What should i do when DA won't message back? | Jeb Kinnison Attachment Type Forum

beth
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What should i do when DA won't message back? Oct 27, 2018 21:45:40 GMT Rookie likes this

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Post by beth on Oct 27, 2018 21:45:40 GMT

Oct 27, 2018 21:26:58 GMT andy said:

Oct 27, 2018 20:30:48 GMT beth said:

Hey Andy - thank you so much for replying! Several things you suggested here made me quite emotional. You're absolutely right in that i am like you with the AP behaviour of accommodation and this is what i meant when i said i wanted to modify my behaviour - so that i could be more accommodating of things on his terms and not have expectations of things on my terms. This DOES sound really sad! And actually it is really sad! And i feel really sad right now! haha. Especially because reading your post made me think about a lot of things - especially the next part of your post where you talk about whether i would consider dating other people. The reality is, that i have found after 7 years of dating proactively and being really positive in thinking that it is possible to find a real relationship where someone wants to commit, i have to be honest with myself and accept that it is NOT possible. In 7 years of dating (and before that i was just taking it easy) i have not been out with a SINGLE guy who wanted me for anything more than sex. I am unfortunately the kind of person who only goes on dates with people whom i actually like and are attracted to, and men seem to be able to smell this a mile off. My friends all get boyfriends by starting off dating men whom they seem to despise, or at least look down upon, on some level, and this keeps the men keen and determined to 'prove' to them that they are worthy, and so eventually they end up in long term, committed relationships. I just can't bring myself to date people i don't like. So go out with men who i like, but they know i like them, and consequently there is not challenge and i'm the nice, boring girl.
I'm 33 years old. It's almost 'times up' for me. I just know, from the core of my soul, that i will never find someone who wants to be with me (who i actually like and respect), so i have to take what i can get. And the only way to do that is accept how these men want to treat me.

beth , this may seem strange, but I think your sadness may be a healthy sign that you are starting to have some compassion for yourself. A sign that you KNOW you deserve more than what you've been telling yourself is possible. So I think it may be okay to sit with the sadness and really experience it and think about what is making you sad. In other words, what are you not allowing yourself that you know you need and deserve? How does your current relationship not line up with your deepest values? When you think about your deepest values and your healthy self-loving standards for yourself, you may be able to start to shift things slowly. So sadness can be part of a very positive process. Congratulations may be in order! <3

I strongly disagree with you that it is not possible for you to find a relationship with a guy who wants to commit and not just to use you for sex. It is great that you don't date people you don't like, but have you given some thought to what you believe you "like"? Is it attractive to you when someone acts elusive and makes you feel inadequate? That is a common experience, nothing to be ashamed of but something to reflect on and work on, and there are lots of threads talking about what's behind the "fireworks" or "sparks" experience (often insecure attachment). (If anyone can link to those specific threads, please do!) Have you tried dating clearly nice (possibly boring-seeming) guys even if you don't feel drawn to them at first - just giving it a bit of time to see what develops?

"Smell this a mile off"... to me this is a very concerning way to think about caring about someone and being attracted to them. Do you believe that your romantic feelings and attraction will always be a turn-off to prospective partners and be used against you in some kind of abuse of power dynamic? A secure partner will want to know that you are really into them and would not date you if this were not the case. Liking somebody is not a liability or weakness in a relationship with a secure partner but an absolute requirement.

I don't know what your social circle is like... maybe you have lots of friends who have their own serious attachment issues on the avoidant spectrum and like to hold their partner at arm's length and feel less invested in the relationship in order to stuff down their feelings of vulnerability. But I can tell you that there are many, MANY relationships out there where nobody is trying to get a one-up on anyone else in terms of power and both people really like each other and it's not a struggle or mystery in any way.

33 is absolutely not too late. There are people who find happy relationships at absolutely every stage of the human lifespan. My grandpa was 80+ when he found a very loving and dedicated girlfriend after my grandma passed away. I'm 36 and I actually prefer to date people who are a little older than me.

