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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 19:21:24 GMT
i'm just so happy we found this forum. i have nobody else to sort through it like this with and it's so important. therapy is expensive and is with a therapist- not another avoidant that can feel what i feel and underand it the way you do ocarina and goldilocks. it changes my life daily to be able to NOT BE ALONE. |
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Post by goldilocks on Aug 12, 2018 19:38:04 GMT
i'm just so happy we found this forum. i have nobody else to sort through it like this with and it's so important. therapy is expensive and is with a therapist- not another avoidant that can feel what i feel and underand it the way you do ocarina and goldilocks . it changes my life daily to be able to NOT BE ALONE. I'm grateful for both of you! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 19:38:29 GMT
but again, it's important to clarity to explain that i feel so content and peaceful , genuinely, in my independent life. it's that part of me that i want to share, the part of my life that i want to enjoy with a partner, that is challenging to me and requires my effort to move beyond my limitations, for myself and my partner. for me, the best life is my own, as it is- with an avoidantly inclined but emotionally available partner- like me. seriously, with the same values. because i love my solitude also and don't live for a relationship. that doesn't exclude me for wanting one. right now my continuing relationship with my former partner gives me much joy and takes care of that piece for me. it's a special bond that changes me for the better. i feel content and happy. and since it's my life i feel completely ok with what i have chosen at this moment  |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 12, 2018 21:18:09 GMT
I've just come back from more time spent with the man..... We both agreed that just being ourselves together is a very great joy. I left feeling some kind of uncomfortableness and on closer investigation, the feeling I was recoiling from was a profound tenderness, the kind that I really don't allow myself to have very often. So I sat with it and allowed it to be and it was, in the end, really beautiful.
I feel honoured to be in this place - and to be learning the skills to navigate the rough waters with equanimity.
It's strange, but in our past relationship and in all others, I felt obliged to be something, to be perfect, to hide what might not be pretty behind accomplishment and good looks - but now I feel that being present is all that matters. I wouldn't have learnt that if I hadn't been through the pain of loss and if I hadn't learnt it, I am not sure that I would ever have really been able to BE in a relationship. Progress indeed.
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Post by ocarina on Aug 12, 2018 21:23:31 GMT
You have both hit the nail on the head - it does feel as though he wants to parastitise my healing. I always felt a pressure to make him feel good in our relationship - it was a pressure that was totally unrealistic, as though I must always be on form and he never wanted to support the less than moments. It's reflective of my mother's behaviour - who loves to hear of success and feel pride in our association but totaally distances herself from lifes inevitable struggle. There is nothing to inspire me at the moment - as far as I know this is a pure expression of his own unhappiness, I don't think he has done any work on himself - he drinks to an extent that I feel uncomfortable with, apparently as a way of not feeling and as far as I am aware this has continued certainly until recently. Healing does not happen over night, without effort or at the hands of another person. There is something flattering about feeling i was the source of his previous growth - he and others would often say that he had changed so much for the better when we were together, but underneath that statement there's a pressure to be some kind of guru, or that perfect loving partner that didn't allow my humanity space to grow. Becoming whole in order to share your wholeness with another and allow the same in them, seems to be the key to balanced relationships. I do really wish him very well and I am sure that recognising he's denying feelings in all parts of life is I am sure the beginning of his own journey but I don't feel inspired to reconnect with anything other than friendship. I will continue to monitor everything that this brings up and to connect with my close friends and family, to practice the vulnerability that I am gradually learning. I certainly don't feel the scarcity mindset driving me in any way - infact I never feel this, maybe this is the avoidant in me, but better no relationship than a bad one. Thank you my dear friends - being vulnerable on here and being supported has been a big part of the journey for me so far. It's interesting that I wrote this post 4 days ago - before we met and in it I had already decided I knew what was going on with him - because this was my assumption. It was perhaps also some kind of deactivation to avoid having to even really hear him. I have been guilty of creating my own story and then using it to make myself feel better. Having been able to connect with an open heart and mind, I can see that I had armour in place before we even spoke - and the strange thing is that having been vulnerable, I am also stronger if that makes sense. Being open without expectation (and he led this) has opened up a whole new realm of connection. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2018 21:43:51 GMT
