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Post by kittygirl on Dec 7, 2019 18:37:18 GMT
Hello all. I have a question and I apologize ahead of time if this has already been tackled (I spend my time over in the FA threads which feels like "the other side of the classroom" and I don't know anyone over here ha). But I am wondering if you guys are aware if attachment issues can develop due to traumatic adult relationships? I have a very close friend (woman) who is highly DA and is now really trying her best to be in a LTR but is struggling heavily. She knows she is avoidant, and she is currently doing all the classic "fault finding" with her current partner (who is a wonderful man and treats her so well-UGH!). Her latest thing was "I had a conversation with him that we really need a deeper connection" to which I asked her "ok but what does that even mean to you?" and she doesn't even know how to answer. Classic.
But whats interesting is that she regularly references back to her last serious relationship (which was 5 years ago) with a highly toxic and abusive man. She said to me just yesterday "I am so afraid of things going bad, that i will be suffocated, that he will manipulate me and i will manipulate him". So in other words, feeling trapped and afraid like her last (horrible) relationship. What I guess I am confused about is I have known her since we were 13 years old. I practically lived at her house growing up. Her parents were truly awesome. They weren't neglectful, emotionally abusive, cruel or anything even remotely within this realm. So my inclination is that either a) my perception was wrong about her childhood situation and it actually WAS bad or b) this has developed in her adult life due to relationship trauma (her first high school boyfriend was also abusive). BUT here is where i guess I get confused-literally all the research (primary literature etc) suggests that attachment styles develop FROM CARETAKERS. This is very much an issue of not developing emotional regulation during formative years and that is what shapes these adult relationships (and this is very specifically a caretaker issue). I know my FA friend fits this model to a t. His issues were 100% caused by childhood trauma (albeit reinforced through abusive adult relationships).
So my question is: can someone develop an attachment issue later in life? If so, then is what we think about the importance of the "caregiver-only" source of attachment issues wrong? Should we be reshaping how we think about these as being more of a lifelong journey?
Hope this makes sense. I'm just curious
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Post by happyidiot on Dec 7, 2019 21:12:53 GMT
kittygirlIt is entirely possible that your perception of someone’s parents could give you little clue as to whether their personalities/parenting skills when their child was young could have contributed to the kid developing an insecure attachment style. Of my friends who are DA, their parents seem perfectly nice but were just not very emotionally available to them, in subtle ways. The parents of a DA often just didn’t meet their child’s emotional needs, so it’s not always so clear like it might be with many FAs who had scary parents. Furthermore, even straight up narcissistic abusive parents, including mine (I’m FA) can appear nice to an outsider. So, I think it’s very hard to tell what someone’s treatment of their child was like from just knowing them casually. Having said that, yes it’s possible for someone’s attachment style to change due to something other than their early caregivers. Straight from Wikipedia: “Yet, around 20–30% of people do experience changes in attachment styles. These changes can occur over periods of weeks or months. The number of people who experience changes in attachment styles, and the short periods over which the changes occur, suggest working models are not rigid personality traits. Why attachment styles change is not well understood. Waters, Weinfield and Hamilton propose that negative life experiences often cause changes in attachment styles.[36] Their proposal is supported by evidence that people who experience negative life events also tend to experience changes in attachment styles.[32][37][38] Davila, Karney and Bradbury have identified four sets of factors that might cause changes in attachment styles: (a) situational events and circumstances, (b) changes in relational schemas, (c) personality variables, and (d) combinations of personality variables and situational events.[39] They conducted a study to see which set of factors best explained changes in attachment styles. The study found that all four sets of factors cause changes in attachment styles. Changes in attachment styles are complex and depend on multiple factors.“
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Post by kittygirl on Dec 7, 2019 22:21:25 GMT
oh WOW! This is so informative thank you. I genuinely had no idea that attachment styles were this plastic and could develop over time (which I guess is stupid on my part come to think of it because if someone can earn secure, they can also "earn DA" or whatever it might be). All the stuff I read or heard has been about the caregiver relationship but this makes sense (as does the idea that you can't really know what someone's family life is unless you are living it)
Thanks for this! Extremely interesting
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 22:45:17 GMT
There is information on how avoidant attachment develops later in life in the healing DA thread in the general forum. Also for FA in the healing FA (unsure if it's in the AP thread).
