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Post by faithopelove on Oct 12, 2018 0:55:32 GMT
Curious as to how a DA feels in space from their partner (or ex) that they like to keep around at a safe distance...when that person goes silent on them...would a DA likely feel abandoned, relieved or not even give much thought to the silence? Would any grain of trust likely be broken in silence? I know as an anxious turning secure- time and space triggered me to feel abandoned and panicked. Thx for any insight.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 1:47:46 GMT
any threat to a feeling of safety in a relationship may trigger deactivation in a dismissive. it depends on if the silence feels intentional and the nature of the normal dynamic.
deactivation is a "turning off" of the attachment system, so rather than feeling abandoned and panicked, a dismissive will likely feel a decrease in interest in the relationship, and may actively talk themselves out of the attachment, while experiencing a loss of feeling associated with attachment.
internal thought processes may vary, but essentially a dismissive reacts to a lack of security by going away, moving physically and emotionally and mentally away from the relationship rather than toward it.
there is a shift in nervous system activity that i can feel- i may be unhappy but not at all anxious or panicky. i feel sedate, calm, and detached, with maybe periods of emotion that are easily muted or distracted from. if i am very unhappy i will be convinced that the relationship isn't worth it and needs to end, and i may have a resolve to not engage it further, while deactivated. at best, i may feel ambivalent. at worst, i might feel plain done. during this time i will do other stuff or just rest a lot.
dismissives have varying degrees of anxiety also- mine is very low so i rately have reacted by trying to establish contact and reconnect. if i experience unwelcome distance i might communicate that i'm unhappy but it will be while i'm slipping out of attachment and it's kind of an automatic thing to just avoid the relationship until my nervous system comes back to a more normal state. i will not want to have contact.
basically for me, with silence, i have a high threshold for what feels like unwelcome silence but once it becomes too much, it's you give an inch and i'll take a mile and the silence will deepen from my end. it will feel very undesirable for me to have contact until this resolves in me.
that's how it goes with unmitigated deactivation, for me- but i have spent a lot of time energy and effort into mitigating deactivation as i recover from insecure attachment.
i can say this- that if a relationship or interaction causes me stress i have a very real option of just leaving it be, and knowing i don't have to do anything about it, it will become more clear to me later what i want to do about it. unless the relationship is very important to me and i feel reciprocated, i can just set it aside for a bit and go do something that isn't painful or frustrating.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 12, 2018 2:00:14 GMT
any threat to a feeling of safety in a relationship may trigger deactivation in a dismissive. it depends on if the silence feels intentional and the nature of the normal dynamic. deactivation is a "turning off" of the attachment system, so rather than feeling abandoned and panicked, a dismissive will likely feel a decrease in interest in the relationship, and may actively talk themselves out of the attachment, while experiencing a loss of feeling associated with attachment. internal thought processes may vary, but essentially a dismissive reacts to a lack of security by going away, moving physically and emotionally and mentally away from the relationship rather than toward it. there is a shift in nervous system activity that i can feel- i may be unhappy but not at all anxious or panicky. i feel sedate, calm, and detached, with maybe periods of emotion that are easily muted or distracted from. if i am very unhappy i will be convinced that the relationship isn't worth it and needs to end, and i may have a resolve to not engage it further, while deactivated. at best, i may feel ambivalent. at worst, i might feel plain done. during this time i will do other stuff or just rest a lot. dismissives have varying degrees of anxiety also- mine is very low so i rately have reacted by trying to establish contact and reconnect. if i experience unwelcome distance i might communicate that i'm unhappy but it will be while i'm slipping out of attachment and it's kind of an automatic thing to just avoid the relationship until my nervous system comes back to a more normal state. i will not want to have contact. basically for me, with silence, i have a high threshold for what feels like unwelcome silence but once it becomes too much, it's you give an inch and i'll take a mile and the silence will deepen from my end. it will feel very undesirable for me to have contact until this resolves in me. that's how it goes with unmitigated deactivation, for