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Post by boomerang on Jun 22, 2018 12:56:19 GMT
Can the DAs out there or anyone else help me understand why DAs come back once you have been in no contact for awhile?
I feel I do not really understand DA attachment in this respect, though I have read a lot about DA attachment (and my own attachment style) on this forum and elsewhere, and I think I understand what triggers folks with DA attachment wounds and why they disappear. I have read in some threads that some DAs can just move on, close the book, look outward to other things. And that makes sense to me, given what I have learned so far.
But in so many threads the DA comes back. And this has been my experience, too. The cycle of course repeats itself then. But I am really perplexed as to why people who have the ability to withdraw and just carry on, seemingly able to move on quite easily (an attribute I wish I had, to be honest)--so often come back? What is it in that attachment style that brings them back again? How does that coming back tie in to the original attachment wound?
I guess I feel that the two actions --withdrawing and disappearing quite firmly--and then coming back -- seem to be at polar opposites. I understand why I want them to come back, but I feel I do not understand what drives them to? I'd appreciate everyone's various perspectives on this, as it is really hard for me to understand.
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Post by anne12 on Jun 22, 2018 13:32:31 GMT
What is it in that attachment style that brings them back again? How does that coming back tie in to the original attachment wound?
A part of the wound could be AP (YO-YO relationship: when you want me, I do not want you, and when you do not want me, I want you)
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Post by notalone on Jun 22, 2018 14:03:21 GMT
I am currently working on my own attachment issues as an AP, I believe one of my closest friends is DA, and it's really interesting to see her current situation from the outside...
When her and her ex broke up she was, in many ways, happy to have space and not be overwhelmed anymore. She plunged in to her work and went out a lot and seemed fine. But since we're so close, she has been open with me that she has moments of really missing and her ex, and she still loves her ex, and that's why she goes back. Sadly, it just creates an endless loop of sadness and fighting, since her and her partner aren't able to give each other what they need in terms of space and intimacy.
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Post by boomerang on Jun 22, 2018 23:43:02 GMT
What is it in that attachment style that brings them back again? How does that coming back tie in to the original attachment wound? A part of the wound could be AP (YO-YO relationship: when you want me, I do not want you, and when you do not want me, I want you) Can you help me understand better how this relates to the parenting style that created the wound? What I understand is that the DA felt smothered or overwhelmed by the parent's anxiety/needs, so learned to be independent. So when an AP pops up and they get involved, they are drawn to that as it is familiar. Just as I am drawn to DA as an AP with my family history. But, where does the "when you do not want me" part come from in that dynamic? Because it does seem that the parent rather does the opposite of "not wanting" the child.
So, where does the DA child feel unwanted? Is it that the "not wanting me" part is really about not meeting the DA child's needs? So it's not hearing and responding to what the child wants, rather than withdrawing from the child (as the AP parent does)?
So (please bear with me as I am working through my thoughts step by step on what is probably obvious to everyone who understands attachment wounds), it's not that that AP "not wanting" the DA is the trigger, it's that the DA who is attached to an AP is drawn back in the hopes that the AP can hear and accept them as separate from themselves and therefore meet their deep emotional need. Is that it?
I think I can understand that--but still have trouble understanding why withdrawal on my AP part makes the DA want to approach as there does not seem to be withdrawal on the part of the parent of a DA (as there is on the part of the parent of an AP).
Totally get why not hearing them and understanding their need to feel safe from engulfment makes them withdraw. Totally get how my DA withdrawing re-enacts my family dynamic. But, why does no contact (whichever side initiates) bring them back?
I am the AP in my relationship, but ironically when he verbalizes that he wants to stop (as opposed to just disappearing--then I pursue), I totally let him go and do not contact him. But he will reach out to me, eventually. And if I open the door, he comes back, and if I am polite but don't, he tries again, always in a rather ambiguous, not direct way. (Why is that?)
You would think it would be the opposite, that in N/C anxious me would keep reaching out and independent he would not.
I guess not feeling engulfed allows him to miss me. So it's not about him feeling that I don't want him (rejection), it's about him feeling that I don't need him. And, it's that separation gives the space to stabilize and to feel if I don't need him I might be able to meet his needs. Is that it? Have I just had an "aha" moment?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 23:47:20 GMT
this isn't hard. for a dismissive, the natural direction to take when triggered is away. it is not necessarily a permanent state. is a triggered AP clinging state, permanent? no. but it is more likely to keep the AP locked in the game. a da is more likely to get triggered and leave and not bother returning l, because we don't need the fix of a relationship. if we do return, it's for natural reasons- there's something there we wish could work, on some level. but will it? hardly. we don't want the same things AP want. this dance works because the dysfunction is equal and continuous.
