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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2018 19:15:50 GMT
i understand why you are upset notalone, and why you feel offended. rest assured my intention was not to offend and i tried to express that i am not minimizing your pain. i have endured a lot of loss and suffering also, and have reminded myself and continue to remind myself of what i find to be a liberating truth. If i cannot find joy and peace then i have not suffered enough, the choice is mine. it is a matter of turning my attention willfully to acknowledge and build upon what is right instead of focusing attention on what is wrong. Often, what is right is more real and present, than what is making us suffer. it may or may not resonate with you, it may or may not be framed in a way that is helpful to you. i did not neanbit in quite the way you received it, and by all means, if it negative or harmful to you please disregard it, it is not an attack and you needn't defend yourself from it, i respect whatever process works best for you. i am sharing my voice, to express what i discovered when i lost my home, my job, and was homeless in a women's shelter because my husband was so violent my life was in grave danger. I had 4 children with me, who i needed to guide through this. so i focused on gratitude so we would not be lost in despair. The buddhist teaching on this deals with Right Attention- training ourselves to focus our attention on what is good and sustaining, so that we can better address what needs to be healed. do let us know how it goes! ❤️ |
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Post by notalone on Aug 8, 2018 19:40:10 GMT
You are not alone! Personally when I am feeling that way I find it helpful to accept that BOTH voices likely have a kernel of truth in them, it doesn't have to be just one or the other, but both voices are being too harsh and blame-seeking. Yes, I could have done things differently, but no one is perfect and I can choose to learn and grow from that and be a better version of myself in the future. And yes, he could have done things differently, but it was probably not malicious and he needs to work on his own growth. I think both FA and AP types feel like they need to be perfect. We can do things like choose more suitable partners in the future rather than beating ourselves up over choosing someone unavailable or over our "if onlys," like thinking if only we had done everything perfectly we would have never pushed the last one away. Thanks happyidiot.
We only dated for a few months and he didn't attach, but I did, very quickly. I didn't know about attachment theory when it happened. Now I do. I've learned form this but I'm still struggling to detach. Yes, I'm hard on myself and tend to be a perfectionist. I hope I will figure out how to slow down my attaching and to chose a more suitable partner in the future. Right now, I just want to let go, detach, stop thinking about and wanting him.
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Post by happyidiot on Aug 8, 2018 23:32:59 GMT
You are not alone! Personally when I am feeling that way I find it helpful to accept that BOTH voices likely have a kernel of truth in them, it doesn't have to be just one or the other, but both voices are being too harsh and blame-seeking. Yes, I could have done things differently, but no one is perfect and I can choose to learn and grow from that and be a better version of myself in the future. And yes, he could have done things differently, but it was probably not malicious and he needs to work on his own growth. I think both FA and AP types feel like they need to be perfect. We can do things like choose more suitable partners in the future rather than beating ourselves up over choosing someone unavailable or over our "if onlys," like thinking if only we had done everything perfectly we would have never pushed the last one away. Thanks happyidiot.
We only dated for a few months and he didn't attach, but I did, very quickly. I didn't know about attachment theory when it happened. Now I do. I've learned form this but I'm still struggling to detach. Yes, I'm hard on myself and tend to be a perfectionist. I hope I will figure out how to slow down my attaching and to chose a more suitable partner in the future. Right now, I just want to let go, detach, stop thinking about and wanting him.
I could have written most of that myself! It's interesting how you used the phrase "he didn't attach," I didn't think of it that way before. What would you see as evidence that someone has "attached"? That they wouldn't leave you? Or do you think that avoidants are just never attached? It seems a common situation where a FA pines for some ex who they've idealized, without making moves to try to get back together, so in that case would you also say they were not "attached"? I'm not trying to instill any hope that your ex views you that way, I'm just curious what exactly you mean by "he didn't attach" and in what situations would you consider an FA "attached." It's interesting to me. One FA I dated (who I am over) still contacts me once in a blue moon to call me up drunk and say he's in love with me and then vanish again for another year. That seems to show some kind of attachment to me, even if he doesn't want to be with me. |
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Post by notalone on Aug 9, 2018 0:29:15 GMT
Thanks happyidiot.
