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Post by dann98 on Jan 4, 2020 12:37:47 GMT
I really liked her. And then I started fantasizing and projecting and crushing on her for the next three days. And fussing about whether I should add her on social media or not.
All kinds of thoughts came to mind: It's pointless, you have nothing to offer, even if it does work out she'll leave at the first sign of you not being perfect, or what she expected, or man enough or rich enough. Or what will her friends think of me? What if she's going to harm me deliberately? You're older than her and you're the man and it's gonna be so lame expressing needs or showing insecurity around her.
So I finally bit the bullet and added her on social. And then I was anxious about it for about one hour just waiting for a response. It didn't come yet and I've calmed down sort of. I manage to stop the fantasizing now and face reality, not hide away and daydream about what could've been just so I shield myself from my sad and lonely existence. I don't feel the rejection that bad, but it's probably masked by the relief of not turning into something more.
...and if it does, it's gonna be so hard. What I used to do while "dating" is hint and flirt and be around but not really, be ambiguous but fantasizing about it turning out ok in my head. I never called them dates and I never acted like I was going on a date because I was so ashamed. And then they would just leave. And I'd be heartbroken for months. Or they would be interested. And I'd just reject saying hey, I'll respond positively next time, there's no rush. Or just run away.
Anyway, if she's going to accept the request, great. If not, well, that's life. I know it's a small step, but I'm content and I think I've made small progress. Am I ready for dating? Probably not. Will I ever see her again? She's in a group I'm not part of. So I don't know.
There's one thing that's making me sad and guilty and that is I made fun of her car in sort of a dismissive way at the party. It was a pfft kind of remark when I heard about the small horsepower. Just a defense mechanism. But still I feel so bad about it. And I pin the possible rejection on this detail. Why the hell did I do that for? I'm such an idiot.
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Post by mezzer on Jan 4, 2020 14:01:19 GMT
I wont say dont fret because I know you cant help it. But do try and focus on dismissing your worst fears as what they probably are, highly unlikely. If someone likes someone else one poorly executed comment about her car is not going to change that. Try to enjoy the moment and focus on what parts you enjoyed in the evening and leave it at that. I feel for you and can relate to all your struggles. Talk it out with someone you trust to get some rational perspective. But also be prepared to accept that she didn't feel the spark as you did....and that's ok, you still have value and worth
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Post by dann98 on Jan 4, 2020 14:54:04 GMT
I know she probably didn't and there wasn't even a minute we had a one on one convo. It happened to me before, falling head over heels for a stranger and I start projecting all kinds of stuff onto how we'd be the perfect couple because maybe, just maybe, we share some common interests and she seemed cute and agreeable. Also, being kind of socially isolated since my last relationship and feeling lonely plays a part.
I don't think I'm ready for a relationship. The last one started with anxiety, the kind I'm feeling now for this girl.
Then, when I start feeling safe it gets a bit easier, and then, there's a lot of triggers that will make me act clingy. Not necessarily asking for reassurance but the partner can feel it. They can feel me start being submissive, accommodating to the point of denying my own needs, wanting too much of their time, trying too hard to please, helping when not needed, etc.
So I think that for me at this point there are too many triggers that can make me anxious. But I'd also love a relationship and it's tearing me apart.
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Post by mezzer on Jan 4, 2020 15:42:55 GMT
I know all these triggers as part of my own personality, I think its especially hard as a man because it runs counter to how we are supposed to act in women's eyes. There is a lot to be said for nice guys finish last. I feel for you and hope you can find the relationship you want. However I would recommend you spend some time working on yourself so you can feel more secure in who you are. I guess (but dont know) that will make you come across better in your initial meetings with potential partners
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Post by amber on Jan 4, 2020 21:52:38 GMT
It sounds like you have a great level of self awareness around this stuff, and that’s a really amazing start! In My experience many men do not have this level of self insight. Are you in therapy at all? I have AP too so can relate to what you are experiencing...a lot of these feelings and low self esteem stem from childhood...it’s the inner child parts of you who feel these insecurities, not the adult part of you. From what I’ve seen for myself this stuff doesn’t go away without some processing of old emotional pain and working with the nervous system to reprogram the old patterns
Xx
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Post by amber on Jan 4, 2020 21:57:09 GMT
Also, just wanted to add...that in my last long term relationship ship I fully acted out the clingy, needy stuff on my partner. In my recent r/ship I decided I wouldn’t do that, and found ways to self soothe and talk myself out of acting out onto the other, and most of the time I was able to do this. Finding some self soothing strategies and techniques for sitting with these feelings in yourself and not acting them out is a good way to start trying to have a more healthier r/ship with yourself and the other. I am AP so attracted to avoidants, but I have been unfortunately turned off by clingy behaviours in men, so it is something to try to keep in check x
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Post by dann98 on Jan 5, 2020 15:05:02 GMT
Hello Amber. I have been doing EMDR therapy but took the decision to try schema therapy instead, but I feel it's less effective.
