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Post by lovebunny on Aug 15, 2023 20:58:23 GMT
seeking, "Yes, someone else can help us meet our need for connection. But does it have to be a romantic partner? If you're identifying with the trauma piece about being dissociated, etc, it would seem to make sense to work on trauma - with a practitioner, on your own, with a listening partner, etc, not putting it on the doorstep of a potential lover." --I have friends and acquaintances. I've had therapists. And I do work on this alone. But no, it isn't enough. Or so far, it hasn't been, apparently, as I am not fixed enough to feel like I don't need a r'ship. I understand that people *can* survive without love and sex, it's not a *need* like food, but a drive. In my case, an overdrive! You said, "For me, this is the love addiction piece - I can't feel truly comfortable b/c I'm so activated all the time and I need "x" to soothe me/calm me, etc. and without that, it's like I can barely survive (or regulate my system)." --Yes, that's what it feels like. I cannot logic my way out of it. Body stuff helps some, visualization or imagination exercises help some. Writing about it purges it some. Distraction is hit-or-miss. "Being alone when you're with a partner and wanting "alone time" is very different than being alone and regulating yourself." Good point. But even when I manage to regulate myself emotionally through exercise, visualization, journal-writing or reaching out, the bigger picture of having no one to help with bills or chores, or to support me if I get hurt or sick, and the lack of consistent contact with anyone attuned to me is still an issue. So the love addiction is one thing, plus the lack of in-person support is real. People aren't meant to go it alone in this world, this economy, and though maybe I'm not as alone as some, I'm also sensitive to loneliness due to an empty bucket childhood. "If this were alcohol, it would be like you're saying, "yes, I have pain so I need to drink." That's how I'm looking at it and I don't think I'm helping. I'm saying, "Yes, I have pain, and I need to heal." And you're saying, "yes, I have childhood this, and loneliness, and therefore I need to find a partner." Those are two different things. --Possibly I don't have as much faith in therapy etc as you do. I think I'm realistic that a partner is my only shot at having a supportive family, which would be healing. It's not that I want a partner so I don't have to do the internal work. Likewise, the internal work can't replace the real-life benefits of having a supportive partner. Friends are great, but maybe I don't let mine in close enough. I don't talk to any of them every day. My friends are for fun and companionship and occasional emotional support, maybe a favor once in while. I don't expect them to meet needs that are only appropriate for a partner. And of course, no r'ship but a romantic one allows for certain kinds of touching. I don't feel like a compression blanket is quite the same (but I was thinking of getting one, how are they during hot flashes? lol.) So yes, it's a behavioral addiction, not a substance. Like food....food is good, and you shouldn't try to stay away from food, but your r'ship to food can be problematic. Love is good, and I shouldn't avoid it, but my r'ship to love is problematic. It's been discussed on other threads, I think. Untangling attachment disorder from the normal human need/drive for support from mate and/or family.
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Post by cherrycola on Aug 15, 2023 21:30:05 GMT
I don't think your longing to be in a relationship is unhealthy or necessarily a sign of a love addiction. I've known love addicts and they don't tend to have any gaps and zero boundaries. Their relationships are codependent and enmeshed. Additionally certain relational issues can only be resolved relationally. Some of this work can be done with ourselves (inner child) some with a therapist, some with good friends. But some of it will only come forward in close intimate relationships. Pete Walkers book on PTSD goes over this a bit. It's a great read. I think your longing and rumination is not abnormal for the type of growth you are trying to do. I don't disagree with introvert about sometimes you need a big change, but sometimes we just need to hurry up and be patient. In the meantime my trauma counsellor told me to be mindful of when people respond to me positively. So if I make a bid for connection and give them a compliment or a joke or a hug. If they respond positivity to take notice of that. That when I reach out people respond with love. |
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Post by seeking on Aug 16, 2023 1:35:12 GMT
Agree with introvert here. I haven't been in a serious relationship in 7 years. I dated. And I was desperate most of that time. And I felt like my world revolved around having a partner, and much as anyone tried to tell me the advice I'm giving now, I didn't listen. It didn't even make sense. "We all NEEEEEED people." That's what I would think. But my version of needing and a healthy version of needing (which I know now, thankfully) were way way different.
