of cringey with the name calling but I'm picking up that that must just be that poster's particular style- douchebag, jerk, honey, etc. I wonder if an avoidant could get away with calling people bitches and buttplugs.. probably not. *exiting the thread, as you were.
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Post by mrob on Jul 25, 2019 6:25:45 GMT
As you were! Love it.. @sherry
In sentiment and in word. Jerk was the word mentioned. It’s not helpful and it’s an inappropriate description of the behaviour.
I know what I am. I’m doing something about it on a daily basis. “Jerk” is one way the other party shows they have no intention of looking at their own behaviour; sweeping their side of the street. It points blame outward instead of seeing an event as an opportunity to change.
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Post by serenity on Jul 25, 2019 7:50:16 GMT
um I mentioned those words, are these comments directed at me? I mentioned them in context of explaining that being FA does not mean they deserve to be on the scrapheap.
I think this thread is heated because the first major deactivation from an FA romantic partner, when you don't see it coming, is brutal. It hurts a ton and causes a lot of mistrust because the relationship was presented as something secure initially. Some people will see the partner as all bad because of it. All i suggest is taking some time to evaluate the situation and person accurately. My FA exes are good friends of mine who i love and cherish.
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Post by 8675309 on Jul 25, 2019 11:25:52 GMT
Buttplugs! Too funny. @sherry
To add, when I brought up attachment I brought it up talking about myself and how its changed my life which led into how it can change his. I asked him if we could talk about something and we did. The conversation just flowed. We had a chill talk about it snuggled on the couch.
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Post by mrob on Jul 25, 2019 11:47:59 GMT
That’s not the way I saw it at all, serenity. At the end of the day, you’re entitled to your own opinions. I’ve been on this board for a while, and this is a reasonably common thing to say about avoidants. For those who haven’t done the research, the behaviour is bewildering. AP behaviour makes more sense in the world. It’s the viewpoint from which poetry and prose are written. (Unless you’re Pink talking about “Go away, come back!”) It’s easy to label someone a “jerk” or some other pejorative term and move on without a second glance. Without looking inward. That’s my point.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 13:07:19 GMT
mrob 8675309 😄 I geek out on trauma response, because I think recognizing it is incredibly eye opening, and can lead to taking the next steps of resolving it so that instinctive reactions to stress (patterned by the nervous system in response to original trauma) can be resolved and free us from repeating our trauma by choosing partners to re-enact it with. Trauma that is unresolved will be re-enacted. In this thread there are examples of the fight, flight, and fawn responses illustrated by narrations and advice written by the participants. All are adaptations learned in early childhood. I highly recommend taking a look at this article to see where each of your own stress responses align with the pattern of fight/flight/freeze/fawn, it will be eye opening and can begin to change the way you see your role in relationships. Therapy to resolve the unresolved trauma responses you first relied on in your family of origin to survive will help change your patterns of relating in the world. It's really good stuff, I hope you enjoy it and I posted more in the general forum under the freeze state thread. The very last comment I made contains a link that goes through the different attachment styles and their related trauma phase. pete-walker.com/fourFs_TraumaTypologyComplexPTSD.htm
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jules
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Post by jules on Jul 25, 2019 15:11:56 GMT
Pete Walker is amazing! Love.
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Post by alexandra on Jul 25, 2019 17:03:54 GMT
There are plenty of opportunities to be direct and open, but during/just after a major episode of deactivation is not one of them I found. This is a good callout. I tried this after a major deactivation was easing, and the response I got was totally defensive (though he also doesn't desire to change). I tried it with someone else at a neutral time, and related the conversation to family issues he's seeking resolution with not to us or how he handles romantic relationships. That's what catches his interest. I got through in that short conversation, though I don't know if he's really going to follow up in action like he claimed he wanted to, as things still didn't work out in with that person either.
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Post by serenity on Jul 25, 2019 21:46:44 GMT
That’s not the way I saw it at all, serenity . At the end of the day, you’re entitled to your own opinions. I’ve been on this board for a while, and this is a reasonably common thing to say about avoidants. For those who haven’t done the research, the behaviour is bewildering. AP behaviour makes more sense in the world. It’s the viewpoint from which poetry and prose are written. (Unless you’re Pink talking about “Go away, come back!”) It’s easy to label someone a “jerk” or some other pejorative term and move on without a second glance. Without looking inward. That’s my point. hehe I think whats her name Katy Perry did a song like that too, `hot and Cold' lol. I wholeheartedly agree that `avoidant attachment style ' is too broad a term to define a person's character. And I see your point- I'll be more careful about using phrases that might sound like a personal criticism. To be clear, I believe some truly heartless and dangerous people exist in dating culture. I'm referring to subcultures such as PUA, red pill, pro Manipulators, abusers and sex traffickers to name a few. Their behaviours can mimic an Avoidant attachment style and it really is worth stepping back and evaluating the situation if there are red flags.
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Post by serenity on Jul 25, 2019 22:17:20 GMT
There are plenty of opportunities to be direct and open, but during/just after a major episode of deactivation is not one of them I found. This is a good callout. I tried this after a major deactivation was easing, and the response I got was totally defensive (though he also doesn't desire to change). I tried it with someone else at a neutral time, and related the conversation to family issues he's seeking resolution with not to us or how he handles romantic relationships. That's what catches his interest. I got through in that short conversation, though I don't know if he's really going to follow up in action like he claimed he wanted to, as things still didn't work out in with that person either. Oh that was a good way of going about it, Alexandra. Thanks for sharing that. I find indirect communication works well too, when its something potentially triggering. I'm glad you got to say what you needed. My last FA ex starting circling about a month after the first major deactivation. It took us about another month of cautious communication before he started acting a little needy, and apologetic for what he had done. When he was apologising, I was able to say something like `Yeah i felt very hurt but i think i am beginning to understand, its because of X- does that sound right to you?' He asked me more about what i meant, and generally accepted the discussion very well. After that we were able to start talking more deeply without guard, and its a close and drama-free friendship now. We did talk about rekindling things at one point, but we both felt very strongly he wouldn't be ready for it. I'm happy with what we have.. it feels like a secure attachment, not the drama filled angsty one we had when we were too close (for him)
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