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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2018 1:47:42 GMT
greengurl99 , i'm going to be as harsh with you as you are being with him, suggesting he is a shitty person. can you handle it? you're new to attachment theory. here's a suggestion. humble yourself. read about your anxious preoccupation and how utterly nasty your behavior might be to a partner. maybe someone doesn't think too highly of you, you never know. take yourself off the moral pedestal and have a look at your own issues instead of putting him under the microscope. maybe you're AP, maybe you're shitty, i don't know. see how that sounds? we all get hurt, we don't all write pages of biased analysis about another person who can't give us what we demand , on the internet. but if you do, there's some feedback coming. i get that you're hurt and bent out of shape, but you have no idea what his insides are like because you have your own bias and perception, as someone who wants something from him, that he can't give. he is a free person and if you don't like him, leave him alone. you have an agenda. it will influence your perception and judgement. take some time to explore how you relate in unhealthy ways, instead of analyzing him. in the long run, that's what's going to get you where you want to be. I get it... I know I have my own issues too. I'm willing to accept the feedback as harsh as it is... I'm asking for it coming on here. I was reading Jeb Kinnison's article Anxious-Preoccupied: Stuck On The Dismissive? and this stood out to me: "The Preoccupied think that because they put their relationships above all other priorities, and work hard to maintain contact and do things for their partner, that they are owed the same level of attention and devotion. This level of commitment would be admirable if it came after a long relationship of mutual support and knowledge, but the Preoccupied tend to rope someone into partnership and start acting as if it was eternal and perfectly intimate long before they have really come to know and understand their latest partner-victim. In other words, they use their new partner to fill the hole in their attachment security without a true knowledge and appreciation of the partner’s history and feelings. This is self-centered and shows that real empathy can only be fully exercised from a secure base. This entitlement attitude ('I am a devoted partner so I am owed the attention I deserve!') leads to disappointment and anger when no real person can instantly be as thoughtful and devoted as the Preoccupied would require. The Preoccupied spend much time obsessing about these unintended slights and going over every detail of interactions in their heads, making up scenarios where they lose their partner, and then being tempted to make another play for reassurance. The anxiety they feel and the demands they make without regard to their partner’s state of mind or current ability to respond ultimately can drive away partners and friends."I wasn't aware of this at all but it makes complete sense. I identify with that as an AP and I'll admit that is honestly some pretty shitty behavior on my end. Definitely not the type of partner or person I want to be. You're right... I don't know what's going on his insides bc I am bias and want something that he can't give me. I have left him alone since that last text anyways. How can I explore how we related in unhealthy ways? I don't know how to go about that. gurrrrrllllll! 😍 welcome to our club, we all have our issues to face and our demons to fight, our wounds to heal. I think that posting and requesting honest feedback on this forum is a great way to untangle the knots. There are quite a few healthy and sincere earned secure/AP and earned secure /DA around that have a lot of insight and compassion. It says so much if you are willing to look at this, not to shame yourself, but to understand how you were shaped by your early experiences and how the coping mechanisms you learned then are obstacles now. Those of us who are healing, have been able to sit with all that and sort it out, over time. So there is hope! Also, anne12 has posted a wealth of exercises and information on all of the different attachment styles, in the General forum. What a wealth of information. I re-read the DA info a lot especially when i am triggered so that i can stay mindful of how to continue to transform. (i'm earned secure DA) when i trigger into deactivation it's really painful and staying in touch with how to heal when i am struggling has made a big difference to me. Welcome to the boards. 🌸 |
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Post by happyidiot on Aug 29, 2018 7:44:43 GMT