I think I will return to EMDR since tackling core childhood issues is at the core of EMDR. I ended EMDR because I am skeptical by nature and a lot of studies prove against its effectiveness beyond the imaginary exposure.
Also I didn't feel much progress during 2 years of therapy but now if I come to think of it, a lot of therapy time has been spent trying to decode a potential fling (ex co-worker) and my ex partner, which obviously was a waste of time.
As for clinginess, I think no partner deserves to be burdened by our personal issues. There's also a sense of guilt trying to date like this, since I think it is an unacceptable flaw I deliberately hide from a potential partner. But this might also be a negative conviction that I must be perfect for someone to love me, or that it's shameful to show vulnerability and fear...
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Post by amber on Jan 6, 2020 3:11:41 GMT
Hello Amber. I have been doing EMDR therapy but took the decision to try schema therapy instead, but I feel it's less effective. I think I will return to EMDR since tackling core childhood issues is at the core of EMDR. I ended EMDR because I am skeptical by nature and a lot of studies prove against its effectiveness beyond the imaginary exposure. Also I didn't feel much progress during 2 years of therapy but now if I come to think of it, a lot of therapy time has been spent trying to decode a potential fling (ex co-worker) and my ex partner, which obviously was a waste of time. As for clinginess, I think no partner deserves to be burdened by our personal issues. There's also a sense of guilt trying to date like this, since I think it is an unacceptable flaw I deliberately hide from a potential partner. But this might also be a negative conviction that I must be perfect for someone to love me, or that it's shameful to show vulnerability and fear... Sounds like you taking responsibility and doing the good work to help yourself. That’s very commendable. Healing is fucking hard hard hard. I havnt tried EMDR but am having some success with internal family systems work..have u heard of this? I understand the conundrum with not wanting to be clingy but having those needy urges nonetheless and feeling like you have to hide them...maybe true vulnerability is being open about those feelings with a safe partner? Something I hang yet mastered but hope to have a safe enough container in my next relationship |
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 6, 2020 14:10:07 GMT
Hello Amber. I have been doing EMDR therapy but took the decision to try schema therapy instead, but I feel it's less effective. I think I will return to EMDR since tackling core childhood issues is at the core of EMDR. I ended EMDR because I am skeptical by nature and a lot of studies prove against its effectiveness beyond the imaginary exposure. Also I didn't feel much progress during 2 years of therapy but now if I come to think of it, a lot of therapy time has been spent trying to decode a potential fling (ex co-worker) and my ex partner, which obviously was a waste of time. As for clinginess, I think no partner deserves to be burdened by our personal issues. There's also a sense of guilt trying to date like this, since I think it is an unacceptable flaw I deliberately hide from a potential partner. But this might also be a negative conviction that I must be perfect for someone to love me, or that it's shameful to show vulnerability and fear... Hey Dann....I am in somatic experiencing (SE) therapy....and I am finding it very useful....based on paying attention to the body and working on core issues from that perspective. I have made huge leaps in awareness, even though I feel at times very resistant to change, I know I am on the right path. Also...just be you....because “you” are worth a relationship that cherishes who you truly are. |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 6, 2020 16:43:46 GMT
As for clinginess, I think no partner deserves to be burdened by our personal issues. There's also a sense of guilt trying to date like this, since I think it is an unacceptable flaw I deliberately hide from a potential partner. But this might also be a negative conviction that I must be perfect for someone to love me, or that it's shameful to show vulnerability and fear... Everything you just described here is part of AP or anxious-leaning FA insecure attachment. Guilt, shame, fear, discomfort with vulnerability, need to be perfect, referring to yourself as an burden with unacceptable flaws. It's very common and very part of the standard insecure attachment style operating system. It generally ties back to a deep fear of abandonment and inability to show up for yourself due to difficulty self-regulating emotions. There's a lack of self-trust and a perceived need for external emotional regulation that develops in those attachment styles. While I agree with you that a partner deserves that you are working on yourself to address the issues that have nothing to do with them but will get in the way