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Post by faithopelove on Oct 8, 2018 0:39:38 GMT
Hi friends- my ex is an avoidant so I thought your perspective may be helpful.
My ex and I have been casually seeing each other for 10 months and are no closer to reconciliation. He knows I desire more but he told me he’s afraid to trust and feels incapable of being in a relationship. He says that he doesn’t mean to be hard on me but he’s not “normal.” I also see signs of depression.
My reaching out and being with him physically has brought us no closer to reconciliation, as he hasn’t worked on himself. I feel at this point I’m probably enabling his distancing behavior and allowing him to behave at this low level of functioning. I thought seeing him would build trust- which seems to be the crux of his issues, but I don’t know if my thinking is flawed on how to build trust.
My question- how to proceed in this gridlock? Should I just go silent and start no contact or should I have a heart to heart talk with him first, then be prepared to walk? Other ideas? I’m the one to initiate texts so if I don’t reach out, then I probably won’t hear from him...at least for a very long time. (And no contact would sever all ties since he doesn’t do social media and he have no mutual friends.
Thanks in advance for any advice 💗
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Post by ocarina on Oct 8, 2018 18:38:21 GMT
Hi friends- my ex is an avoidant so I thought your perspective may be helpful. My ex and I have been casually seeing each other for 10 months and are no closer to reconciliation. He knows I desire more but he told me he’s afraid to trust and feels incapable of being in a relationship. He says that he doesn’t mean to be hard on me but he’s not “normal.” I also see signs of depression. My reaching out and being with him physically has brought us no closer to reconciliation, as he hasn’t worked on himself. I feel at this point I’m probably enabling his distancing behavior and allowing him to behave at this low level of functioning. I thought seeing him would build trust- which seems to be the crux of his issues, but I don’t know if my thinking is flawed on how to build trust. My question- how to proceed in this gridlock? Should I just go silent and start no contact or should I have a heart to heart talk with him first, then be prepared to walk? Other ideas? I’m the one to initiate texts so if I don’t reach out, then I probably won’t hear from him...at least for a very long time. (And no contact would sever all ties since he doesn’t do social media and he have no mutual friends. Thanks in advance for any advice 💗 Hello and welcome. I think its really crucial to listen to what he's saying - that he is afraid to trust and feels incapable of being in a relationship. It is important to be really able to listen - and to believe and honor what he says. Any hanging in there in the hope that things will change is going to be damaging if you want more than he is currently offering, particularly since you are bound to have expectations which will quickly turn to pain and resentment. It is infinitely easier to leave at this stage than it is to hang on in there hoping and destroying your mental health and self esteem in the process. As you rightly said, at the moment you're probably enabling him and giving him no reason to even start to look at his own issues. I tend to be very straightforward and would initiate a conversation, be honest with him and yourself and then look at what you need to heal. It's fine to suggest he contact you if he's interested in building a relationship and seeking support, but you really need to look at your own needs, put boundaries into place and don't carry on in the vain hope that there may be some kind of epiphany from his side. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 8, 2018 22:42:27 GMT
I feel at this point I’m probably enabling his distancing behavior and allowing him to behave at this low level of functioning. I thought seeing him would build trust- which seems to be the crux of his issues, but I don’t know if my thinking is flawed on how to build trust.
My question- how to proceed in this gridlock? Should I just go silent and start no contact or should I have a heart to heart talk with him first, then be prepared to walk? Other ideas? I’m the one to initiate texts so if I don’t reach out, then I probably won’t hear from him...at least for a very long time. (And no contact would sever all ties since he doesn’t do social media and he have no mutual friends.
Thanks in advance for any advice 💗[/quote]Hello and welcome.
I think its really crucial to listen to what he's saying - that he is afraid to trust and feels incapable of being in a relationship.
It is important to be really able to listen - and to believe and honor what he says. Any hanging in there in the hope that things will change is going to be damaging if you want more than he is currently offering, particularly since you are bound to have expectations which will quickly turn to pain and resentment.
It is infinitely easier to leave at this stage than it is to hang on in there hoping and destroying your mental health and self esteem in the process. As you rightly said, at the moment you're probably enabling him and giving him no reason to even start to look at his own issues.
