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Post by stu on Sept 21, 2019 23:17:49 GMT
For the last 2 days I have been in full “missing B” mode...I just let myself go there without judgement. instead of wanting him to be happy, I found myself wishing his relationship would “fail”....either due to his ADHD, his FA, his use of alcohol. I did not want to see him succeed with this relationship....which is just so counter to how I truly want to view him. If I love him....I should love him irrespective of whether he loves me back....but I am owning that I am really far from that. I just wanted to own this rather ugly side today. That's a totally normal human emotion and happens for everyone. It's not ugly, and it's not a defining thing about you. Just certain thoughts because of the pain you went through and seeing them looking happy now. But I promise that it's never what It looks on the outside as well . You also mentioned having a hard time moving on until you fall for someone else. I think most people are that same way as well. That's certainly the case for me.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 22, 2019 2:53:32 GMT
Lol Violets, you go girl!! <3 Honestly wasn't sure what to make of that message. Tnr9, Did you interpret the message as `I noticed you haven't been around your community because of me, its safe to go back' or as him trying to provoke some contact from you (by letting you know he's abandoning you for good)? I couldn't quite tell? Have you been avoiding community altogether, or just him? It was just him telling me it is ok for me to go back to the community...no toe dipping. Yes, I have not attended for over a year...I found it to be too painful to attend with him there.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 22, 2019 2:55:16 GMT
he basically said he was attending a different bible study and as such, would likely not be attending the community group that he and I met at. Are you going to start attending your community group again? I know it meant a lot to you, and perhaps you can reconnect with your friends there if you stopped seeing them regularly. I don’t know if I will go back...so much time has passed and there are so many memories with B there,....
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 22, 2019 3:00:39 GMT
I agree with your attitude, that noone is to blame, and you each played your own part. When I said `you endured B', what I meant is you endured a situation that was extremely painful, for years. You had been in a relationship with B, and on an emotional level you remained lovers long after the safety of that relationship ended. You were downgraded, and he enjoyed the benefits of you being his lover right on up until he replaced you. It was very convenient for B, and very painful for you. B's part in this is he continued to use your feelings for him for sex and attention, long after he decided he didn't want to be your partner. Your part in this is you are a vulnerable person who allowed that to happen, because it was too painful for you to protect yourself by ending contact. Ok...I need to correct something here,..there was no post breakup sex. The first time we saw each other after the breakup there was some cuddling....but he confessed (in an email) that he meant to Jeep it just friends and slipped up. There have been mixed signals....in June...while we were hanging out...he said he liked to be pet...as in have his legs rubbed...and he was really happy when I did that....in August, he said I did not need to rub his legs...and he acted really standoffish....this is what I have been dealing with...mixed signals.....and hope....always hope on my part.
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Post by anne12 on Sept 22, 2019 3:00:53 GMT
tnr9 What's up with this "I should be able to love him and ...."? Could it be that this is just a story you are telling yourself to keep you stuck ? Did you get challenged in your ability to receive love ect with this guy (B)? I think this is important to be aware of - expecially as a woman (the feminine/masculine danse) Also this can be important for you in the future - to distinguish between a type A and a type B man. An A person drains You, takes from your fridge, does not give anything to your life. IT Can take some time before You Will notise This. A B person fills Up your fridge, expands your life, sees the beauty in You and makes your life feel Better. You will not get challenged by an unhealthy man. www.understandmen.com/qc_workshop/Unhealthy_Men_the_Secrets_of_Early_Detection_PAXProgramsInc_032515.mp3There are some signs, but they are not bulletproof. Many people know how to behave in the beginning and therefore do not reveal these things in the first period in which they "do their utmost". It is among other things - if the other only talks about himself, and never asks you any questions. - if they let you pay at least half of the bill. As a woman, it is common for the man to pay more than half, since in general, despite gender equality, we as Woman still are behind men's wages. - if they do not check in with you, what you want (although it may be nice that the other person takes the initiative) - does the other person listen to the little things you mention, that you like? He shows this by buying or arranging these little things for you. - Is he on the cellphone while you're together - or can he prioritize that now IT is YOUR time? - is he kind and generous to others? - does he talk lovingly / kindly about his family and friends?