common sense would benefit here but i can see that personal stakes cloud awareness.
btw- As for the "opposite" natures of distancing and return... i can say the same about AP protest behaviors and return.
it is an illusion to think that AP triggered behavior is moving TOWARD A RELATIONSHIP. it's not. it's like a rat pushing a lever; it's about a fix. it's not about intimacy. it's not about relationship. it's about the SELF.
both attachment styles sabotage intimacy that they crave. simple as that.
if there is a reunion the dance continues, so even if da misses and returns don't get hopes up, it's a dysfunctional dance that takes TWO. but AP needs validation so DA returning is like gold to them even if it hurts them both. sick dance unless two people wake up TOGETHER.
i often leave and don't look back because the reasons i left far outweigh anything holding me. i like clean breaks and getting on to things that i find more fulfilling.
i return if i miss and want something back. this is rare. mostly, when i go, i go, because i am done. i don't struggle with other humans in a battle of wills and differing needs.
i have never ever returned to an AP partner. i say that looking back- before awareness i did get involved with AP but after awareness, i have outgrown that kind of relating.
i returned to a da during awareness because i loved him and we worked better. i don't like the AP/Da dance one bit.
i won't comment much more but that's my input. hope it helps.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 23:52:35 GMT
and yes. if someone needs me like an ap needs a partner, i am done done done because it's unpleasant.
if they don't NNNNEEEEED then maybe there's a chance.
i'm not talking about normal interdependent need. i am talking overdependent AP need. that's a killer for me.
sometimes it looks like an AP is chilling and more able to be stable, so a da returns to try again. i've seen it. haven't seen it work.
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Post by goldilocks on Jun 23, 2018 6:43:07 GMT
I agree with Juniper.
If the ex was AP, I'm probably burned out on the protest behaviours, which are especially abusive to us as DA. That's not a healthy thing to go back to.
I could see myself returning to a secure guy who had left because he thought me to be disinterested, or timing was not right if he would say he likes me a lot and wants to make it work together. I am very aware, so even if I occasionally act counterproductively in the moment, I can always reflect and reconnect.
When I leave, as in breaking up or telling an interest that we will never work I am gone for good on a romantic level. If there is a mutual interest to remain friendly, that is an option. I do have a friend who is AP and we were interested in more in the past, but any argument would put us in AP trap. What I discovered is that spending more than 4 days together would stress me out. (I could easily spend a week with my secure ex) This makes a serious relationship impossible. That said, the friendship is still good, we keep in touch online, play games together and give each other practical advice.
Another reason to return is that the barrier to getting together is now gone. Maybe a guy was living too far away and we ended up in the same town. Maybe he was separated and has now finalized divorce.
If there was a therapy that fully got rid of the protest behaviours, it could be in this last category. I'd be hesitant though. Maybe if he was FA and close to center and otherwise a great match. I think FA can at least appreciate the need for solitude and we can understand each others point of view better. Some AP tend to see the DA needs as morally wrong or as threathening and protest behavior as a valid expression of their need. Then it would never work out.
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Post by anne12 on Jun 23, 2018 11:24:34 GMT
What is it in that attachment style that brings them back again? How does that coming back tie in to the original attachment wound? A part of the wound could be AP (YO-YO relationship: when you want me, I do not want you, and when you do not want me, I want you) Can you help me understand better how this relates to the parenting style that created the wound? What I understand is that the DA felt smothered or overwhelmed by the parent's anxiety/needs, so learned to be independent. So when an AP pops up and they get involved, they are drawn to that as it is familiar. Just as I am drawn to DA as an AP with my family history. But, where does the "when you do not want me" part come from in that dynamic? Because it does seem that the parent rather does the opposite of "not wanting" the child.
So, where does the DA child feel unwanted? Is it that the "not wanting me" part is really about not meeting the DA child's needs? So it's not hearing and responding to what the child wants, rather than withdrawing from the child (as the AP parent does)?
So (please bear with me as I am working through my thoughts step by step on what is probably obvious to everyone who understands attachment wounds), it's not that that AP "not wanting" the DA is the trigger, it's that the DA who is attached to an AP is drawn back in the hopes that the AP can hear and accept them as separate from themselves and therefore meet their deep emotional need. Is that it?
I think I can understand that--but still have trouble understanding why withdrawal on my AP part makes the DA want to approach as there does not seem to be withdrawal on the part of the parent of a DA (as there is on the part of the parent of an AP).
Totally get why not hearing them and understanding their need to feel safe from engulfment makes them withdraw. Totally get how my DA withdrawing re-enacts my family dynamic. But, why does no contact (whichever side initiates) bring them back?