Anyone can be emotionally unavailable, regardless of attachment type. The term "emotionally unavailable" just means the person has a wall up that makes it hard for them to get close with you, this can be for any number of reasons, for example the person lost their spouse or went through a breakup or is feeling down on themselves. I am AP and I can be very emotionally unavailable at times. An avoidant attachment style is much more specific and stems from a subconscious fear that caregivers are not reliable and intimacy is a dangerous thing. DAs/FAs tend to engage in particular behaviors, to varying degrees depending on the person and situation of course, that are characteristic of an avoidant attachment style. They tend to be emotionally unavailable, but being emotionally unavailable doesn't mean someone has an avoidant attachment style. Personally I didn't really see enough behavior or history that says DA/FA in your post. What parts made you pretty sure he has an avoidant attachment style? Thank you for that information! I appreciate it... I was so convinced he was an avoidant bc kept saying how he liked to have time alone, valued his independence, didn't want to answer to anybody and wouldn't compromise. Although he did put effort, it was more bc that effort was convenient for him at the time. He would call me when he got off work bc he was stuck in traffic but once he got home, he would text me here and there until he no longer felt like it. I often felt at his beck and call and when I wouldn't give in, he'd make comments questioning my effort and feelings towards him. It almost felt like he needed validation that I obviously liked him and was way more into him than he into me. I also remember that he told me, "I'm not responsible for your feelings" and "well, I can't help that's how you feel." He was terrible at expressing his thoughts and emotions. Everything was "fine", "whatever", or "I don't know". I would open up about stuff but he rarely did and if he did, they were short sentences separated by long pauses. He would make comments that warranted more questioning and I would ask him what he meant and he would always say never mind. For example, he said that I wasn't putting enough effort and I asked why he thought that but just told me that it would be a waste of time trying to explain. Sometimes when I would keep asking thru text, that's when kinda he would tell me the issue. When there would be a breakdown in communication, he'd spin on me that it was somehow my fault and wouldn't take responsibility. He would also point out some of my flaws like not being able to cook or clean (to his standards), wearing too much eye makeup, taking too long to get ready, not paying attention enough, asking too many questions, etc. He even told me once before he put more effort into me that he didn't think he could serious with me bc of my past so I decided to move on but he came back (one of the many times). Another thing is that during his over 10 yr relationship, he told me he would go off and be with other girls. I asked him if it was on-and-off relationship and he said, it was for him when he felt like going doing his own thing but she didn't. He also told me that he told his ex of over 10 yrs that he was never going to marry her. As I mentioned, he was dating another girl but they were never serious and he even said, "it wasn't like I was going to marry her." He didn't give her the gf title nor did she meet his family and they were on and off for over 2 years. I got the feeling that he was open to idea of commitment at some point but then when it got too close for comfort or something, he'd find flaws and excuses his partners had (including me) to fixate on as a reason not to move forward with them. Sometimes I think he has this image of the perfect partner that will meet his all standards and everything will just fall into place but until then he will not commit. I think I another big thing for me that made me think he was an avoidant was the way he was with the other ex that passed away. I really didn't want to reveal this in case someone figured out our identities but whatever. We started going out late last year so she was still in the picture. He told me that when he wasn't with her, he would reach out to me which explained his "too busy". I then found out that she actually passed away from a health condition in front of HIM. Next day after her death, he texted me saying that he just needed to get to know me better before making that commitment (for bf/gf) and asked me out on date. We went out on the date and slept together just a few days after her death. I didn't know find out until weeks later which was the breaking point. Here was a girl who had been in his life for over two years, who died in front of him and he already moved on and was in bed with someone else just a few days later. Where was his respect for her? Did she really mean that little to him to be able to move onto me that quickly? Just feels like she didn't mean that much to him or he wouldn't have done that or kept his options open. I read that avoidants are able let go of their partners quickly so I'm wondering if that's the case. Or he's really not that emotional and repressing it? I'm not trying to paint avoidants in a black picture bc there's really nice and self-aware avoidants on here. In the end, it could be that's he not even an avoidant but just a shitty person... dunno. I agree with juniper and loveyousecretly that it doesn't make him shitty that he dealt with his ex-gf's death in a different way than you assume you would. Who knows what he was feeling or thinking. However, I do think it's shitty that he was so critical of you. This might be an unpopular opinion on here, but I do think it can be useful and healing to try to figure out the attachment styles of exes or current partners or other key people in our lives. I often see people on here suggesting newbies only focus on their own attachment style and how to become more secure and to stop analyzing other people. As of yet I am not of the opinion that there is anything inherently wrong with analyzing others for their attachment styles and trying to understand them better within that framework. Many APs are already very hard on ourselves and tend to take on the blame for things going wrong in relationships. If we can surmise