In saying all of this, I am not trying to suggest that the path forward is easy or obvious. I suspect that your attachment issues are deeply rooted - they are for most of us, as they helped us to survive when we were really young and helpless. Do you have any way of accessing counselling? It can be out of reach for lots of people financially, but maybe there are community-based organizations near you that offer reduced-fee counselling? Or places where counselling students have their practicum placements - often way cheaper? Or some services may be covered in a health benefits plan, if you have one?

Keep posting here, too - it is free and I've seen many people do excellent work with support from others posters and start to see some changes in themselves.

Very best wishes to you. *hugs offered*

Yeah i have tried dating 'boring' guys before. Only tried twice. First time i had to stop seeing him after 4 dates i think, because i was physically repulsed by kissing him because i just was not attracted to him. Second guy i dated for 6 months (he broke up with me anyway because he was a backpacker and had come to the end of his time in Australia and apparently never had any intention of continuing things with me) but towards the last few months i just resented him so much because i didn't respect his personality or anything about him really, and he was a 'good' guy.
Yes i do believe that my romantic feelings and attraction will always be a turn off, because i know for a fact that guys get bored with 'nice' girls - even secure guys. Secure guys even need to feel that the girl is 'high value' and they have won a prize - not just been handed her on a plate.
I guess when i said that time was nearly up for me i meant to find someone to have a family with. That was always really important to me, to experience being a mother. Even just having a family of 2, just me and a partner would be amazing! But i'm not including waiting until i'm 80+ like your Pa! Thats lovely that he found love, but i just can't stand the thought of 30, 40, 50 years of being alone and then finding someone - it doesn't really count if i have to spend that long resenting being alone.
I see a therapist twice a week! I'm really lucky in that regard, that i am in a position to financially afford it. She is the only person in the world who listens to me and the only person who believes me and doesn't try to tell me that i still have time to find someone haha.
Thank you for the hugs! Geez this whole thread turned out badly. I really don't know what i'm going to do with the rest of my life. I'm absolutely desolate and i don't know what to do.

andy
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What should i do when DA won't message back? Oct 27, 2018 22:02:41 GMT kibbins and faithopelove like this

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Post by andy on Oct 27, 2018 22:02:41 GMT

Hey, why do you think the thread turned out badly? I didn't think so, I thought it really got somewhere. *more hugs*

I didn't mean to discount the real time pressures re: having kids - did not know that is what you meant. There are biological limitations for sure. I have a friend who went it alone through donor insemination and is really happy with her family - two sweet little daughters, still no partner six years on. But I know lots of people would not want to parent solo, and there are very legit and sound reasons for that.

I disagree with you that it's a fact that guys are not into nice girls but I hear you that that has been your experience re: what you've observed. But I've observed something quite different. From what I've seen, lots of people of all genders want a partner for the sake of mutuality and authentic connection rather than image/trophy kinds of reasons.

Totally hear you that it is hard to take multiple decades of resentment about being alone. It would really require a deep shift in your feelings about not having a romantic partner to make long periods of being single feel less painful, and it can be hard to create that shift. And it's a common and legitimate wish, to have a partner. But I think that having a partner who doesn't treat you as you deserve to be treated is more painful than creating the life you want on your own and with your friends and other important people. Everyone is different though, and I am totally not trying to invalidate your wishes for your life.

So glad to hear you've got a therapist who listens to you and believes you - sounds like an awesome fit, which can be hard to find in a therapist. So that's a big important piece of the puzzle already found.

beth
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What should i do when DA won't message back? Oct 27, 2018 22:14:00 GMT Rookie likes this

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Post by beth on Oct 27, 2018 22:14:00 GMT

Oct 27, 2018 22:02:41 GMT andy said:

Hey, why do you think the thread turned out badly? I didn't think so, I thought it really got somewhere. *more hugs*

I didn't mean to discount the real time pressures re: having kids - did not know that is what you meant. There are biological limitations for sure. I have a friend who went it alone through donor insemination and is really happy with her family - two sweet little daughters, still no partner six years on. But I know lots of people would not want to parent solo, and there are very legit and sound reasons for that.

