|
Post by tnr9 on Aug 22, 2019 11:32:13 GMT
If it was as simple as I am about to try to make it then perhaps we wouldn't need to be posting here - but I like simple and sometimes life is made overcomplicated by our layers of analysis. So here goes. The labels don't serve you - they are all you know, but they are not you - they are how other people have defined you and in turn you have used them and continue to do so to define yourself. They won't go away - and the thoughts will keep coming because these are the pathways that are strong with use. BUT you have a choice to recognise, allow without getting caught in their truth and let go. So Ah ha - there's a labelling thought watch it without believing in it or denying it and then in the pause, you get to choose how to react - and it will be these reactions, they minute behaviours that shape your future regardless of what you think/ believe/ your past etc So - recognising is the first step - a ha a label, a limiting thought Allowing is step two - allow but don't follow down rabbit hole, Then in that pause choosing your reaction based on your values - what you want for you life in the future, what REALLY matters to you. These are not the same as goals which you will pass on fail on, they are life shaping behaviours in an ongoing way. For example perhaps Cultivating meaningful friendships Volunteering Helping others Spending time in nature Lifelong learning Travel Or none of these and a whole lot of other things - maybe really spend a long time looking at what your values are - and then concentrating on a few and starting to align your actions to your values rather than believing your thoughts and letting them control your future. I think this could be a really really exciting time for you - and how about setting up the tnr9 project? This is your time - your future - you only have one precious life. As soon as stories from the past come up, the I can't , the analysing, the I wish I wasn't stories - just let them be and recognise that they are not real - and not only that, they are not helpful at this moment in time. It will leave you with a void I should think - and this might be uncomfortable -but it might also bit by bit bring a tiny bit of peace - and peace breeds more peace. Good Luck Thanks Ocarina....right now I feel completely unmotivated. Everyone suggest “doing” things....but I find that I just don’t get excited and actually feel shame over my lack of desire. I am grateful when friends suggest getting together because otherwise, I would not get out much. I see “action” rewarded time and time again on these boards. I am a good person, I have a stable job, I love my friends and my family and my cat, I spend a lot of time “thinking” because it feels right to me. One of my values is to be “grace giving”....there is so much judgement in the world. I like noticing nature.....last night there was this beautiful sky with amazing hues of orange so I stopped and took photos on my phone.
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Aug 22, 2019 11:32:35 GMT
Good for you, You Can get to the others side of this. Thank you.💕
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Aug 22, 2019 11:35:10 GMT
I think you are very strong and brave in the way you lay it all out without fear of judgement. Even if it’s there, it’s not enough to deter from posting your very private thoughts. That really brave! Netflix - when it gets to that point for me - is a signal I’m a bit depressed and am trying to distract myself so I don’t have to deal with my emotions. I let it roll out. Usually it’s about a month for me. Not to say that I’m suggesting that’s a measurement of anything but just that’s my pattern. I tend to lean towards ‘habit’ which some others have stated as the problem that typically needs to be addressed when I’m in a similar situation. When you’ve been thinking about someone for years pathologically... it’s hardwired. You have to create new neuropathways and let them eat up the energy. Hobbies, work, arts, writing, cooking, music - I definitely find results when I pick up something new to learn as the learning curve requires my attention and that means I spend less time obsessing. Again this is a process and by no means a quick solution. Another trick I use is I face myself in the mirror. I tell my reflection words of affirmation and give permission to veg out on the couch and watch Netflix and ruminate. I’m a secure btw and I can 100% relate and the bottom line is you gotta get to the core of why you don’t have your own back. You clearly have power (gf or no gf he’s still hanging around you as well!) but now it’s time to use it for yourself. To nourish and eliminate any self doubts on whether you got this or not. You have courage and empathy and awareness. One step at a time - you got this. Thank you so very much for this. I do really appreciate all you have said here.🙂
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 14:11:39 GMT
