|
|
Post by avoiddemons on Dec 18, 2017 18:22:45 GMT
So, I’m a Secure who had the hideously unfortunate experience of dating an Avoidant recently.
I’m not clear on whether he is a Dismissive Avoidant, or a Fearful Avoidant. Maybe somebody here can help me clarify?
I met him at his place of work— he owns several stores. I walked in to one of his stores. He was on the shop floor. He spent like 2 hours chatting me up and then asked me if I’d like to go for coffee sometime. I thought he seemed interesting, so I said OK. He then proceeded to close the shop to take me out for a coffee right there and then.
Conversation flowed. We got on really well. At the back of my mind I kept wondering why this guy was so ashamed of himself though. Now, he didn’t SAY he’s ashamed of himself. But I’m an Empath, and his sense of shame was palpable to me.
We began dating in the old fashioned sense — going out to dinner, talking for hours (our second date lasted 20 hours, with no sex involved, just talking).
He tried to escalate things sexually, but not really aggressively so. I explained that I don’t have sex outside of a relationship. We continued seeing each other. I explained that I understand there are plenty of women out there who will have sex on a much more casual basis and that I don’t want to waste his time and he should feel free to just pursue a woman whose views on sex might match his. Several weeks later he said he was really into me and wanted a relationship.
It took in total nearly 3 months before we had sex.
After we first slept together I again said I’m not interested in casual sex, friends with benefits, f-buddies etc. He said, “no, this is a relationship. I’m not seeing anyone else and don’t want to see anyone else.”
I didn’t mention this to him, but in the first couple of months I’d found him extremely secretive. But as the months went on, he started to really open up and this surprised me. He admitted he had money worries and various other issues. But soon after he opened up about these things and made himself vulnerable, he simultaneously began pushing me away. Literally, one minute he was making plans with me to spent New Years Eve together. Maybe 20 minutes later he told me he was no longer wanting to see me because he feels I’m “catching feelings.”
Erm….don’t normal people who are dating and sleeping with a man catch feelings and care for him?
He told me it was time to go “back” to being friends. How can we go back to being friends when we’ve never been just friends?
I told him to get lost. He looked utterly hurt and lost.
What on earth is wrong with these people?
|
|
|
|
Post by avoiddemons on Dec 18, 2017 19:42:44 GMT
He's messaged me: " I like you but didn't intend on spending my entire life with you."
Where was the part where I asked him to spend his entire life with me?
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Dec 18, 2017 19:43:37 GMT
So, I’m a Secure who had the hideously unfortunate experience of dating an Avoidant recently. I’m not clear on whether he is a Dismissive Avoidant, or a Fearful Avoidant. Maybe somebody here can help me clarify? I met him at his place of work— he owns several stores. I walked in to one of his stores. He was on the shop floor. He spent like 2 hours chatting me up and then asked me if I’d like to go for coffee sometime. I thought he seemed interesting, so I said OK. He then proceeded to close the shop to take me out for a coffee right there and then. Conversation flowed. We got on really well. At the back of my mind I kept wondering why this guy was so ashamed of himself though. Now, he didn’t SAY he’s ashamed of himself. But I’m an Empath, and his sense of shame was palpable to me. We began dating in the old fashioned sense — going out to dinner, talking for hours (our second date lasted 20 hours, with no sex involved, just talking). He tried to escalate things sexually, but not really aggressively so. I explained that I don’t have sex outside of a relationship. We continued seeing each other. I explained that I understand there are plenty of women out there who will have sex on a much more casual basis and that I don’t want to waste his time and he should feel free to just pursue a woman whose views on sex might match his. Several weeks later he said he was really into me and wanted a relationship. It took in total nearly 3 months before we had