I disagree with you that it's a fact that guys are not into nice girls but I hear you that that has been your experience re: what you've observed. But I've observed something quite different. From what I've seen, lots of people of all genders want a partner for the sake of mutuality and authentic connection rather than image/trophy kinds of reasons.

Totally hear you that it is hard to take multiple decades of resentment about being alone. It would really require a deep shift in your feelings about not having a romantic partner to make long periods of being single feel less painful, and it can be hard to create that shift. And it's a common and legitimate wish, to have a partner. But I think that having a partner who doesn't treat you as you deserve to be treated is more painful than creating the life you want on your own and with your friends and other important people. Everyone is different though, and I am totally not trying to invalidate your wishes for your life.

So glad to hear you've got a therapist who listens to you and believes you - sounds like an awesome fit, which can be hard to find in a therapist. So that's a big important piece of the puzzle already found.

Thanks for being kind in your reply! Most people just get frustrated at my beliefs and give up. The thing that stands out is where you say "having a partner who doesn't treat you as you deserve to be treated is more painful than creating the life you want on your own" - thats just it - "creating a life that i want on my own" is an oxymoron. I don't want a life on my life. I have tried sooooo many things to find fulfillment on my own (travelling, hobbies, friends, challenges, etc) and i am genuinely bored by life and anything it has to offer. The only time i have any interest in life is when i have a man. And people can criticize that all they want, but after 6 years of constant therapy (including one type where i took 6 months off work to do an intensive workshop group based thing that was half a day, twice a week, facilitated through a private mental health hospital) it's not going to change. Being completely bored by every waking minute of life is worse than just being treated badly by a guy, because i can get used to being treated badly, but have not been able to get used to the unending boredom of being alone. Anyway, just some insight into why i said "this thread has turned out badly" because now i'm thinking about all that stuff haha

alexandra
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What should i do when DA won't message back? Oct 28, 2018 3:00:56 GMT Rookie, stayhappy, and 2 more like this

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Post by alexandra on Oct 28, 2018 3:00:56 GMT

beth, I know how you feel and spent a long time feeling that way myself. My friends, and even strangers, could not figure out why I had the worst "luck" with dating. Why I always ended up with jerks or non-committal guys. They said I wasn't doing anything wrong (and they still believe this) and I have a lot to offer. It made no sense to anyone, as I watched them pair off and find decent partners to marry. A couple of them also had unstable relationships (one in particular, who is similar to me -- lovely person, nothing "wrong" with her, has dated awful people, desperately doesn't want to end up alone, doesn't understand what's going on, in the same boat as us about wanting a family and running out of time). Eventually, I figured out I was AP. Once I actually understood what that meant and could recognize the behaviors (not just in myself but in other people as well), I asked her to take an attachment style assessment, and she's AP as well.

The thought track you have right now is very, very AP, and it's doing you a big disservice. I know where you're at, so I know that sounds hard to believe and hard to grasp. After years of rejection and always dating the wrong people who don't seem to want what you want and listening to all the messages in pop culture, you end up believing there's something wrong with you, getting bitter about dating, feeling helpless, feeling like a good relationship will never happen (and why should you believe otherwise if you don't understand the underlying problems and why you're encountering them?), and being resentful about all these people who find relationships telling you it will happen. Statistically, yeah, it probably will eventually, but you have no positive experience to draw on to believe that.

I'm not going to tell you that you're going to find a relationship in time to start a family. So far, I haven't and I'm older than you. That may cause you to have to make big decisions that aren't ideal.

BUT. Here's the thing. I was extremely AP for my entire life. It took me 6 years after learning that to earn secure. It took me almost as much time to understand what that meant and what to do about it, and I'd say after just shy of 2 years and a whole lot of pain, I worked my way out of it. And when I did, my thought patterns just changed. Really. I talked a little bit to my AP friend about it and she can't conceptualize of it. "This is always the way I've thought." Ie, this is who she is. I don't think I could have conceptualized of it either until it happened.

