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Post by hopeful53 on Oct 15, 2018 17:52:08 GMT
"What I can tell you with 99% confidence: a man/woman that is avoidant never truly has your back." I don't agree with this statement at all. An avoidant can, in fact, truly have your back. You are making a broad statement based on your own experience, I understand. But, it is simply not true in the broad sense. We should be mindful to not make such judgements on a whole group of individuals based on something as their attachment style. I'm sorry you were hurt in your relationship but, I would bet, if you looked closer, you would see that you participated at least 50% into the dynamic. We all have. That is where your healing will start to take place. Future, I don't think I was 50% based on what his own therapist of 12 years+ was telling me. And I worked with him for 16 months. However, I certainly factored into the equation. I think some DA's are actually less severe on a spectrum and I way overgeneralized. So I apologize and retract that statement. |
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 15, 2018 18:06:30 GMT
Alexandra, thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I am fresh out of my relationship and definitely grieving and trying to be strong. I saw that juniper left the forum. I think that is my sense of how a DA would respond - they shut down when they feel triggered and I'm sorry that I sparked that. Juniper is also struggling with a recent death of someone close, so she's doing what's best for herself right now. She'll probably check back in at some point. Also...Juniper has been here for a long time and has dealt with post after post that makes generalizations about DAs. She has tried often to shed light on the DA side of things from her perspective and I think she has had a lot of wisdom to share. Believe me...she has been triggered by these boards often and has shown a lot of resilience. I believe she is simply taking a break and will return. |
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hannah
Junior Member
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Post by hannah on Oct 15, 2018 18:59:47 GMT
Future, I don't think I was 50% based on what his own therapist of 12 years+ was telling me. And I worked with him for 16 months. However, I certainly factored into the equation. I think some DA's are actually less severe on a spectrum and I way overgeneralized. So I apologize and retract that statement. No worries, I appreciate your response. I am curious tho (and you don't need to answer) as to why his therapist would tell you he's too damaged. That sounds highly inappropriate. For one, when it comes to attachment injuries, science shows that the brain can absolutely be re-wired. For two, A therapist telling one client another client is too damaged, or commenting at all on the 1st clients mental health is a total conflict of interest and they should lose their license. I was ready to write a comment about the therapist posture as well. I would be very suspicious of a therapist who talks like that about another client. |
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Post by hopeful53 on Oct 15, 2018 20:06:56 GMT
No worries, I appreciate your response. I am curious tho (and you don't need to answer) as to why his therapist would tell you he's too damaged. That sounds highly inappropriate. For one, when it comes to attachment injuries, science shows that the brain can absolutely be re-wired. For two, A therapist telling one client another client is too damaged, or commenting at all on the 1st clients mental health is a total conflict of interest and they should lose their license. I was ready to write a comment about the therapist posture as well. I would be very suspicious of a therapist who talks like that about another client. I totally agreed, which is why I eventually stopped seeing him. I suspect my DA ex feels more comfortable with that therapist because he doesn't push him to truly grow. And he now practices without a license. However, I recently started seeing another therapist who I trust very much and he unfortunately said the same thing to me about my ex probably being too damaged. He said they want to help everyone, but that specific style of attachment can be very challenging. Again, I completely believe we are all on a spectrum here. And I'm impressed and humbled that there are DAs here willing and open to share. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 22:02:01 GMT
hopeful53 , juniper is DA and a bunch of the threads started by AP lately have been written in a tone that attacks avoidance instead of seeing it either as an incompatibility or looking at the AP piece of the dynamic with just as much interest in analysis and change as the person would like in their partner. So, there's too much blame inherent in the threads then asking how do I get the avoidant partner to see things my way instead of more interest in responsibility of the self to take care of one's needs in a healthy way. In your case, your partner may have been damaged but was doing his own work at his own pace. The healthier thing for you to allow you to leave was understand he won't change so your dynamic didn't work, and that's hard for an AP to accept so the narrative of blaming the partner may be necessary to allow you to make the healthy decision to leave. But if that decision is coming from a secure place, there doesn't need to be blame. So the issue becomes, for the people on this board who are early on in their progress, how can they start seeing things in a more secure way that focuses on themselves and not their partners and doesn't blame anyone. Advice to dismiss their partners as the problem may be good short-term advice to get them away from the dysfunctional relationship and dynamic, if it allows the person to get to a place of space and perspective from which they can