sex. After we first slept together I again said I’m not interested in casual sex, friends with benefits, f-buddies etc. He said, “no, this is a relationship. I’m not seeing anyone else and don’t want to see anyone else.” I didn’t mention this to him, but in the first couple of months I’d found him extremely secretive. But as the months went on, he started to really open up and this surprised me. He admitted he had money worries and various other issues. But soon after he opened up about these things and made himself vulnerable, he simultaneously began pushing me away. Literally, one minute he was making plans with me to spent New Years Eve together. Maybe 20 minutes later he told me he was no longer wanting to see me because he feels I’m “catching feelings.” Erm….don’t normal people who are dating and sleeping with a man catch feelings and care for him? He told me it was time to go “back” to being friends. How can we go back to being friends when we’ve never been just friends? I told him to get lost. He looked utterly hurt and lost. What on earth is wrong with these people? I am no expert...but he sounds more FA then DA...DAs usually view themselves highly....FAs tend to have poorer views of themselves. Did he reveal anything about his family? Was there any neglect or abuse? The come hither/go away (on my terms) is definately challenging. How I have had to come to grips with it is to think of someone who equally wants and let is equally afraid of intimacy. In another post, someone described it as desperately wanting hugs while having 5th degree burns. Welcome to the forums. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Dec 18, 2017 19:46:32 GMT
He's messaged me: " I like you but didn't intend on spending my entire life with you." Where was the part where I asked him to spend his entire life with me? Well...that is the thing...he may have had other relationships where someone misinterpreted him and wanted a marriage so now he is ultra sensitive and reacts as if anyone who wants a relationship wants to marry him...and since he doesn't want that...he pushes away hard. |
|
|
|
Post by yasmin on Dec 18, 2017 19:47:37 GMT
There's a lot of men in the world who will say / do / act however required to get the sex and then change immediately or soon afterwards. I have dated men like this before.
I remember once a guy asked me out for nine months. He constantly asked me out, did anything / everything possible to get me to go out with him. He didn't seem pushy, he seemed sweet and infatuated with me but I kept saying "no" because he was 8 years younger than me and I didn't think there was a future.
I eventually went out with him after a nine month pursuit, and for about three weeks he was bouncing off the walls with romance and happiness. Then suddenly he changed and started pulling away and when I questioned him he said he liked me so much more than he thought and he didn't want to catch feelings because he wasn't ready for a relationship.
I continued to see him with him blowing hot and cold for another six months (he didn't want to break up and actually this guy came to my house and stood outside my window until I took him back!!) and then on Valentines Day I caught him online on tinder while I was in the kitchen making breakfast. He'd met someone on Tinder that night who was 15 years younger than me. He is still dating her now, they are engaged.
So what I am saying is he did like me / want me - but he didn't see me as serious potential for reasons outside my control (my age) and even though he was the one who kept telling me age was just a number and it didn't matter, it really did and he was just lying to get what he wanted from me.
So in this case his push - pull and hot- cold wasn't due to attachment issues but basically just due to him having already decided he didn't want to invest in me emotionally but he also didn't want to lose me. People can be unbelievable selfish and if you're a genuine person it can be hard to understand.
It's hard to tell the difference between the two but I think you'd probably need to look at the bigger picture. Sometimes people can behave pretty strangely for all sorts of reasons
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Dec 18, 2017 19:48:00 GMT
A lot of his behavior is not going to make sense because it is fear driven...fear of engulfment and fear of rejection.