We only dated for a few months and he didn't attach, but I did, very quickly. I didn't know about attachment theory when it happened. Now I do. I've learned form this but I'm still struggling to detach. Yes, I'm hard on myself and tend to be a perfectionist. I hope I will figure out how to slow down my attaching and to chose a more suitable partner in the future. Right now, I just want to let go, detach, stop thinking about and wanting him.
I could have written most of that myself! It's interesting how you used the phrase "he didn't attach," I didn't think of it that way before. What would you see as evidence that someone has "attached"? That they wouldn't leave you? Or do you think that avoidants are just never attached? It seems a common situation where a FA pines for some ex who they've idealized, without making moves to try to get back together, so in that case would you also say they were not "attached"? I'm not trying to instill any hope that your ex views you that way, I'm just curious what exactly you mean by "he didn't attach" and in what situations would you consider an FA "attached." It's interesting to me. One FA I dated (who I am over) still contacts me once in a blue moon to call me up drunk and say he's in love with me and then vanish again for another year. That seems to show some kind of attachment to me, even if he doesn't want to be with me. What I meant when I said he didn't attach was he didn’t feel a close bond with or want a committed relationship with me. Not only that but he shared a bunch of stuff with me that adds up to him being fiercely DA (self-proclaimed anti-commitment) and not interested in changing. Meanwhile, I'm AP and working hard to change. So as soon as I learned about attachment theory (a few months in) I ended things with him. It’s just sucky for me that i walk away hurt, and he walks away smiling and ready to jump on the next woman. That’s not an exaggeration. He literally had sex with 2 different women in the 2 weeks after we stopped seeing each other. And told me about it, as if it was some fun convo for us to have. And yet I'm still hung up on him why? Because I, apparently, LOVE dysfunction! (face palm) Anyways, with that definition in mind, and based on my limited understanding, I believe DA and FA can attach, I think all people can attach, it’s just that they have different needs and ways of functioning when attached. I think DA attach less frequently than the other attachment styles, and when they do attach they can detach more cleanly (meaning with less back and forth or rumination) than AP. AP attach quickly, have difficulty letting go, they ruminate and grieve the relationship a lot, and tend to go back to exes. I’m less clear on FA. Maybe brokenbiscuit can fill us in? Or juniper can help clarify? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 0:45:58 GMT
a major difference is as DA i do not attach to painful partners. i don't have an attachment system that says i need another person to feel safe and ok. I feel better alone than with a toxic partner.
My attachment deactivates with pain instead of becoming activated.
i am not triggered to attach to someone who is hurtful to me. if i am attached and someone becomes hurtful to me, i detach easily because i much prefer to be content alone than unhappy with a partner.
i finally attached deeply to my recent partner, as we were not harmful to each other and our intimacy grew over time with trust built. we were not ap/da but da/da.
we have had obstacles but not a toxic dynamic.
detaching from him was very difficult, in the romantic sense. painful! attaching to him was also painful because i had to overcome deactivation impulses.
we are not fully detached at all, as we continue a true friendship.
we are very attached in that sense and maintain that because saying goodbye was an impossibility and undesirable outcome for both of us.
So yes, DA attach deeply and warmly to partners they feel safe with.
i think that AP tend to attach to abandonment figures or people who they feel unsafe with. Then their attachment system prevents them from letting go.
we work in opposite ways.
I can't speak for other DA's who may or may not have actually attached emotionally to toxic partners.
i really don't know.