me- but i have spent a lot of time energy and effort into mitigating deactivation as i recover from insecure attachment. i can say this- that if a relationship or interaction causes me stress i have a very real option of just leaving it be, and knowing i don't have to do anything about it, it will become more clear to me later what i want to do about it. unless the relationship is very important to me and i feel reciprocated, i can just set it aside for a bit and go do something that isn't painful or frustrating. Juniper, Thanks for your insight- it seems if I want to keep any kind of communication or positive interactions going between my ex and me, then I need to be the one to initiate. The way you described yourself, as “just letting it be,” is the same way I’d see him handling prolonged silence from me. I typically reach out every few days- or more. Problem is, even with reaching out, he may never want to reconcile. However, not reaching out at all seems to create an even bigger divide. Most days I feel strong enough to handle his warm and mostly cold behavior. Other days, the distance feels safer to me...it’s been 9 months trying to recover what he had...trying to rebuild his faith in us. Maybe I should let go of outcome and just be there for him as a friend. I’m lost on how to proceed, if at all. I do know that I still have feelings for him and I believe his feelings for me are still alive- just pushed down. Ultimately, I’d like to prove to him that he has someone in his life who believes in him and is there for him unconditionally - who feels he’s worthy to love and be loved and have his needs met. I’d like him to feel a safe place in me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 2:20:10 GMT
any threat to a feeling of safety in a relationship may trigger deactivation in a dismissive. it depends on if the silence feels intentional and the nature of the normal dynamic. deactivation is a "turning off" of the attachment system, so rather than feeling abandoned and panicked, a dismissive will likely feel a decrease in interest in the relationship, and may actively talk themselves out of the attachment, while experiencing a loss of feeling associated with attachment. internal thought processes may vary, but essentially a dismissive reacts to a lack of security by going away, moving physically and emotionally and mentally away from the relationship rather than toward it. there is a shift in nervous system activity that i can feel- i may be unhappy but not at all anxious or panicky. i feel sedate, calm, and detached, with maybe periods of emotion that are easily muted or distracted from. if i am very unhappy i will be convinced that the relationship isn't worth it and needs to end, and i may have a resolve to not engage it further, while deactivated. at best, i may feel ambivalent. at worst, i might feel plain done. during this time i will do other stuff or just rest a lot. dismissives have varying degrees of anxiety also- mine is very low so i rately have reacted by trying to establish contact and reconnect. if i experience unwelcome distance i might communicate that i'm unhappy but it will be while i'm slipping out of attachment and it's kind of an automatic thing to just avoid the relationship until my nervous system comes back to a more normal state. i will not want to have contact. basically for me, with silence, i have a high threshold for what feels like unwelcome silence but once it becomes too much, it's you give an inch and i'll take a mile and the silence will deepen from my end. it will feel very undesirable for me to have contact until this resolves in me. that's how it goes with unmitigated deactivation, for me- but i have spent a lot of time energy and effort into mitigating deactivation as i recover from insecure attachment. i can say this- that if a relationship or interaction causes me stress i have a very real option of just leaving it be, and knowing i don't have to do anything about it, it will become more clear to me later what i want to do about it. unless the relationship is very important to me and i feel reciprocated, i can just set it aside for a bit and go do something that isn't painful or frustrating. Juniper, Thanks for your insight- it seems if I want to keep any kind of communication or positive interactions going between my ex and me, then I need to be the one to initiate. The way you described yourself, as “just letting it be,” is the same way I’d see him handling prolonged silence from me. I typically reach out every few days- or more. Problem is, even with reaching out, he may never want to reconcile. However, not reaching out at all seems to create an even bigger divide. Most days I feel strong enough to handle his warm and mostly cold behavior. Other days, the distance feels safer to me...it’s been 9 months trying to recover what he had...trying to rebuild his faith in us. Maybe I should let go of outcome and just be there for him as a friend. I’m lost on how to proceed, if at all. I do know that I still have feelings for him and I believe