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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 19:09:44 GMT
I have been taking care of my sick grandbaby the last couple of days, so have kind of been pinned to my rocking recliner with this sweet little sad baby on my chest. That's why i have been posting a lot- i have had time to read and reflect and share and i have enjoyed that. A thread posted by stayhappy on pulling away, invited avoidants to share what it is like to deactivate, to pull away. brokenbiscuit shared his painful experience, and both he and i sharing this made me feel a deep sadness for what this has taken from me and how much it hurts. and what work it is to stay connected like i want to. sometimes but not all the time, i get sad about the reality of what this has stolen from me. Don't get me wrong, i know that coming through the other side is tremendous and i am thankful. But there is grief as i go, and i'm not trying to minimize or deny that. the last couple days i have a lump in my throat for all of us who suffer, anxious or avoidant, no discrimination. I know that avoidantly attached individuals are really the nemesis of anxiously attached individuals. I have consistently acknowledged the toxicity of that dynamic , and understand it as painful and triggering thing for both parties. This post really isn't about that dynamic. there are lots of posts about that. I have shared that i experience several deactivating thoughts a day, and it's like having a catchy knee. It's so involuntary. If something pricks my heart, most of the time i can remain soft and open to being there, being real, being present, being engaged. But RANDOMLY, i may feel a sense of connection to something or someone and it's like this blade drops like a guillotine to try to cut me off. it's so hard to explain. It's not like i think it through like "oh, i care a lot about this. Well, caring means vulnerability. And loss of autonomy. and danger. and grief. and loss of what i care about. and instability. so. let me just convince myself not to care. Here i go. here is a list of reasons i will distance myself from what i care about." NO. It's like, something grabs my heart and then this blade drops to try to sever the tie. it's so unconscious . and being aware of it, can be really frustrating. because i aspire to connect deeply, to love, to be loved, to be at peace with intimacy without fear, to let go of fear, to trust, to be vulnerable. And i devote myself to that. And have this reflex i have to fight, out of the blue it seems. It's like a bee stinging me in my eyelid when i am looking at someone i love. how rude. 😡😫 I do overcome it, i shake it off, but it makes me sad, because it's been the underpinning of my (sometimes) grave isolation. So, i will continue to endure it and work through it. i thought about making a list of the way deactivation manifests in little blurbs for me... the specific thoughts that insert themselves in my brain like a dart. But, then i got overwhelmed with sadness because i just have fought long and hard and today i don't want to experience those f*cking thoughts. I'd post this in the dismissive suppprt forum but i'm not trying to keep other styles from commenting. Anyone can say anything they have to say to me , i don't mind. Anyway, i was looking on google for a list of deactivating thoughts to help me sort through this a little more, and then i changed my mind because i don't want to do that today, i know what the stupid thoughts are and it's stuff like "don't get too attached, we all have to say goodbye eventually, i mean, everybody is going to die, it's just life. better just love from a safe distance.". really sad stuff to me. i don't get depressed by the thoughts like this, they just come in to buffer intimacy and i kick them off and come back to "yeah, but we are living NOW and i am all in, motherf*cker." and i'm back to being present. then things are great, i'm ok. that's where i live mostly. it's just this awareness of what's happened, that's painful. anyway- i happened upon an article that i thought was good and i enjoyed it so here it is. Instead of a list of deactivation crap i just read a kind article instead . www.anxiety.org/relationship-styles-avoidant-attachment-independent |
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Post by epicgum on Aug 10, 2018 19:23:29 GMT
I think the feeling is like your heart is in a spiked cage...as your heart swells, the spikes dig in.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 19:32:16 GMT
I think the feeling is like your heart is in a spiked cage...as your heart swells, the spikes dig in. Yes. yes! ugh when i hear other avoidants voice it i feel so sorry that we know what this is like and can share it- but i also feel very thankful for the fellowship. that's a very accurate description. i just need to cry a lot this weekend i think. I have so much love around me i just wish there was a magic pill to make that stupid reflex stop. i can handle it but i do get tired. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 19:54:30 GMT
once , before more awareness between us. when describing why he was unable to let himself relax into our relationship like he wanted to , my dismissive partner said
"there are about a hundred things about you i don't want to have to give up or live without, so i feel like i need to stop it from getting any deeper."
i totally got it. I then shared how i prefer to do all my grocery shopping by myself because i don't want to encounter a day when i have to miss someone's presence during a routine task, he said "i think you get me. we're broken in the same places."
it's awesome that now we look at permanence in our relationship as a given, whatever form it takes... but even if we were together romantically we would have to keep having those moments of vulnerability with each other. it brought us closer, ironically. part of overcoming it is just acknowledging that it's there. and acting against it.
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Post by stayhappy on Aug 10, 2018 20:24:58 GMT
I guess I will never pain and fair in the same way that DAs feel, but I want you to know that I am empathetic with your situation. I am grateful you could give me a light about how it actually feels when A DA is deactivating. Well I have been reading a lot about it but it’s get more real when I read it from a Da perspective.