Thread about how I did it here (required a lot of self-esteem building, which you can work on with your therapist... I'd recommend you discuss attachment theory in more detail with the therapist as well to see if they know much about it): jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1262/attachment-style-self-help-suggestions

So now that it happened, I'm basically out of time to find a partner to make children with and I'm trying to figure out what the options are. But I no longer think, I'll never meet anyone. Maybe I won't in time to have kids with them, but I'm sure I'll meet someone at some point. I'm not so worried about it. This is because, I now recognize what each of the insecure attachment styles look like in people (and I should, I've dated all of them) and I also recognize what secure looks like. For years and years and years, I complained my picker must be broken. I guess that was kind of true. All of the sudden, I don't believe that anymore. I have confidence in my choices of partners, and that if I meet someone new, I'm going to know really quickly if they're someone I should attach to and could have a healthy relationship or not. I almost never dated secure people.

Insecure people attract other insecure people, both as friends and especially as partners. It's not conscious. I agree with the poster who asked if your other friends, who date guys they don't like to get them chasing and eventually "settle" for them or start to actually like them over time. This sounds like your friends may be insecure attachers on the avoidant end. It isn't that guys only want you for sex, it is that you are choosing insecurely attached men. You're not doing it on purpose. But it will keep happening over and over and over again until you are ready to tackle your side of things and begin to understand yourself and heal.

I was the same way. I didn't want to date guys who I wasn't attracted to. Again, I didn't end up dating too many secure guys to begin with, but one in particular stands out to me from my early 20s. He was great, and we're still in touch, and he's a stand up guy, and a wonderful husband and father. We had reasons unrelated to attachment why we couldn't really pursue a relationship at the time, but I bet it wouldn't have worked out if those logistics weren't there. Because I remember thinking, he's so nice but I bet if I dated him for any amount of time for real I'd get bored. I'm not sure why? But I think I would? And... in retrospect that would have probably been true because I wasn't ready or in a mindset to date someone stable. I was chasing sparks, all the time, and never getting past that stage, even if I dated guys for 1-2 years at a time (who would commit to being serial monogamists but not commit for real, to moving in or engagement etc.).

Also agree with the poster who suggested you read the posts about sparks, so I dug them up (I've also contributed to both of them, because I have a lot of thoughts on how AP/FA anxiety activating the nervous system can manifest as attraction).

jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1354/over-phantom-stop-looking-perfection

jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1388/sparks-fireworks

Thinking about love that way just crushed me whenever it wasn't reciprocated or a promising beginning didn't go anywhere. I was so held down under layers and layers of attachment injury, that wasn't actually related to the romantic partner but magnified the rejection a gazillion times, that it would take forever to get over people I actually cared about. In my most recent long term mess of a relationship (with an FA), we really care about each other and were sort of secure for a long time. And that was the first time I ever felt what comes AFTER the sparks and fireworks, when it's about who the person is and not how attracted you feel or being emotionally hungry. It was warm and calm and comfortable and what it turns out I actually want. It's been easier to make sense of all the dysfunctional AP thinking since experiencing that, but experiencing that came from years of trying to check and adjust and be more reasonable and more of a "cool girl" when my inexplicable anxiety popped up (inexplicable because I'm not really an anxious person outside of relationships and because I'm usually reasonable but would experience patterned unreasonable bouts of thought patterns and behavior that I now understand were AP injury).

There's a lot, so this got long and doesn't even cover it. It may also be too much information at once based on me thinking back to when I was where you are and would have been a bit confused by what I'm posting now. But if you can get started on focusing on yourself and healing your AP and forget about all those stupid guys who have been too emotionally insecure to commit to you (which wasn't your fault, but sticking around and allowing it and hoping they'll change is in your control), you can start feeling better and maybe can get to a point that you will still have time to find someone to have a couple kids with. It isn't guaranteed, but you CAN feel better about all of it, and I am an example of a reformed AP and how it's in your control to accept yourself, forgive yourself, and move forward in a positive way.

cris88
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What should i do when DA won't message back? Oct 28, 2018 5:05:11 GMT via mobile

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Post by cris88 on Oct 28, 2018 5:05:11 GMT

Oct 27, 2018 22:14:00 GMT beth said:

Oct 27, 2018 22:02:41 GMT andy said:

Hey, why do you think the thread turned out badly? I didn't think so, I thought it really got somewhere. *more hugs*

I didn't mean to discount the real time pressures re: having kids - did not know that is what you meant. There are biological limitations for sure. I have a friend who went it alone through donor insemination and is really happy with her family - two sweet little daughters, still no partner six years on. But I know lots of people would not want to parent solo, and there are very legit and sound reasons for that.

