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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 21:01:01 GMT
I did it! In as much full presence as I could muster, which was a reasonable amount. My ex partner and I met and walked and talked. Towards the end he told me he had been in denial, that he had pretended to himself he was fine, that he told himself a story about not wanting to be with anyone, not needing anyone, that he was better alone. He said that over time he could no longer pretend and that he loved me. This is the first time after a 6 year relationship that he has actually said it. I feel beyond everything a huge relief that this connection which I felt and mourned so deeply wasn't in my imagination. Also a huge lightness that the two of us after so long, have managed to be frank and honest and open with each other. I also feel so proud of myself for dealing with the pain and hurt from our breakup - it has enabled me now to see this from a place of real clarity. We didn't talk about the what now - and I am unsure really what to do going forward - my path for now is simply to continue the practice of being here, working through things as they come up. Communication that is clear and authentic has to be at the route of our future - whether it's a friendship or something else. Being honest is such freedom and I thank you all here for your support on this journey. How lucky I am. i have more to say, i'm at work- but not a bad present moment, sister. 😉 |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 11, 2018 21:09:53 GMT
Indeed - it's strange and I know to many people I will seem properly strange, but the unknown is not a worry - I don't need a plan or a commitment or anything else - the important and lovely moment is to feel seen and loved and be able to offer that in return.
Gosh quite a journey this is.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 21:40:04 GMT
Indeed - it's strange and I know to many people I will seem properly strange, but the unknown is not a worry - I don't need a plan or a commitment or anything else - the important and lovely moment is to feel seen and loved and be able to offer that in return. Gosh quite a journey this is. that's why i said it, i'm the same way. if the moment is good then i'm good. i don't worry too much about what's going to happen . if i'm loved in the moment and know it, and if you're loved in the moment and know it, the future takes care of itself. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 21:43:20 GMT
actually ocarina, that's all i have to say , right there. great job. it's tough allowing ourselves to see, to be seen- until it isn't. very proud of you. |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 11, 2018 21:50:33 GMT
actually ocarina , that's all i have to say , right there. great job. it's tough allowing ourselves to see, to be seen- until it isn't. very proud of you. It is really tough - or at least it is for me and perhaps for you too, I am hoping it get easier with practice. Honestly sometimes I feel like the most ridiculous person in the world - there in front of me is the person I love most in the world, declaring undying love for the first time ever and I am semi tongue tied talking about the clouds and my supper. That being said I was honest and brave and everything else. We are strange beasts indeed. Thanks Juniper |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 22:08:24 GMT
actually ocarina , that's all i have to say , right there. great job. it's tough allowing ourselves to see, to be seen- until it isn't. very proud of you. It is really tough - or at least it is for me and perhaps for you too, I am hoping it get easier with practice. Honestly sometimes I feel like the most ridiculous person in the world - there in front of me is the person I love most in the world, declaring undying love for the first time ever and I am semi tongue tied talking about the clouds and my supper. That being said I was honest and brave and everything else. We are strange beasts indeed. Thanks Juniper it does get easier. it seems i got a lot of practice in other areas and other relationships, and my ongoing relationship with my former partner (that's a shitty label but there is none that fit) is the real proving ground. it is easy for me to be relaxed and genuine, and that is still a huge blessing for me. if i begin to hide i can feel it in my chest, it's achy and closed like a fist and i cannot tolerate that feeling any longer in my life. I open it. It's not just about being genuine about love. it's also being genuine about conflict. if i am not genuine about conflict i will deactivate and get defensive. this i know. i will close up. and i will treat him in ways that do not reflect my care and respect. So, knowing that, i am careful and courageous enough to express to him, when i feel the tightness closing inside. then i can do in a way that respects him and i both. Also, just the fact that i am doing it, makes me feel and express love. hiding is hateful to us both. but yes it gets easier. i am celebrating with you. |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 12, 2018 7:58:16 GMT
It requires a constant and careful awareness.
I am not going to delve into my SO s (that is the ex but that seems kind of derogatory) behaviour or process on here - I think that takes me down a rabbit hole that distracts from my own journey which is and remains the focus of healing. What I will say is that he described the process of our break up like a classic avoidant - to start with he was really angry with me - and ignored me in a kind of hurt child "well she said she didn't want me so I am going to hurt her by not speaking" way, this gave way eventually to distraction - with holidays, travelling, work, going out - this didn't feel right and in the last few months of continued mindfulness practice he said he became aware of the process and the underlying emotion which was LOVE. I suppose many avoidant relationships don't reignite because without awareness the easiest thing is to run to the next relationship and never experience the discomfort of loss.
He also shared the observation that he'd spent his life going from one relationship to the next thinking the next one would be the one who would be perfect - and that he realised none would be better than ours and that in running he'd been avoiding suffering which is inevitable.
So I think that may be all I need to say about the "our" part of the journey for the moment - as I am now aware enough to realise that all the analysing and brain chatter about a partner is a distraction from the real work. I will continue to diary what I am up to on the challenging myself thread as it helps me stay accountable!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 8:09:18 GMT
love it!
i haven't called my previous partner my ex for the same reason, it sounds derogatory to this situation.
Also, i haven't gone into his process here or much in my own head because it's not my business really. my process keeps me busy.
i'm so glad mindfulness is in the picture for him also--- life changing!