self-reflect, see their own problems, and start to heal. But it's dangerous advice if the insecurely attached person will use blaming others to avoid that self-reflection later on. juniper , you should call out when that's happening, but it can be helpful for an AP to temporarily blame externally to get into a more self-focused mindset, as otherwise they'll self-blame and ruminate and stay stuck. It's not always martyrdom, depending on where in the awareness process the AP is. Alexandra, thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I am fresh out of my relationship and definitely grieving and trying to be strong. I saw that juniper left the forum. I think that is my sense of how a DA would respond - they shut down when they feel triggered and I'm sorry that I sparked that. this isn't a trigger. this is a matter of quality of interaction on the board- or lack thereof, from my perspective. i've been at this a minute, and don't feel hurt by ignorant and arrogant posts like yours. if anything, posts like this reveal your own weaknesses and defense mechanisms. there are times when there are a lot of mature, healthy, and insightful posters participating. then there are waves of newbie posters who are in victim-mode, blaming and denigrating their ex partners. at such a time, the quality of the content and feedback takes a nosedive. at such a time, it's far less useful and helpful to an avoidant's recovery to participate, from my experience. there's just to much dysfunctional avoidant slamming to have to wade through to be worth the time. so welcome to the boards and i hope you get some growth here. if you're open to some advice from a DA, learn to read the room a little bit before you go acting out. AP protest behavior, and victimspeak, gets old fast and may have contributed to your losses. It's a lot to put up with for even the healthiest people, and i'm surprised if your therapist didn't mention that. i'll return to the forum when it's not so icky, it's truly tiring to be one of the few dismissive avoidants participating in the midst of all the AP negativity. not my thing, i left the AP/DA dance a long time ago. good luck! |
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Post by camper78 on Oct 16, 2018 2:45:09 GMT
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 16, 2018 4:00:58 GMT
I'm sorry you are in limbo. I spent 5 years in limbo and it included a broken engagement and me going back trying to prove to my AD that he truly did love me. But the limbo came back up again when it was clear that this guy was never going to be able to respond to my basic emotional signaling. What I can tell you with 99% confidence: a man/woman that is avoidant never truly has your back. They are programmed not to as a defense mechanism. Programmed to create distance. And you attract them because you don't truly have your own back. If you did, you would self-protect. My relationship finally ended when I screamed and yelled that I wanted nothing to do with his delusional bullshit and I refuse to invest and waste years of my life in someone who was not enough. Ironically, he always claimed his past relationships never worked out because none of the women were ever enough. Projection city. If I may suggest, I would encourage you to look into EMDR therapy to deal with the pain and feelings of inadequacy so you can lessen the strength they hold over you. You can do it while you are still seeing him or you can go no contact and attempt to heal. I'd also like to add that my DA is 57 and I am 38. He has been in therapy for 12+ years. I eventually began seeing his therapist and was told that this man is too damaged and that his safe place is alone. That I am better but can't see it. I bet it's the same with you. You have more and bring more value and you are wasting your heart energy on someone who is broken. Thanks for sharing- my ex’s safe place is definitely alone and he’s not willing to put his heart on the line. Not now. He has defense mechanisms in place plus depression so it’s very difficult for him to be motivated to even try. Since the break I’ve been seeking answers- doing a ton of self-reflection and education to begin to re-wire my discovered AP ways. I tried EMDR and it seemed to do nothing for me but I feel I’ve made progress with other methods. I feel the difference emotionally. I don’t feel panicked in his absence although I miss what we had. I miss when he was hopeful. He’s such a good, wonderful person- loyal, honest, responsible,and smart. Until right before the break, I felt so safe and protected with him. It’s different now. It’s like he’s a different person. He’s really hurting. I’m pulling back bc I don’t know what else I can do besides try and respect what he wants and not overwhelm him, and I’ll continue to focus on my growth. This relationship has been the most eye opening experience of my life- that’s for sure. Best wishes to you... |
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Post by hopeful53 on Oct 16, 2018 4:08:34 GMT
Alexandra, thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I am fresh out of my relationship and definitely grieving and trying to be strong. I saw that juniper left the forum. I think that is my sense of how a DA would respond - they shut down when they feel triggered and I'm sorry that I sparked that. this isn't a trigger. this is a matter of quality of interaction on the board- or lack thereof, from my perspective. i've been at this a minute, and don't feel hurt by ignorant and arrogant posts like yours. if anything, posts like this reveal your own weaknesses and defense mechanisms. there are times when there are a lot of mature, healthy, and insightful posters participating. then there are waves of newbie posters who are in victim-mode, blaming and denigrating their ex partners. at such a time, the quality of the content and feedback takes a nosedive. at such a time, it's