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Post by rubyred on Aug 7, 2018 15:36:57 GMT
I'm in the midst of a breakup with my boyfriend of 6 years. We are both in our fifties, so we come with our own histories. His is a background of family trauma - mentally ill mother, absent father. Through the flaws - of mine and his - I love him. Truly loved him.
After five years of dating, and feeling the resistance regarding commitment and plans for the future almost the entire time, I grew anxious. There was a plan for me to move into his house and the week prior he said he couldn't have me there - too many memories of a former partner who had cancer and an illness in the family (his sister also diagnosed with cancer). This hit my own childhood wounds and they were projected on him. I apologized for my anxious behavior and sought therapy to work on myself, and soothe myself. The past year, since this happened, there has been so much strain and distance. It's true, I did pull away. But I had hoped ending the push/pull would mean he would come forward. I know that he loves me, but he never made that commitment in the five years we were doing very well together.
Fast forward to now... There was a house we were interested in purchasing. He said he needed a 'third place' for us to be together. The house was not on the market, but we were interested in keeping an eye on it. It was in an 'estate' phase after a death in the family. While I was on vacation last month, he made an offer on the house and purchased it. He didn't include me in the plan. He didn't discuss how 'we' were doing this together. It just happened.
I've met my breaking point. Whenever he talked about the future, there was no 'us' 'we' or 'our'. He's now mad that I'm stating my truth. I'm not there in the picture. If you can't imagine or plan a future together, you don't get one. How am I supposed to think of this other than an 'I'm moving on' with him purchasing the house and making plans for the remodeling, but not a plan about how 'we' are to live in it together. I think he is living with the illusion that I will move in - like a roommate or something. I wanted to marry this man.
I'm heartbroken. I have a lot of compassion for him, and still much, much love. I'm being blamed for not seeing his perspective, BUT he's never shared his perspective and what is in his heart and his vision for the future of us.
Need just some words of support. I know, intellectually, he will not change or open his life up fully to me. But it hurts. It hurts that he sees me as controlling and manipulative (!??!?!) for just wanting to be with him.
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Post by rubyred on Aug 7, 2018 21:04:04 GMT
Thanks, helsbells. Sending you some strength as well. There is something about all of this that digs deep and difficult to recover from. Sometimes I feel my brain and my heart are both so twisted up. Something I feel so simply, and express so freely, like truly loving someone and planning a life together, is not at all within reach for him. How do dismissive avoidants live knowing that they did not choose love?
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Post by ocarina on Aug 7, 2018 21:24:03 GMT
Hi Rubyred - yes I feel your pain too - and the recognition that you have done what can be done and despite the fact you both love and care for each other deeply the situation isn't fulfilling your needs.
Six years is a long time - and even longer if you have been working hard at a relationship - the investment makes it even more difficult to let go.
You sound wise enough to realise that there is no golden key here - nothing you do will affect him and bring about change - it's tragic but accepting this is the first step towards being truly free. I am not sure what stage you're at in this relationship but please know you're not alone, difficult and lonely as it may seem.
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Post by rubyred on Aug 7, 2018 21:49:46 GMT
Thanks helsbells and ocarina.
Getting through a breakup and beyond it will require:
-Accepting the things you cannot change.
-The revolt and denial that goes on through a breakup is just another data point providing evidence that any discussion of difficult emotions will only be avoided and dismissed.
-Taking a good look at your own stuff. I'm asking myself: why was the passionate attraction there in the first place? what signs did I decide not to see? where are my own commitment issues in this? why did I agree to stuff my feelings and desires down for so long? was my empathy and compassion knowingly used against me?
-Remembering that I am only human. I have my own flaws. I have my own wounds. That's okay. I'm trying to do my best, just like everyone else.
-The demise of the relationship will never fully be 'explained'. One person is trying to bring the trauma out into the light, the other person is doing their best to keep it in the dark.
-Self-care is required. Good friends, a therapist, long walks, hot baths, good books are all necessary to get through the hard times. These are the hard times.
