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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 6:53:57 GMT
and ocarina, this is exactly what i mean when i say that being with my avoidant partner made me a better person. he gave me a safe space to be my authentic self. we did that for each other. i was inspired by the connection that we forged together. i was also inspired by him. i saw him, and i saw him be authentic with me. it wasn't all bliss and roses. it was a process of coming-to-be. our outcome, is not the point, unless you count two human beings that treat each other with respect, gentleness, and consistent trust, an important outcome. Oh yeah--- i guess the outcome we have, is a pretty good one. it may not be what you hope for or expect, it may be even better. a new you. 🌸  |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 10, 2018 10:38:08 GMT
Juniper I so understand what you went through in your last relationship. My partner and I had a similar experience and it was the first real closeness I have had ever experienced in a romantic partnership. Unfortunately we could not sustain it and many of his extreme distancing behaviors got in the way - and caused me to close down also. I have no real experience but I suspect to avoid the shut down that many of us avoidants use in self defense, it takes a conscious and repeated decision not to deactivate taken time and time again by both parties. Maybe this is what I understand by love - choosing loving presence again and again rather than falling back into destructive habitual behaviors. This is my path in many areas of life at the moment and it’s an inspiring and challenging journey. Thanks for your encouragement.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 11:41:04 GMT
Juniper I so understand what you went through in your last relationship. My partner and I had a similar experience and it was the first real closeness I have had ever experienced in a romantic partnership. Unfortunately we could not sustain it and many of his extreme distancing behaviors got in the way - and caused me to close down also. I have no real experience but I suspect to avoid the shut down that many of us avoidants use in self defense, it takes a conscious and repeated decision not to deactivate taken time and time again by both parties. Maybe this is what I understand by love - choosing loving presence again and again rather than falling back into destructive habitual behaviors. This is my path in many areas of life at the moment and it’s an inspiring and challenging journey. Thanks for your encouragement. this is exactly it- choosing loving presence time after time. the difficulty of overcoming my survival instinct was more difficult and painful than i could imagine when it came to this. i didn't realize how powerfully my nervous system was operating until i experienced seemingly being unable to stop the process and coming out on the other side hurt and sad with him hurt and sad too. It was really rough, and at first all i could do was come back to the surface of us feeling ruined. and accept some kindness, and try again next time. i was opening to a vulnerability that didn't want to be exposed and it was i think both an act of will and some grace and a miracle to be able to keep going. im not completely better, maybe i will always have to take care of it. thats ok. ocarina , it's very difficult to go against the amygdela! sometimes, i look back and see i wasn't even offerred a choice, i was unable to see what was even going on in me. so that took time and repetition also. The other areas of my life have been much more possible to open to than an intimate partner. Oh man it was really really hard to keep my armor off. but it got better. i'm a real person and i don't lie by omission to him anymore to hide myself and that feels really awesome and free. i feel relaxed on a whole new level. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 11:53:43 GMT
and it occurs to me- neither of us use intoxicants of any kind.
i think this was a huge advantage to being able to work through some things.
numbing or distorting agents would have rendered this impossible.
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Post by ocarina on Aug 10, 2018 14:01:52 GMT
and it occurs to me- neither of us use intoxicants of any kind. i think this was a huge advantage to being able to work through some things. numbing or distorting agents would have rendered this impossible. In our relationship - and in his life in general he has used alcohol in particular, but in the past, cannabis and recreational drugs, as tools of avoidance. I am not sure that he is in a classic sense an alcoholic, but it was obvious that he drunk to avoid feeling - and when we separated he drunk more. I think there's alot going on in his past which has never surfaced and I have no idea if he understands the enormity of the task that healing is. I came a long way during our relationship and if I am sure of anything, it's that I only ever want a partner who is able and willing to grow in awareness and open intimacy during a relationship. Every other kind of coupling seems meaningless to me now. I agree 100% with the above and have always been wary of partners who drink heavily or used drugs since it seems to me to signal an unwillingness or inability to really be present which - whilst I am far from perfect myself, is something I aspire to. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 14:09:12 GMT
and it occurs to me- neither of us use intoxicants of any kind. i think this was a huge advantage to being able to work through some things. numbing or distorting agents would have rendered this impossible. In our relationship - and in his life in general he has used alcohol in particular, but in the past, cannabis and recreational drugs, as tools of avoidance. I am not sure that he is in a classic sense an alcoholic, but it was obvious that he drunk to avoid feeling - and when we separated he drunk more. I think there's alot going on in his past which has never surfaced and I have no idea if he understands the enormity of the task that healing is. I came a long way during our relationship and if I am sure of anything, it's that I only ever want a partner who is able and willing to grow in awareness and open intimacy during a relationship. Every other kind of coupling seems meaningless to me now. I agree 100% with the above and have always been wary of partners who drink heavily or used drugs since it seems to me to signal an unwillingness or inability to really be present which - whilst I am far from perfect myself, is something I aspire to. absolutely. every action begins in our mind and if the mind is clouded by intoxicants, resultant thoughts and behaviors will be impaired. our brains are impacted in serious and signicant ways by our experiences and by what we ingest! If we are working with the nervous system to heal, and we ARE, then of course our nervous system needs to be functioning without chemical interference as part of that undertaking. I'm not talking about strict abstinence , but if intoxicants are being used to replace healthy coping skills, that needs to be addressed first. If we want our car engine to function we need to supply fuel, not drano. It's fundamental. |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 10, 2018 14:32:15 GMT
