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Post by stu on Oct 21, 2019 8:17:53 GMT
In a recent couple of week events my FA has fully come back to engaging me and trying to get my attention again. I am very confused because she ended up ghosting me for over 7-8 weeks and I never thought I would hear from her again
There were various de activations before but nothing that lasted this long, or with zero communication whatsoever. Even though I had reached out a few times without ever hearing a response. I thought she has completely cut me out.
Not really sure what to do with this now. I spoke with and hung out with her this last week when we saw each other out for a bit. She was extremely rigid and tense but she seemed to calm down when I talked as if things were the same as usual, and just acted very warm with her. I feel she is really scared of reprucussions of her recent ghosting behavior. But I don't feel a need to tell her anything about it, or my feelings.
When I saw her it was obvious her feelings for me were still there, and she was acting out of sorts a lot. But consisntelty trying to get me to talk with her and followed me around, even though I was acting pretty aloof.
Most this started again because the week previous I saw her out and decided to stop being awkward about the fact that everytime she ever saw me out, she tried to act like I wasn't there. And I was tired of doing the whole don't talk to them thing. So I asked her to two step dance. After we did she tried to talk to me longer and asked why I had to leave that but I had to take a friend home, so I told her I had to go but it was good to see her.
This last week again I just asked her to dance once, and after she immediately tried to talk to me even more so I hung out with her for a large part of the night. She brought up some stuff we usually talked about before and just our usual banter together, and had a good time together . Walked her to her car and hugged her goodnight as well. But this whole experience is tripping me out.
I've never had someone ghost me that hard, and then turn around and act like this, and seem as interested as ever in things. I'm just curious what exactly could be going on or what I should do with this.
It was obvious that she had deactivated right before the ghosting and I did very little to cause it. We just got the closest we ever we're together and she got more and more anxious but opened it more and more at the same time. Then finally just shut down. But to a more extreme length then she ever did before.
For a few weeks after before I talked to her again she would see me out but never say a word to me, yet would stare at me a lot of the time and be visually acting extremely anxious. Yet when I did text her a few times, still she never responded.
I feel like she's going to want to talk soon and a serious conversation might come up, so I'm just wondering the best way to go about this? I am not trying to just jump back into things as they were with her. I still really care about her and have strong feelings, but I'm also trying to protect myself from getting hurt again. Im also really shocked that this ended up happening again, because I did not expect her to ever come back again after her last dissappearing act from me. I don't think things could work out unless she was seriously working on herself and self aware. It would just be another situation of getting close again and then the deactivation.
I don't want to go through that again, but I do want to talk to her and see where she is at and how she is feeling. She is self aware, and was seeking help for her challenges but she is still in the pattern of acting things out in the way she recently displayed. I don't want to just cut her out. I can't handle being just a friend with her, but I also don't want to get hurt again. I don't plan on bringing up any serious conversation or getting to vulnerable with her again, unless she initiatied all of that. But I have a strong feeling she is going to try, and I want to be prepared for when that could happen.
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jules
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Post by jules on Oct 21, 2019 9:29:51 GMT
I understand the draw and the interest as you felt something for her but you really want to get back into the ring with someone who is likely going to knock you out when things get good again? After all the forward movement and healing you just did?
I had to realize that unless my FA gets to work with a specialized therapist on his attachment for a significant amount of time this would just be a huge game of round Robin. To my detriment.
I pass. I wish him well but I deserve to receive what I give. Hes out there for me and she's out there for you.
My unsolicited advice is stay strong and true to yourself. Ask someone else to two step.