I disagree with you that it's a fact that guys are not into nice girls but I hear you that that has been your experience re: what you've observed. But I've observed something quite different. From what I've seen, lots of people of all genders want a partner for the sake of mutuality and authentic connection rather than image/trophy kinds of reasons.

Totally hear you that it is hard to take multiple decades of resentment about being alone. It would really require a deep shift in your feelings about not having a romantic partner to make long periods of being single feel less painful, and it can be hard to create that shift. And it's a common and legitimate wish, to have a partner. But I think that having a partner who doesn't treat you as you deserve to be treated is more painful than creating the life you want on your own and with your friends and other important people. Everyone is different though, and I am totally not trying to invalidate your wishes for your life.

So glad to hear you've got a therapist who listens to you and believes you - sounds like an awesome fit, which can be hard to find in a therapist. So that's a big important piece of the puzzle already found.

Thanks for being kind in your reply! Most people just get frustrated at my beliefs and give up. The thing that stands out is where you say "having a partner who doesn't treat you as you deserve to be treated is more painful than creating the life you want on your own" - thats just it - "creating a life that i want on my own" is an oxymoron. I don't want a life on my life. I have tried sooooo many things to find fulfillment on my own (travelling, hobbies, friends, challenges, etc) and i am genuinely bored by life and anything it has to offer. The only time i have any interest in life is when i have a man. And people can criticize that all they want, but after 6 years of constant therapy (including one type where i took 6 months off work to do an intensive workshop group based thing that was half a day, twice a week, facilitated through a private mental health hospital) it's not going to change. Being completely bored by every waking minute of life is worse than just being treated badly by a guy, because i can get used to being treated badly, but have not been able to get used to the unending boredom of being alone. Anyway, just some insight into why i said "this thread has turned out badly" because now i'm thinking about all that stuff haha

I get what you say and I sense a lot of hurt in those words because I've felt the same way too. I sometimes feel there must be something very, very wrong with me for not being able to maintain a relationship or someone interested enough.

Still, I understand we approach things in a very different way and I respect how you feel but at the same time I think it's a bit self destructive since you prefer to focus on someone else than yourself.

I feel in this case giving advice on ( what to do if the person you are chasing doesn't respond the way you want so you can't keep your own narrative going) is like giving tips to an anorexic on how to starve themselves.

I know things don't work the way we imagined most of the times. We don't get the lovely kind of relationship we hoped for but sometimes that is a reflection of how unworthy we really see ourselves. I don't think you are so happy and well with the lack of contact, you are just taking what you can get but you don't deserve just the scraps, that sort of shows a lack of self love.

hannah
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Posts: 67

What should i do when DA won't message back? Oct 28, 2018 11:47:46 GMT alexandra likes this

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Post by hannah on Oct 28, 2018 11:47:46 GMT

I don't think the thread turned out badly, quite the contrary. Since many months on this forum I have never seen such a fast switch from denial to self-awareness and I think it's really great what you were able to do here, really!

I think inner work on your attachment style is the key. You say you are bored by life and only excited when there is a man by your side. But if I understand well you have never been in a really committed relationship so that's the pursuer-distancer dynamic that keeps you busy/excited/distracted ? Chances are that, without healing your attachment wounds, you become bored again in a stable relationship, once the initial sparks are gone and that you'll create drama to keep the excitement. I can give my example. I'm FA and highly anxious when in a relationship. I was in a relationship for 10 years, living together and everything and guess what ? I kept the same mindset of yours for years, I could not believe I was lovable, I could not trust my ex, I could not accept his love. 3 years before the end I started to work on myself but I didn't know about attachment styles, I thought I was a kind of love addict and work on my self confidence and jealousy. So after 3 years I started to accept his love but it was too late. What I'm trying to say is finding the right man is not a real answer if you don't work on yourself.