I was a hungry ghost, an empty vessel. I was living in pure unaware survival mode -- like a constant threatened animal.
Part of the reason I wasn't with anyone for that long was due to major insane life stuff - including court, narc abuse, a very sick child, and moving and leaving behind everything we owned, changing schools, opening a business, the pandemic. I did all of it completely alone and pretty much hated every minute of it and was traumatized by all of it.
And now that things are settling down, I'm not the same person I was then. All of those years not only traumatized me but showed me more who I am - my strength, my weaknesses and I spent the last 3 in intensive healing. With multiple therapists and multiple modalities.... I became obsessed with it, probably for reasons like Introvert is saying --- that I knew I had a choice and I could stay stuck (my last dating adventure in late 2020 showed me I still have a really bad picker) and in enormous pain, but I kept following this trail of breadcrumbs to now being so much more comfortable in my skin and with myself. It was a kind of forced sobriety that I can't totally take credit for. Life circumstances cast it all upon me. So that's what I meant in an earlier post about hitting "rock bottom." I don't know that I would have made these changes -- if my ex hadn't gotten someone else pregnant (that was a major dead end, clearly and I was relieved, yet knew I'd keep going back had it not been for that) or my life was so overwhelmingly stressful that I literally had nothing in me to go on a date.
But not all that long ago and through the help of learning from these boards, I made a pretty life-changing decision to take my dating profiles down and be 100% sober. It was super scary-- since that feeling of lack of possibility felt previously absolutely intolerable. I didn't even know it until I experienced it. Multiple good friends who cared about me would say, "Really? you still have an profile up?" As in, everything you've been through esp with people you meet online.... and I did. Come hell or high water, that was my connection to "possibility" without which I felt the most hellish gloom. And deep down I knew that was a real problem. I just didn't know how to face it or that it was something to be faced until I gained some more perspective lately.
But I took the leap and had faith that the universe would put me in touch with the man I'm going to meet one day.... and even took any timelines off the table. And due to all that, I've finally reached an "okayness," and understand that had I gotten into something even a few months ago, I wouldn't be ready. And certain things in my life still need to continue to unfold in ways that they are. This may sound more FA ... but I'm truly getting to know love from inside of me, and truly getting to know me - 8 year old me, 17 year old me, 21 year old me. I'm in a major transition going through menopause now and there's fountains of grief that I need to be with . . . I barely have the space for that now as a single parent of a teen with autism. Never mind with someone! But I can feel more and more readiness....
My daughter asked me recently if I wanted a husband.
And my answer - the answer that came out of my mouth that didn't feel like it came from me was "I actually really just want someone I can connect with." And it shocked me. It sounded so, healthy?! I used to always want a husband - a partner, a person to share the ride, do things for me, with me, alongside me. I still absolutely do - in fact, it's not all that long ago I wrote the post I did that triggered the heck out of everyone here about just needing someone to help share the workload (I actually had a guy here today that I pay to do a sh*t ton of things around the house). And so even that, I'm taking off my future lover's "plate," so to speak. He doesn't have to be my honey-do guy. He doesn't have to fix my broken heart. He's not coming to save me. I don't need to be saved. Or rescued. I'm not a victim.
I would love for him to see me. And get me. And love me for who I am. I likely wouldn't end up with someone who doesn't! (But I used to! Because I was just on repeat with my trauma-- over and over - the "gestalt" of "they don't even really like me and they're critical of me" is my family and pretty much everyone I dated along the way. But since I've begun truly healing that I don't need to press repeat on that anymore.
Anyway, I'm going on about myself here and taking up space on your thread. I'm not saying be like me! Yeah, don't do that, lol. But FWIW, just sharing in case any of it resonates. And also now that I can look back and go "Ohhhhhhh........ " I really didn't get this for a long long time - why anyone would tell me to take some time alone.