I have had periods of FA attachment symptoms related to trauma I didn't understand was trauma- I can see looking back. But have settled into DA, working toward secure in SE attachment therapy.
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Post by annieb on Dec 12, 2019 19:11:21 GMT
Hello all. I have a question and I apologize ahead of time if this has already been tackled (I spend my time over in the FA threads which feels like "the other side of the classroom" and I don't know anyone over here ha). But I am wondering if you guys are aware if attachment issues can develop due to traumatic adult relationships? I have a very close friend (woman) who is highly DA and is now really trying her best to be in a LTR but is struggling heavily. She knows she is avoidant, and she is currently doing all the classic "fault finding" with her current partner (who is a wonderful man and treats her so well-UGH!). Her latest thing was "I had a conversation with him that we really need a deeper connection" to which I asked her "ok but what does that even mean to you?" and she doesn't even know how to answer. Classic.
But whats interesting is that she regularly references back to her last serious relationship (which was 5 years ago) with a highly toxic and abusive man. She said to me just yesterday "I am so afraid of things going bad, that i will be suffocated, that he will manipulate me and i will manipulate him". So in other words, feeling trapped and afraid like her last (horrible) relationship. What I guess I am confused about is I have known her since we were 13 years old. I practically lived at her house growing up. Her parents were truly awesome. They weren't neglectful, emotionally abusive, cruel or anything even remotely within this realm. So my inclination is that either a) my perception was wrong about her childhood situation and it actually WAS bad or b) this has developed in her adult life due to relationship trauma (her first high school boyfriend was also abusive). BUT here is where i guess I get confused-literally all the research (primary literature etc) suggests that attachment styles develop FROM CARETAKERS. This is very much an issue of not developing emotional regulation during formative years and that is what shapes these adult relationships (and this is very specifically a caretaker issue). I know my FA friend fits this model to a t. His issues were 100% caused by childhood trauma (albeit reinforced through abusive adult relationships).
So my question is: can someone develop an attachment issue later in life? If so, then is what we think about the importance of the "caregiver-only" source of attachment issues wrong? Should we be reshaping how we think about these as being more of a lifelong journey?
Hope this makes sense. I'm just curious
Hey, even though you lived with them practically, you don't know what happened behind closed doors. Everyone adored my mother and yet behind closed doors she was a psycho alchoholic constantly threatening suicide. |
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Post by kittygirl on Dec 12, 2019 20:49:05 GMT
Thanks to @inmourning for the reply (I must have totally missed that) and yeah annieb I am realizing that more and more. Also, I was talking to our other girlfriend (the 3 of us are best friends) just today and she reminded me that this particular friend dealt with a LOT of financial instability growing up (moving from this house to the next) and she had to start working at a young age to help out. I would bet this also contributed to these issues. Today the friend from the original post and I had a nice heart to heart about her attachment issues and she was very open about how she constantly feels "smothered" and "trapped" (even though she freely admits he gives her tons of space and isn't AP or doing anything that should exacerbate this). She told me she can't help but find all these "little faults" in him she doesn't like, and while she thought she loved him in the beginning of the relationship she no longer is sure. She also said this all started when he suggested they move in together (they have been together for 1 year). Anyway, very painful to see her going through this as i know she would like to not be this way, but today she said "I did fine when I was single for 6 years I think I should maybe go back to that". I don't want to push her as I don't see how that helps but I also wanted to remind her that these all seem very much "attachment" related and not so much related to her not actually having a connection with him. The logical part of her head agrees but her gut instincts tell her otherwise. Very hard |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 22:05:59 GMT
I think you should just stand by your friend and let her make her decisions without trying to guide her. If she isn't in a place to continue this relationship on her own motivation and volition she shouldn't, and ultimately she won't. It takes a very long time to unravel avoidant attachment. She will have to get there on her own. I'm sure you know all that and are a great supportive friend to her, I just know as avoidant, once that chill sets in it is hard to warm it again. I'm only saying this because I didn't see you indicate that she has her own volition to stay in the relationship. She is moving the other direction, from what it sounds like. She may just have more life to live to get to the point of cracking it open.