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 22, 2019 3:06:49 GMT
tnr9 What's up with this "I should be able to love him and ...."? Could it be that this is just a story you are telling yourself to keep you stuck ? Did you get challenged in your ability to receive love ect with this guy (B)? I think this is important to be aware of - expecially as a woman (the feminine/masculine danse) Also this can be important for you in the future - to distinguish between a type A and a type B man. An A person drains You, takes from your fridge, does not give anything to your life. IT Can take some time before You Will notise This. A B person fills Up your fridge, expands your life, sees the beauty in You and makes your life feel Better. You will not get challenged by an unhealthy man. www.understandmen.com/qc_workshop/Unhealthy_Men_the_Secrets_of_Early_Detection_PAXProgramsInc_032515.mp3There are some signs, but they are not bulletproof. Many people know how to behave in the beginning and therefore do not reveal these things in the first period in which they "do their utmost". It is among other things - if the other only talks about himself, and never asks you any questions. He asked questions... - if they let you pay at least half of the bill. As a woman, it is common for the man to pay more than half, since in general, despite gender equality, we as Woman still are behind men's wages. I paid for most snacks, dinners out etc....because I made more money. - if they do not check in with you, what you want (although it may be nice that the other person takes the initiative) I would do most of the checking in.... - does the other person listen to the little things you mention, that you like? He shows this by buying or arranging these little things for you. He did not have money to buy me things... - Is he on the cellphone while you're together - or can he prioritize that now IT is YOUR time? Thankfully B really excelled at this.... - is he kind and generous to others? Yes. - does he talk lovingly / kindly about his family and friends? No...very judgmental about his family and friends.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 22, 2019 3:10:23 GMT
I mean this is the kindest most girl talk way ever. But GIRRRRLLLLLLL, NO. He didn't message you because he wanted to bad to tell you about church. He is dipping that toe in. Please please don't respond right away. And furthermore, I am sure B is just like the rest of us, trying to find a way to get through life but THESE. WERE. NOT. ALL. YOUR. ISSUES. You are human. You are kind. You are amazing. You are beautiful. You are worthy just how you are. Issues and ALL. It's awesome that you are doing the work and gaining insight to heal. But people that love you, love you regardless of whatever dysfunctional way you adapted to survive and protect yourself. B absolutely owns behavior and actions that co-created this interaction. PS. Don't respond. I will airmail you a cupcake! Thank you so much for your kind words....he is not dipping his toe....he is simply letting me know I can attend the group again because he will not be there. B has a girlfriend....he is moved on....dipping his toe would imply he has feelings for me....this was just a matter a fact message.
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Post by serenity on Sept 22, 2019 3:25:11 GMT
Thanks for explaining the post breakup more fully tnr9. i was wondering, how long did you manage to have no contact after the breakup? Do you possibly think it just wasn't enough time? Or is it that he's someone you can't feel `platonic friendship feelings' for at all? Your posts made me think of an ex that I had when i was around 20, who was so much a hero of mine...for his values, his intelligence, his dedication to community, his positive and encouraging nature. So many things. I was absolutely devastated when we broke up And yet 2 decades later, I consider him one of my best friends and more than that, he's one of my greatest fans who has helped me in all kinds of ways in life, from helping me get the best jobs I've had (via his connections), helping me through bad breakups, introducing me to new friends and even good investment opportunities. He still can't make relationships work, though he had two semi long terms girlfreinds after me, and a marriage with kids, that ended when she left him. The best thing about taking a period of NC after our breakup and getting over him, was it was the only way for him to include me in his life when he had serious relationships with other women. The women would have not allowed it if I was still love struck, and i would have truly lost him for good. And perhaps ironically, I am better freinds with his three subsequent girlfreinds/wife than him. All i'm saying is B may become a lifelong freind of yours. And you never know, with a period of distance you may reconnect in future.