far less useful and helpful to an avoidant's recovery to participate, from my experience. there's just to much dysfunctional avoidant slamming to have to wade through to be worth the time. so welcome to the boards and i hope you get some growth here. if you're open to some advice from a DA, learn to read the room a little bit before you go acting out. AP protest behavior, and victimspeak, gets old fast and may have contributed to your losses. It's a lot to put up with for even the healthiest people, and i'm surprised if your therapist didn't mention that. i'll return to the forum when it's not so icky, it's truly tiring to be one of the few dismissive avoidants participating in the midst of all the AP negativity. not my thing, i left the AP/DA dance a long time ago. good luck Juniper, I’m not invested in this forum and would rather spend my time in therapy and doing EMDR to heal my childhood traumas, so I’m happy to remove myself. But not before I let you know that you seem to be doing the dance all by yourself here. Signing out and then back in, only to belittle someone you don’t know who is grieving and came to a forum connected to a book about leaving an avoidant partner. Have you read it? That part about how when you are with an avoidant you are truly alone in an attachment sense? Maybe you’re confused here about my stance. I made a thoughtless comment, apologized and retracted it. Yet you are still attacking me. You can’t help yourself because it’s how you feel better. And maybe you come here to gain some sense of superiority or to validate your wound- promoting beliefs. At the end of the day, you seem to be the one protesting and dismissing all at the same time. Now I’m sorry you lost someone close to you, but I don’t have empathy for your actions. You need to take a step back and evaluate. M’kay cupcake? |
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Post by lilyg on Oct 16, 2018 9:18:16 GMT
this isn't a trigger. this is a matter of quality of interaction on the board- or lack thereof, from my perspective. i've been at this a minute, and don't feel hurt by ignorant and arrogant posts like yours. if anything, posts like this reveal your own weaknesses and defense mechanisms. there are times when there are a lot of mature, healthy, and insightful posters participating. then there are waves of newbie posters who are in victim-mode, blaming and denigrating their ex partners. at such a time, the quality of the content and feedback takes a nosedive. at such a time, it's far less useful and helpful to an avoidant's recovery to participate, from my experience. there's just to much dysfunctional avoidant slamming to have to wade through to be worth the time. so welcome to the boards and i hope you get some growth here. if you're open to some advice from a DA, learn to read the room a little bit before you go acting out. AP protest behavior, and victimspeak, gets old fast and may have contributed to your losses. It's a lot to put up with for even the healthiest people, and i'm surprised if your therapist didn't mention that. i'll return to the forum when it's not so icky, it's truly tiring to be one of the few dismissive avoidants participating in the midst of all the AP negativity. not my thing, i left the AP/DA dance a long time ago. good luck Juniper, I’m not invested in this forum and would rather spend my time in therapy and doing EMDR to heal my childhood traumas, so I’m happy to remove myself. But not before I let you know that you seem to be doing the dance all by yourself here. Signing out and then back in, only to belittle someone you don’t know who is grieving and came to a forum connected to a book about leaving an avoidant partner. Have you read it? That part about how when you are with an avoidant you are truly alone in an attachment sense? Maybe you’re confused here about my stance. I made a thoughtless comment, apologized and retracted it. Yet you are still attacking me. You can’t help yourself because it’s how you feel better. And maybe you come here to gain some sense of superiority or to validate your wound- promoting beliefs. At the end of the day, you seem to be the one protesting and dismissing all at the same time. Now I’m sorry you lost someone close to you, but I don’t have empathy for your actions. You need to take a step back and evaluate. M’kay cupcake? is a very active contributor on this site, one of the few persons here with avoidant tendencies that help others see through her eyes as someone with this type of attachment. Personally, she has always helped me with great kindness and sincerity and it has helped me much more that if someone was just agreeing with my in everything. She's kind enough to help and guide others. Your post made me feel somewhat uneasy because I can see you judging 99% of avoidants in a very harsh way. Imagine if I tell you 99% on anxious never had your back because they're always protesting and looking for their own need for bonding instead of good interdependency. It depends on how far end of the spectrum are you in. Yes, you feel alone, or are very alone when you attach with an avoidant who is not working towards security, and own his/her attachment injuries, as much as you feel trapped and even somewhat abused with anxious who are not healing their attachment. All experts on attachment can tell you this, and advice against being in a relationship with someone who cannot take steps towards healthy relating. But they can also tell you that avoidants feel love and have needs for bonding. Of course if someone is bad behaving you have to take steps to have your own back and go away if your boundaries are being violated. I can tell you that if this is going on in your relationship my recommendation would be to go out of that relationship as fast as you can. Yet, a lot of people find a way to get out and trust, and develop a way to attach better. Some of them don't, and