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Post by stu on Oct 21, 2019 9:55:40 GMT
I understand the draw and the interest as you felt something for her but you really want to get back into the ring with someone who is likely going to knock you out when things get good again? After all the forward movement and healing you just did? I had to realize that unless my FA gets to work with a specialized therapist on his attachment for a significant amount of time this would just be a huge game of round Robin. To my detriment. I pass. I wish him well but I deserve to receive what I give. Hes out there for me and she's out there for you. My unsolicited advice is stay strong and true to yourself. Ask someone else to two step. I don't want to jump back into things with her again thinking things will change without any work being done. I did want to connect with her to have a conversation in the least though. Because after how much time we spent together and how our connection grew, it left a sour taste in my mouth that she just upped and ghosted me for almost two months without any kind of communication at all. I understand though all the fears and insecurities she might be having that caused her to de activate so hard. And why it was so hard for her to communicate. However it seems she is more connected again, so it would be nice to be able to talk in the least to have some kind of amicable talk about what was going on for each of us. In an ideal world, things would feel comfortable enough for me and her that she was doing some serious work on her challenges, as I also continue to work through my own. And she actually wanted to strengthen and grow her relationships at the same time. But in the least I just thought it would be nice to be able to have some kind of acknowledgement together. And as of now if seems she wants to re connect with me in a way like things are the same as usual. And it feels nice to be able to talk to her like that again, but at the same time. I wont allow myself to just fall back into that, because a lot happened and it isn't something you can just turn a blind eye too. |
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Post by Nefertiti on Oct 21, 2019 9:57:35 GMT
I don't know whether to be happy for you, Stu, that she came back...or be sad about it. Bearing in mind that I am pretty new here and still reeling from all my reading this past weekend. Jeb's books, Attached and various internet sources paint a horrible never-ending cycle of partners being ghosted, downright ignored when bids are made, etc. It is terrible how much angst we go through with our FAs. I don't even think it is healthy for us in the long run. Permanent heartbreak, always afraid of what comes next. Not healthy at all.
I am beginning to think that this thing we do with FAs, this acting patient and as if we have temporary amnesia about what happened may not in fact be the best way to deal with things. I am seriously beginning to understand the advice given to me when I posted my own thread. Basically leave. Make the person your friend if you want to because you still care for him/her. But get out of the vicious cycle of emotional deprivation. I am even wondering if finding out about FAs has somehow contributed to my inability to cut my bf off completely. Everything he does now just pisses me off, to be honest. I sometimes wish that I hadn't been intuitive enough to sense that there was an issue beyond him just being an a**hole, a bad bf. I would have told him off and erased him for my life for completely disrespecting me and our friendship. Because avoidant or not, this stuff really tops the charts in terms of disrespect. Yep, I am angry today and have been for a long time. I am also sad about the situation. But it is what it is. I can't even yell at him about it and get the relief of having had my say.
Your FA is looking for intimacy. She is craving intimacy. And she knows that you care for her. So she is coming back for some more. On her own terms. How can you prepare for that? I honestly do not think you can. Not without getting hurt again.
She knows what she did to you. On some level, she knows that she hurt you. But here is the thing. From everything that I have read, she is clueless about the extent to which she hurt you. She cannot empathise enough to know the anguish she keeps putting you through. So she will do it again and again and again. Even if you two were to get married. The stories of people married to avoidants are really sad. Many partners of avoidants are struggling with what is essentially a superficial and unfulfilling relationship. Annoyingly, you never really know how bad it is until you go through therapy. Finding a therapist who understands the issue is difficult. Then you may find out that the avoidance is but a symptom of something far more complicated. That it is co-morbid. We are basically dealing with the tip of the iceberg. There may be a lot more beneath the surface. That is the conclusion I came to after spending hours and hours poring over testimonies, books including a medical text from the 70s. I was so desperate to find a solution. A way forward. Some clue from someone, anyone who managed to navigate this situation and get to a better place. I found nothing concrete.
I am sorry that this is not of much help. Like you, I am wondering how to minimise the damage this relationship keeps doing to me. Why? Simply because I don't want to cut my FA bf off. A quagmire that I have created and continue to help exist. A quagmire that hurts me way more than it hurts him...clearly. There is something wrong with that and I am getting to the point when I just give it all up. Permanently.
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jules
Full Member
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Post by jules on Oct 21, 2019 11:40:16 GMT
"I am beginning to think that this thing we do with FAs, this acting patient and as if we have temporary amnesia about what happened may not in fact be the best way to deal with things."
It is enabling it to continue. Zero ramifications for contuously behaving in this manner.
I get it is not malicious, but it is hurtful none the less. And again, if they are not actively working on therapy it is not going to improve.