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Post by seeking on Aug 16, 2023 1:49:04 GMT
I just wrote a long post before I saw your response to me... you said "
--I have friends and acquaintances. I've had therapists. And I do work on this alone. But no, it isn't enough. Or so far, it hasn't been, apparently, as I am not fixed enough to feel like I don't need a r'ship."
Feeling like you don't need a relationship isn't the goal.
I think being grounded, feeling whole, and wanting healthy connection with something to offer is. But that's just my opinion. Not from a book, from my own experience with healing.
I'm guessing secure types are living their lives and doing things they enjoy and looking forward to meeting someone when the time is right, and trusting to a degree that it will and can happen - because that's coming from a secure, solid, regulated, grounded place in them.
They're not saying "I don't need a relationship."
You're describing feeling nearly disabled by not having a relationship. It sounds like it's coming from a dysregulated place in you that needs the relationship to regulate. Like someone might a drug or a drink or a sex-capade or food to help soothe or numb their trauma and dysregulation ..... I'm suggesting that coming to it from that place is only going to create more problems. It has for me. And like I wrote in my long post above, this is the first time I even knew I had (or could develop) a place in me that is not the drowning sea of dysregulation I lived in all my life. It's why when people used to even talk to me about it, I didn't get it bc I didn't know what they were talking about or that it existed. I never felt it. I just knew what I knew from my own place of dysregulation and what made sense was that the pain and dysregulation stop as soon as possible and my way of doing that was to find someone to help take it away -- usually a man, and sometimes a woman who I could fix or rescue or save or who can do that for me.
And now through this work, I can have a different experience and it comes from the freedom of having a choice - versus no choice. I can choose to be in a relationship (or not) and it's okay. I'm okay. Not "I don't need a relationship." Just "I'm okay."
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Post by seeking on Aug 16, 2023 2:01:10 GMT
Good point. But even when I manage to regulate myself emotionally through exercise, visualization, journal-writing or reaching out, the bigger picture of having no one to help with bills or chores, or to support me if I get hurt or sick, and the lack of consistent contact with anyone attuned to me is still an issue. So the love addiction is one thing, plus the lack of in-person support is real. People aren't meant to go it alone in this world, this economy, and though maybe I'm not as alone as some, I'm also sensitive to loneliness due to an empty bucket childhood. You sound so much like me! This is more justification. You can find a roommate. To help you with expenses. You said you have parents. If worse came to absolute worst, maybe you can live in their backyard in a camper. You're making it some future person's job to take care of you. Trust me. I 100% get it. I really do. And, yes, we are not meant to be alone, yes yes yes. But a love-addicted brain is not seeing other possibilities because it knows this one - the "fix." It's your job to fix your empty bucket childhood. There's so much out there now that can help with that. Partnering with someone who came to me with his loneliness and empty bucket? Bleh. I did that and it was horrible. I don't even know if he loved me or saw me, he just needed a warm body to fill the hole. It was awful. |
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Post by lovebunny on Aug 16, 2023 14:13:11 GMT
I don't think your longing to be in a relationship is unhealthy or necessarily a sign of a love addiction. I've known love addicts and they don't tend to have any gaps and zero boundaries. Their relationships are codependent and enmeshed. Additionally certain relational issues can only be resolved relationally. Some of this work can be done with ourselves (inner child) some with a therapist, some with good friends. But some of it will only come forward in close intimate relationships. Pete Walkers book on PTSD goes over this a bit. It's a great read. I think your longing and rumination is not abnormal for the type of growth you are trying to do. I don't disagree with introvert about sometimes you need a big change, but sometimes we just need to hurry up and be patient. In the meantime my trauma counsellor told me to be mindful of when people respond to me positively. So if I make a bid for connection and give them a compliment or a joke or a hug. If they respond positivity to take notice of that. That when I reach out people respond with love. Thank you, this is my favorite of the responses so far, because it takes into account the