-The avoidant partner is also trying to do their best. Sadly it is not what is needed by the partner who desires emotional intimacy on a consistent basis. That DOES NOT make us needy or unreasonable. Many, many people crave this and are willing to put their hearts out there for it.
What do you add to the list?
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Post by ocarina on Aug 8, 2018 6:03:24 GMT
I think that's a pretty good list - my personal number one point would be
Ability to be with difficult feelings and really experience them. This is what has brought me the greatest healing.
I like your last point too - being secure does not mean having no needs - it means recognising the legitimate ones and being aware enough to realise that your own needs are important as well as those of your partner. If this means walking away from a relationship where you're incompatible then so be it - but selling your soul to fit someone elses pattern is a recipe for deep sadness.
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Post by rubyred on Aug 8, 2018 14:16:04 GMT
Yes, ocarina. Thank you.
You are real about sitting with and making space for the difficult feelings. The feelings need to be acknowledged, accepted and FELT. Feel the feelings.
I do feel anger and resentment for being perceived as the needy and insecure one. Today, this is making me furious! I'm going to try to use this anger in a productive way. I do realize my own attachment wounds were activated. I will own that. I can't imagine that even the most secure person wouldn't feel insecure with out any clarity around relationship. I will also own up to the fact that it is me who has stayed. The red flags were there after the first year. I didn't want to see them. Frankly, I didn't realize how deep his scars were. I'd never been in a situation like this before. My boyfriend was a great boyfriend: showed affection, was dependable, supported me, was responsive. He was responsive in every way EXCEPT in making a commitment to the relationship or willing to have a real discussion about the future. I was made to feel ridiculous about wanting a plan! Augh, today I am mad. I'm still in the throws of the breakup. I need to get to a different place - eventually.
Ocarina, how long has it been since your breakup?
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Post by epicgum on Aug 8, 2018 16:41:03 GMT
Ocarina, did your partner understand attachment theory that he was avoidant?
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Post by ocarina on Aug 8, 2018 19:11:47 GMT
Ocarina, did your partner understand attachment theory that he was avoidant? To answer your question Rubyred we have been apart 18 months. We didn't label his behaviour but he was aware that he had problems with commitment in general, every relationship he ever had made him feel engulfed and the ex was labelled as mad - although when we met he had had an epiphany, realising that he was the common denominator in all the madness! I have two children (of a total of 6!) on the autistic spectrum and have my suspicions about myself and him also - it can present in a very similar way to DA behaviour and we did discuss this at length - we are both the archetypical lone wolf - me much less so. He feels disgust for marriage and despite being in his late forties and having multiple short term partners I was the longest of his relationships and one of only two that he had actually labelled as such. He told me he was aware he was in his own words neglectful in relationships, felt they were an obligation. The most difficult aspect was a kind of lack of presence -when we were together he was very often drinking, focusing on work until the small hours, just not really being there for himself or for me, he also has difficulties with feelings - I think they are there but he cannot access them - and over the course of 6 years, he never told me he loved me and frequently behaved as though I wasn't there. I suspect he had some kind of childhood sexual abuse - he mentioned this once but shrugged it off when I asked later - but my gut says it's not something you'd mention if it wasn't somehow grounded in reality. I used to think that being aware of a condition or an attachment style could be the way to a "cure" but nowadays I am now so sure - for me the labelling and rationalising and learning was a way to avoid having to deal with the very painful feelings that being in this relationship brought up in me. I am well on the way to peace at last and life is once again a joy but it was a rocky road. |
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Post by rubyred on Aug 8, 2018 22:05:13 GMT
Thanks for sharing your story, Ocarina.
I once dated a man (and I'm sure I'll need to examine my choices through my recovery and healing period!) who was on the spectrum - Aspergers for certain. There were many things that attracted me: intelligence, curiosity, adventurous, etc. I really loved getting to know his mind and he was very kind to me. Alas, a long term relationship was never going to be in the cards with him. He simply just didn't need people very much. His world was very expansive in terms of intelligence and global travel, but his need for intimacy was nowhere near the average person, let alone with me. So, what I'm getting to is that the spectrum and dismissive can overlap, that's for certain. Frankly, I find autism fascinating and people with autism are generally super-interesting. Understanding the man I dated as having a legitimate limitation made it easier for me to be with him, to value our friendship.