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Post by faithopelove on Dec 12, 2019 23:15:34 GMT
Yes, according to attachment experts it’s entirely possible someone’s attachment style can develop as a result of a traumatic adult relationship- not just from their childhood.
My DA doesn’t remember his childhood , but he always points to his divorce and his wife cheating on him and leaving him for the reason he has “issues.”
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 23:51:51 GMT
Yes, according to attachment experts it’s entirely possible someone’s attachment style can develop as a result of a traumatic adult relationship- not just from their childhood. My DA doesn’t remember his childhood , but he always points to his divorce and his wife cheating on him and leaving him for the reason he has “issues.” Not remembering his childhood is a good sign of being shaped profoundly by it. |
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Post by faithopelove on Dec 13, 2019 0:07:41 GMT
Yes, according to attachment experts it’s entirely possible someone’s attachment style can develop as a result of a traumatic adult relationship- not just from their childhood. My DA doesn’t remember his childhood , but he always points to his divorce and his wife cheating on him and leaving him for the reason he has “issues.” Not remembering his childhood is a good sign of being shaped profoundly by it. @inmourning - Yes, I’ve read before that not remembering one’s childhood is a sign of abuse or neglect. However, all I know for sure is he says that his divorce caused his pain, so I’m not sure about the childhood causing the DA. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 0:19:51 GMT
Not remembering his childhood is a good sign of being shaped profoundly by it. @inmourning - Yes, I’ve read before that not remembering one’s childhood is a sign of abuse or neglect. However, all I know for sure is he says that his divorce caused his pain, so I’m not sure about the childhood causing the DA. There is something about the accessibility of emotion being needed to form strong memories. I've read it, it makes sense. His divorce might have just woke him up to his pain. Who knows. But could be. |
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Post by amber on Dec 14, 2019 8:17:11 GMT
Our attachement styles develop on the first two years of life. So someone could have great parenting after that period but if anything happened in the first two years of life, it will affect the way they attach to others. Ie if someone was born premature, or sick, or was seperated from their mother after birth or as an infant for any reason, this will massively affect them. They obviously won’t rememebr this, and their parents may not always tell them this as they may not see it as an issue. I work as a midwife and I see infants seperated form others quite often for various reasons. The mothers can be very very good mothers and very well intentioned, but, for example, if a baby spends the first month of its life in an incubator due to being born early, how will this affect its ability to bond? It doesn’t get held as much as it should, and the mother often has to go home and leave the baby in hospital. Massive attachment issues in situations like this. So, don’t always take someone’s situation as you see it at face value. Worth asking your friend if she knows about her situation as an infant, if their was any separation, or postnatal depression etc
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Post by amber on Dec 14, 2019 8:17:22 GMT
Our attachement styles develop on the first two years of life. So someone could have great parenting after that period but if anything happened in the first two years of life, it will affect the way they attach to others. Ie if someone was born premature, or sick, or was seperated from their mother after birth or as an infant for any reason, this will massively affect them. They obviously won’t rememebr this, and their parents may not always tell them this as they may not see it as an issue. I work as a midwife and I see infants seperated form others quite often for various reasons. The mothers can be very very good mothers and very well intentioned, but, for example, if a baby spends the first month of its life in an incubator due to being born early, how will this affect its ability to bond? It doesn’t get held as much as it should, and the mother often has to go home and leave the baby in hospital. Massive attachment issues in situations like this. So, don’t always take someone’s situation as you see it at face value. Worth asking your friend if she knows about her situation as an infant, if their was any separation, or postnatal depression etc
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