work I've already done to get at the underlying problem/pattern. The obsessing and ruminating are a symptom of withdrawl, not an intentional wallow. And thank you for acknowledging that "certain relational issues can only be resolved relationally." I feel like everyone else is yelling "just learn to be happy without a r'ship or family." As if I'm not also trying to do that, trying to find meaning in art and nature and friendships, doing things to try to raise my baseline happiness level, which has always been low, lifelong depression, and just....struggling to feel what I think I'm "supposed" to be feeling (empowered, whole, happy.) So far,"dating myself," cuddling my inner child, meds, talk therapy, healthy eating and exercise, doing trauma workbooks, whatever, nothing has made me stop missing miss my ex, or want a relationship less. Looking into tapping, trying to get more serious about mediation (I can only stand it a few minutes) maybe talk to my landlords if they'd let me get a cockatiel or budgie. I've been working on this for years, since I started to realize how completely rejection destroyed me, way beyond how I saw other people handle rejection. Or, they say "Do something different!" except I have no clue what that "something" is, beyond learning to recognize and not chasing after unavailable types and attempting to be happy while alone. And I'm just getting more and more frustrated. It feels weird that, like, if I want a job, I'm told to work hard and go out and get it, but that logic doesn't apply to finding a life partner, everyone's like "just don't look for it and don't care about it and maybe it'll come." Anyway, I love the last thing you said, about noting positive interactions. Last couple weeks my theater friends have been showing musicals on film in the theater once a week, and last night as I walked in, someone saw me, turned to the others and said with genuine excitement in their voice, "Lovebunny is here!" made me feel so good. Then the young actress I crushed on in my play back in June came in and beelined to me and said, "I was hoping you'd be here!" and again, felt so good. I do cherish and take note of these moments of connection, that's great, concrete advice. |
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Post by lovebunny on Aug 16, 2023 14:31:48 GMT
You sound so much like me! This is more justification. You can find a roommate. To help you with expenses. You said you have parents. If worse came to absolute worst, maybe you can live in their backyard in a camper. You're making it some future person's job to take care of you. Trust me. I 100% get it. I really do. And, yes, we are not meant to be alone, yes yes yes. But a love-addicted brain is not seeing other possibilities because it knows this one - the "fix." It's your job to fix your empty bucket childhood. There's so much out there now that can help with that. Partnering with someone who came to me with his loneliness and empty bucket? Bleh. I did that and it was horrible. I don't even know if he loved me or saw me, he just needed a warm body to fill the hole. It was awful. A roommate, or living with my emotionally unavailable parents would help with expenses, but blech, that sounds unpalatable. I disagree I'm making it some future person's job to take care of me. We'd take care of each other, I bring certain things to the table, they bring certain things. The r'ships I admire are interdependent, and the people in them didn't necessarily have to spend years alone learning to be happy without a relationship in order to have their great relationship. I see your point, but I really don't think I ask for anything unreasonable from my partners. More than one of my exes have said I was the best r'ship of their lives (then we break up anyway.) I maintain my own friendships, hobbies, work, and personality. I got a little insulted the other day a friend said something to me like, "You won't be good in a r'ship if you're not good alone." I responded, "You spend time with me regularly. Do you find me boring, needy and like it's not fulfilling to be around me?" She admitted that was not the case. I also understand that I should keep doing "the work." In or out of a r'ship. |
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Post by SpeakCzar on Aug 16, 2023 14:32:30 GMT