I am the AP in my relationship, but ironically when he verbalizes that he wants to stop (as opposed to just disappearing--then I pursue), I totally let him go and do not contact him. But he will reach out to me, eventually. And if I open the door, he comes back, and if I am polite but don't, he tries again, always in a rather ambiguous, not direct way. (Why is that?)
You would think it would be the opposite, that in N/C anxious me would keep reaching out and independent he would not.
I guess not feeling engulfed allows him to miss me. So it's not about him feeling that I don't want him (rejection), it's about him feeling that I don't need him. And, it's that separation gives the space to stabilize and to feel if I don't need him I might be able to meet his needs. Is that it? Have I just had an "aha" moment?
This is the pattern of the ambivalent in relationships: I am longing, but I do not have. If and when love actually presents itself, they often need to create distance themselves or dismiss the love in order to keep this original identification intact. They then create their own worst nightmare by never being available to receive the love they so actively seek because, paradoxically and predictably, it has to be rejected or deflected for selfidentity to remain intact.
Also: If I miss the other person, it must be love. If I don´t miss the other person, then it is not love.
The ambivalent loses interest if the other is available. The disorganized runs scared back or attacks aggressively
Most people do not only have one attatchmentstyle, but a combination of one or more attatchmentstyles. It can be situational - certain situations triggers you into certain behaviors. It can stem from past relationships, different attatchmentstyle with your mom and dad or other caregivers and also the person you are interacting with can affect your attatchmentstyle. To me, it sounds like you are overfocused about him being avoidant.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 23, 2018 13:18:34 GMT
Hey Boomerang...I understand your line of questioning and have been there myself. To me, it always seemed as if the triggering for the AP and DA dynamic was at the opposite side...for the DA, it is in the coming back and feeling (whether real or perceived) smothered, pressured...for the AP it is in the separating and feeling (whether real or perceived) rejected, abandoned. I think that when an AP backs off, the DA feels relief...now he/she can engage again..but then they feel smothered again....and the cycle begins all over again. I don't think either is right or wrong...it is simply a matter that this dynamic tends to keep both parties feeling dissatisfied.
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Post by boomerang on Jun 23, 2018 13:58:16 GMT
Hey Boomerang...I understand your line of questioning and have been there myself. To me, it always seemed as if the triggering for the AP and DA dynamic was at the opposite side...for the DA, it is in the coming back and feeling (whether real or perceived) smothered, pressured...for the AP it is in the separating and feeling (whether real or perceived) rejected, abandoned. I think that when an AP backs off, the DA feels relief...now he/she can engage again..but then they feel smothered again....and the cycle begins all over again. I don't think either is right or wrong...it is simply a matter that this dynamic tends to keep both parties feeling dissatisfied. This is so true. I don't think he felt smothered-- he had lots of space-- but for sure he felt pressured whenever I wanted to talk about the relationship. And for me, for sure I feel abandoned in a very visceral way. What you wrote makes perfect sense to me. And neither of us can satisfy the other in this dynamic, fundamentally. I know this, logically, but my activation is so very hard to quiet.
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Post by boomerang on Jun 23, 2018 14:30:57 GMT
Anne12, thank you--that is very clear and I appreciate it. I also am thinking about what you said about a mix of attachment styles. I can be very dismissive, rather than tolerant/patient, when I feel demands are being made on me. I can easily go into this mode. But not when the shoe is on the other foot. Full-on AP then (now).
So, I'm thinking about what you said about more than one attachment style in terms of this guy. He is easily dismissive, distances when he perceives conflict, is most comfortable when our time together is limited, needs heaps of his own time, and seems to have a DA attachment style overall. But, at the same time, he is the one who asks me for reassurance of how I feel about him, and he is the one who connected first. He is very private and doesn't share much, but when he does, he actually shows more vulnerability than I allow myself to usually. So in that sense, he seems to have more of an FA attachment style. I think your point is well taken. I do not know much about his family interactions and nothing at all about his past relationships, as he hasn't shared and I haven't asked. I am sure there are situations from his past that are triggering for him, too, outside of attachment style. I have no insight into what those are, but I am sure they also impact our interactions (as some of my past experiences do, too). Thank you for your insights.