someone was not meeting our needs because of both of our childhoods and key differences in our coping mechanisms that are typical of people with similar traits and behavior patterns, it can make it easier to be kinder to ourselves and to the other person. Information systems, like the brain, need some kind of order in order to make sense of their contents. By grouping people into understandable categories, such as attachment styles, it can help one see things more clearly and focus on what is important. We tend to categorize things or people because it is generally a good strategy in order to survive. Figuring out the attachment styles of my exes and friends (whether by asking them, asking a psychologist or my own analyses) has been very helpful to me in understanding them, my relationships with them and myself. Sure there are some risks, but categorization does have a place and there are ways to mitigate those risks. I think it's unfair for anyone to assume your behavior may be "utterly nasty to a partner" based solely on you being AP. Even if that comment was simply meant to thought-provokingly turn the tables on you, you weren't saying your ex might be "shitty" because he is avoidant. I also think that someone having any particular attachment style does not excuse them from considering how their behavior affects others and trying to improve that. I sometimes perceive an inference on the boards that avoidant people are simply incapable of treating people differently and it's not ok for anyone to expect a thing from them that they don't want to give easily, often in the same breath as the suggestion that APs should change and grow and interact with others differently. APs already have a tendency to idealize their partners/exes and think if only we were better or perfect we would be loved and have our needs met, I'm not sure we need others reinforcing that worldview. I understand better now why you think your "kinda" ex has an avoidant attachment style. |
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Post by lilyg on Aug 29, 2018 9:11:01 GMT
I think understanding them it's good, of course! We all try to understand it. But once we do we should spot obsessing over an ex and focus on our own thing. I think it's much more possitive than dwelling on the past with something we cannot control. Still, yes! Knowledge IS power. I think APs/AFs/DAs/Secures can vary a lot, and you being one way or the other don't make you 'nasty' at all. I think actually greengurl99 seems quite like an honest and aware gal. I'm sure she's a good person trying to understand. We all act sometimes in ways we are not proud of. If you're able to take responsability of your end you can grow and search for a better partner. I'll be very honest with her, actually: he sounds like someone who will take a toll on your confidence if he's constantly judging you. He'll certainly not let you grow. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2018 12:00:38 GMT
I think understanding them it's good, of course! We all try to understand it. But once we do we should spot obsessing over an ex and focus on our own thing. I think it's much more possitive than dwelling on the past with something we cannot control. Still, yes! Knowledge IS power. I think APs/AFs/DAs/Secures can vary a lot, and you being one way or the other don't make you 'nasty' at all. I think actually greengurl99 seems quite like an honest and aware gal. I'm sure she's a good person trying to understand. We all act sometimes in ways we are not proud of. If you're able to take responsability of your end you can grow and search for a better partner. I'll be very honest with her, actually: he sounds like someone who will take a toll on your confidence if he's constantly judging you. He'll certainly not let you grow. that's the whole beautiful point! "if you're able to take responsikity of your end you can grow and search for a better partner". no style is better or worse than any other, it's good to remember. all insecure attachment styles behave in ways that are detrimental to themselves, their partner , the relationship. i don't think greengurl99 sounds nasty at all! but each person adds to a dynamic, and knowing how you hurt yourself and others is the first step to being a better partner and having a better relationship. only by focusing on your own healing can you make a way forward to find a suitable partner, and bring the best you have to the relationship. intimacy requires rewiring the patterns in the brain, it's hard work and it's a better use of time to recognize and change what we can to take care of ourselves better. Dysfunction sucks and is painful, but we repeat it until we know how not to. that starts inside. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2018 15:44:21 GMT
and, for perspective, Jeb, the author of this site, is also AP and easily confronts the difficulty and toxicity of AP patterns of thought and behavior, with very direct language and more excruciating detail than anything anyone has seen here. he easily does the same for avoidants. it's all information that can be useful.
He doesn't discriminate, he doesn't play favorites with styles.
insecure is insecure, and each style has to go inward to correct their own issues.
he calls out the tendency of AP's to overly focus on their partner, and the importance of turning that attention back to the self.
If the OP finds it helpful, then that's the point.
we don't have to agree, it's a forum and of course anyone can take what they want and leave the rest.