I don't think your longing to be in a relationship is unhealthy or necessarily a sign of a love addiction. I've known love addicts and they don't tend to have any gaps and zero boundaries. Their relationships are codependent and enmeshed. Additionally certain relational issues can only be resolved relationally. Some of this work can be done with ourselves (inner child) some with a therapist, some with good friends. But some of it will only come forward in close intimate relationships. Pete Walkers book on PTSD goes over this a bit. It's a great read. I think your longing and rumination is not abnormal for the type of growth you are trying to do. I don't disagree with introvert about sometimes you need a big change, but sometimes we just need to hurry up and be patient. In the meantime my trauma counsellor told me to be mindful of when people respond to me positively. So if I make a bid for connection and give them a compliment or a joke or a hug. If they respond positivity to take notice of that. That when I reach out people respond with love. Thank you, this is my favorite of the responses so far, because it takes into account the work I've already done to get at the underlying problem/pattern. The obsessing and ruminating are a symptom of withdrawl, not an intentional wallow. And thank you for acknowledging that "certain relational issues can only be resolved relationally." I feel like everyone else is yelling "just learn to be happy without a r'ship or family." As if I'm not also trying to do that, trying to find meaning in art and nature and friendships, doing things to try to raise my baseline happiness level, which has always been low, lifelong depression, and just....struggling to feel what I think I'm "supposed" to be feeling (empowered, whole, happy.) So far,"dating myself," cuddling my inner child, meds, talk therapy, healthy eating and exercise, doing trauma workbooks, whatever, nothing has made me stop missing miss my ex, or want a relationship less. Looking into tapping, trying to get more serious about mediation (I can only stand it a few minutes) maybe talk to my landlords if they'd let me get a cockatiel or budgie. I've been working on this for years, since I started to realize how completely rejection destroyed me, way beyond how I saw other people handle rejection. Or, they say "Do something different!" except I have no clue what that "something" is, beyond learning to recognize and not chasing after unavailable types and attempting to be happy while alone. And I'm just getting more and more frustrated. It feels weird that, like, if I want a job, I'm told to work hard and go out and get it, but that logic doesn't apply to finding a life partner, everyone's like "just don't look for it and don't care about it and maybe it'll come." Anyway, I love the last thing you said, about noting positive interactions. Last couple weeks my theater friends have been showing musicals on film in the theater once a week, and last night as I walked in, someone saw me, turned to the others and said with genuine excitement in their voice, "Lovebunny is here!" made me feel so good. Then the young actress I crushed on in my play back in June came in and beelined to me and said, "I was hoping you'd be here!" and again, felt so good. I do cherish and take note of these moments of connection, that's great, concrete advice. As humans we are biologically wired to be intimately connected with a special someone, to become interdependent. The data is in, the positive effects of being in a healthy, mutually committed and respectful/loving relationship are abundantly clear and plentiful. Never allow yourself to be shamed, by yourself or anyone else, for desiring to be close to someone or want a family. That is in line with what I believe is the greatest gift that God has ever given us, as well as a very natural inclination. I typically go one step further and say that it is our very nature that decrees so, and to go against it is to rebel against the very essence that makes us human. Obviously, that's a far more fanatic take, and should be taken with a grain of salt, and has some religious context that not everyone agrees with. Anyhow... I am still new here and still learning, but I just wanted to share with you my findings on how healthy, intimate relationships play out in the biological world, and hopefully for you to be proud and celebrate your desire for such! |
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Post by introvert on Aug 16, 2023 14:33:21 GMT
One of the "do something different" is something you're not willing and able to do, which is move from an island that you say has essentially no prospects that you can see for dating, which seems to be your most important goal. I don't think it's a ridiculous suggestion because I'm fairly practical and I thought you has mentioned a resource that could help you achieve that.
And, you may be someone who never heals. That scared the shit out of me when I realized that's the reality for many people, and it made me incredibly motivated to mature in every way possible. It is a process of maturing. If you have really done everything to work on your trauma and maturity in relarionships, and you have not found the relief you seek, maybe it is your reality. I'm sorry if that's the case. It may be a matter of hurry up and wait, though, and noticing positive interactions. Who knows, maybe something will just click.
At any rate, I can see that my input is not helpful to you where you're at, sorry about that, I hope it works out for you!