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Post by Nefertiti on Oct 21, 2019 13:53:14 GMT
"I am beginning to think that this thing we do with FAs, this acting patient and as if we have temporary amnesia about what happened may not in fact be the best way to deal with things." It is enabling it to continue. Zero ramifications for contuously behaving in this manner. I get it is not malicious, but it is hurtful none the less. And again, if they are not actively working on therapy it is not going to improve. I agree. It is enabling. And there is no end in sight. I am thinking that I need to just be me. Not contort myself into someone else. Someone unrecognisable. Just lay things out as I see them. Lovingly, maybe with a bit more caution than I would normally have. Say my piece and say it all. Let the chips fall where they may. All I have to do now is wait for him to come back..again. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 21, 2019 16:50:41 GMT
I feel like she's going to want to talk soon and a serious conversation might come up, so I'm just wondering the best way to go about this? I don't plan on bringing up any serious conversation or getting to vulnerable with her again, unless she initiatied all of that. But I have a strong feeling she is going to try, and I want to be prepared for when that could happen. Why do you think she's going to bring this up? Has she brought up heavy topics like this and demonstrated any real, consistent, lasting change in her behavior after initiating a heart to heart all on her own in the past? I haven't ever had avoidants do that after major deactivations unless I pushed the issue. They would possibly want to reengage and be friends with questionable boundaries, but it may be your projection to think she'd want to have a heart to heart about what happened. If you're lucky, you might get an apology and then triggered defensiveness if you gently push the conversation to be a deeper discussion. Also, why put so much emotional effort into planning this with someone who hurt you badly that you can't trust enough to be vulnerable with? If you want to feel better and more balanced within yourself about what happened, less anxious after the pain and disrespect, that's got to come from inside and how you feel about yourself. She can't do anything right now that's going to externally provide that for you, and without her own work isn't capable of doing it anyway. |
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Post by stu on Oct 21, 2019 19:39:53 GMT
I feel like she's going to want to talk soon and a serious conversation might come up, so I'm just wondering the best way to go about this? I don't plan on bringing up any serious conversation or getting to vulnerable with her again, unless she initiatied all of that. But I have a strong feeling she is going to try, and I want to be prepared for when that could happen. Why do you think she's going to bring this up? Has she brought up heavy topics like this and demonstrated any real, consistent, lasting change in her behavior after initiating a heart to heart all on her own in the past? I haven't ever had avoidants do that after major deactivations unless I pushed the issue. They would possibly want to reengage and be friends with questionable boundaries, but it may be your projection to think she'd want to have a heart to heart about what happened. If you're lucky, you might get an apology and then triggered defensiveness if you gently push the conversation to be a deeper discussion. Also, why put so much emotional effort into planning this with someone who hurt you badly that you can't trust enough to be vulnerable with? If you want to feel better and more balanced within yourself about what happened, less anxious after the pain and disrespect, that's got to come from inside and how you feel about yourself. She can't do anything right now that's going to externally provide that for you, and without her own work isn't capable of doing it anyway. She has brought up topics like this before when we has some negative stuff happen between us in the past. At one point I actually stopped talking to her completely for over 6 weeks because of certain reasons, and she reached out and wanted to talk about it and apologized and made a geniune effort to address those things. I'm not really trying to heal anything inside myself from talking to her or wanting some kind of validation from her. I just wanted to conclude things on a good note if we did that, or if she's serious about things to see if she is trying to seriously work on herself and is interested in growing her relationships. I'm of course well aware that things would never change unless she was. So I do not plan to jump back into anything , and will just continue to keep my distance unless she is doing those things. I posted here about the experience because I was shocked and surprised she is even doing all of this. Because she completely ceased all contact for almost two months and right after we had finally built a very strong and deeper connection and bond. Of course it was extremely rude attachment issues or not for her to do that, and I don't plan on engaging with her and trying to put hurtful behaviors to the back of my head. I just wanted to see if there was a better way of communicating with her, If she did have certain intentions right now that would be in the direction of trying to connect with me. |
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Post by iz42 on Oct 21, 2019 21:20:40 GMT
I understand that it seems surprising for her to come back after so much time had passed, but that is textbook FA. I don’t think there’s anything you can do or say right now that will guarantee that she won’t do it again. If you’re going to engage with her, you’ll probably want to set some strong boundaries. And why not let her know that she hurt you?