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 22, 2019 4:33:33 GMT
For the last 2 days I have been in full “missing B” mode...I just let myself go there without judgement. instead of wanting him to be happy, I found myself wishing his relationship would “fail”....either due to his ADHD, his FA, his use of alcohol. I did not want to see him succeed with this relationship....which is just so counter to how I truly want to view him. If I love him....I should love him irrespective of whether he loves me back....but I am owning that I am really far from that. I just wanted to own this rather ugly side today. I'm very proud of you. I have watched you make enormous progress in the past year. Did you ever think you would see the day when you would unfriend/unfollow him on social media?? And you're doing so well at letting yourself feel uncomfortable feelings and not judging yourself or battling it. I can relate to how you're feeling. For me I think it might be because it feels like an insult if my exes couldn't bring themselves to face their avoidance/issues when with me but are suddenly able to with the next person. It's like it's saying something about my worth. So if their next relationship fails then it's a relief, it tells me it wasn't about me and they do this with every woman. One way that I sometimes like to flip the script is by imagining that I am part of the reason that an ex was able to have a good relationship after me, that maybe he learned something from his experience with me, that maybe he regretted what happened and vowed to try harder with the next person. I mean this is the kindest most girl talk way ever. But GIRRRRLLLLLLL, NO. He didn't message you because he wanted to bad to tell you about church. He is dipping that toe in. Please please don't respond right away. And furthermore, I am sure B is just like the rest of us, trying to find a way to get through life but THESE. WERE. NOT. ALL. YOUR. ISSUES. You are human. You are kind. You are amazing. You are beautiful. You are worthy just how you are. Issues and ALL. It's awesome that you are doing the work and gaining insight to heal. But people that love you, love you regardless of whatever dysfunctional way you adapted to survive and protect yourself. B absolutely owns behavior and actions that co-created this interaction. PS. Don't respond. I will airmail you a cupcake! While I like the general sentiments of your post, I also want to point out that it can be unhelpful if we read too much into the act of someone contacting us. I can just imagine if any of my exes are AP them thinking I am texting them to test the waters or reignite things when really I just wanted to tell them something, there wasn't more to it. Personally I think it might be helpful to actually err on the side of taking things at face value even if there IS a chance that the person has some ulterior motive.
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 22, 2019 9:00:13 GMT
tnr9 What's up with this "I should be able to love him and ...."? Could it be that this is just a story you are telling yourself to keep you stuck ? Did you get challenged in your ability to receive love ect with this guy (B)? I think this is important to be aware of - expecially as a woman (the feminine/masculine danse) Also this can be important for you in the future - to distinguish between a type A and a type B man. An A person drains You, takes from your fridge, does not give anything to your life. IT Can take some time before You Will notise This. A B person fills Up your fridge, expands your life, sees the beauty in You and makes your life feel Better. You will not get challenged by an unhealthy man. www.understandmen.com/qc_workshop/Unhealthy_Men_the_Secrets_of_Early_Detection_PAXProgramsInc_032515.mp3There are some signs, but they are not bulletproof. Many people know how to behave in the beginning and therefore do not reveal these things in the first period in which they "do their utmost". It is among other things - if the other only talks about himself, and never asks you any questions. - if they let you pay at least half of the bill. As a woman, it is common for the man to pay more than half, since in general, despite gender equality, we as Woman still are behind men's wages. - if they do not check in with you, what you want (although it may be nice that the other person takes the initiative) - does the other person listen to the little things you mention, that you like? He shows this by buying or arranging these little things for you. - Is he on the cellphone while you're together - or can he prioritize that now IT is YOUR time? - is he kind and generous to others? - does he talk lovingly / kindly about his family and friends? Great podcast, thanks for sharing that. It was very helpful in feeling more convinced that my partner is mostly a good healthy man! It was also a good reminder that I should not expect a man to act like I would. The only thing I disagreed with was that Armstrong says that the "emotionally unavailable" man is a myth and that it's only a result of women making a man feel unsafe about sharing his emotions. I think sometimes a man is just closed off, perhaps he is avoidant or not wanting to get close with someone for other reasons, and that no woman could make him emotionally available.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 22, 2019 11:39:35 GMT