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Post by SpeakCzar on Aug 16, 2023 14:37:36 GMT
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Post by introvert on Aug 16, 2023 14:50:25 GMT
Thank you, this is my favorite of the responses so far, because it takes into account the work I've already done to get at the underlying problem/pattern. The obsessing and ruminating are a symptom of withdrawl, not an intentional wallow. And thank you for acknowledging that "certain relational issues can only be resolved relationally." I feel like everyone else is yelling "just learn to be happy without a r'ship or family." As if I'm not also trying to do that, trying to find meaning in art and nature and friendships, doing things to try to raise my baseline happiness level, which has always been low, lifelong depression, and just....struggling to feel what I think I'm "supposed" to be feeling (empowered, whole, happy.) So far,"dating myself," cuddling my inner child, meds, talk therapy, healthy eating and exercise, doing trauma workbooks, whatever, nothing has made me stop missing miss my ex, or want a relationship less. Looking into tapping, trying to get more serious about mediation (I can only stand it a few minutes) maybe talk to my landlords if they'd let me get a cockatiel or budgie. I've been working on this for years, since I started to realize how completely rejection destroyed me, way beyond how I saw other people handle rejection. Or, they say "Do something different!" except I have no clue what that "something" is, beyond learning to recognize and not chasing after unavailable types and attempting to be happy while alone. And I'm just getting more and more frustrated. It feels weird that, like, if I want a job, I'm told to work hard and go out and get it, but that logic doesn't apply to finding a life partner, everyone's like "just don't look for it and don't care about it and maybe it'll come." Anyway, I love the last thing you said, about noting positive interactions. Last couple weeks my theater friends have been showing musicals on film in the theater once a week, and last night as I walked in, someone saw me, turned to the others and said with genuine excitement in their voice, "Lovebunny is here!" made me feel so good. Then the young actress I crushed on in my play back in June came in and beelined to me and said, "I was hoping you'd be here!" and again, felt so good. I do cherish and take note of these moments of connection, that's great, concrete advice. As humans we are biologically wired to be intimately connected with a special someone, to become interdependent. The data is in, the positive effects of being in a healthy, mutually committed and respectful/loving relationship are abundantly clear and plentiful. Never allow yourself to be shamed, by yourself or anyone else, for desiring to be close to someone or want a family. That is in line with what I believe is the greatest gift that God has ever given us, as well as a very natural inclination. I typically go one step further and say that it is our very nature that decrees so, and to go against it is to rebel against the very essence that makes us human. Obviously, that's a far more fanatic take, and should be taken with a grain of salt, and has some religious context that not everyone agrees with. Anyhow... I am still new here and still learning, but I just wanted to share with you my findings on how healthy, intimate relationships play out in the biological world, and hopefully for you to be proud and celebrate your desire for such! Oh come on, who is shaming anyone for wanting a relationship? This is about long standing misery without one, and finding alternatives to a demographic that doesnt supply suitsble prospects as "unpalatable". This thread has addressed the mindset of someone trapped in what seems to them to be an unsolvable mystery, it isn't shaming anyone for wanting relationships. It's challenging the approach. A person can desire a relationship without being stuck emotionally like this. What does your God say about this stuckness? Is it healthy, desirable, something beautiful and natural? It doesn't seem like a condition that God would sanction, but maybe that depends on interpretation. |
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Post by SpeakCzar on Aug 16, 2023 14:54:41 GMT
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Post by seeking on Aug 16, 2023 15:30:17 GMT
Good luck to you, LoveBunny. I'll take my exit.  |
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Post by lovebunny on Aug 16, 2023 17:10:48 GMT
Thanks all, I appreciate each and every one of you. I think what I'm looking for here is a place I can "check in," on my own progress (or lack thereof,) and know I'm seen and not judged.
Also, I tend to come back and read and reread, looking for patterns, thought processes, etc..
Concrete suggestions are helpful, but I don't think I'm expecting anyone here to "fix" this for me. More like I'm after a "I know this is tough, but you're gonna be ok. Someone sees you!"
The moving idea is not ridiculous, and I'm not counting it out at all. Just need to sit with it.
We can let this thread end now, I think we've got enough juice out of it. Thanks again!
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Post by cherrycola on Aug 16, 2023 18:17:59 GMT
You probably know a lot of this already, but I liked this podcast episode about why you miss your ex. open.spotify.com/episode/0bBBy6ssIcyK3BBzo8y3qI?si=K3vkhm0kR2qo3Ls6BqLb9AIf you don't have Spotify it's the Love happiness and success podcast "why you miss your ex and what to do about it" "The feeling part of your mind can not tell the difference between things that you are thinking about and things that are actually happening" |
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