Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 15:19:29 GMT
in any case, the only way out of a predicament one finds oneself in, regardless of attachment style, is to understand and direct one's own self. what happens once a discrepancy is revealed, is up to the participant. i've learned this the hard way also, and only share because it seems to be the widely accepted path to emotional peace and health, as expressed by professionals and experienced laypersons alike. For sure, it's the key in every aspect of your life to achieve fulfillment. So rare, though. I was talking in a more surface level context. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 15:25:35 GMT
in any case, the only way out of a predicament one finds oneself in, regardless of attachment style, is to understand and direct one's own self. what happens once a discrepancy is revealed, is up to the participant. i've learned this the hard way also, and only share because it seems to be the widely accepted path to emotional peace and health, as expressed by professionals and experienced laypersons alike. For sure, it's the key in every aspect of your life to achieve fulfillment. So rare, though. I was talking in a more surface level context. i don't find it rare, except in people who are insecure. |
|
|
|
Post by goldilocks on Jun 6, 2018 15:32:59 GMT
I would forego figuring out intentions if they are not in alignment with actions.
Only when intentions, feelings and actions are in alignment they are of any use.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 15:33:43 GMT
My guess is, one will come only when there's food and disapear into bushes the second he finishes. And you'll start noticing the other one is just hanging out in your garden even if there's no food. But in practice, I think it's the biggest problem with such "relationships", you don't know their true intentions and even though you want to make it work it causes anxiety even in a secure or a fellow avoidant person. I don't think many DAs realize that. Yes, my exDA tomcat was always hanging around my garden, even after the catnip.
He also brought me little gifts, a little rat, a dead bug, and showed me his two little kitty offsprings. 
He made some delicious gourmet meals for me too, and took me on dates.
I gave him an ultimatum - can't you just come more often, and spend a little more time with me?
He woefully shook his head - I can't, I have so many rats to catch and chase all over the fields, and I need to care for my family and friends, who live on the other side of the village.
So I shooed him away twice. But I gave him a little parting gift to remind him that he is an awesome cat.
He hinted that he was divesting of some commitments from the other side of the village.
He asked me once, "Where would you like to travel to?" "Hmm...Peru, Egypt and Africa."
He said "Deal!" He placed his paws on mine and said,"We are both of us wild animals, let's stay together."
So we kept seeing each other once or twice a month, but it just wasn't enough for me.
I do think he tried, but he couldn't do more. It is a matter of whether I could accept and be happy with this, and I decided I'm not.
I cut him off quite abruptly, and he's stayed away since.
It is still confusing to me, and to make it easier to get over, I guess I have to think worse of him, yet it doesn't feel honest. It feels a little sad. 
Anyway, to celebrate all feral cats out there, here's the little story from Kipling about them :
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 15:39:57 GMT
For sure, it's the key in every aspect of your life to achieve fulfillment. So rare, though. I was talking in a more surface level context. i don't find it rare, except in people who are insecure. Maybe we misunderstood each other. I was thinking about achieving awareness of the unconscious. |
|
|
|
Post by ulrike21 on Jun 6, 2018 15:40:47 GMT
Some excellent insights in this thread. So good to see you back here Juniper. You are so clear in your responses and they are rational and incredibly helpful.
You may remember me as the lady who is dealing the the DA Doctor in NY! lol.
I had called it off in February but he reeled me back in a month later. It took a month of texts, and a falling out by text! for us to finally have another meet up. Went great but I sensed nothing would be different but was trying to let it flow. A couple of weeks later, (he had been out of town during that time as part of pursuing his online MBA), his usual communication style led me to have a melt down and call it off again. And again he accepted and wished me the best. Only to reel me back a week later. This time I asked him what he really thought of me and he wrote, "I really like you, I'm sometimes irritated by you, I almost always lust you". (We do have fantastic physical chemistry.)
Long story short - we met again a couple of nights back. He made a sincere effort to come out and meet my young niece and friends who are visiting from the UK. We all had a fun, stimulating evening. He spent the night with me and as always was incredibly affectionate. Doesn't let go of me all night, cuddling and always has my hand in his. The next morning I had an appointment but we were up early and had a hour long walk in a park near his place, he wanted to show me around his neighborhood. Took me for a great breakfast around the corner from his place. (I have never been in his apt - don't know the address! He described it as his fort, his own private sanctuary, but we were close by - that's all I know!)