I am posting here as I am no longer quite sure where I fit in the attachment scheme - FA when majorly triggered but somewhere amongst the Ds when I am single or in a secure relationship. I found these boards some while ago after a lengthy relationship with someone even more avoidant than me - which brought in it's painful wake, a great deal of self realisation and healing and was actually a real blessing. I ended the relationship because I had grown to believe that relationships could bring real intimacy and freedom at the same time - whilst he believed his long term fear of commitment was founded and I found myself walking on eggshells to appease and feeling increasingly unhappy - never a good look. Any way fast forward 18 months and after really really experiencing and being brave with the pain - for the first time ever, I now feel good - am forging new connections, living authentically, living with passion - happily single. We see each other in passing as we have the same hobbies and live close by and whilst this wasn't easy for me for a while, now it's really ok and I feel a real sense of peace. Both being avoidant there wasn't much contact post breakup - I didn't ask to break up but told him that the relationship wasn't working for me and that I needed his help - he disappeared and basically I left it there and limped forward - well limped then jogged and now skipping! He has been in touch today - and been maybe for the first time ever, completely open with me - said he'd been living in denial, that he really missed me. I don't want to go through the dance we endured for so long again. I don't want to sign up for more pain and hurt - even though I don't blame him for the pain since I chose to stay. There's nothing in his communication that warrants a reply and I think the fact that I don't feel the need to give one is a sign of my healing. I can't really imagine ever being with anyone else - but am also quite happy not being with him either. The thing I see in his communication is that it's really all about him - he's missing me, he feels lonely, he was in denial. Not sure if I am doing too much interpretation here, but I find myself thinking that yes he probably does - I am an OK person - and I did my best - but it didn't work for me and all his missing and feeling lonely isn't going to make a difference to the dynamic in the long term. It's the stuff fairy tales are made of but sadly call me a cynical unromantic, I don't seem to believe them any more. you sound wise, and strong. if there is nothing in his expression that inspires you, it's good that you recognize that! great insight! If it becomes worth a second look, you'll know. until then, nothing changes, onward. I believe the most important thing is to remain very aware and accepting of ANYTHING it brings up for you, take care of all of that in yourself gently and with courage. Maybe it will bring disappointment, trigger past pain, trigger hope that is unsupported by what you witness in reality. Whatever it brings up, be present to that. The process is not over, he is here to show you more about yourself, only you can discover what that is. It may be frustrating, or very encouraging, what you encounter in yourself when a past lover comes back around. The journey is the destination. hugs! "The process is not over, he is here to show you more about yourself, only you can discover what that is" combined with the truth in anne12 's w"orking with the shadow" thread, you can see, this situation has already enhanced and supported your quest toward authenticity as you discover the ways in which you hide. This whole thing is as it should be, and it's incredible what can be gained when you release expectation, positive and negative, and open to see yourself and the other as you truly are. 🌸 |
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Post by alexandra on Aug 12, 2018 22:14:14 GMT
I'm glad to hear he is showing up to you genuine and authentic. If you and your gut feel that, for him, this is just as much about caring for you as it is getting through the other end of the tunnel of his own healing (ie not selfish/parasitic), then I'm happy for you! As long as his actions continue to follow through. In addition to reflecting on your own deactivating moments, noticing when they are happening and staying present, remember that he will likely face those moments as well... security is new for him too! It's still a journey for you both, but I hope you're in a similarly enough healed space now that you find a new relationship (whatever it is you end up having with him, not even necessarily romantic) that is mutual satisfying and connecting for you both.
So nice to read about insecure attachments healing and progress made!
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Post by ocarina on Aug 13, 2018 17:19:57 GMT
The moment to moment presence is the thing that has brought such joy - and the recognising when my head goes off on some kind of mad train of thought and gently accepting the feelings and getting back to the now.
All our worries about getting someone to commit kind of seem to pale into ridiculous as soon as we start having expectations and chasing - when the moment to moment is loving, real and beautiful, the pressure to commit or conform kills the joy. Strange that I have only just noticed this. I see so many committed couples miserable and resentful.
It's taken a very long time for my head to get in this kind of space - and looking back on previous attempts at relationships I can see so blatantly that I was trying to get something from the other person - even whilst being DA or FA - I was looking to them to make me feel good- and that I was giving something of myself in order to get something from them. Exhausting and futile.
At the moment, he is giving freely - but Alexandra you are right, for both of us, these patterns are long held and there are bound to be times of real challenge.
The current friends who love each other might be a bit unconventional, but for me that's good for now - maybe good for ever.
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Post by ocarina on Aug 13, 2018 17:22:34 GMT
And it is nice to be able to report somehow on insecure attachment and healing in a hands on situation.