I tend to be very straightforward and would initiate a conversation, be honest with him and yourself and then look at what you need to heal. It's fine to suggest he contact you if he's interested in building a relationship and seeking support, but you really need to look at your own needs, put boundaries into place and don't carry on in the vain hope that there may be some kind of epiphany from his side.[/quote][
Thank you for your advice...you’re right, it is very difficult for me, and painful at times, to meet him where he is and only be casual, cool and distant. I feel inauthentic in this role.
He has been honest with his feelings and his actions have always matched- which is why he doesn’t initiate contact- he doesn’t want to lead me on. Instead of going cold turkey no contact, do you suggest I’m direct with my feelings first? He’s such a strong avoidant that I rarely voice my feelings bc he shuts down and doesn’t want to communicate. He already knows I’d rather have more and I’ve told him time and space are difficult for me, but I never stated that I’m incapable of being casual- that it just hurts too much. Also- if I offer support, the only support he will seek is physical. How do I handle that? He has no desire to talk or for companionship. He stays home alone with his dog when he’s not out with his kids.
I never laid my cards on the table for fear he’d say, “Ok, you must do what’s best for you.” I’m sure that’s what he would say and I had to be sure I was ready to speak my truth and then walk. Enabling no more.
Thx again for your insight...
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Post by ocarina on Oct 9, 2018 18:34:49 GMT
I think you need to follow your heart - do what feels authentic to you and let go of the fear that he will shut down - it is of course quite likely that he will walk away but if so that's your answer.
A relationship walking on eggshells is worse than none at all. Honoring your own needs and feelings is vital - spend too long pretending to be ok with things will lead you to lose yourself.
Set boundaries - it sounds as though physical support without emotional closeness is not something you want - in which case that's fine.
He is right - you must do what's best for you - it might be your worse fear, but it's also the beginning of a journey away from pain and towards a life of honesty and integrity, starting in a relationship with yourself.
Good luck
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Post by lilyg on Oct 10, 2018 8:20:37 GMT
It'll never work out if you're afraid to talk about your feelings. It will never work out if you do something you are not happy with hoping to change the output. You're talking about enabling him but don't you think you're enabling yourself in continuing this? Why are you accepting a non-relationship with someone that keeps telling you he doesn't want to lead you on and you think that if you stopped talking with him he'll not contact you? I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean in any way, but God knows I had to take a really hard look on myself some years ago when I was in a bad relationship. When you're with someone that is emotionally unavailable it's because you're unavailable too. If you want a good, intimate relationship, the first thing you have to do is work in yourself and heal  I think you should do what's best for you. You seem to be kind and caring, be your own best friend, sweet lady. Some people prefer to walk away without saying anything… but if you feel you can be honest with him without attacking him, telling him that you need something else and wish him the best, you can tell him that and walk away to heal. If you two have developed trust and you see him battling with himself and hurt, you can briefly talk about attachment styles so he can investigate if he feels he needs help. The decision is yours (I prefer to talk and leave, but that's because I like to end things in a good note if I can). If he want's you back, he'll need time too to heal and decide what he wants too. I wish you the best and I hope everything works out for you |
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Post by hopeful53 on Oct 15, 2018 15:17:35 GMT
I'm sorry you are in limbo. I spent 5 years in limbo and it included a broken engagement and me going back trying to prove to my AD that he truly did love me. But the limbo came back up again when it was clear that this guy was never going to be able to respond to my basic emotional signaling. What I can tell you with 99% confidence: a man/woman that is avoidant never truly has your back. They are programmed not to as a defense mechanism. Programmed to create distance. And you attract them because you don't truly have your own back. If you did, you would self-protect.
My relationship finally ended when I screamed and yelled that I wanted nothing to do with his delusional bullshit and I refuse to invest and waste years of my life in someone who was not enough. Ironically, he always claimed his past relationships never worked out because none of the women were ever enough. Projection city.
If I may suggest, I would encourage you to look into EMDR therapy to deal with the pain and feelings of inadequacy so you can lessen the strength they hold over you. You can do it while you are still seeing him or you can go no contact and attempt to heal.