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Post by notalone on Aug 9, 2018 0:59:39 GMT
a major difference is as DA i do not attach to painful partners. i don't have an attachment system that says i need another person to feel safe and ok. I feel better alone than with a toxic partner. My attachment deactivates with pain instead of becoming activated. i am not triggered to attach to someone who is hurtful to me. if i am attached and someone becomes hurtful to me, i detach easily because i much prefer to be content alone than unhappy with a partner. i finally attached deeply to my recent partner, as we were not harmful to each other and our intimacy grew over time with trust built. we were not ap/da but da/da. we have had obstacles but not a toxic dynamic. detaching from him was very difficult, in the romantic sense. painful! attaching to him was also painful because i had to overcome deactivation impulses. we are not fully detached at all, as we continue a true friendship. we are very attached in that sense and maintain that because saying goodbye was an impossibility and undesirable outcome for both of us. So yes, DA attach deeply and warmly to partners they feel safe with. i think that AP tend to attach to abandonment figures or people who they feel unsafe with. Then their attachment system prevents them from letting go. we work in opposite ways. I can't speak for other DA's who may or may not have actually attached emotionally to toxic partners. i really don't know. Thanks June-bug! Can I call you June-bug? (Feel free to say no  ) |
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Post by notalone on Aug 9, 2018 1:02:03 GMT
Just wanted to share that I met with a new therapist tonight. He seems very sharp, specializes in trauma, does EMDR, somatic therapy and talk therapy. I'm really hoping he can help me!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 2:03:26 GMT
Just wanted to share that I met with a new therapist tonight. He seems very sharp, specializes in trauma, does EMDR, somatic therapy and talk therapy. I'm really hoping he can help me! you can call me June-bug 😜 and speaking of names, i snort occasionally about the funny names on the forum. Above, when your wrote so sincerely: "thanks happyidiot ." 😂 and another favorite, brokenbiscuit especially when someone refers to him as Mr. Biscuit. gaynxious is cute and clever also... ahh, the innernet. Good for you for scoping out a new therapist. Let us know how it goes.  do you feel more hopeful after meeting with him? |
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Post by happyidiot on Aug 9, 2018 6:38:24 GMT
I could have written most of that myself! It's interesting how you used the phrase "he didn't attach," I didn't think of it that way before. What would you see as evidence that someone has "attached"? That they wouldn't leave you? Or do you think that avoidants are just never attached? It seems a common situation where a FA pines for some ex who they've idealized, without making moves to try to get back together, so in that case would you also say they were not "attached"? I'm not trying to instill any hope that your ex views you that way, I'm just curious what exactly you mean by "he didn't attach" and in what situations would you consider an FA "attached." It's interesting to me. One FA I dated (who I am over) still contacts me once in a blue moon to call me up drunk and say he's in love with me and then vanish again for another year. That seems to show some kind of attachment to me, even if he doesn't want to be with me. What I meant when I said he didn't attach was he didn’t feel a close bond with or want a committed relationship with me. Not only that but he shared a bunch of stuff with me that adds up to him being fiercely DA (self-proclaimed anti-commitment) and not interested in changing. Meanwhile, I'm AP and working hard to change. So as soon as I learned about attachment theory (a few months in) I ended things with him. It’s just sucky for me that i walk away hurt, and he walks away smiling and ready to jump on the next woman. That’s not an exaggeration. He literally had sex with 2 different women in the 2 weeks after we stopped seeing each other. And told me about it, as if it was some fun convo for us to have. And yet I'm still hung up on him why? Because I, apparently, LOVE dysfunction! (face palm) Anyways, with that definition in mind, and based on my limited understanding, I believe DA and FA can attach, I think all people can attach, it’s just that they have different needs and ways of functioning when attached. I think DA attach less frequently than the other attachment styles, and when they do attach they can detach more cleanly (meaning with less back and forth or rumination) than AP. AP attach quickly, have difficulty letting go, they ruminate and grieve the relationship a lot, and tend to go back to exes. I’m less clear on FA. Maybe brokenbiscuit can fill us in? Or juniper can help clarify? Thanks for explaining. That makes sense. I guess because I saw so much of myself in your posts I assumed you were talking about an FA, not DA. I don't have as much experience with people I suspect are DAs, just one I can think of. I can't imagine him being very attached to anyone even though he really enjoys spending time with people and he certainly didn't get attached to me, he truly considered me as only a FWB. He always seems happy. Maybe it's a blessing that this DA is being straight up with you and telling you he is anti-commitment and has been having sex with other people. Don't beat yourself up. It's possible to be emotionally hung up on someone and still act rationally and behave in a way that overrides your attachment system. |
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Aug 9, 2018 9:18:12 GMT
FAs do ruminate and attach madly. One thing most people forget, probably because of the name Fearful Avoidant, is that FAs are as anxious as APs are! We are neurotic, obsessive and lovesick. So yes, we do attach wildly and become absolutely besotted and obsessive in love and all that, BUT we only tend to be that way with a select few or (in my case) just one person. If we don't attach then we become typical avoidant and can walk away from a relationship easily.