If it was as simple as I am about to try to make it then perhaps we wouldn't need to be posting here - but I like simple and sometimes life is made overcomplicated by our layers of analysis. So here goes. The labels don't serve you - they are all you know, but they are not you - they are how other people have defined you and in turn you have used them and continue to do so to define yourself. They won't go away - and the thoughts will keep coming because these are the pathways that are strong with use. BUT you have a choice to recognise, allow without getting caught in their truth and let go. So Ah ha - there's a labelling thought watch it without believing in it or denying it and then in the pause, you get to choose how to react - and it will be these reactions, they minute behaviours that shape your future regardless of what you think/ believe/ your past etc So - recognising is the first step - a ha a label, a limiting thought Allowing is step two - allow but don't follow down rabbit hole, Then in that pause choosing your reaction based on your values - what you want for you life in the future, what REALLY matters to you. These are not the same as goals which you will pass on fail on, they are life shaping behaviours in an ongoing way. For example perhaps Cultivating meaningful friendships Volunteering Helping others Spending time in nature Lifelong learning Travel Or none of these and a whole lot of other things - maybe really spend a long time looking at what your values are - and then concentrating on a few and starting to align your actions to your values rather than believing your thoughts and letting them control your future. I think this could be a really really exciting time for you - and how about setting up the tnr9 project? This is your time - your future - you only have one precious life. As soon as stories from the past come up, the I can't , the analysing, the I wish I wasn't stories - just let them be and recognise that they are not real - and not only that, they are not helpful at this moment in time. It will leave you with a void I should think - and this might be uncomfortable -but it might also bit by bit bring a tiny bit of peace - and peace breeds more peace. Good Luck Thanks Ocarina....right now I feel completely unmotivated. Everyone suggest “doing” things....but I find that I just don’t get excited and actually feel shame over my lack of desire. I am grateful when friends suggest getting together because otherwise, I would not get out much. I see “action” rewarded time and time again on these boards. I am a good person, I have a stable job, I love my friends and my family and my cat, I spend a lot of time “thinking” because it feels right to me. One of my values is to be “grace giving”....there is so much judgement in the world. I like noticing nature.....last night there was this beautiful sky with amazing hues of orange so I stopped and took photos on my phone. It's an interesting take, to see people as "rewarded" for action here. I see it as people finding positive action rewarding in their own lives. Life is action, it's not just thoughts. Thought leads to action, or else thought paralyzes one in inertia. I don't know that people here are looking for reward, and looking to reward, people are here looking for positive changes and growth. Life itself becomes more rewarding when we take action on things that are important to us, such as self care and the healthy care of others. In the end we all get to choose our perspective and our actions which support our perspective. If you are more comfortable just thinking about things and that works for you. so be it. However. your posts are some of the most negative and self defeating narratives I have encountered. Do you resent that people make suggestions for action? It seems that you push back when they do. I'm just trying to understand what you're looking for when you ask for input.
|
|
|
Post by ocarina on Aug 22, 2019 15:04:26 GMT
"Procrastination starts from an avoidance of something from fear, then becomes a pattern that hardens into a habit. We reinforce this procrastination habit through years of practice, and it hurts us in so many ways in our lives — not only with work tasks, but much more." It's all habit tnr9 - even this - the getting lost in thought. Perhaps especially this. Maybe all this feeling feels natural because that's what you have practiced? I do think that change requires motivation and commitment and that without either of these it's really hard and maybe easier to stay stuck in the grove. You are worthwhile absolutely as you are but from what you've posted here over the years you don't seem content with yourself - not content where you are but not motivated to make changes that might nudge where you are now into a different reality. My posts on here may sound judgemental and if so I apologise - but I truly want to try to understand or what it is that keeps you stuck. Yes you do see cheerleading on here for people who've taken action - but I'd like to think that many of us recognise that this is difficult stuff. Nobody is judging you where you are now - maybe it would be most helpful for us just to listen.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 15:16:33 GMT
There's nothing wrong with cheerleading each other, and also discernment between what is helpful and not helpful is not out of bounds. Perhaps it is all subjective, perhaps it seems "judgemental" , but in the end, the beauty of all of it is in the eye of the beholder.
I see people coming together here to inspire and encourage one another in making positive changes - to thought, actions, behaviors, relationships with self and others. Naturally, positive affiliations are to the benefit of all involved. Those choosing not to participate in positive actions are doing so by choice, and they are free to make that choice, of course.
It's really just about each person contributing what they have, and receiving benefits where they see benefit. There's no Forum Parent here dishing out conditional or unconditional love- it's just all adult participation as chosen by the participants. Take it or leave it, right?
However the feedback on threads like this causes me to suspect that suggestions are not welcome. Which is fine- just trying to clarify.