I honestly never thought I would get to this point - and he says the same - we are both late 40s. Maybe a thread on the process would be helpful - although I think the key here is not just the knowledge of how these things work, but the willingness on both sides to put the theory into painful practice.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2018 17:40:22 GMT
The moment to moment presence is the thing that has brought such joy - and the recognising when my head goes off on some kind of mad train of thought and gently accepting the feelings and getting back to the now. All our worries about getting someone to commit kind of seem to pale into ridiculous as soon as we start having expectations and chasing - when the moment to moment is loving, real and beautiful, the pressure to commit or conform kills the joy. Strange that I have only just noticed this. I see so many committed couples miserable and resentful. It's taken a very long time for my head to get in this kind of space - and looking back on previous attempts at relationships I can see so blatantly that I was trying to get something from the other person - even whilst being DA or FA - I was looking to them to make me feel good- and that I was giving something of myself in order to get something from them. Exhausting and futile. At the moment, he is giving freely - but Alexandra you are right, for both of us, these patterns are long held and there are bound to be times of real challenge. The current friends who love each other might be a bit unconventional, but for me that's good for now - maybe good for ever. [ this is a page out of my diary and reflects my experience EXACTLY. i mean, to the letter. the last sentence reflects my current joy. i didn't see it coming, that he and i would be in this kind of place together- but it's what this avoidant needed to understand love without limit. |
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 13, 2018 19:40:13 GMT
The moment to moment presence is the thing that has brought such joy - and the recognising when my head goes off on some kind of mad train of thought and gently accepting the feelings and getting back to the now. All our worries about getting someone to commit kind of seem to pale into ridiculous as soon as we start having expectations and chasing - when the moment to moment is loving, real and beautiful, the pressure to commit or conform kills the joy. Strange that I have only just noticed this. I see so many committed couples miserable and resentful. It's taken a very long time for my head to get in this kind of space - and looking back on previous attempts at relationships I can see so blatantly that I was trying to get something from the other person - even whilst being DA or FA - I was looking to them to make me feel good- and that I was giving something of myself in order to get something from them. Exhausting and futile. At the moment, he is giving freely - but Alexandra you are right, for both of us, these patterns are long held and there are bound to be times of real challenge. The current friends who love each other might be a bit unconventional, but for me that's good for now - maybe good for ever. It sounds like you are describing the difference between transactional love...I give to you so you will give to me.....versus transformational love...I give to you because I chose to give to you and you give to me because you choose to give to me....and in that space and freedom, there is room to grow, both independently and together....and without the possessiveness and jealousy of a transactional relationship..you can support each other's dreams and aspirations.🙂 |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 13, 2018 20:05:23 GMT
The moment to moment presence is the thing that has brought such joy - and the recognising when my head goes off on some kind of mad train of thought and gently accepting the feelings and getting back to the now. All our worries about getting someone to commit kind of seem to pale into ridiculous as soon as we start having expectations and chasing - when the moment to moment is loving, real and beautiful, the pressure to commit or conform kills the joy. Strange that I have only just noticed this. I see so many committed couples miserable and resentful. It's taken a very long time for my head to get in this kind of space - and looking back on previous attempts at relationships I can see so blatantly that I was trying to get something from the other person - even whilst being DA or FA - I was looking to them to make me feel good- and that I was giving something of myself in order to get something from them. Exhausting and futile. At the moment, he is giving freely - but Alexandra you are right, for both of us, these patterns are long held and there are bound to be times of real challenge. The current friends who love each other might be a bit unconventional, but for me that's good for now - maybe good for ever. It sounds like you are describing the difference between transactional love...I give to you so you will give to me.....versus transformational love...I give to you because I chose to give to you and you give to me because you choose to give to me....and in that space and freedom, there is room to grow, both independently and together....and without the possessiveness and jealousy of a transactional relationship..you can support each other's dreams and aspirations.🙂 That is exactly it and very eloquently described tnr9. Commitment remains important but rather than being this goal to aim for, it's an ongoing process to commit to the relationship and each others well being. The cool thing is that I can now recognise how this dedication of presence and compassion actually releases the potential to lead into true, happy and lasting connection. Whilst the full on romantic love with its expectation and vows, unless it's partnered with this loving presence, actually sets one up to fail spectacularly when the partner by default, doesn't meet the set criteria. The Disneyesque story we're all sold on is a dangerous one and gets in the way of actually developing real open and spacious love IMO. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2018 20:19:15 GMT
It sounds like you are describing the difference between transactional love...I give to you so you will give to me.....versus transformational love...I give to you because I chose to give to you and you give to me because you choose to give to me....and in that space and freedom, there is room to grow, both independently and together....and without the possessiveness and jealousy of a transactional relationship..you can support each other's dreams and aspirations.🙂 That is exactly it and very eloquently described tnr9. Commitment remains important but rather than being this goal to aim for, it's an ongoing process to commit to the relationship and each others well being. The cool thing is that I can now recognise how this dedication of presence and compassion actually releases the potential to lead into true, happy and lasting connection. Whilst the full on romantic love with its expectation and vows, unless it's partnered with this loving presence, actually sets one up to fail spectacularly when the partner by default, doesn't meet the set criteria. The Disneyesque story we're all sold on is a dangerous one and gets in the way of actually developing real open and spacious love IMO. very well said! |
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Post by ocarina on Aug 14, 2018 22:09:07 GMT
The funny thing now (and I literally mean funny - it's making me smile) is that I am getting contact from him every day - the kind of sweet loving messages you'd expect in - well, in a normal relationship! This is a first - he never ever ever did this in our past relationship, even in the early days he was super detached and we had many days between contacts.
I am noticing in myself that I don't know what to do with this! It doesn't frighten me as such - but I just don't know how to react - except by trying again and again to be open to whatever comes and allow the feelings to sit without labels or expectations - and reciprocating with as much loving open heartedness as I am able.
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Post by goldilocks on Aug 14, 2018 22:22:02 GMT
I am noticing in myself that I don't know what to do with this! It doesn't frighten me as such - but I just don't know how to react - except by trying again and again to be open to whatever comes and allow the feelings to sit without labels or expectations - and reciprocating with as much loving open heartedness as I am able. This is what I try to do with the guy I like now :-) Just be in the moment, feel as I feel. Allow contact to flow as it will. |
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