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Post by stu on Oct 21, 2019 21:36:26 GMT
I understand that it seems surprising for her to come back after so much time had passed, but that is textbook FA. I don’t think there’s anything you can do or say right now that will guarantee that she won’t do it again. If you’re going to engage with her, you’ll probably want to set some strong boundaries. And why not let her know that she hurt you? True it's just never been that severe before. I don't expect it not to happen again, hence me only letting myself get attached more if she's truly working on herself and trying to grow her relationships. As of now I feel a comfortable distance for myself that I don't want to break unless she genuinely is intentional on working through things seriously. As of now I don't know where she's at other then trying to engage me again. I don't feel the need to talk about anything with her because I'm not close with her right now and had those conversations a 100 times. Feels like beating a deadhorse at this point. Hence I want to keep the boundaries I have now unless she pushes for things and opens that dialogue herself. |
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Post by serenity on Oct 21, 2019 21:39:49 GMT
Hi Stu, Thank you for the update; it seems like your instincts about her being FA were spot on. Its very sad that now you're in a position of knowing she'll hurt you all over again if you reconnect  I think you have the right approach in mind, of keeping a lot of distance. But be wary of the hooks that drag you back into the toxic cycle. It seems like intimate conversations and dancing are hooks for you, so try to cut those things out for now. The girl broke your heart and hurt you very much; there's every indication that she will do it again. You can't trust her not to hurt you, and if you just take her back after all that, you're showing her that ghosting you is just fine. Stu it can get a lot worse. The more you invest, the more painful the disappearances feel. So far she has demonstrated that she will create distance by flirting with other guys, and ghost you for months. As painful as these are, the distancing strategies can be anything they know will cause you pain. Savage attacks on your self worth. Cheating. Ignoring you. Fading and breadcrumbing for months. Ghosting right after a period of intimacy. You can never tell how the deactivation will happen next, only that they will happen, and probably closeness and good times will trigger it. All I can recommend is each time you interact with her, ask yourself, can I trust this person? If the answer is no, stay true to your real feelings, and protect yourself. |
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Post by stu on Oct 21, 2019 21:44:26 GMT
I struggled when my FA sent me a long email after blocking me and disappearing for a time. I decided to not answer. His email was all about himself, and I'm certain he was looking for emotional support from me. There was no desire nor effort to redress things that happened between us, though he apologized, but those words (without actions) really mean nothing. I have said before with men "I just want to be friends;" "I want to leave things on a good note" etc etc. Really, it's because I'm still attached and have feelings. If I could just have ONE MORE contact, ONE more conversation, I will feel better and can walk away....but then you will want another, and another. IF you are deciding to take care of yourself and not re-engage with her, you will have to cut contact. That is the only way to detach. And if she is showing no signs of actions of working on herself but is only coming back for support from you, there is no end in site to the cycle. It's not easy to make these decisions. I still think about responding to him in some form, and it's been over two months since he emailed me, but it is really futile on my end, and I'm trying to accept that and see him differently. I get that, I will say my FA is pretty self aware and made an honest effort to address issues that happened between us before. Her actions as well as her words. I agree though. I do still have an attachment and soft spot for her. Me wanting one more conversation could be a sense of wanting more connection with her over all. On the flip side it just feels immature to go from being very close and intimate with someone to pretending they no longer exist and completely ignoring them if I see them out though. We have a lot of mutual friends and the same social circle. A conversation about what's up with things makes all that easier socially and less awkward as well. This is someone I see out and about at least once a week. I have no idea her intentions right now either. But I agree. If I fully want to move on I probbaly need to cease all contact completely and stop going the places we both frequent together as well. I'd just rather talk things through together then not before doing that. She tried ignoring me for two months but apparently couldn't keep that up for long. I think it's just healthier to communicate together to have things be more amicable in whatever comes out of that, is my thought. |
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Post by stu on Oct 21, 2019 21:50:41 GMT