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Post by greengurl99 on Sept 5, 2018 9:48:23 GMT
happyidiot lilyg juniper Thanks for the posts! I really appreciate them! I had been MIA on here for a little bit bc I didn't wanna keep analyzing his behavior bc I need to move on but as an AP, it's FREAKIN' HARD! He stopped sending me stuff over Instagram about two weeks ago and makes me sad. I still think about him every day but the urge to reach out is gone. Yay for that! I keep telling myself that it's not me, it's him but it's been ingrained in my mind that when a guy says he doesn't want a relationship/gf/ it's that he's really saying he doesn't want it with YOU. As an AP, that triggers me to analyze where I went wrong unfortunately. In a previous post I said that he would point out my flaws like not being able to cook or clean (to his standards), wearing too much eye makeup, taking too long to get ready, not paying attention enough, asking too many questions, etc, but I never really took those to heart or offense to be honest. We would joke about those things and we would joke with his "flaws" too. I focused on that to help me try get over him but reflecting back now, those "flaws" weren't really issues. The one thing that upset me was his comment on my past but he seemed to be over it as he no longer used it as an excuse not to get serious with me like he did before and even he told me didn't care anymore but who knows. He might have not had the reaction I expected to his ex's death but people are right... everyone deals with death differently and I can't judge him on that. I honestly can't say he is a shitty person... he's definitely had his moments with me but I think that at the end of the day, he tried to mean well. I have to give him credit for dealing with my AP moments and for being accommodating to my needs (to certain extents). When I asked him to call and text me more, he did. I did say in a previous that it was at his convenience, but it was also at my convenience too. And he would called me back when he said he would too. I remember we had multiple phone calls that would go over 2 hours long. I remember one night we literally stayed up all night talking and when I left to go to work, he called me 10/15 mins later after leaving his house and spent another 35/40 mins talking on the phone. Also I remember that one morning that he called me when he woke up and we stayed talking on the phone until he got my house to pick me up which was like 2 hours later. . When I look back, I know I had my AP moments but I feel like they're weren't too bad to scare him away. I still don't think it was okay for me to do nor is it behavior I would wanna do in the future. Like I said I give him props for it. I can't honestly say where I went wrong except when I ignored him that one time (out of many others times) and he got upset. Even then, I don't think that was the true breaking point for him but instead an excuse to step back. If it wasn't that, it was going to be something else in the future that would made him step back regardless, in my opinion. I'm gonna be honest... I think I wanted to label him so badly as an avoidant to give me a reason not blame myself. It would've been easier to accept that than him just not wanting to commit to ME specifically. I agree tho that he's not a fully avoidant, but instead could have avoidant tendencies and is emotionally unavailable at the moment given his past relationship or whatever other reasons. On an interesting note, a few days ago I saw on Instagram that HE LIKED a post titled " 7 signs a man is emotionally broken" and it listed these signs: 1.) he will never express his feelings easily 2.) will always try to handle things on his own 3.) will never accept if anything is wrong with his life 4.) always tries to look happy by forcing a smile 5.) will never share his problems with you 6.) he will mostly stay alone 7.) might appear cold and unaffectionate bc he is cautious.... That's interesting to me bc I've told him he's not good at expressing what's going on or how he feels and in my last text to him I told him he's emotionally closed off. I dunno if it means anything except he's more aware of it now? It was just very interesting to me... At the end of the day, maybe it's him and his issues, maybe I just wasn't the girl he want to make that emotionally responsibility and commitment to or combo of both and I'm becoming more okay with that although I still struggle. Sometimes I don't feel at fault but other times I do. I just have to learn not to take it so personally which is probably why I'm having a hard time. Although I no longer feel like reaching out to him, I still hope he will and will come around which kinda frustrates me.
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Post by greengurl99 on Sept 5, 2018 10:02:01 GMT
Also, can attachment style be affected/effected (idk which one to use lol) by an absent parent?
My mom has always been there for me so I don't really understand how I'm an AP bc of her.
On the other hand, my dad CHOSE to abandon me all while raising his other daughter who is 9 months younger than me.
My mom doesn't have family but my dad's family saw and treated her as one of their own. I grew up seeing my dad around at family stuff or seeing him at my grandma's (his mom) house but there was nothing there. I knew he was my dad but to me he felt like a stranger and he still does to this day.
I think a lot of my AP issues come from me having "daddy issues" and honestly that would explain a lot and maybe to others on this thread.
I am very insecure around men and in the past I've seek validation from them not so good ways.