In our relationship - and in his life in general he has used alcohol in particular, but in the past, cannabis and recreational drugs, as tools of avoidance. I am not sure that he is in a classic sense an alcoholic, but it was obvious that he drunk to avoid feeling - and when we separated he drunk more. I think there's alot going on in his past which has never surfaced and I have no idea if he understands the enormity of the task that healing is. I came a long way during our relationship and if I am sure of anything, it's that I only ever want a partner who is able and willing to grow in awareness and open intimacy during a relationship. Every other kind of coupling seems meaningless to me now. I agree 100% with the above and have always been wary of partners who drink heavily or used drugs since it seems to me to signal an unwillingness or inability to really be present which - whilst I am far from perfect myself, is something I aspire to. absolutely. every action begins in our mind and if the mind is clouded by intoxicants, resultant thoughts and behaviors will be impaired. our brains are impacted in serious and signicant ways by our experiences and by what we ingest! If we are working with the nervous system to heal, and we ARE, then of course our nervous system needs to be functioning without chemical interference as part of that undertaking. I'm not talking about strict abstinence , but if intoxicants are being used to replace healthy coping skills, that needs to be addressed first. If we want our car engine to function we need to supply fuel, not drano. It's fundamental. This - and the very act of taking mind altering substances repeatedly which suggests a lack of ability or willingness to be with what is. I do not mean this in a judgemental way, just as an observation - relating requires courageous presence. |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 10, 2018 14:35:26 GMT
We are meeting tomorrow for some walking and talking - and he asked, when I couldn't make the date/ time he asked when would be good and we now have a firm date and time. In advance.
The planning of meetings was a real difficulty when we were together - it had to be his last minute instigation - which when you have more than one job, multiple young children and a life, doesn't work very well. So this plan is a change and a good one.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 14:40:35 GMT
absolutely. every action begins in our mind and if the mind is clouded by intoxicants, resultant thoughts and behaviors will be impaired. our brains are impacted in serious and signicant ways by our experiences and by what we ingest! If we are working with the nervous system to heal, and we ARE, then of course our nervous system needs to be functioning without chemical interference as part of that undertaking. I'm not talking about strict abstinence , but if intoxicants are being used to replace healthy coping skills, that needs to be addressed first. If we want our car engine to function we need to supply fuel, not drano. It's fundamental. This - and the very act of taking mind altering substances repeatedly which suggests a lack of ability or willingness to be with what is. I do not mean this in a judgemental way, just as an observation - relating requires courageous presence. i'm in full agreement! courageous presence. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 14:41:41 GMT
We are meeting tomorrow for some walking and talking - and he asked, when I couldn't make the date/ time he asked when would be good and we now have a firm date and time. In advance. The planning of meetings was a real difficulty when we were together - it had to be his last minute instigation - which when you have more than one job, multiple young children and a life, doesn't work very well. So this plan is a change and a good one. what a nice invitation to respond to! what a nice present moment. |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 10, 2018 14:44:21 GMT
Exactly - sorted! Back to the present of a peaceful weekend. Going to honour my tiredness, tie some work ends up then rest - yoga later, maybe a run and something delicious to eat.
We have had a hot dry summer for months here - and it's just broken with monsoon like rain - something to celebrate and be grateful for!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 15:03:37 GMT
Exactly - sorted! Back to the present of a peaceful weekend. Going to honour my tiredness, tie some work ends up then rest - yoga later, maybe a run and something delicious to eat. We have had a hot dry summer for months here - and it's just broken with monsoon like rain - something to celebrate and be grateful for! yes- sorted! now on the other things! our monsoon has been gorgeous. a nice walk in the woods after a good drench is one of my favorite things. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 15:04:52 GMT
btw ocarina it's enriching for me to witness your process. thank you for sharing it. 🌸 |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 10, 2018 15:42:23 GMT
btw ocarina it's enriching for me to witness your process. thank you for sharing it. 🌸 It's a two way thing for sure - I am inspired by your journey thus far and because in many ways your process has been along a similar path and through similar teachings it really really helps to share and to listen to your experience. I haven't really met many in real life whose story I can in some way relate to, in particular women. Friendship, even virtual friendship, is a great gift so thank you! |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 11, 2018 19:30:42 GMT
I did it! In as much full presence as I could muster, which was a reasonable amount. My ex partner and I met and walked and talked. Towards the end he told me he had been in denial, that he had pretended to himself he was fine, that he told himself a story about not wanting to be with anyone, not needing anyone, that he was better alone. He said that over time he could no longer pretend and that he loved me.
This is the first time after a 6 year relationship that he has actually said it.
I feel beyond everything a huge relief that this connection which I felt and mourned so deeply wasn't in my imagination. Also a huge lightness that the two of us after so long, have managed to be frank and honest and open with each other.
I also feel so proud of myself for dealing with the pain and hurt from our breakup - it has enabled me now to see this from a place of real clarity.
We didn't talk about the what now - and I am unsure really what to do going forward - my path for now is simply to continue the practice of being here, working through things as they come up. Communication that is clear and authentic has to be at the route of our future - whether it's a friendship or something else. Being honest is such freedom and I thank you all here for your support on this journey. How lucky I am.
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