I know his time is precious to him. Very busy and stressful lifestyle at present. So I appreciated the time with him. I felt considered and respected.
I think point you make about analysis speaks to me.
He has been clear from the getgo regarding his dislike of 'relationships', not wanting to be curtailed etc. etc. He has a low, to no tolerance of stupidity or anything he considers a waste of his time. He is deliberate and intentional in all he does. He believes in fulfilling his true potential in his professional life and is extremely ambitious. He is disciplined. Private, told me he hates being questioned. He is basically everything I am not! We couldn't be more opposite! But he clearly enjoys me. He tells me I am a great person, awesome, fantastic, smart, beautiful etc...
This has been an ongoing, intermittent situation for 19 months.
I am 60 and he is 51. I haven't met anyone in the interim who I find as stimulating or of interest to me. I do not have a desire for marriage. I am totally independent. I like my life. I know he is turned off from neediness. Doesn't care for being responsible for a partner. He seeks someone who is fulfilling their own needs and potential - which is ultimately a healthy perspective?! I am usually seeking to do just that. But somewhat lazier than him!
We parted with him giving me 'advice'! "don't fuck it up" - said somewhat tongue in cheek but I know he means it. Hence I do feel he would like some kind of 'relationship' with me. I guess on his terms only. Somewhat difficult for me as I am someone who likes to be in control! plus I am naturally very curious, (nosy), have no filter when it comes to talking people about myself! But I know where he was coming from. Don't ask him, "where is this going", "what is this". don't shower him with affection and love nor make requests from him. I actually find myself in a place now where I can do this. It feels quite grown up even! Not to expect someone to fulfill me and make me happy. That's my job.
So - with the help of reading your posts Juniper. I am going to go forward without analyzing everything - which was actually driving me crazy!! focus on myself and whatever he brings to the picture - if positive we continue and if negative we part ways.
I say now! Watch this space . . . .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 15:51:53 GMT
My guess is, one will come only when there's food and disapear into bushes the second he finishes. And you'll start noticing the other one is just hanging out in your garden even if there's no food. But in practice, I think it's the biggest problem with such "relationships", you don't know their true intentions and even though you want to make it work it causes anxiety even in a secure or a fellow avoidant person. I don't think many DAs realize that. Yes, my exDA tomcat was always hanging around my garden, even after the catnip.
He also brought me little gifts, a little rat, a dead bug, and showed me his two little kitty offsprings.
He made some delicious gourmet meals for me too, and took me on dates.
I gave him an ultimatum - can't you just come more often, and spend a little more time with me?
He woefully shook his head - I can't, I have so many rats to catch and chase all over the fields, and I need to care for my family and friends, who live on the other side of the village.
So I shooed him away twice. But I gave him a little parting gift to remind him that he is an awesome cat.
He hinted that he was divesting of some commitments from the other side of the village.
He asked me once, "Where would you like to travel to?" "Hmm...Peru, Egypt and Africa."
He said "Deal!" He placed his paws on mine and said,"We are both of us wild animals, let's stay together."
So we kept seeing each other once or twice a month, but it just wasn't enough for me.
I do think he tried, but he couldn't do more. It is a matter of whether I could accept and be happy with this, and I decided I'm not.
I cut him off quite abruptly, and he's stayed away since.
It is still confusing to me, and to make it easier to get over, I guess I have to think worse of him, yet it doesn't feel honest. It feels a little sad.
Anyway, to celebrate all feral cats out there, here's the little story from Kipling about them :
It doesn't seem like hanging out in your garden, it seems like luring you into scratching when he feels itching. You can't know and it's not what is able to satisfy you, it's absolutely not something you should accept or force yourself into, that's important. Creating unbalanced dynamics is not a way to go. In my honest opinion, it can be only accepted if it SATISFIES BOTH partners and leads to growth. Otherwise it's an unhealthy self abuse. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 15:52:43 GMT
hi ulrike21! yes, i remember you fondly. if you participate in what he has to offer, you accept what he has to offer, whether it causes you suffering or not. You may balk at this. But unhappiness does not withdraw the fact that you participate. Unhappiness is due to the fact that you choose to participate. On his terms. That's the thing, participation is voluntary and is active consent. Emotional dissent is another can of worms. Just because there is suffering and attempts to alter the reality of the entanglement, doesn't mean that the participation. isn't voluntary, on both sides. a relationship is never on one person's terms actually. participation with one person's terms, in stark reality, is an agreement to those terms. Resistance to the terms while participating under the terms is detrimental to the participating resistor, and the only way out is to resolve ones own flakiness. Another person's (Avoidant's) flakiness is often used as a distraction from the flakiness, uncertainty, and fear of committing to a decision that resides in the one who suffers the absolute most. The AP. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 16:07:03 GMT
and i guess i would condense the point like this.
if you're a part of a relationship that makes you miserable, there's a ton to address inside yourself in terms of your own mixed messages and lack of clarity or commitment.