|
|
|
|
Post by avoiddemons on Dec 18, 2017 19:56:23 GMT
There's a lot of men in the world who will say / do / act however required to get the sex and then change immediately or soon afterwards. I have dated men like this before. I remember once a guy asked me out for nine months. He constantly asked me out, did anything / everything possible to get me to go out with him. He didn't seem pushy, he seemed sweet and infatuated with me but I kept saying "no" because he was 8 years younger than me and I didn't think there was a future. I eventually went out with him after a nine month pursuit, and for about three weeks he was bouncing off the walls with romance and happiness. Then suddenly he changed and started pulling away and when I questioned him he said he liked me so much more than he thought and he didn't want to catch feelings because he wasn't ready for a relationship. I continued to see him with him blowing hot and cold for another six months (he didn't want to break up and actually this guy came to my house and stood outside my window until I took him back!!) and then on Valentines Day I caught him online on tinder while I was in the kitchen making breakfast. He'd met someone on Tinder that night who was 15 years younger than me. He is still dating her now, they are engaged. So what I am saying is he did like me / want me - but he didn't see me as serious potential for reasons outside my control (my age) and even though he was the one who kept telling me age was just a number and it didn't matter, it really did and he was just lying to get what he wanted from me. So in this case his push - pull and hot- cold wasn't due to attachment issues but basically just due to him having already decided he didn't want to invest in me emotionally but he also didn't want to lose me. People can be unbelievable selfish and if you're a genuine person it can be hard to understand. It's hard to tell the difference between the two but I think you'd probably need to look at the bigger picture. Sometimes people can behave pretty strangely for all sorts of reasons He's displayed so many Avoidant behaviours. It is possible my age is a problem for him. We are both the same age --- 40. But he's said he doesn't want to have kids for at least 5 years. He just wants to use me for sex I guess. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 20:12:06 GMT
There's a lot of men in the world who will say / do / act however required to get the sex and then change immediately or soon afterwards. I have dated men like this before. I remember once a guy asked me out for nine months. He constantly asked me out, did anything / everything possible to get me to go out with him. He didn't seem pushy, he seemed sweet and infatuated with me but I kept saying "no" because he was 8 years younger than me and I didn't think there was a future. I eventually went out with him after a nine month pursuit, and for about three weeks he was bouncing off the walls with romance and happiness. Then suddenly he changed and started pulling away and when I questioned him he said he liked me so much more than he thought and he didn't want to catch feelings because he wasn't ready for a relationship. I continued to see him with him blowing hot and cold for another six months (he didn't want to break up and actually this guy came to my house and stood outside my window until I took him back!!) and then on Valentines Day I caught him online on tinder while I was in the kitchen making breakfast. He'd met someone on Tinder that night who was 15 years younger than me. He is still dating her now, they are engaged. So what I am saying is he did like me / want me - but he didn't see me as serious potential for reasons outside my control (my age) and even though he was the one who kept telling me age was just a number and it didn't matter, it really did and he was just lying to get what he wanted from me. So in this case his push - pull and hot- cold wasn't due to attachment issues but basically just due to him having already decided he didn't want to invest in me emotionally but he also didn't want to lose me. People can be unbelievable selfish and if you're a genuine person it can be hard to understand. It's hard to tell the difference between the two but I think you'd probably need to look at the bigger picture. Sometimes people can behave pretty strangely for all sorts of reasons This is what upsets me sometimes. Some people are just jerks or selfish and they seem to get put in the "avoidant pile". There are other motives for blowing hot and cold, sometimes it's an avoidant issue and sometimes it's not. Some people just lie and they are not necessarily avoidant. Some people just ghost and they are not necessarily avoidant. Unfortunately, no one knows the true motive except the person themself. I think with short relationships, there's limited information, and it's difficult to say what a person's attachment style is. |
|
|
|
Post by yasmin on Dec 18, 2017 20:21:10 GMT
If you're 40 and he doesn't want kids for 5 years then that's pretty tricky. Not saying it never works out, but it does sound like he's been explicit saying he doesn't want a relationship. Whatever the reason, he's been a real jerk. Good job you walked away!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 20:22:56 GMT
I spent months - nearly a year in a dating situation with me ex FA - like you I was adamant that sex outside a committed relationship didn't work for me - nothing moral here just personal preference. So we took things very very slowly and he hung around, was consistent and considerate although like your ex there were warning signs in hindsight for example the huge emphasis on having his own space, privacy etc etc.
Nothing changed after sex - but I almost feel as though my own hesitance in getting involved somehow made him feel more secure since my foot was always on the brake.
We were together for 6 years and eventually things fell apart when I realised I could never trust him to be really here for me - there was so much fear - of engulfment, commitment, control or whatever. I have now realised none of this was anything to do with me - he is nearly 50 and had a long history of disastrous relationships.