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Post by ocarina on Aug 12, 2018 9:24:23 GMT
The thing that might help some of the partners here who feel they have been deserted by avoidants, is that what showed on the outside was very very different from what was going on inside.
He is some way along the path to awareness and could explain very clearly the process - that to avoid the hurt he made up stories of me being the baddy - although he said he did realise I wasn't in any way, but creating this story made him feel better, made his anger, which masked the pain justified. He said he was like a whiny child. This then released to running away mode where the story was "I couldn't care less" and his behaviours involved escaping from any feelings by doing. The doing could only last so long and then, because he hadn't run to someone else, the discomfort and pain really started.
A lot of the partners who very quickly move onto new relationship do so not because there was no attachment in the previous one but because they are unable or unwilling to experience the pain of loss and out comes the deactivation story - of it never meant anything to me anyway. This leaves the left behind lover doubting their experience and sanity!
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Post by goldilocks on Aug 12, 2018 11:02:13 GMT
Indeed - it's strange and I know to many people I will seem properly strange, but the unknown is not a worry - I don't need a plan or a commitment or anything else - the important and lovely moment is to feel seen and loved and be able to offer that in return. Gosh quite a journey this is. This rings so true for me!!! At least when getting to know someone, being in the moment, without worry about the past or the future, helps me fully receive all the joy that moment has to offer without getting clouded by fears and judgements. I'm not opposed to commitment, if and when I fully know the character of what I am committing to. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 14:00:25 GMT
Indeed - it's strange and I know to many people I will seem properly strange, but the unknown is not a worry - I don't need a plan or a commitment or anything else - the important and lovely moment is to feel seen and loved and be able to offer that in return. Gosh quite a journey this is. This rings so true for me!!! At least when getting to know someone, being in the moment, without worry about the past or the future, helps me fully receive all the joy that moment has to offer without getting clouded by fears and judgements. I'm not opposed to commitment, if and when I fully know the character of what I am committing to. yes. another perspective is, i am happiest in the present moment because that is where i have found rest from fear. for example, if i deactivate while embracing my partner, that's about seeing our continuation as a commitment to loss and inevitable pain. Seriously, that's what commitment can look like to an avoidant. The way to be happy and committed to HIM and not fear was to come back to him, in the moment, and literally pay attention to my breath and his as well, two humans snuggling and breathing, that is good and what i want and it is enough because it's REAL. It's actual, tangible, and safe. My fear is based on a future that hasn't happened. Sure, one day i will lose those i love. But i have no choice but to live every day till then with or without them. So i choose with, and it's the best i can do sometimes in terms of "commitment" . I have come out of a life of solitude and hiding to say yes to the moment, with those i love. I'm a work in progress. Under construction, and please excuse the mess. committing to be present , in the moment, to a person, is significant. it's a good commitment, in my opinion. |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 12, 2018 16:20:57 GMT
This is all very interesting and is allowing me to see commitment per se in a new light.
I have never had a problem with committing to monogamy or long term but I have, with hindsight had a huge commitment issue when it comes to actually being vulnerable and intimate with a partner. In fact I would go as far as to say I very rarely have and when I have, it's scared the jeepers out of me and I have deactivated rapidly and often completely - retracting back into unavailable mode.
I can see - and I feel at the moment, that my happiness is in the now - not in a pleasure now, but in a peaceful and present now - in a sense of being there whatever that might mean. I guess a relationship in which this is the basis, is really what I would like - for both sides to be in this place, consciously and lovingly. This doesn't seem to happen often - we are so busy, tied up with obligations and distraction and our own "stuff" that our lives are often not conducive to this. I would like this in my life - and will do my part as best I can to live it too.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 16:41:19 GMT
i have always wanted long term monogamy but how can i promise MYSELF that when i deactivate just by loving? how can i know how to do this without just focusing on staying available every day? how can the tremendous tenderness i feel that makes me ache to think of the loss of my partner, be anything but a wish i could have him forever until we die?
how?
all i can do is try my best to stay with you today , right now.
that's the truth of my limitation.
I am faithful and wanting to stand by my partner to death but i know how hard it is to not fall off the cliff when i most want to be safe so i do what i can do and a day at a time is my way of loving. my partner got that and it was no threat because he gets it.
we all do what are able to do, nothing more, nothing less.
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Post by goldilocks on Aug 12, 2018 18:49:27 GMT
I recognize so much of my own issues in what you are saying.
The fears are about loss or pain in the future, and if I am fully honest with myself, partly about how I have judges my mother and others for making poor choices in partners. My deepest ego fear is to marry a man and have him turn out like my father and seeing that I am no better. Oh eww, that was an ugly bit of me coming out. Between this and the shadow thread, I think I need to forgive my mother for choosing my father and other bad guys.
Other fears include; I marry a man and he rapidly grows old and sick and I lose him and am in pain for years. Cheating. Financial issues with lies. Violent fights and abuse. Using my secrets to humiliate me.
This ties back into my animus and my belief that a man who desires me wants to hurt me.
I'd be happy to be monogamous. I'm not sleeping with anyone so as long as a guy is not opposed to self pleasure, it would be easy. In fact, monogamy helps me with other forms of intimacy as the other person can not be destabilized by a 3rd party.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 19:16:50 GMT
fear of intimacy because of a fear of loss and pain.
it's that simple.
so painful.
i am confident and autonomous in 99 facets of 100,
i don't fear my life or hardly any hardship in it except for one.
i fear losing those that i love. that's understandable.
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