Deciphering the mixed messages of someone else won't help you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 16:10:57 GMT
i don't find it rare, except in people who are insecure. Maybe we misunderstood each other. I was thinking about achieving awareness of the unconscious. i don't think that is rare. i think it's a long complicated process and everyone is at a different place with it. but i don't find it rare at all. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 16:14:59 GMT
I would forego figuring out intentions if they are not in alignment with actions. Only when intentions, feelings and actions are in alignment they are of any use. and in many many cases i read on this board, intentions match actions. even in stories told in this thread, the avoidant ultimately did not BUDGE from the originally stated intentions. which were clarified. Twice a week stayed twice a week. casual stayed casual. the AP in these cases definitely made effort to change it up and it didn't work. it's all painful. but mostly for the people posting here's i think. i know it's sad and painful and frustrating but reality often is and we find more peace when we accept reality and learn from it. speaking from experience. and now have peace. |
|
|
|
Post by goldilocks on Jun 6, 2018 16:20:50 GMT
Twice a week is fine for many people and heartbreaking for others.
Casual is fine for many people and heartbreaking for others.
It's best when people know themselves and don't break their own hearts.
This is a form of self abuse, and if you are breaking your own heart and making yourself unhappy it is time to do the work needed to treat yourself more lovingly.
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jun 6, 2018 16:24:50 GMT
I would forego figuring out intentions if they are not in alignment with actions. Only when intentions, feelings and actions are in alignment they are of any use. and in many many cases i read on this board, intentions match actions. even in stories told in this thread, the avoidant ultimately did not BUDGE from the originally stated intentions. which were clarified. Twice a week stayed twice a week. casual stayed casual. the AP in these cases definitely made effort to change it up and it didn't work. it's all painful. but mostly for the people posting here's i think. i know it's sad and painful and frustrating but reality often is and we find more peace when we accept reality and learn from it. speaking from experience. and now have peace. Thank you Juniper and Goldilocks....this is very good to remember. I do still wrestle with thoughts of hope that there be something more...and I have to gently remind myself that if I am not ok with where things are..that I am the one who must address that by either choosing to not be friends/leaving the community..or I have to address what is within me so that I can be ok. I am choosing the later...it is an uphill battle...but I see it as very good and very rewarding self work. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 16:43:21 GMT
and in many many cases i read on this board, intentions match actions. even in stories told in this thread, the avoidant ultimately did not BUDGE from the originally stated intentions. which were clarified. Twice a week stayed twice a week. casual stayed casual. the AP in these cases definitely made effort to change it up and it didn't work. it's all painful. but mostly for the people posting here's i think. i know it's sad and painful and frustrating but reality often is and we find more peace when we accept reality and learn from it. speaking from experience. and now have peace. Thank you Juniper and Goldilocks....this is very good to remember. I do still wrestle with thoughts of hope that there be something more...and I have to gently remind myself that if I am not ok with where things are..that I am the one who must address that by either choosing to not be friends/leaving the community..or I have to address what is within me so that I can be ok. I am choosing the later...it is an uphill battle...but I see it as very good and very rewarding self work. ❤️ |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 16:46:14 GMT
Twice a week is fine for many people and heartbreaking for others. Casual is fine for many people and heartbreaking for others. It's best when people know themselves and don't break their own hearts. This is a form of self abuse, and if you are breaking your own heart and making yourself unhappy it is time to do the work needed to treat yourself more lovingly. My approach to this is to listen to my feelings and care about them tenderly. if i am sad, i know it, i care, and i want to help. i want to be a friend to myself, and i am brave to make tough choices that nobody else can make for me, in order to protect myself. I have found that loving actions toward myself provide a level of self esteem and security that no one else in the world can come close to. Love from another, is icing. |
|