I don't think it helps to go down the road of trying to work out why - just accepting that you did your best and acted with grace and dignity is enough. As Mary said, who knows what is going on with him. What's important is that he acted in a way that's not in accord with your relationship needs and goals and once you were aware of this you ended things. Sorry you're hurting so much - it really is incredibly hard.
|
|
|
|
Post by avoiddemons on Dec 18, 2017 20:44:34 GMT
There's a lot of men in the world who will say / do / act however required to get the sex and then change immediately or soon afterwards. I have dated men like this before. I remember once a guy asked me out for nine months. He constantly asked me out, did anything / everything possible to get me to go out with him. He didn't seem pushy, he seemed sweet and infatuated with me but I kept saying "no" because he was 8 years younger than me and I didn't think there was a future. I eventually went out with him after a nine month pursuit, and for about three weeks he was bouncing off the walls with romance and happiness. Then suddenly he changed and started pulling away and when I questioned him he said he liked me so much more than he thought and he didn't want to catch feelings because he wasn't ready for a relationship. I continued to see him with him blowing hot and cold for another six months (he didn't want to break up and actually this guy came to my house and stood outside my window until I took him back!!) and then on Valentines Day I caught him online on tinder while I was in the kitchen making breakfast. He'd met someone on Tinder that night who was 15 years younger than me. He is still dating her now, they are engaged. So what I am saying is he did like me / want me - but he didn't see me as serious potential for reasons outside my control (my age) and even though he was the one who kept telling me age was just a number and it didn't matter, it really did and he was just lying to get what he wanted from me. So in this case his push - pull and hot- cold wasn't due to attachment issues but basically just due to him having already decided he didn't want to invest in me emotionally but he also didn't want to lose me. People can be unbelievable selfish and if you're a genuine person it can be hard to understand. It's hard to tell the difference between the two but I think you'd probably need to look at the bigger picture. Sometimes people can behave pretty strangely for all sorts of reasons This is what upsets me sometimes. Some people are just jerks or selfish and they seem to get put in the "avoidant pile". There are other motives for blowing hot and cold, sometimes it's an avoidant issue and sometimes it's not. Some people just lie and they are not necessarily avoidant. Some people just ghost and they are not necessarily avoidant. Unfortunately, no one knows the true motive except the person themself. I think with short relationships, there's limited information, and it's difficult to say what a person's attachment style is. I haven't typed up much of the history here as it would almost fill a book. But he is clearly Avoidant -- not just with me but in relationships in general. He seems to veer more towards Fearful Avoidant. |
|
|
|
Post by avoiddemons on Dec 18, 2017 20:46:24 GMT
So now he's called and said he just got scared and that's why he said those things. He's convinced I'm pregnant and that freaked him out. He has invited himself over to say sorry. This is very erratic behaviour. Again.
|
|
|
|
Post by flowerpoww on Dec 18, 2017 22:12:35 GMT
If you're 40 and he doesn't want kids for 5 years then that's pretty tricky. Not saying it never works out, but it does sound like he's been explicit saying he doesn't want a relationship. Whatever the reason, he's been a real jerk. Good job you walked away! He is setting up a catch 22! if you wanted to wait 5 years then he would probably magically want kids immediately. There is no winning with these people! Whatever you want, they will automatically want the opposite precisely because that's a barrier for you two. He sounds definitely like a fearful avoidant that I dated. Just a confusing mishmash of contradictory statements one day to the next. |
|
|
|
Post by avoiddemons on Dec 18, 2017 23:11:11 GMT
If you're 40 and he doesn't want kids for 5 years then that's pretty tricky. Not saying it never works out, but it does sound like he's been explicit saying he doesn't want a relationship. Whatever the reason, he's been a real jerk. Good job you walked away! He is setting up a catch 22! if you wanted to wait 5 years then he would probably magically want kids immediately. There is no winning with these people! Whatever you want, they will automatically want the opposite precisely because that's a barrier for you two. He sounds definitely like a fearful avoidant that I dated. Just a confusing mishmash of contradictory statements one day to the next. Would you be willing to tell me a bit more about your experience with your fearful avoidant ex boyfriend? |
|
|
|
Post by yasmin on Dec 18, 2017 23:43:16 GMT
He is setting up a catch 22! if you wanted to wait 5 years then he would probably magically want kids immediately. There is no winning with these people! Whatever you want, they will automatically want the opposite precisely because that's a barrier for you two. He sounds definitely like a fearful avoidant that I dated. Just a confusing mishmash of contradictory statements one day to the next. Would you be willing to tell me a bit more about your experience with your fearful avoidant ex boyfriend? that is SO true. |
|