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Post by lilyg on Sept 5, 2018 13:32:42 GMT
He honestly sounds like an unavailable guy who has to grow up a bit emotionally. Sometimes it's a bit harder for guys as they're not that used to talk about feelings with friends and family. So I guess it's hard to identify feelings if you don't know how to present them to someone else. Well, he doesn't want a relationship, period. Even if he decided it was you and not him, then he's not one for you. It's not because you're not worth it. The right guy would see past all this and try to address what's inside of him that's keeping him from being intimate with you, but this has nothing to do with your worth as a person (that's why it's important to cultivate yourself outside of a relationship). I'm not talking about a 'soulmate' or whatever, but the right person comes along at the time you both are able to see each other and grow as a couple. It's normal that you'd love for him to realise he wants to be with you, it's normal in a breakup. Take your time to heal  About one partner being absent, yes, I think is possible. My boyfriend has a great relationship with his mother but not with his father, and I know his view about love is influenced by him. You often read that attachment issues comes from your attachment as a baby with your mother, but sometimes experts say it can be because of the father/other paternal figure and it can be caused by bad experiences in vulnerable periods like adolescence (some people have good parents but had a traumatic breakup in adolescence or when being young adults). |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 5, 2018 17:07:16 GMT
Also, can attachment style be affected/effected (idk which one to use lol) by an absent parent? Consider this... you just wrote that thinking he's just not that into YOU is triggering for you (and don't get me wrong, when I'm in the midst of AP, that sentiment upsets me, too). Then you talked about how you perceived that your dad rejected you for another family/daughter -- he's just not that into YOU? So, absolutely, you can have developed self-esteem holes because society told you here is an adult caretaker who is supposed to love you more than anyone, and that person is not only not meeting your needs, but you perceive he's capable of doing it for someone else and you need to fight for his attention, maybe you can act a certain way to get it, maybe it's you you you... It's not really you, but when you were a child, you didn't know that. So you very naturally evolved an AP style as a defense mechanism to the inconsistency and rejection. I believe in attachment theory very much, but I don't believe it's solely affected by a mother bonding with her baby. I think the reinforcement of behaviors by the people all around you who are important to you during your formidable childhood years also has a big impact. I'm sorry it hurt to deal with this latest partner, but I think you have taken on too much blame and underestimate how much the death of a partner can impact someone even if they appear to you to not be expressing it in ways you relate to. That's going to make anyone emotionally unavailable, moreso if he had issues with being unavailable to begin with. That means he doesn't have good tools to handle the loss. There's nothing you can do about that except wish him well if he's not meeting your needs, move on, and focus on learning more about yourself and your attachment style. Then you may be able to start truly healing and find more available situations in the future! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 21:51:53 GMT
my father was very sad that i was born, and he considered it a curse rather than a blessing. I learned about this from my aunt who told me the story of how he called her in despair after i was born. of course i wanted my dad's love, and i remember watchin him, wondering if he saw me, or if he knew i was sitting beside him. i used to wait for him to finish his breakfast shake and then when he would leave the house, i drank the last bit in the cup and that taste of the same chocolate he drank made me feel connected to him. so, of course his absence in my presence helped shape me in dismissive avoidance. his relationship with my mother, the violence and hatred and all that between them, shaped me too. of course, i see myself as malleable and now i let loving hands help me find a better shape. but the hands that should have loved you but didn't, or couldn't, helped shape you. i'm sorry, you deserved better.  |
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Post by greengurl99 on Sept 17, 2018 11:29:24 GMT
Thank you lilyg alexandra juniper for your responses... I really appreciate them. alexandra 's response hit home for me. It makes soooo much sense to me now. I think my ex is triggering these deep rooted emotions I never even knew I had. I think it hurts even more bc I know he’s capable of commitment bc he did it for over 10 years but can’t commit to me. Just like my dad who was capable of being a father to his other daughter but not to me. It’s really hard to admit for me but deep down I wondered why my dad didn’t like me and I guess my ex is kinda triggering the same thing or similar emotions now and it hurts a lot. I don’t really remember fighting for my dad’s attention or acting a certain way to get it (mainly bc he wasn’t around as much) but I have done that in past with my ex and other guys I’ve liked so there's that. Growing up I must of buried these feelings deep down bc I never missed or longed for my dad bc he was a stranger to me