his feelings for me are still alive- just pushed down. Ultimately, I’d like to prove to him that he has someone in his life who believes in him and is there for him unconditionally - who feels he’s worthy to love and be loved and have his needs met. I’d like him to feel a safe place in me. your previous posts have named your ex as FA. FA and DA are very different. if he is unaware DA he does not necessarily mind not having a relationship, and may have no connection to a feeling of unworthiness, and he may not have any awareness of having needs that he needs you to meet; not in the same way that you interpret your needs and would like him to meet them. DA and anxious needs are very different. very. very. an aware DA has needs and is more aware of them but it won't feel good to an anxious person to meet them. believe me. it will feel like starvation to an anxious person, to meet a dismissive's needs. at least that is what i perceive on this forum, from reading anxious postings about their relationships with dismissives. we have needs. but far fewer interpersonal needs than many people have. we tend to be pretty solitary and independent. even with a lot of work i need a lot of solitude and independence. and, if he is DA it's likely that his idea of love and relationship is a quite different from yours. if he is FA, then i can't say what he might think or feel because i truly don't understand the inner workings of the FA style. i can say that if a DA isn't participating, they have a reason for that and you aren't likely to bring them around- it's more natural for us if we are unaware to be out of relationship than in, or if in, at a distance. only internal factors can change that really, waiting around isn't going to cause a spontaneous shift. we pretty much do what we want, and not what we don't. so if it's been months and he is DA, it's not looking good. however- you've called him FA and i understood they circle back. so, it's anybody's guess what you've got there.
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 12, 2018 2:32:29 GMT
Most days I feel strong enough to handle his warm and mostly cold behavior. Other days, the distance feels safer to me...it’s been 9 months trying to recover what he had...trying to rebuild his faith in us. Maybe I should let go of outcome and just be there for him as a friend. I’m lost on how to proceed, if at all. I do know that I still have feelings for him and I believe his feelings for me are still alive- just pushed down. Ultimately, I’d like to prove to him that he has someone in his life who believes in him and is there for him unconditionally - who feels he’s worthy to love and be loved and have his needs met. I’d like him to feel a safe place in me. I love how you care about him and want to do what is right for and by him...but I wonder if you are placing him and his needs above your own. It is as if you are looking for the key that will unlock his heart...I did the same thing for months...I read every DA post and every FA post (especially by men) trying to find what would work...I still have those moments..but then I realize that I have gone down this rabbit hole before and nothing has changed. I am simply a "buddy" to him and that s not going to be enough for me. I am sending positive thoughts and hugs your way.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 12, 2018 3:10:20 GMT
Juniper, Thanks for your insight- it seems if I want to keep any kind of communication or positive interactions going between my ex and me, then I need to be the one to initiate. The way you described yourself, as “just letting it be,” is the same way I’d see him handling prolonged silence from me. I typically reach out every few days- or more. Problem is, even with reaching out, he may never want to reconcile. However, not reaching out at all seems to create an even bigger divide. Most days I feel strong enough to handle his warm and mostly cold behavior. Other days, the distance feels safer to me...it’s been 9 months trying to recover what he had...trying to rebuild his faith in us. Maybe I should let go of outcome and just be there for him as a friend. I’m lost on how to proceed, if at all. I do know that I still have feelings for him and I believe his feelings for me are still alive- just pushed down. Ultimately, I’d like to prove to him that he has someone in his life who believes in him and is there for him unconditionally - who feels he’s worthy to love and be loved and have his needs met. I’d like him to feel a safe place in me. your previous posts have named your ex as FA. FA and DA are very different. if he is unaware DA he does not necessarily mind not having a relationship, and may have no connection to a feeling of unworthiness, and he may not have any awareness of having needs that he needs you to meet; not in the same way that you interpret your needs and would like him to meet them. DA and anxious needs are very different. very. very. an aware DA has needs and is more aware of them but it won't feel good to an anxious person to meet them. believe me. it will