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Aug 22, 2019 15:38:24 GMT
Thanks Ocarina....right now I feel completely unmotivated. Everyone suggest “doing” things....but I find that I just don’t get excited and actually feel shame over my lack of desire. I am grateful when friends suggest getting together because otherwise, I would not get out much. I see “action” rewarded time and time again on these boards. I am a good person, I have a stable job, I love my friends and my family and my cat, I spend a lot of time “thinking” because it feels right to me. One of my values is to be “grace giving”....there is so much judgement in the world. I like noticing nature.....last night there was this beautiful sky with amazing hues of orange so I stopped and took photos on my phone. It's an interesting take, to see people as "rewarded" for action here. I see it as people finding positive action rewarding in their own lives. Life is action, it's not just thoughts. Thought leads to action, or else thought paralyzes one in inertia. I don't know that people here are looking for reward, and looking to reward, people are here looking for positive changes and growth. Life itself becomes more rewarding when we take action on things that are important to us, such as self care and the healthy care of others. In the end we all get to choose our perspective and our actions which support our perspective. If you are more comfortable just thinking about things and that works for you. so be it. However. your posts are some of the most negative and self defeating narratives I have encountered. Do you resent that people make suggestions for action? It seems that you push back when they do. I'm just trying to understand what you're looking for when you ask for input. The only person I have clearly resented was my mom....it took decades to realize that her suggestions for action were not actually statements about my identity. I think that is perhaps the big issue...now that I think about it....I have turned suggestions into expectations....and I shut down because I know I will fail and it is too much effort to counteract that fear of disappointment in others, so I don’t even undertake them. I honestly feel overwhelmed so much of the time by myself that having someone else to focus on feels like a relief...and yet...within that sentence lies a root issue...feeling so overwhelmed and exhausted and just not up to the task of self care...as if self care is somehow an expectation that I will fail so why even go there. It is...quite frankly...self defeating...and I just have not wanted to look into that abyss.....every single time I try something...it typically doesn’t stick and I go back to form...but exploring thoughts has actually worked...in a weird way. I have all these mental roadblocks....that I feel I need to clear before any “action” can truly stick....does that make Sense? I truly am not trying to say that suggestions of actionable steps is wrong or bad....I see loads of people havethem work...I just have to untangle the mantel blocks or nothing will change.
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Aug 22, 2019 17:53:56 GMT
tnr9, I think the suggestions for actions are they help break and change some of the thought patterns it's easy to get stuck in. For me, I had to research and think and figure out what was going on first, but then the choice to focus on myself and change things involved taking drastically different actions than usual and not letting the old negative thought patterns derail me even if I got uncomfortable. Just accept those and stay the new action courses and see what happened. And what happened was new perspectives and growth that overpowered the AP thought patterns that weren't helping me. I agree it's not about seeking a reward, it's about taking all the necessary steps to see change. It's hard to create lasting change if you're still thinking and not doing anything else differently. Let's say, you broke your arm. You can research it, understand how the accident happened that caused you to break your arm, understand the biology behind how the body heals and scientifically what's going on... but if you don't take action to set and wrap the fracture, it's going to hurt for much longer and probably not heal properly or fully functionally, no matter how much you've thought about it. Lean into what you're saying about how your mom left you with negative feelings about taking action. Explore that. Maybe it's not even your own reluctance -- it's ideas that were projected onto you that, at your core, aren't your own thoughts. Or, perhaps inaction was a defense mechanism to keep things more stable as a kid that doesn't serve you any longer.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 18:18:21 GMT
tnr9Do you blame your mother for your condition?