I'd also like to add that my DA is 57 and I am 38. He has been in therapy for 12+ years. I eventually began seeing his therapist and was told that this man is too damaged and that his safe place is alone. That I am better but can't see it. I bet it's the same with you. You have more and bring more value and you are wasting your heart energy on someone who is broken.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 15:24:36 GMT
I'm sorry you are in limbo. I spent 5 years in limbo and it included a broken engagement and me going back trying to prove to my AD that he truly did love me. But the limbo came back up again when it was clear that this guy was never going to be able to respond to my basic emotional signaling. What I can tell you with 99% confidence: a man/woman that is avoidant never truly has your back. They are programmed not to as a defense mechanism. Programmed to create distance. And you attract them because you don't truly have your own back. If you did, you would self-protect. My relationship finally ended when I screamed and yelled that I wanted nothing to do with his delusional bullshit and I refuse to invest and waste years of my life in someone who was not enough. Ironically, he always claimed his past relationships never worked out because none of the women were ever enough. Projection city. If I may suggest, I would encourage you to look into EMDR therapy to deal with the pain and feelings of inadequacy so you can lessen the strength they hold over you. You can do it while you are still seeing him or you can go no contact and attempt to heal. I'd also like to add that my DA is 57 and I am 38. He has been in therapy for 12+ years. I eventually began seeing his therapist and was told that this man is too damaged and that his safe place is alone. That I am better but can't see it. I bet it's the same with you. You have more and bring more value and you are wasting your heart energy on someone who is broken. WRONG |
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Post by hopeful53 on Oct 15, 2018 15:34:09 GMT
Would you care to elaborate juniper? This the conclusion my therapists (I saw two with 30+ years of experience) came to. Curious to know your view.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 15:36:57 GMT
Would you care to elaborate juniper? This the conclusion my therapists (I saw two with 30+ years of experience) came to. Curious to know your view. read around, cupcake. |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 15, 2018 15:53:49 GMT
hopeful53, juniper is DA and a bunch of the threads started by AP lately have been written in a tone that attacks avoidance instead of seeing it either as an incompatibility or looking at the AP piece of the dynamic with just as much interest in analysis and change as the person would like in their partner. So, there's too much blame inherent in the threads then asking how do I get the avoidant partner to see things my way instead of more interest in responsibility of the self to take care of one's needs in a healthy way. In your case, your partner may have been damaged but was doing his own work at his own pace. The healthier thing for you to allow you to leave was understand he won't change so your dynamic didn't work, and that's hard for an AP to accept so the narrative of blaming the partner may be necessary to allow you to make the healthy decision to leave. But if that decision is coming from a secure place, there doesn't need to be blame. So the issue becomes, for the people on this board who are early on in their progress, how can they start seeing things in a more secure way that focuses on themselves and not their partners and doesn't blame anyone. Advice to dismiss their partners as the problem may be good short-term advice to get them away from the dysfunctional relationship and dynamic, if it allows the person to get to a place of space and perspective from which they can self-reflect, see their own problems, and start to heal. But it's dangerous advice if the insecurely attached person will use blaming others to avoid that self-reflection later on. juniper, you should call out when that's happening, but it can be helpful for an AP to temporarily blame externally to get into a more self-focused mindset, as otherwise they'll self-blame and ruminate and stay stuck. It's not always martyrdom, depending on where in the awareness process the AP is.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 16:04:50 GMT
i get it alexandra but the board has become so much garbage lately with the AP victim / yet somehow superior mindset, it goes through phases. it's ok, there are other resources that aren't as mentally exhausting. i expect this from a mixed forum, sometimes it's good and sometimes just overly toxic. i'll check back at a later time when it's not so overrun. |
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liz
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Post by liz on Oct 15, 2018 16:15:53 GMT
I've been reading the threads and the exchanges between members of different attachment styles.
I agree that it's healthier not to tiptoe around each other, either DAs or APs, even if we could be triggered by our replies and views. After all, we are all neutral parties to each other on an anonymous online forum.
All of us can benefit from the feedback from those with an attachment style that is different from ours, to shine a light on our own blind spot. Most of us coming here are probably suffering from disappointments in our unsatisfactory real life relationships, so I hope the forum will be a safe place for us to freely share, debate, argue our views, etc.
One of the best advice is to do what we need to take care of our own needs instead of trying to seek that from an unavailable partner of whichever attachment style who isn't able to offer the care and attention. It is better to simply walk away and seek the partner with a compatible attachment style instead of staying in the agony of unrequited love.