and always prided myself that his absence never really affect me but I was really just in denial. I actually had been in denial about this since I can remember, even as a little kid. I guess dating now has brought these abandonment and rejection feelings to the surface. I'm kinda worried if this will keep happening with all partners in the future or just incompatible ones? lilyg you’re so right... I don’t really believe the whole “soulmate” or the “one” but rather I think that there’s a right person(s) depending on the time… as they say timing is everything. I love your whole post. I screenshotted it and read it when I start to feel down about the breakup. I especially love what you said, " It's not because you're not worth it. The right guy would see past all this and try to address what's inside of him that's keeping him from being intimate with you, but this has nothing to do with your worth as a person". So thank you for that. It has helped me. It also kinda helps to know that the grass isn’t always greener on the other side meaning even tho I would’ve wanted them in my life (my dad and ex) it’s not necessarily better. My sister (the daughter he raised) told me that although he was technically there for her in the physical sense, he wasn’t there for her emotionally. She told me he was emotionally like a robot. My dad was also in a serious relationship with his gf for over 20 years until she recently passed away from cancer. She had two sons from a previous relationship and they were about 5 and 6 when my dad entered their lives. My sister told me that her sons looked towards him as a father figure bc their own father abandoned them but he didn’t step up to the job despite them all living together. Unfortunately, one of them is in prison now and the other one doesn’t have parents anymore. I feel bad for them bc my dad should’ve been like a father to them. I wonder if he had then maybe one of them wouldn’t be in prison. So at the end of the day, I know it’s not my fault for why my dad didn’t want to raise me. It’s him as person and his own issues. Just like my ex who couldn't commit to me or the previous girl he dated for two years so it's probably him. And he told me his 10+ relationship was bad and a lot of issues too... juniper I am so sorry that you've had to experience that. It makes senses why you developed dismissive avoidance. I am so happy for you that you've been able to become secure. Idk if you've posted on this forum or not but did become secure thru therapy? By the way, my ex texted me last week. He saw that I went away for my bday last weekend on Instagram and he texted me that Friday night saying "Happy birthday if it's today lol". I responded with "it's on Sunday but thanks". He then said, "Just saw your posts and couldn’t remember. Have fun, be safe." I didn't respond to that and haven't heard from him since which is good, I guess. Unfortunately, it's kinda triggered me. My cousin who I went away with was like, "I can't believe he texted you." And when I told my other friend, she said that he still cares bc you don't text an ex happy bday, unless you care. Again, he was probably testing the waters? Ugh, kinda sucks receiving that text bc not only was I NOT expecting that but bc I was also doing better before it and now I feel like I'm two step backwards instead of forward. It kinda got my hopes a little bit and it sucks! Our bdays are exactly a month apart and his is next month... Idk if I should text him happy bday or not. Probably not since I still care. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 12:01:09 GMT
aw, greengurl99, you didn't go two steps back. he just poked a wound, give it a little bit, you're going to heal. i wouldn't text him for his birthday. it doesn't mean the same to him, as it means to you, to reach out this way, it seems. be true to you, and your intentions to heal up. Let him be "over there" , while you stay with ourself and explore the things that are coming up for you, about your original wounding and how it influences your relationship patterns and has you unconsciously choosing an unavailable partner. going inside yourself to deliver to yourself the understanding, love, and compassion you need, is the best thing you could ever do in such a situation. when you learn how to not fail yourself, you will find a partner who will not fail you. take care of your insides wih wisdom, and strength, and the outside will take care of itself. |
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Post by lilyg on Sept 17, 2018 13:50:16 GMT
I'm really glad I could help you with seeing it on the bright side when you feel down please feel free to write here, even if it's to vent. We all have been there. It will click when it's time, and all this work and reflection you've done on yourself will help you to meet someone who's also willing to grow with you. Of course, when someone leaves a trail of bad relationships behind them, usually it means there's something going on on that person. I'm very sorry about your father... of course it was never your fault. As Juni says, your journey is about not failing yourself, so you don't accept a partner who constantly fails you. Of course we are all human and make mistakes, but always search for a constant of your 'good love'. Define your landmarks of love so you can find the relationships in your life that won't fail your inner-self He's obviously thinking of you, but it's not enough right now. I wouldn't write him until I felt confident enough to not care about his response, but do what you must. |
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