Thanks for explaining the post breakup more fully tnr9. i was wondering, how long did you manage to have no contact after the breakup? Do you possibly think it just wasn't enough time? Or is it that he's someone you can't feel `platonic friendship feelings' for at all? Your posts made me think of an ex that I had when i was around 20, who was so much a hero of mine...for his values, his intelligence, his dedication to community, his positive and encouraging nature. So many things. I was absolutely devastated when we broke up And yet 2 decades later, I consider him one of my best friends and more than that, he's one of my greatest fans who has helped me in all kinds of ways in life, from helping me get the best jobs I've had (via his connections), helping me through bad breakups, introducing me to new friends and even good investment opportunities. He still can't make relationships work, though he had two semi long terms girlfreinds after me, and a marriage with kids, that ended when she left him. The best thing about taking a period of NC after our breakup and getting over him, was it was the only way for him to include me in his life when he had serious relationships with other women. The women would have not allowed it if I was still love struck, and i would have truly lost him for good. And perhaps ironically, I am better freinds with his three subsequent girlfreinds/wife than him. All i'm saying is B may become a lifelong freind of yours. And you never know, with a period of distance you may reconnect in future. So...I think I need to write out clearly what happened post break up... B left something in my car and texted to come and get that..when he came over, I asked him to not attend the community we had met at. He agreed. starting 3 months later, he asked about hanging out at that community....I told him I was not ready and asked for more time he asked about going to a couple of social events sponsored by the group, and I told him I was not ready and asked for more time after 6 months...I get a text from him that he feels that enough time has passed and he wants to attend the group. Because the group is not mine and I can’t be selfish....I agree....but ask him if I can see him one on one first. I ask him to help me look for a new cat, he agrees to that. He comes over on the agreed upon date, but when I look online, the shelter is closed. He has brought over flowers for my birthday and left overs from his thanksgiving meal....we eat, talk, than we start to fall back into old patterns..,we cuddle, kiss...there is some...physical involvement....but he stops me at one point and says he does not want to get emotionally involved. I am crushed...it feels like the break up all over again. He reaches out later asking about attending the community....although I want to renig I realize that I had made a commitment...so we agree for him to come the first week after winter break. he starts to regularly attend the community again and for 6 months.,,I try to be in the community with him there....but I am leaving feeling jealous of every other woman he sits with and talks to and icry every week. There are a couple of very public crying episodes after community. B and I do have a couple of long talks after the community group. There was one particular time that I was very scared that I had pissed him off so bad that it would destroy our friendship...so I gave him a check to pay towards something he really treasured (he never asked for the check....and he said we were fine before I gave it to him...he thanked me for the $...I said it was a bday gift...not true...it was way more then a bday gift amount,...but I was just relieved he and I were ok) B wrote me in July that he was going to leave the community because he did not want to be selfish and he had noticed I was leaving right after group. I sat down with him and said the issue as mine and not his and as such...he would stay in the community. i then stopped attending the community....and at that point, B and I would occasionally get together for pizza and movie get together. Sometimes he would say things that were mixed messages....so my hope would get activated again....but there were no physical inappropriate behaviors...we would hug a lot, but we always hugged. looking back....I think B was still lonely after the break up....and he was still in his “cuddle buddy” mode....where he enjoyed the physical attention I gave him (let’s just leave it that while we were dating I made sure he was “happy” every time he came over but we did not have sex..you can figure that out)...so he would make comments about missing that and I think if I had offered, he would have been very receptive to that again....but it would have meant we were “again” in different places. The fact that he is all in with someone else...committed to that person in a way he never was with me...makes me very sad, embarrassed and jealous.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 22, 2019 11:45:23 GMT