of a true intimate and reliable/consistent partnership, this doesn't mean you need to be perfect or that you're a burden. This is your ingrained negative talk track about yourself, and it can be addressed with the right therapist. Is it that the different styles of therapy you're trying haven't been working or is it that you haven't found the right therapist? It can take quite a bit of trial and error. A couple years with very little progress is a long time, and I'd be inclined to agree that that particular situation isn't working for you. Attachment issues do take years to fix, but you should be seeing some changes after 6-9 months if not a bit earlier. I also agree with you that focusing on exes doesn't create progress. It did help me eventually, in that I was able to understand how avoidant attachment styles interacted with secure and AP and it was the missing link for me for attachment theory to make sense, but the healing comes from healing your own trauma while reconditioning your nervous system and rewriting your own narrative (changing your perception from negative self-view to self-acceptance). I do think trying to date before you're deeper into the healing process is a distraction that will continue to trigger you and so do you a disservice for the time being. But not because you're a burden on others, so that is not the story you should be telling yourself. It's because if you keep going on the same way, your past patterns will keep repeating, and you'll keep clicking with other insecurely attached folks (like really attracts like in this way) which will cause more pain. So it has nothing to do with you being a burden but everything to do with you choosing to put yourself and your healing and wellness first. |
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Post by dann98 on Jan 6, 2020 19:44:49 GMT
Hello everyone,
Amber, yes, I have heard about internal family systems, as a matter of fact, my therapist recommended I joined a local family constelation group that has meetings monthly. Yes, that's the key word: safety and safe partner. I opened up easily to my ex partner and was vulnerable and it actually felt good. But it was with the wrong person and to be honest I'm feeling quite terrified of how vulnerable I allowed myself to be around that person. She used that against me and seemed to enjoy it and I still feel disgusted by the whole ordeal. Wrote about it in previous threads, I don't even want to look back on those.
tnr9, heard something about somatic experiencing therapy, care to elaborate? Can the therapy be applied for anxiety, too and more specifically, social anxiety? EMDR also involves paying attention to sensations in your body while revisiting traumatic events. How long have you been in therapy? I am happy you made progress and I hope you have more peace of mind regarding B.
alexandra, I agree about FA traits. However, while I felt safe in a relationship, I was a supportive, empathetic partner that would always show up and cherish his loved one. I never played games and felt comfortable asserting myself having the confidence that the partner has their best intentions at heart. Once that changed and they became distant and cruel somewhat, I became an anxious wreck, passive and submissive and when I noticed they were capitalizing on my fear to boost themselves my whole world came crashing down. So, maybe I got FA traits after the relationship? I was kind of scared of dating, but in the past it was more because of my social anxiety. Now it's a mix of FA and social anxiety. I can feel the terror looming as I imagine myself dating this girl.
I don't know what to say about therapists, I felt wronged by my first therapist (EMDR), due to me relating all my previous relationship's problems and her just finding reason to accommodate instead of just telling it for what it is: abusive. It would have surely helped her encouragement of ending that relationship because I couldn't see light on my own. Also she'd just seem to go with my flow. If I said I was pursuing a married partner, she'd find reason why that's moral. If I'd tell her my wife left me for a married man, it would suddenly become not moral to accommodate my world view so that's inconsistent and I don't like it.
I went to another therapist afterwards and I didn't like the style. I was sitting in an armchair while he was at the opposite end of the room talking from his office desk.
The third one is charging me triple the usual fare and is not saying anything I don't know already. He doesn't interfere much and I will have already thunk about whatever he says before he's saying it, so I was thinking about returning to the first, since she was the most engaged. There's also my distrust in EMDR, I don't know, I'm confused...
I'm curious about like attracts like. I seem to be attracted to better people than a few years ago and I'm less picky. Are we subconsciously telling something to the world around us and healthy people just run away? What's the deal?
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