yes, an insecure partner can make for a bumpy ride, or a sad relationship. You cannot be insecure and unwilling to work on yourself and develop intimacy all the way. You seem to be coming from a place of hurt and trying to understand and get closure. But this is a forum in which we talk about all type of attachments and we often focus on the attachment of the own posters. anne12 is being kind enough to offer you a lot of links to heal heartbreak and about all this anger we all feel when we end a relationship with someone we deemed important in our lives. With that said, I think it's ok to be angry after a heartbreak. More so if you feel like you've been accepting a dynamic in which you felt neglected. Here, other posters are trying to make you focus on what's truly going on inside you. And yes, you have to have your back if you want a relationship with anyone. I try to say this to all new posters as some of their stories are very hard. There is avoidance and sometimes there are just unnaceptable attitudes going on. Take lots of care. I hope you're feeling better today. is a very active contributor on this site, one of the few persons here with avoidant tendencies that help others see through her eyes as someone with this type of attachment. Personally, she has always helped me with great kindness and sincerity and it has helped me much more that if someone was just agreeing with my in everything. She's kind enough to help and guide others. Your post made me feel somewhat uneasy because I can see you judging 99% of avoidants in a very harsh way. Imagine if I tell you 99% on anxious never had your back because they're always protesting and looking for their own need for bonding instead of good interdependency. It depends on how far end of the spectrum are you in. Yes, you feel alone, or are very alone when you attach with an avoidant who is not working towards security, and own his/her attachment injuries, as much as you feel trapped and even somewhat abused with anxious who are not healing their attachment. All experts on attachment can tell you this, and advice against being in a relationship with someone who cannot take steps towards healthy relating. But they can also tell you that avoidants feel love and have needs for bonding. Of course if someone is bad behaving you have to take steps to have your own back and go away if your boundaries are being violated. I can tell you that if this is going on in your relationship my recommendation would be to go out of that relationship as fast as you can. Yet, a lot of people find a way to get out and trust, and develop a way to attach better. Some of them don't, and yes, an insecure partner can make for a bumpy ride, or a hellish one. You decide what you're willing to have within a relationship. You cannot be insecure and unwilling to work on yourself and develop intimacy all the way. You seem to be coming from a place of hurt and trying to understand and get closure. But this is a forum in which we talk about all type of attachments and we often focus on the attachment of the own posters. anne12 is being kind enough to offer you a lot of links to heal heartbreak and about all this anger we all feel when we end a relationship with someone we deemed important in our lives. With that said, I think it's ok to be angry after a heartbreak. More so if you feel like you've been accepting a dynamic in which you felt neglected. Here, other posters are trying to make you focus on what's truly going on inside you. And yes, you have to have your back if you want a relationship with anyone. I try to say this to all new posters as some of their stories are very hard. Take lots of care. I hope you're feeling better today. |
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liz
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Post by liz on Oct 16, 2018 11:23:41 GMT
All of us are going to get triggered even if nothing here is at all personal, unless we know one another in real life. The different attachments styles, not to mention fundamental differences in personality and character, will blinker us and lead us to view the same situation in very different ways. The usefulness of the Forum is to become aware of our own blindspots, as we try to understand our own attachment styles and those of our family, romantic or platonic partners. Without the diversity of perspectives, the Forum just isn't as useful as a resource. Many of us are here precisely because we are unable to *see* from our partner's point of view, and so we want to hear it, the version of the relationship that is different from and contrarian to our own.
We don't need to sing Kumbaya here. We don't need to dictate whose opinions are worth more or less.
Honesty is preferable to me, even if I disagree, everyone has a right to speak their mind. The only Forum rule I would support is to put childish meanness aside, such as the sarcasm "cupcake", "you're oh so special and perfect aren't you?". If you have a leg to stand on, surely you don't need those playground putdowns to get your point across? |
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liz
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Post by liz on Oct 16, 2018 12:46:47 GMT
Or calling someone a "special snowflake" after telling them what a horrible person they are. I agree that this forum is really more of a place for self work. The most active users have made it that way. There is support and tough love for anyone who wants to understand and help themselves. As there are all attachment styles willing to help eachother, it is highly offensive and not an appropriate place to trash the style of whomever hurt you. There are many other forums for this. It's really that simple. future, how about a little context? Perhaps you would like to offer an opinion on epicgum's "What a special and perfect person you are, lol, leave my thread?" I'd really like to hear.