I think what's hard about the general dismissive or fearful avoidant is that it seems within the realm of awareness and treatment, but I'm finding out more and more that you can't do enough therapy or talk enough with your partner to finally 'get it' and deal with your shit. You either DO, or you don't open that dark, pandora's box. It's a sad, sad thing. For us, and for them.
I know my boyfriend knows that he is 'emotionally damaged' (his words, not mine) and he knows the source of this is his dysfunctional family - his mother in particular. There is an awareness. He must know that these issues have shown up in ALL his relationships. But, he doesn't go so far as to open up the dark stuff. It's so vacuum-packed in there!
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Post by epicgum on Aug 8, 2018 22:41:18 GMT
Ocarina, did your partner understand attachment theory that he was avoidant? To answer your question Rubyred we have been apart 18 months. We didn't label his behaviour but he was aware that he had problems with commitment in general, every relationship he ever had made him feel engulfed and the ex was labelled as mad - although when we met he had had an epiphany, realising that he was the common denominator in all the madness! I have two children (of a total of 6!) on the autistic spectrum and have my suspicions about myself and him also - it can present in a very similar way to DA behaviour and we did discuss this at length - we are both the archetypical lone wolf - me much less so. He feels disgust for marriage and despite being in his late forties and having multiple short term partners I was the longest of his relationships and one of only two that he had actually labelled as such. He told me he was aware he was in his own words neglectful in relationships, felt they were an obligation. The most difficult aspect was a kind of lack of presence -when we were together he was very often drinking, focusing on work until the small hours, just not really being there for himself or for me, he also has difficulties with feelings - I think they are there but he cannot access them - and over the course of 6 years, he never told me he loved me and frequently behaved as though I wasn't there. I suspect he had some kind of childhood sexual abuse - he mentioned this once but shrugged it off when I asked later - but my gut says it's not something you'd mention if it wasn't somehow grounded in reality. I used to think that being aware of a condition or an attachment style could be the way to a "cure" but nowadays I am now so sure - for me the labelling and rationalising and learning was a way to avoid having to deal with the very painful feelings that being in this relationship brought up in me. I am well on the way to peace at last and life is once again a joy but it was a rocky road. Interesting, I can see a lot of myself in your former partner. (Can't say ILY, can't make solid commitments for the future, can't talk about my feelings, work dominates everything, had to have the freedom to do my own thing etc.) For myself, the most tragic part is that I realized that I had commitment issues from the very first date, but was afraid to voice them cause I was worried they would bolt. Then a year in we had a squabble/breakup and I bought the "Attached" book, I read through a bit of it, but then I got to the chapter that tells anxious people they should just give up on avoidants and I was pissed off and (metaphorically) chucked it. Only after the the final (?) breakup 2 years later did I read the rest of the book and get to the part that talked about the avoidant attachment style and what steps you should take to overcome it. It's very distressing to me, because had I finished the damn book I feel like I could have adjusted my own thinking and been able to better meet my partners needs and not be in a world of hurt right now! (It is really quite eerie how closely my own feelings /emotions followed the script laid out for the avoidant partner.) My underlying point is....you can't address a problem that you don't fully understand. I just ignored my commitment issues and hoped they'd disappear...but they didn't. If you have an avoidant attachment you can't just rely on your feelings, because your feelings are self-destructive. Your feelings say that you should be alone and run from everyone, and without external knowledge there's no way to understand that these feelings are not actually in your long term interest. |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 9, 2018 15:36:32 GMT
I am not sure I expressed myself clearly - relying on and believing in feelings was not the route to healing, it was allowing them to appear and b experienced. If reading to the end of the book was enough then we would surely have very few people posting here. Sadly from what I have observed knowledge alone is not enough to initiate change in the majority of people. Often these patterns of behavior are so deeply ingrained that it takes years to make any discernible impact. Recognizing and accepting is the first step in a very long and rocky road for most people. Maybe this is not true for you Epiigum but if only life fe were as easy as reading and understanding.....