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Aug 22, 2019 18:48:10 GMT
tnr9 Do you blame your mother for your condition? No I don’t now. I see us as just very different individuals who process things differently. Just recently she decided to see someone about her left over feelings from her childhood and the divorce from my dad...which I think is great. I was simply trying to understand a pattern of inaction on my part and it came to me that a core issue may be my misinterpretation of her suggestions with my identity. I am in the process of exploring that more....but found that to be a really interesting tidbit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 19:25:31 GMT
tnr9 Do you blame your mother for your condition? No I don’t now. I see us as just very different individuals who process things differently. Just recently she decided to see someone about her left over feelings from her childhood and the divorce from my dad...which I think is great. I was simply trying to understand a pattern of inaction on my part and it came to me that a core issue may be my misinterpretation of her suggestions with my identity. I am in the process of exploring that more....but found that to be a really interesting tidbit. You've mentioned that you belong to a spiritual community. Does your faith/religious belief support your attitudes of inaction, supporting a mental process of thinking vs doing? I don't know what your faith is, but many traditions adhere to the principle of reaping what you sow. And many emphasize the idea of taking responsibility for your thoughts and actions in order to be an uplifting influence on yourself and those around you. I'm curious as to whether or not you hold yourself to any such ideas, or if you reject those along with suggestions from fellow humans who also suffer and find ways to overcome it. Does your religious faith offer any encouragement to you in these areas? Do you find any expectation to be burdensome? Do you find yourself to be accountable to any kind of mental or behavioral discipline? It seems to me that negligence of self care would be a moral dilemma to anyone with a spiritual practice. That's just my perspective, you may not agree. You mention thinking and processing as if it somehow the key to your deliverance from your troubles- does that fit with your faith? I am unfamiliar with any western tradition that supports perpetual analysis over right action. Eastern traditions do emphasize analysis of thought because action is seen as arising from thought. I'm sure you are familiar with the concept of Karma, and while you may not subscribe to it, the Western Christian schools do refer to the "Reap what you sow" passages in scripture, it's pretty similar. Does this not encourage you to take right action to take care of yourself even if you do not prefer to do so? It would seem that neglect of appropriate self care would be in opposition to a live lived with the grace you say is important to you. You say that the world is full of judgement, but what kind of judgement is neglect? I think that neglect of self is a negative judgement against the self. Perpetuating thoughts of unworthiness or failure also seems to be a negative judgement against the self. You had asked if what you are saying about thinking makes sense, but to me it does not. That's why I am asking these questions.
|
|
|
Post by ocarina on Aug 22, 2019 19:44:39 GMT
Continuing the discussion on faith. The Buddhist monk who founded the Western monasteries in the Thai forest tradition with which I have an association, said of the Thai monks - they need to reflect and meditate - of the Western monks - they need to get out of their heads and be with the physical.
I think there may be something cultural here - when do we get out in all weathers to be physically exhausted, to really feel rain on skin, to awaken our bodies? Not often for many people. I’m a cold water swimming and it’s better for me than any therapy!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 20:11:25 GMT
Continuing the discussion on faith. The Buddhist monk who founded the Western monasteries in the Thai forest tradition with which I have an association, said of the Thai monks - they need to reflect and meditate - of the Western monks - they need to get out of their heads and be with the physical. I think there may be something cultural here - when do we get out in all weathers to be physically exhausted, to really feel rain on skin, to awaken our bodies? Not often for many people. I’m a cold water swimming and it’s better for me than any therapy! I get what you're saying, although my point was more to her hesitance to follow through on self care, she mentioned her health and other areas. I was looking at the implied spiritual obligation to not neglect these things. Unless she is in a faith that supports the neglect of the body, she may be. I have no idea. My understanding is that most faiths do expect the faithful to care for themselves appropriately, the Christian tradition sees the body as a temple, for example. The Christian is directed to love the other as one loves the self, not instead of loving the self. Love would include appropriate care, in my understanding. The logic of her explanations for thinking vs doing doesn't make sense to me so I was just responding to her question "does that make sense?". The idea of faith arose to me because of her frequent mention of a spiritual community, and also the concept of grace which I know features heavily in the Christian tradition. But I'm with you- I am very much into getting out of my head and into the physical realities of life, one can't be without the other. The mind and body are truly one and cannot be regarded separately. That's been the beauty of adding somatic therapy to my process- learning how to work with feelings as they arise in my body has been a whole new level of growth. It's all super good! Returning to point- I cannot see how failing to take care of one's health is spiritually supported, or given as an option. It seems that it is a requisite to a spiritual life. It seems that the need for perpetual figuring out becomes obsolete if simple action is taken. If we had to come to complete understanding before we take action, then life would grind to a halt. And indeed, some people only feel the fire under their ass when they realize they have procrastinated themselves right into debilitating or terminal illness. But again, the reality is we all must live with the consequences of our action or inaction. And so just the others around us. That's the reality- and it is also possible to impose a burden on others by remaining inactive when our duty is to provide care to ourselves. I saw that with a relative who neglected her health and imposed a burden on her caregivers, not that being sick is a sin... but she required a lot of care because of her own bad habits and self neglect. Those around her took better care of her than she did herself, nobody neglected her , but her. I'm not saying we should not help each other!! Of course we have compassion- but shouldn't that start with the self? Personal responsibility, I think, is valid, when considering the fact that we are interdependent. I consider that, since I have children. I consider appropriate self care to be my responsibly and obligation. It just seems like the mature and responsible thing to do. I can not control everything that happens with my health, but certainly I am responsible for an active standard of self care? And with that, some will feel judgement. There is no good answer I suppose, but to accept that we can not control others, only ourselves. We really are responsible for that.