Also, please explain in what way I have told epicgum "what a horrible person" he is? Please feel free to quote from my posts to support your judgment here.
You do owe me an explanation, as you are calling me out and I would like a clarification.
I might be blind so I'd appreciate if you'd help me to "see".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2018 14:21:40 GMT
Alexandra, thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I am fresh out of my relationship and definitely grieving and trying to be strong. I saw that juniper left the forum. I think that is my sense of how a DA would respond - they shut down when they feel triggered and I'm sorry that I sparked that. this isn't a trigger. this is a matter of quality of interaction on the board- or lack thereof, from my perspective. i've been at this a minute, and don't feel hurt by ignorant and arrogant posts like yours. if anything, posts like this reveal your own weaknesses and defense mechanisms. there are times when there are a lot of mature, healthy, and insightful posters participating. then there are waves of newbie posters who are in victim-mode, blaming and denigrating their ex partners. at such a time, the quality of the content and feedback takes a nosedive. at such a time, it's far less useful and helpful to an avoidant's recovery to participate, from my experience. there's just to much dysfunctional avoidant slamming to have to wade through to be worth the time. so welcome to the boards and i hope you get some growth here. if you're open to some advice from a DA, learn to read the room a little bit before you go acting out. AP protest behavior, and victimspeak, gets old fast and may have contributed to your losses. It's a lot to put up with for even the healthiest people, and i'm surprised if your therapist didn't mention that. i'll return to the forum when it's not so icky, it's truly tiring to be one of the few dismissive avoidants participating in the midst of all the AP negativity. not my thing, i left the AP/DA dance a long time ago. good luck! Take care dear lady, thank you for helping me to see ME, your support and advice has helped me beyond measure. This site is blessed to have you. Take care ❤️❤️ |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 18:49:37 GMT
this isn't a trigger. this is a matter of quality of interaction on the board- or lack thereof, from my perspective. i've been at this a minute, and don't feel hurt by ignorant and arrogant posts like yours. if anything, posts like this reveal your own weaknesses and defense mechanisms. there are times when there are a lot of mature, healthy, and insightful posters participating. then there are waves of newbie posters who are in victim-mode, blaming and denigrating their ex partners. at such a time, the quality of the content and feedback takes a nosedive. at such a time, it's far less useful and helpful to an avoidant's recovery to participate, from my experience. there's just to much dysfunctional avoidant slamming to have to wade through to be worth the time. so welcome to the boards and i hope you get some growth here. if you're open to some advice from a DA, learn to read the room a little bit before you go acting out. AP protest behavior, and victimspeak, gets old fast and may have contributed to your losses. It's a lot to put up with for even the healthiest people, and i'm surprised if your therapist didn't mention that. i'll return to the forum when it's not so icky, it's truly tiring to be one of the few dismissive avoidants participating in the midst of all the AP negativity. not my thing, i left the AP/DA dance a long time ago. good luck Juniper, I’m not invested in this forum and would rather spend my time in therapy and doing EMDR to heal my childhood traumas, so I’m happy to remove myself. But not before I let you know that you seem to be doing the dance all by yourself here. Signing out and then back in, only to belittle someone you don’t know who is grieving and came to a forum connected to a book about leaving an avoidant partner. Have you read it? That part about how when you are with an avoidant you are truly alone in an attachment sense? Maybe you’re confused here about my stance. I made a thoughtless comment, apologized and retracted it. Yet you are still attacking me. You can’t help yourself because it’s how you feel better. And maybe you come here to gain some sense of superiority or to validate your wound- promoting beliefs. At the end of the day, you seem to be the one protesting and dismissing all at the same time. Now I’m sorry you lost someone close to you, but I don’t have empathy for your actions. You need to take a step back and evaluate. M’kay cupcake? so you made a comment and retracted it. you saying what you have to say doesn't mean i had said i all i had to say. take that how you want, i stand by what i've said and your empathy didn't present as your strong suit and wasn't something i'm after. i'd offer the same advice again, learn to read a room before you go acting out. you didn't a second time and that's ok, you have limitless opportunities to work on it. |
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