If an FA has become attached to you, you will know it. We will text, call, obsess on you, and generally be annoying. But if you want a relationship with us, it will terrify us and we will run away and then start the whole "obsession from afar" business all over again. Confusing and annoying, hysterical and conflicting, that's a fearful type! I have only been this way with one person in my life and that's with the one person I fell in love with, if you can call what I felt true love and not a weird psychological obsession
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Aug 9, 2018 9:19:49 GMT
Just wanted to share that I met with a new therapist tonight. He seems very sharp, specializes in trauma, does EMDR, somatic therapy and talk therapy. I'm really hoping he can help me! EMDR has very good results from what I have read but is not an easy process. Ensure your therapist knows what he or she is doing before you undertake this (make sure they know about grounding, gradual processes, etc). I may be trying this process later in the year myself Somatic is meant to be excellent too |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 11:27:49 GMT
in terms of how avoidants do relationships,
it seems to me that DA is a slow burn and FA is a flash in the pan.
ap is a grease fire.
this isn't meant to be critical it's a kitchen story about insecure attachment flames 👩🏽🍳
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Post by notalone on Aug 9, 2018 13:12:41 GMT
Just wanted to share that I met with a new therapist tonight. He seems very sharp, specializes in trauma, does EMDR, somatic therapy and talk therapy. I'm really hoping he can help me! you can call me June-bug 😜 and speaking of names, i snort occasionally about the funny names on the forum. Above, when your wrote so sincerely: "thanks happyidiot ." 😂 and another favorite, brokenbiscuit especially when someone refers to him as Mr. Biscuit. gaynxious is cute and clever also... ahh, the innernet. Good for you for scoping out a new therapist. Let us know how it goes. do you feel more hopeful after meeting with him? Yay! June-bug it is I had a giggle when I wrote "thanks happyidiot" as well! And thank-you for mentioning Mr. Biscuit. It's excellent, and that's how I shall refer to him from now on! |
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Post by notalone on Aug 9, 2018 13:18:51 GMT
Just wanted to share that I met with a new therapist tonight. He seems very sharp, specializes in trauma, does EMDR, somatic therapy and talk therapy. I'm really hoping he can help me! you can call me June-bug 😜 and speaking of names, i snort occasionally about the funny names on the forum. Above, when your wrote so sincerely: "thanks happyidiot ." 😂 and another favorite, brokenbiscuit especially when someone refers to him as Mr. Biscuit. gaynxious is cute and clever also... ahh, the innernet. Good for you for scoping out a new therapist. Let us know how it goes. do you feel more hopeful after meeting with him? Thanks June-bug. I do feel some hope. I see a lot of potential. And I have one concern: He does not specialize in attachment. He does work with trauma though. But when I told him I was hooked on the unavailable guy and have 2 voices - one that says stay the course and see if he'd eventually fall for me, and another that says run baby run, he asked me why? That threw me. I felt like someone who understood attachment theory would not have asked me that. I felt like replying "Duh! Because I'm AP!" I didn't say that thought. Instead I explained based on what I read about how and why anxious people attach to unhealthy people. Anyways, he has a great skill set and seems very sharp but I do worry about a possible gap in his knowledge of attachment. Thoughts? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 13:32:47 GMT
i would guess he is a good therapist, asking questions to prompt you to explore that thought and see what you come up with.
a good therapist is a listener as much as an educator.
however, if you meet with him and find it's not what you're looking for, do what we should do with unsuitable partners of any kind.... "Next!..." 😄
if you know what you need (attachment issue work) and you have to swim upstream to get that with a therapist who doesn't address that directly, then honor you and keep looking for what you need.
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