feel like starvation to an anxious person, to meet a dismissive's needs. at least that is what i perceive on this forum, from reading anxious postings about their relationships with dismissives. we have needs. but far fewer interpersonal needs than many people have. we tend to be pretty solitary and independent. even with a lot of work i need a lot of solitude and independence. and, if he is DA it's likely that his idea of love and relationship is a quite different from yours. if he is FA, then i can't say what he might think or feel because i truly don't understand the inner workings of the FA style. i can say that if a DA isn't participating, they have a reason for that and you aren't likely to bring them around- it's more natural for us if we are unaware to be out of relationship than in, or if in, at a distance. only internal factors can change that really, waiting around isn't going to cause a spontaneous shift. we pretty much do what we want, and not what we don't. so if it's been months and he is DA, it's not looking good. however- you've called him FA and i understood they circle back. so, it's anybody's guess what you've got there. Yes, after further reading I feel he’s more DA although I see fear in him, too. I’m a little confused as to which avoidant he is, but I’d say now he’s predominantly DA. I feel like his fears have given way to more distrust since our break....the way he was typically with partners before me. If he circles back I feel like it would take him years- when we were together he told me he never looked back and would immediately delete an ex’s number but he didn’t do that to me. He said it was me or no one in our break up. So far he’s choosing no one.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 12, 2018 3:22:30 GMT
Most days I feel strong enough to handle his warm and mostly cold behavior. Other days, the distance feels safer to me...it’s been 9 months trying to recover what he had...trying to rebuild his faith in us. Maybe I should let go of outcome and just be there for him as a friend. I’m lost on how to proceed, if at all. I do know that I still have feelings for him and I believe his feelings for me are still alive- just pushed down. Ultimately, I’d like to prove to him that he has someone in his life who believes in him and is there for him unconditionally - who feels he’s worthy to love and be loved and have his needs met. I’d like him to feel a safe place in me. I love how you care about him and want to do what is right for and by him...but I wonder if you are placing him and his needs above your own. It is as if you are looking for the key that will unlock his heart...I did the same thing for months...I read every DA post and every FA post (especially by men) trying to find what would work...I still have those moments..but then I realize that I have gone down this rabbit hole before and nothing has changed. I am simply a "buddy" to him and that s not going to be enough for me. I am sending positive thoughts and hugs your way. tnr9- Hey, there. Yes, you’re right...I feel like I am searching for that key. I guess until one of us moves forward with another person I will at least have a dash of hope. I’d really like to see him feel better and be happy- even if we never reconcile. He’s a good man but so incredibly tortured and his own worst enemy. I have been putting his needs before my own- I feel I’m stronger and can handle the compromises more than him...most days I cope but of course I desire more but he’s not in the place to give more. I suppose some day I’ll throw in the towel if we’re not back- this relationship has stretched me and made me grow in ways I never thought possible and it’s been incredibly hard. Someday I may just get angry and never look back. Thank you for your support 🙏🏻💙
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 4:01:56 GMT
I love how you care about him and want to do what is right for and by him...but I wonder if you are placing him and his needs above your own. It is as if you are looking for the key that will unlock his heart...I did the same thing for months...I read every DA post and every FA post (especially by men) trying to find what would work...I still have those moments..but then I realize that I have gone down this rabbit hole before and nothing has changed. I am simply a "buddy" to him and that s not going to be enough for me. I am sending positive thoughts and hugs your way. tnr9- Hey, there. Yes, you’re right...I feel like I am searching for that key. I guess until one of us moves forward with another person I will at least have a dash of hope. I’d really like to see him feel better and be happy- even if we never reconcile. He’s a good man but so incredibly tortured and his own worst enemy. I have been putting his needs before my own- I feel I’m stronger and can handle the compromises more than him...most days I cope but of course I desire more but he’s not in the place to give more. I suppose some day I’ll throw in the towel if we’re not back- this relationship has stretched me and made me grow in ways I never thought possible and it’s been incredibly hard. Someday I may just get angry and never look back. Thank you for your support 🙏🏻💙 there's no key. only a DA can unlock themselves. we do everything on our own, until we get healthier. then we can be interdependent and grow. but until the impetus happens within, we will be frustrating to anyone who tries to unlock us. we don't want to be unlocked probably. we want to unlock our own hearts. i've not seen it happen otherwise. that's a fairy tale.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 12, 2018 4:07:12 GMT