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Aug 22, 2019 20:51:57 GMT
No I don’t now. I see us as just very different individuals who process things differently. Just recently she decided to see someone about her left over feelings from her childhood and the divorce from my dad...which I think is great. I was simply trying to understand a pattern of inaction on my part and it came to me that a core issue may be my misinterpretation of her suggestions with my identity. I am in the process of exploring that more....but found that to be a really interesting tidbit. You've mentioned that you belong to a spiritual community. Does your faith/religious belief support your attitudes of inaction, supporting a mental process of thinking vs doing? I don't know what your faith is, but many traditions adhere to the principle of reaping what you sow. And many emphasize the idea of taking responsibility for your thoughts and actions in order to be an uplifting influence on yourself and those around you. I'm curious as to whether or not you hold yourself to any such ideas, or if you reject those along with suggestions from fellow humans who also suffer and find ways to overcome it. Does your religious faith offer any encouragement to you in these areas? Do you find any expectation to be burdensome? Do you find yourself to be accountable to any kind of mental or behavioral discipline? It seems to me that negligence of self care would be a moral dilemma to anyone with a spiritual practice. That's just my perspective, you may not agree. You mention thinking and processing as if it somehow the key to your deliverance from your troubles- does that fit with your faith? I am unfamiliar with any western tradition that supports perpetual analysis over right action. Eastern traditions do emphasize analysis of thought because action is seen as arising from thought. I'm sure you are familiar with the concept of Karma, and while you may not subscribe to it, the Western Christian schools do refer to the "Reap what you sow" passages in scripture, it's pretty similar. Does this not encourage you to take right action to take care of yourself even if you do not prefer to do so? It would seem that neglect of appropriate self care would be in opposition to a live lived with the grace you say is important to you. You say that the world is full of judgement, but what kind of judgement is neglect? I think that neglect of self is a negative judgement against the self. Perpetuating thoughts of unworthiness or failure also seems to be a negative judgement against the self. You had asked if what you are saying about thinking makes sense, but to me it does not. That's why I am asking these questions. I am a Christian and for several decades....I felt absolutely horrible about myself, ashamed even that I could not check off the boxes I assumed were required in order to demonstrate my faith. I went through an intense 6 month program trying to get to the root of my issues and additional classes afterwards that have really changed my perspective....it isn’t that we do the work...it is that God does the work inside of us. He makes the change that is then reflected outwardly. It is about spending time with a God in a relationship where God knows who I am, where my weaknesses and strengths are. i remember taking an attachment test and discovered I was FA with DA tendencies with Jesus. It was this whole...I am good over here....which is so different from how I am on these boards. I had this image in class one day while we were practicing quieting our nervous system....Jesus and I were on a hill watching a sun set. There were no words spoken but I was left with this feeling that He was happy to be with me and he was not pressed for time...it was a really nice image and I remember thinking afterwards that that was exactly what I needed. No pressure, no obligation...just sitting and enjoying time together with someone who enjoyed spending time with me. My therapist and I actually have worked through several of my roadblocks...from permission to eat whatever I want...I actually had a huge issue with giving myself permission to “explore” foods, being comfortable eating at a restaurant by myself....I was so terrified about what other people would think of me, dealing with my relationship with “things”.....that things do not define me, that my identity is separate....we made some progress on health....getting basic exams prioritized....but I still haven’t scheduled some appts...eye exam, women’s wellness...and it is almost September. My dad has Parkinson’s and I have been wanting to set up an apt with a neurologist...but again....procrastinating. I read a quote where someone said suffering lies in our attachments...so I am trying to figure out what I am attaching to that keeps me mired in mental blocks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 21:10:40 GMT
tnr9 , that gives a lot of perspective! You have done a lot of work and obviously made progress. ❤️ It's interesting to understand your attachment style to your faith!
|
|