I wish that all the insecure attached people could experience love and intimacy in the same way I do. Not being afraid that someone will leave me, not being afraid that maybe things don’t work out. Being comfortable with both giving and receiving love and knowing if even if things do not work out in the way I expected things will get better again in a while. But unfortunately this world can be much more harder for ones than anothers and I was lucky to have a family who was always there for me, who supported and encouraged me always when I needed. I had the privilege of getting the skills to handle pain and fear in a healthier way completely free but although it is sad and hard I think all of you who are working hard to get to be secure are really brave and strong!
Warm hugs for all of you!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 20:35:52 GMT
I guess I will never pain and fair in the same way that DAs feel, but I want you to know that I am empathetic with your situation. I am grateful you could give me a light about how it actually feels when A DA is deactivating. Well I have been reading a lot about it but it’s get more real when I read it from a Da perspective. I wish that all the insecure attached people could experience love and intimacy in the same way I do. Not being afraid that someone will leave me, not being afraid that maybe things don’t work out. Being comfortable with both giving and receiving love and knowing if even if things do not work out in the way I expected things will get better again in a while. But unfortunately this world can be much more harder for ones than anothers and I was lucky to have a family who was always there for me, who supported and encouraged me always when I needed. I had the privilege of getting the skills to handle pain and fear in a healthier way completely free but although it is sad and hard I think all of you who are working hard to get to be secure are really brave and strong! Warm hugs for all of you! thank you so much for your compassion about this. when i read about dismissive attachment i can't even recognize most of what i am reading when it comes to what it feels like or why dismissives deactivate. no wonder. it's pretty hard to describe. it's not even an anxiety. it's a physical sensation but one unlike any other i can name. sometimes what i read is far from my experience i wonder, am i dismissive? just for a minute i'm like.... wait what is this?! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 20:52:14 GMT
although, it's complex,
there is the difference between deactivating when i didn't care, didn't feel bonded, and the relationship didn't feel good-
and deactivating when i do feel love, and a bond, and the relationship feels good.
vast differences.
and the pain is in the latter, for me.
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Post by stayhappy on Aug 10, 2018 21:00:00 GMT
although, it's complex, there is the difference between deactivating when i didn't care, didn't feel bonded, and the relationship didn't feel good- and deactivating when i do feel love, and a bond, and the relationship feels good. vast differences. and the pain is in the latter, for me. Before I found it hard to understand about deactivation when things are good. I could understand much more now. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 21:46:22 GMT
although, it's complex, there is the difference between deactivating when i didn't care, didn't feel bonded, and the relationship didn't feel good- and deactivating when i do feel love, and a bond, and the relationship feels good. vast differences. and the pain is in the latter, for me. Before I found it hard to understand about deactivation when things are good. I could understand much more now. 's description is very very good. ahh, but to love, is worth it to me. im glad about this whole process. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 22:28:27 GMT
i know why i am so sad. and i have been deactivating around it.
but it doesn't work and i don't want it to.
i have a close relationship with a woman who is about the age of a mom to me.
we see each other every day at our gym.
It's intentional, that we go at the same time, so we can visit and talk about life as we exercise, we have a good relationship and i do love her.
she is able to talk to me about things that my mother never would, and she is very encouraging and truly has my best interest at heart.
She doesn't have a daughter, and we smile about being able to fill that space for each other.
A few months ago, i told her, after we went to lunch, i would like to take care of her when her time comes, as she gets older i wanted to make a commitment to help her in any way she needs.
She has a son here, but he is an only child, and i offered this to both of them, out of respect and appreciation for our relationship and what she has added to my life.
Well, we all agreed that would be great and assumed that her time wouldn't come for at least a decade- she is just so healthy and strong and unstoppable.
Well, it turns out, pancreatic cancer will stop her in six months or less, we just found out in the last couple weeks.
So, yes, i'm grieving. and i'm taking care of her to he extend she needs at this time. it will become more as time passes.
She has a lot of emotions to sort through, and pain- and i swear she is as dismissive as they come. ha. But we do talk, on her intiative. I let her lead, i follow her flow.
She is the strongest woman, and more independent than i have ever seen. It's so hard for her to let me help her, but i am glad that she is allowing me, a little at a time.
She is a collection of many forces that i admire- determination, resilience, optimism, and courage in the face of adversity.
She is also becoming more vulnerable with me, that has come in stages as we have gotten to know each other over time.
So, i am facing the pain of my heart swelling and the piercing. And it's so real, and i am very willing to allow it and let it go, because it does pass and it's not real to me any more so much as it is a protective reflex.
I am headed out for a walk in the woods and over to her house this evening to sit with her.
Sometimes, i use sitting with someone i love, as a meditation , to concentrate on what it feels like to be in their presence, what is happening between us right here and now. that makes even the most difficult situations enjoyable, and meaningful.
so anyway, it does take courage to love there is no doubt about that, and i am really thankful for all that my life has taught me even though it's been pretty rough at times.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 11, 2018 5:41:15 GMT
So sad to hear this. I'm sure your presence means a lot to her!
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Post by ocarina on Aug 11, 2018 11:19:19 GMT
The pain for me has been an intense kind of loneliness and frustration and my own inability to find connection.