Often in our quest to rationalize we miss the healing part - or at least as an avoidant I find this is often the case. The most important part by far o my ow journey has been the recognition and ability to experience difficult emotions without buying into their story. This is an ongoing process and habitual behaviors resurface again and again requiring the same patient approach before they finally are extinguished. I am Uber logical and rational - but in this stuff it was a hinderence rather than a help and experiencing within the body has been my golden key.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2018 15:50:52 GMT
I am not sure I expressed myself clearly - relying on and believing in feelings was not the route to healing, it was allowing them to appear and b experienced. If reading to the end of the book was enough then we would surely have very few people posting here. Sadly from what I have observed knowledge alone is not enough to initiate change in the majority of people. Often these patterns of behavior are so deeply ingrained that it takes years to make any discernible impact. Recognizing and accepting is the first step in a very long and rocky road for most people. Maybe this is not true for you Epiigum but if only life fe were as easy as reading and understanding..... Often in our quest to rationalize we miss the healing part - or at least as an avoidant I find this is often the case. The most important part by far o my ow journey has been the recognition and ability to experience difficult emotions without buying into their story. This is an ongoing process and habitual behaviors resurface again and again requiring the same patient approach before they finally are extinguished. I am Uber logical and rational - but in this stuff it was a hinderence rather than a help and experiencing within the body has been my golden key. amen. |
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Post by epicgum on Aug 9, 2018 16:26:49 GMT
Hmmm, interesting ocarina! I appreciate your thoughts...are there any exercises or other resources you could point me towards that you found helpful?
Did you have the experience of suddenly being flooded with emotions after the threat of connection had passed? I feel confident now in my ability to fully love my ex-partner, but I suppose I won't be truly tested unless she comes back or I make a similar connection with someone new.
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Post by ocarina on Aug 9, 2018 17:05:20 GMT
Hmmm, interesting ocarina! I appreciate your thoughts...are there any exercises or other resources you could point me towards that you found helpful? Did you have the experience of suddenly being flooded with emotions after the threat of connection had passed? I feel confident now in my ability to fully love my ex-partner, but I suppose I won't be truly tested unless she comes back or I make a similar connection with someone new. Thank you and apologies if I came across as dismissive of your experience - truly knowledge and understanding is the gateway but there's an ongoing journey from this point which is the real crux of changing beliefs and understanding in a permanent way. My partner was more severely avoidant than myself and we went through a series of break ups - the final time he was very aware of what was going on dynamic wise, had been practicing mindfulness for some time and was becoming adept as navigating through the things that would have caused a freak out in the past. Unfortunately, when a series of life events increased the stress on both sides, he pretty much shut down - for months and this made the relationship untenable for me. Before the life pressures arose he was absolutely confident that now he understood and had some tools he would be able to succeed in remaining present and open - but this is easy to say when the triggers are removed! If you have a look at my thread on here, 18 months down the line having appeared to feel very little at the time of our separation (although appearances are deceptive), he is now extremely desperate to reconnect, says he has been living in denial of his feelings. Shortly after the breakup he contacted me to say he was distracting himself in order to cope and "working on things". Outside of a relationship it's very difficult to actually predict how you will cope when the sh** hits the fan next time - but previous behaviour tends to be the best predictor! So knowledge and awareness are the best starting place - resource wise, learning to sit with feelings has helped me immensely to separate my mad aunt in the attic voice from reality - if you're relatively new to this then maybe doing a mindfulness course to gently ease into sitting with experience rather than clinging to it, might be a good start - this is free and I really recommend it: palousemindfulness.com/I think for me at least it would take a basis in this practice before I could actually begin to apply the methods to the relational field which is often where it's most challenging, so starting with the small stuff and establishing the habit is probably wise. tealswan.com/resources/articles/fear-of-commitment/ this is a helpful read. There are people here much better able to recommend specific exercises than me, but hope the above might be a starter - and also it is good to hear that you're open to learning and working - again, that is where growth starts. |
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Post by epicgum on Aug 9, 2018 19:18:51 GMT
Thanks for these resources ocarina! I will check them out! Hmmm, yes I can identify with your ex bf quite a bit!
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