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Post by anne12 on Jun 23, 2018 15:26:43 GMT
Anne12, thank you--that is very clear and I appreciate it. I also am thinking about what you said about a mix of attachment styles. I can be very dismissive, rather than tolerant/patient, when I feel demands are being made on me. I can easily go into this mode. But not when the shoe is on the other foot. Full-on AP then (now). So, I'm thinking about what you said about more than one attachment style in terms of this guy. He is easily dismissive, distances when he perceives conflict, is most comfortable when our time together is limited, needs heaps of his own time, and seems to have a DA attachment style overall. But, at the same time, he is the one who asks me for reassurance of how I feel about him, and he is the one who connected first. He is very private and doesn't share much, but when he does, he actually shows more vulnerability than I allow myself to usually. So in that sense, he seems to have more of an FA attachment style. I think your point is well taken. I do not know much about his family interactions and nothing at all about his past relationships, as he hasn't shared and I haven't asked. I am sure there are situations from his past that are triggering for him, too, outside of attachment style. I have no insight into what those are, but I am sure they also impact our interactions (as some of my past experiences do, too). Thank you for your insights. It was the forth and back (yo-yo) that made me think of AP or maybe FA. FA (disorganised) suddenly gets scared with no warning, no matter if the ofter person is available or not. As we do not remember what happens to us, before we become 3 years old, (because our pre frontal cortex is not developed before this age) we might not know all the stuff that has happend to us (but the instinktive part of us knows) Also accidents, surgeries, bulling, a difficult birth, being left in kindergarden for to long, the interactions between our parents ect. can put us out of our secure core of attatchment.
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Post by lilyg on Jun 25, 2018 9:38:09 GMT
I think sometimes absence does make the heart grow fonder Probably if someone leaves a relationship quickly because they are triggered but have not thought that much about it in a honest, extended way, maybe time and space makes them realize they miss you and that they didn't do all it taked to make it work. That they panicked and that person they left gave him or her a solid base for companionship. At least that's what we both my ex and I felt the first time we broke it off, and what happened to me when I became very avoidant on the worst time in my life and left someone that I cared for deeply and had a very good relationship. It has happened to me twice in my life. It's a combination of not thinking much about the decision and the dynamics of the relationship (at least by my experience). I do think it's avoidant leaving issues and getting anxious, but I think the most secure person feels that anxiety too (maybe not in such an intensity). It's a very human thing to feel anxious when somebody you cared won't talk to you. Sad part is, missing somebody a lot it's not all it takes to go back with an ex.
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Post by mrob on Jun 25, 2018 13:13:54 GMT
Anne12, thank you--that is very clear and I appreciate it. I also am thinking about what you said about a mix of attachment styles. I can be very dismissive, rather than tolerant/patient, when I feel demands are being made on me. I can easily go into this mode. But not when the shoe is on the other foot. Full-on AP then (now). So, I'm thinking about what you said about more than one attachment style in terms of this guy. He is easily dismissive, distances when he perceives conflict, is most comfortable when our time together is limited, needs heaps of his own time, and seems to have a DA attachment style overall. But, at the same time, he is the one who asks me for reassurance of how I feel about him, and he is the one who connected first. He is very private and doesn't share much, but when he does, he actually shows more vulnerability than I allow myself to usually. So in that sense, he seems to have more of an FA attachment style. I think your point is well taken. I do not know much about his family interactions and nothing at all about his past relationships, as he hasn't shared and I haven't asked. I am sure there are situations from his past that are triggering for him, too, outside of attachment style. I have no insight into what those are, but I am sure they also impact our interactions (as some of my past experiences do, too). Thank you for your insights. It was the forth and back (yo-yo) that made me think of AP or maybe FA. FA (disorganised) suddenly gets scared with no warning, no matter if the ofter person is available or not. As we do not remember what happens to us, before we become 3 years old, (because our pre frontal cortex is not developed before this age) we might not know all the stuff that has happend to us (but the instinktive part of us knows) Also accidents, surgeries, bulling, a difficult birth, being left in kindergarden for to long, the interactions between our parents ect. can put us out of our secure core of attatchment. Anne, I’ve never felt that terrifying feeling of engulfment like last time. I know it isn’t rational, I know I shouldn’t feel it, but I did. It was real. I could not communicate for a period of time. There are times I feel it with customers, employees, but it’s full on in an intimate relationship.
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Post by recovering71 on Jul 11, 2018 0:03:18 GMT
The avoidant I've been dealing with for 3 years disappeared 7 weeks ago after asking me how my day was. I thought he had moved on which was fine with me but then he sends me a text this past Sunday saying hello. I didn't go off I kept it cordial. I told him I thought he was done and he said "I just need you to chill and let things flow" really? Ironically I haven't heard from him since then hence another dance although after reading these stories Im starting to get turned off by him. Those strong needy feelings are starting to subside and I really don't care if he contacts me again. Do I care for him? of course and ill admit Im not ready for things to end. I am aware of the dance and who we are. Im having a hard time believing this is nit the guy I met 3 years ago..he has become distant cold and selfish AMD maybe a small part of me longs for the guy I met to return but knows it probably want happen. For now Im working on me my business and my health. If he contacts me fine if not even better
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