Clearly, this is where the more AP members struggle as the threads are filled with so much longing and pining. It's helpful to cut through the thickness of this agony fog to understand what underlies the inability to move on. However, I hope that we can all extend our compassion for each other in our struggles, no matter our attachment styles, even as we offer our frank opinions.
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Post by hopeful53 on Oct 15, 2018 16:19:09 GMT
hopeful53 , juniper is DA and a bunch of the threads started by AP lately have been written in a tone that attacks avoidance instead of seeing it either as an incompatibility or looking at the AP piece of the dynamic with just as much interest in analysis and change as the person would like in their partner. So, there's too much blame inherent in the threads then asking how do I get the avoidant partner to see things my way instead of more interest in responsibility of the self to take care of one's needs in a healthy way. In your case, your partner may have been damaged but was doing his own work at his own pace. The healthier thing for you to allow you to leave was understand he won't change so your dynamic didn't work, and that's hard for an AP to accept so the narrative of blaming the partner may be necessary to allow you to make the healthy decision to leave. But if that decision is coming from a secure place, there doesn't need to be blame. So the issue becomes, for the people on this board who are early on in their progress, how can they start seeing things in a more secure way that focuses on themselves and not their partners and doesn't blame anyone. Advice to dismiss their partners as the problem may be good short-term advice to get them away from the dysfunctional relationship and dynamic, if it allows the person to get to a place of space and perspective from which they can self-reflect, see their own problems, and start to heal. But it's dangerous advice if the insecurely attached person will use blaming others to avoid that self-reflection later on. juniper , you should call out when that's happening, but it can be helpful for an AP to temporarily blame externally to get into a more self-focused mindset, as otherwise they'll self-blame and ruminate and stay stuck. It's not always martyrdom, depending on where in the awareness process the AP is. Alexandra, thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I am fresh out of my relationship and definitely grieving and trying to be strong. I saw that juniper left the forum. I think that is my sense of how a DA would respond - they shut down when they feel triggered and I'm sorry that I sparked that. |
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 15, 2018 16:23:12 GMT
I've been reading the threads and the exchanges between members of different attachment styles. I agree that it's healthier not to tiptoe around each other, either DAs or APs, even if we could be triggered by our replies and views. After all, we are all neutral parties to each other on an anonymous online forum. All of us can benefit from the feedback from those with an attachment style that is different from ours, to shine a light on our own blind spot. Most of us coming here are probably suffering from disappointments in our unsatisfactory real life relationships, so I hope the forum will be a safe place for us to freely share, debate, argue our views, etc. One of the best advice is to do what we need to take care of our own needs instead of trying to seek that from an unavailable partner of whichever attachment style who isn't able to offer the care and attention. It is better to simply walk away and seek the partner with a compatible attachment style instead of staying in the agony of unrequited love. Clearly, this is where the more AP members struggle as the threads are filled with so much longing and pining. It's helpful to cut through the thickness of this agony fog to understand what underlies the inability to move on. However, I hope that we can all extend our compassion for each other in our struggles, no matter our attachment styles, even as we offer our frank opinions. Hi Liz, Welcome to the forum! That is perfectly stated. As someone who has been on the forum for almost a year, I have seen the different attachment style dynamics play out on the forums with folks triggering each other. I have even seen push/pull dynamics between Avoidant and Anxious types. I think it can be difficult for some people to read situations that are so close to their own and at times the pain or anxiety or both can be overwhelming. I too have been triggered by reading AP stuff because its so close to my own, but when that happens I stay with it, because this forum has been eye opening and incredibly useful in my recovery. I know that everyone on here is hurting and dealing with some kind of attachment pain, I think it is wise advice to keep an open mind and remember that we are all a work in progress. Great post! |
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Post by alexandra on Oct 15, 2018 16:26:23 GMT
Alexandra, thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I am fresh out of my relationship and definitely grieving and trying to be strong. I saw that juniper left the forum. I think that is my sense of how a DA would respond - they shut down when they feel triggered and I'm sorry that I sparked that. Juniper is also struggling with a recent death of someone close, so she's doing what's best for herself right now. She'll probably check back in at some point. |
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