It's a feeling of being a separate other which is made worse by forcing connection on myself - so one of my loneliest places has been in long term relationships where I have felt as though I am wearing body armour - not through fault of myself or partner and not something that's controllable by my partner either.
This has improved in leaps and bounds over recent years, taking little steps to communicate openly, firstly online, secondly with close family and friends and latterly with my ex partner although in intimate relationships it's a whole new ballgame!
As a result I have also become more accepting of my solitary nature and not forced unnatural socialising upon myself which has helped.
What I experience when deactivated is a kind of lack of presence - a kind of zone out which is really unpleasant and seems pretty much unconscious although nowadays I can notice and adjust. Inviting feelings in, little and often has been really helpful.
One of my worst habits is zoning out during conflict - or avoiding it all together resulting in a gradual build of misery and my eventual disappearance. I can totally switch off at this disappearing stage appearing completely uncaring. Its not a healthy or pleasant dynamic and one I am working on.
The pain is in the isolation - sometimes despite being quite eloquent most of the time, I almost can't speak on intimate matters - literally I have no voice, because it reveals me so rawly. It's helped to sing - in a small choir where emotions are expressed safely - and also just to be brave and with age, to no that this too will pass and that even the worst heartbreak will heal. Therefore I have a choice - to remain in a life of solitude or to take the risk of connection little by little - and I have chosen the latter and am much happier for it.
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Post by ocarina on Aug 11, 2018 11:25:27 GMT
Juniper - I am sorry to hear of your situation - I think that you have a real talent for being presence without becomming enmeshed which is an immense gift to others during difficult times and to offer this gift to your friend is really a wonderful blessing for you both.
I spent years as a volunteer listening to victims of extreme trauma and by avoidance really was helpful as I was able to be empathic and present in the face of real suffering whilst not being tipped into trauma myself. You sit on both sides of this fence in terms of experience of attachment styles and I am sure this will be a great help in the process.
I read recently a story of a wife who sat with her dying husbands suffering - doing everything to make him feel better, distract herself and him, minimise the experience and was greatly stressed - until she gathered herself and realised that what her husband and her needed was infact her true presence and ability to be there without running from the pain - both his and hers. You have practised long and hard to reach a place mentally where you can stay - whatever is thrown at you and I very much hope you will find this possible during your friends journey.
All support from here if you need it of course.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 13:12:23 GMT
The pain for me has been an intense kind of loneliness and frustration and my own inability to find connection. It's a feeling of being a separate other which is made worse by forcing connection on myself - so one of my loneliest places has been in long term relationships where I have felt as though I am wearing body armour - not through fault of myself or partner and not something that's controllable by my partner either. This has improved in leaps and bounds over recent years, taking little steps to communicate openly, firstly online, secondly with close family and friends and latterly with my ex partner although in intimate relationships it's a whole new ballgame! As a result I have also become more accepting of my solitary nature and not forced unnatural socialising upon myself which has helped. What I experience when deactivated is a kind of lack of presence - a kind of zone out which is really unpleasant and seems pretty much unconscious although nowadays I can notice and adjust. Inviting feelings in, little and often has been really helpful. One of my worst habits is zoning out during conflict - or avoiding it all together resulting in a gradual build of misery and my eventual disappearance. I can totally switch off at this disappearing stage appearing completely uncaring. Its not a healthy or pleasant dynamic and one I am working on. The pain is in the isolation - sometimes despite being quite eloquent most of the time, I almost can't speak on intimate matters - literally I have no voice, because it reveals me so rawly. It's helped to sing - in a small choir where emotions are expressed safely - and also just to be brave and with age, to no that this too will pass and that even the worst heartbreak will heal. Therefore I have a choice - to remain in a life of solitude or to take the risk of connection little by little - and I have chosen the latter and am much happier for it. i really appreciate hearing your process of coming to awareness because it helps me to kind of validate and recognize some things for myself. I too came to an understanding and acceptance, and appreciation and warm embracing actually, of my solitary nature, through all of this. It's like awareness made me question my nature and my natural solitary ways, and instead of rejecting myself or thinking "this is no good!" i found - "I like this, i value this in me, it's my real self... but i can be solitary in my lifestyle and intimately connected also!!!" i can love that facet of me and shine up other facets - and that's what i'm doing. So i have intimate relationships and feel deeply connected without having to turn my life upside down and try to fit a square peg into a round hole. I did have a period of time in early awareness when i tried to change too much; it was kind of a "holy crap i'm not normal" moment and i thought i had to change everything. i started thinking i have to not be alone so much so i have to do all this socializing and change my priorities. but i didn't really need to do that, i found out i can keep my lifestyle without remaining on the fringe EMOTIONALLY. And, my recent hospitalization was intense but my ability to reach out and ask for and receive lots of support was eye opening for me; and i was very moved by receiving so much love and help. This was a new experience for me. I'm everything i like about being a (formerly?) dismissive avoidant, and not too much what i don't like... but as this post illustrates its work, it's not easy to heal it all up, and i have grief and pain around it sometimes. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 16:24:11 GMT
So sad to hear this. I'm sure your presence means a lot to her! thank you so much, alexandra, for your kind words! 🌸 |
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