Juniper, Thanks for your insight- it seems if I want to keep any kind of communication or positive interactions going between my ex and me, then I need to be the one to initiate. The way you described yourself, as “just letting it be,” is the same way I’d see him handling prolonged silence from me. I typically reach out every few days- or more. Problem is, even with reaching out, he may never want to reconcile. However, not reaching out at all seems to create an even bigger divide. Most days I feel strong enough to handle his warm and mostly cold behavior. Other days, the distance feels safer to me...it’s been 9 months trying to recover what he had...trying to rebuild his faith in us. Maybe I should let go of outcome and just be there for him as a friend. I’m lost on how to proceed, if at all. I do know that I still have feelings for him and I believe his feelings for me are still alive- just pushed down. Ultimately, I’d like to prove to him that he has someone in his life who believes in him and is there for him unconditionally - who feels he’s worthy to love and be loved and have his needs met. I’d like him to feel a safe place in me. your previous posts have named your ex as FA. FA and DA are very different. if he is unaware DA he does not necessarily mind not having a relationship, and may have no connection to a feeling of unworthiness, and he may not have any awareness of having needs that he needs you to meet; not in the same way that you interpret your needs and would like him to meet them. DA and anxious needs are very different. very. very. an aware DA has needs and is more aware of them but it won't feel good to an anxious person to meet them. believe me. it will feel like starvation to an anxious person, to meet a dismissive's needs. at least that is what i perceive on this forum, from reading anxious postings about their relationships with dismissives. we have needs. but far fewer interpersonal needs than many people have. we tend to be pretty solitary and independent. even with a lot of work i need a lot of solitude and independence. and, if he is DA it's likely that his idea of love and relationship is a quite different from yours. if he is FA, then i can't say what he might think or feel because i truly don't understand the inner workings of the FA style. i can say that if a DA isn't participating, they have a reason for that and you aren't likely to bring them around- it's more natural for us if we are unaware to be out of relationship than in, or if in, at a distance. only internal factors can change that really, waiting around isn't going to cause a spontaneous shift. we pretty much do what we want, and not what we don't. so if it's been months and he is DA, it's not looking good. however- you've called him FA and i understood they circle back. so, it's anybody's guess what you've got there. juniper- maybe you’ll know better if he’s DA or FA. The notable things he’d say often in our relationship were: You better not leave me! You’re too good to be true! I’ve never opened my heart up to anyone before you. You’re my best and last. Just don’t ever cheat on me. Just be honest. I always thought I’d die alone. I normally have walls I use as a defense mechanism, but I didn’t with you. ](Seemed fearful/anxious to me...) He always had a hard time expressing his needs and expecting his needs to be met- he’d say he wasn’t used to anyone asking or caring how he’s doing. He feels deeply unworthy to love and be loved, as if his feelings and needs don’t matter. Since the break he’s told me... I deserve better. He’s incapable of being in a relationship- there’s something wrong with him but he doesn’t know what it is. He doesn’t mean to be tough on me but he has a hard time trusting This is the first time he’s remained alone in a break up without jumping to another girl. I have no idea how unhappy he is or how bad off he is. It doesn’t matter how he feels. He’s in a funk he can’t get out of. He’ll die alone. He’s very careful to have strong boundaries and not string me along. He sees me one hour. No phone calls or dates. He only initiated contact 3 times in 9 months. He wife cheated on him and divorced him 7 years ago for another man who deeply hurt him. He always said he values honesty and loyalty above all else. Due to their kids they are still in constant communication which is salt in his wounds. So I feel he’s been highly dismissive since the break but showed other signs before of FA. Could he be a mix? Thx in advance....