For the last 2 days I have been in full “missing B” mode...I just let myself go there without judgement. instead of wanting him to be happy, I found myself wishing his relationship would “fail”....either due to his ADHD, his FA, his use of alcohol. I did not want to see him succeed with this relationship....which is just so counter to how I truly want to view him. If I love him....I should love him irrespective of whether he loves me back....but I am owning that I am really far from that. I just wanted to own this rather ugly side today. I'm very proud of you. I have watched you make enormous progress in the past year. Did you ever think you would see the day when you would unfriend/unfollow him on social media?? And you're doing so well at letting yourself feel uncomfortable feelings and not judging yourself or battling it. I can relate to how you're feeling. For me I think it might be because it feels like an insult if my exes couldn't bring themselves to face their avoidance/issues when with me but are suddenly able to with the next person. It's like it's saying something about my worth. So if their next relationship fails then it's a relief, it tells me it wasn't about me and they do this with every woman. One way that I sometimes like to flip the script is by imagining that I am part of the reason that an ex was able to have a good relationship after me, that maybe he learned something from his experience with me, that maybe he regretted what happened and vowed to try harder with the next person. I mean this is the kindest most girl talk way ever. But GIRRRRLLLLLLL, NO. He didn't message you because he wanted to bad to tell you about church. He is dipping that toe in. Please please don't respond right away. And furthermore, I am sure B is just like the rest of us, trying to find a way to get through life but THESE. WERE. NOT. ALL. YOUR. ISSUES. You are human. You are kind. You are amazing. You are beautiful. You are worthy just how you are. Issues and ALL. It's awesome that you are doing the work and gaining insight to heal. But people that love you, love you regardless of whatever dysfunctional way you adapted to survive and protect yourself. B absolutely owns behavior and actions that co-created this interaction. PS. Don't respond. I will airmail you a cupcake! While I like the general sentiments of your post, I also want to point out that it can be unhelpful if we read too much into the act of someone contacting us. I can just imagine if any of my exes are AP them thinking I am texting them to test the waters or reignite things when really I just wanted to tell them something, there wasn't more to it. Personally I think it might be helpful to actually err on the side of taking things at face value even if there IS a chance that the person has some ulterior motive. I think you are correct..it does feel like an insult....and, I was also considering how different I would have behaved if he had taken the steps he took with this new woman. Inviting me to meet friends and family within a month...posting a public statement of being in a relationship.....I think I am also embarrassed because I have held onto hope that I was more then just a physical fling during a rough patch for him. It does not provide me comfort that he matured as a result of being with me...if anything...it just makes me feel used.
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Post by leavethelighton on Oct 5, 2019 23:58:46 GMT
I think there is a difference between thinking uncharitable thoughts and what you'd REALLY choose. Like if a genie came down and offered you the magic power to break the two of them up would you really? If not then you're fine....
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 6, 2019 13:57:57 GMT
I think there is a difference between thinking uncharitable thoughts and what you'd REALLY choose. Like if a genie came down and offered you the magic power to break the two of them up would you really? If not then you're fine.... Yeh...but sometimes I think I would want an option to break them up....then I feel scared and sad because that is not how I as a Christian, am supposed to feel. Then I think...God obviously found me unworthy for B and this girl must be a much better Christian and thus...she is worthy of B. Performance based thoughts are so very hard to let go of and as someone with magical thinking and fear of my own thoughts....it just is worse.
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 6, 2019 14:12:08 GMT
I think there is a difference between thinking uncharitable thoughts and what you'd REALLY choose. Like if a genie came down and offered you the magic power to break the two of them up would you really? If not then you're fine.... just an interesting observation that when I was speaking to my fear regarding my thoughts....I felt a tightness on my neck as if I was chocking.
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