Hi Stu, Thank you for the update; it seems like your instincts about her being FA were spot on. Its very sad that now you're in a position of knowing she'll hurt you all over again if you reconnect I think you have the right approach in mind, of keeping a lot of distance. But be wary of the hooks that drag you back into the toxic cycle. It seems like intimate conversations and dancing are hooks for you, so try to cut those things out for now. The girl broke your heart and hurt you very much; there's every indication that she will do it again. You can't trust her not to hurt you, and if you just take her back after all that, you're showing her that ghosting you is just fine. Stu it can get a lot worse. The more you invest, the more painful the disappearances feel. So far she has demonstrated that she will create distance by flirting with other guys, and ghost you for months. As painful as these are, the distancing strategies can be anything they know will cause you pain. Savage attacks on your self worth. Cheating. Ignoring you. Fading and breadcrumbing for months. Ghosting right after a period of intimacy. You can never tell how the deactivation will happen next, only that they will happen, and probably closeness and good times will trigger it. All I can recommend is each time you interact with her, ask yourself, can I trust this person? If the answer is no, stay true to your real feelings, and protect yourself. You are absolutely right. And that's why I'm very leary and keeping my distance and not allowing myself to get hooked back in. I never confirmed if she was flirting with other guys in front of me. Because it could have been a friend or who knows, but I was going to bring that up to her if she tried to talk to me about things again. I would never try and seriously date someone who would flirt with other dudes in front of my face, that's beyond off putting to me and a complete turn off. But I don't feel need to talk about anything with her if she doesn't try and open a conversation herself, no point since I'm not letting myself get close again without her doing that anyways. And I'm really not interested in getting dragged around again from someone who isn't getting a proper hold and accountability of their personal issues. So there isn't any going back from me unless she directly stated she wanted to have a heart to heart or serious conversation herself and put in all the effort for that. Because at this point I don't have anything I need or want to do otherwise. And feel very much in control of my emotions as well. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 21, 2019 22:04:40 GMT
stu, it's possible to eventually still be friends if you care about her, but I don't think enough time has passed yet based on your concerns. As encouragement, I've never had a "returning" FA who rejected my much later bids for friendship if they came back before I was healed enough to handle it and told them I care but needed more time. I had to hold down the boundaries to get the space I needed and couldn't just trust them to mind what I said when they were in a pull state, but I was respectful both during breakups (these cases were all me getting dumped) and when I'd have to create space, so they weren't "mad" that I'd pulled away from that in the first place. They were just happy when eventually I reconnected once I was ready, even if it took months and months and months. So what I'm trying to say is, you don't have to make the decision that you have to be friends right now just because she's being warmer. It's not the be-all end-all if you wait until YOU'RE ready and are authentic to your needs in that way. This is definitely a typical FA cycle move. You can communicate and be respectful to the both of you, be on good terms, but also protect yourself without doing the guesswork figuring out what she's "ready" for.
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Post by serenity on Oct 21, 2019 22:12:16 GMT
I'm in two minds about NC versus low contact as well. My ex works with me and to have NC would mean avoiding mutual friends for some months, and looking for a new job.
In the first few weeks of us breaking up, I wanted very badly to leave my job. His behaviour ranged from snubbing me, then a public apology for his abusive outburst in front of important colleagues, then giving me a gift publicly (all this for managing his public image, i expect), to seeking me out to talk here and there. It did really feel so horrible.
Its been hard. lately, the small amount of non-intimate contact he makes leaves me feeling a bit sad, but it also feels soothing to me...I think honestly the interactions have felt more like tapering off a drug, than receiving a full hit each time? I don't reach out any more and he's too fearful to make much effort himself, beyond those few hoovering attempts. I'm just going to keep backing off and trying to pluck the love-fog from my brain.
Its been about a month, its still hard. But I do feel more clear headed and more determined each day, even though there is low contact.
I wouldn't go dancing or somewhere to have a private intimate conversation with him though! I would expect I'll be somewhat vulnerable for 3-6 months and I'm going to protect myself hard.
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