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 12, 2018 4:10:43 GMT
tnr9- Hey, there. Yes, you’re right...I feel like I am searching for that key. I guess until one of us moves forward with another person I will at least have a dash of hope. I’d really like to see him feel better and be happy- even if we never reconcile. He’s a good man but so incredibly tortured and his own worst enemy. I have been putting his needs before my own- I feel I’m stronger and can handle the compromises more than him...most days I cope but of course I desire more but he’s not in the place to give more. I suppose some day I’ll throw in the towel if we’re not back- this relationship has stretched me and made me grow in ways I never thought possible and it’s been incredibly hard. Someday I may just get angry and never look back. Thank you for your support 🙏🏻💙 there's no key. only a DA can unlock themselves. we do everything on our own, until we get healthier. then we can be interdependent and grow. but until the impetus happens within, we will be frustrating to anyone who tries to unlock us. we don't want to be unlocked probably. we want to unlock our own hearts. i've not seen it happen otherwise. that's a fairy tale. Truth- he needs to change himself.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 4:16:17 GMT
there's no key. only a DA can unlock themselves. we do everything on our own, until we get healthier. then we can be interdependent and grow. but until the impetus happens within, we will be frustrating to anyone who tries to unlock us. we don't want to be unlocked probably. we want to unlock our own hearts. i've not seen it happen otherwise. that's a fairy tale. Truth- he needs to change himself. or not- in actuality, in this situation, you need to change yourself more than he does, because you are the one with an expectation for change. he's probably just living his status quo.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 12, 2018 4:24:55 GMT
Truth- he needs to change himself. or not- in actuality, in this situation, you need to change yourself more than he does, because you are the one with an expectation for change. he's probably just living his status quo. Yes, he’s living in default, I’m sure of it. I have changed a lot in this past year, as I never could’ve tolerated time and space before- my triggers as an AP. I don’t feel the desperation or anxiety in his absence anymore. AP being dubbed “love addict” maybe that’s the part of me who still holds onto hope. If I wasn’t at all AP I would’ve given up on him many months ago. His status quo though leaves him in a dark prison of depression and hopelessness where death is his escape.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 4:35:34 GMT
or not- in actuality, in this situation, you need to change yourself more than he does, because you are the one with an expectation for change. he's probably just living his status quo. Yes, he’s living in default, I’m sure of it. I have changed a lot in this past year, as I never could’ve tolerated time and space before- my triggers as an AP. I don’t feel the desperation or anxiety in his absence anymore. AP being dubbed “love addict” maybe that’s the part of me who still holds onto hope. If I wasn’t at all AP I would’ve given up on him many months ago. His status quo though leaves him in a dark prison of depression and hopelessness where death is his escape. hmmm, it sounds like depression is influencing him more than an attachment style at this time. not all dismissives are depressed in their dismissive state. i don't know if he is FA or DA, i really couldn't relate to the things he said in the relationship, and the things he said after the break could be either or i think. but, the depressive side of it just sounds like depression. at any rate, you seem to have a cape on here- you do sound co dependent or love addicted. i get that you would like to help but in reality, it's all his battle.
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 12, 2018 11:19:46 GMT
I agree about the cape....and reading his statements above...I can understand why.....he appears to need you...and that is a bit of a double edged sword for APs. There is a deep desire to rescue and to be "needed"...but there is also a bit of narcissism in his "you better not leave me" as if he won't be ok without you. That is not fair to you...he is triggering a very caring part of you but he is unwilling to make any changes that would change the dynamic to be more "equal" and less about him and his depressive state. I will echo what Juniper said about DA or FA, he needs to want to change. Words without action are hollow. If he has no desire to address his issues...then it may be best to let him go in love. You obviously have great capacity to care and love and the good enough guy will absolutely appreciate that about you...but he won't take advantage if it by keeping you in a cape mode. I am sending hugs.
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