And about it's being too late, I'm the same age as you and sometimes I think the same when I'm anxious. But what I see on dating apps for example, is that there are many men looking for somone to build a family with. I say that cause I don't want to have kids and I'm forced to give up many good matchs because of that and there are not a lot of men who don't want a family.

Last Edit: Oct 28, 2018 12:21:22 GMT by hannah

Deleted
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What should i do when DA won't message back? Oct 29, 2018 1:31:23 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 1:31:23 GMT

Oct 27, 2018 22:14:00 GMT beth said:

Oct 27, 2018 22:02:41 GMT andy said:

Hey, why do you think the thread turned out badly? I didn't think so, I thought it really got somewhere. *more hugs*

I didn't mean to discount the real time pressures re: having kids - did not know that is what you meant. There are biological limitations for sure. I have a friend who went it alone through donor insemination and is really happy with her family - two sweet little daughters, still no partner six years on. But I know lots of people would not want to parent solo, and there are very legit and sound reasons for that.

I disagree with you that it's a fact that guys are not into nice girls but I hear you that that has been your experience re: what you've observed. But I've observed something quite different. From what I've seen, lots of people of all genders want a partner for the sake of mutuality and authentic connection rather than image/trophy kinds of reasons.

Totally hear you that it is hard to take multiple decades of resentment about being alone. It would really require a deep shift in your feelings about not having a romantic partner to make long periods of being single feel less painful, and it can be hard to create that shift. And it's a common and legitimate wish, to have a partner. But I think that having a partner who doesn't treat you as you deserve to be treated is more painful than creating the life you want on your own and with your friends and other important people. Everyone is different though, and I am totally not trying to invalidate your wishes for your life.

So glad to hear you've got a therapist who listens to you and believes you - sounds like an awesome fit, which can be hard to find in a therapist. So that's a big important piece of the puzzle already found.

Thanks for being kind in your reply! Most people just get frustrated at my beliefs and give up. The thing that stands out is where you say "having a partner who doesn't treat you as you deserve to be treated is more painful than creating the life you want on your own" - thats just it - "creating a life that i want on my own" is an oxymoron. I don't want a life on my life. I have tried sooooo many things to find fulfillment on my own (travelling, hobbies, friends, challenges, etc) and i am genuinely bored by life and anything it has to offer. The only time i have any interest in life is when i have a man. And people can criticize that all they want, but after 6 years of constant therapy (including one type where i took 6 months off work to do an intensive workshop group based thing that was half a day, twice a week, facilitated through a private mental health hospital) it's not going to change. Being completely bored by every waking minute of life is worse than just being treated badly by a guy, because i can get used to being treated badly, but have not been able to get used to the unending boredom of being alone. Anyway, just some insight into why i said "this thread has turned out badly" because now i'm thinking about all that stuff haha

I hear you on this. I am DA and I can relate to this a little bit. I was in a relationship with an AP man and he didn't treat me very well (AP manipulation and degrading outbursts), BUT I often felt that the excitement of the relationship was preferable than dating someone boring. We had that very strong DA/AP dance that kept us strongly connected and looping. I finally extricated myself from the relationship and in true DA style, crawled back into my shell. I don't have the desire to find another at the moment (single life agrees with me in a lot of ways) but it definitely is more boring. I woke up to the fact that if I stayed in the relationship, it would eventually take a toll on my self esteem and that is something that is more important to me than the excitement. You are not alone.

liz
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Posts: 71

What should i do when DA won't message back? Oct 29, 2018 3:26:39 GMT

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Post by liz on Oct 29, 2018 3:26:39 GMT

I understand how you feel as it was very hard to let go of my ex DA as we felt very attracted to each other but could not agree on the huge space that he needs, which is to meet once or twice a month. We just agreed to break up yet again, and this time, I deleted all his contact info, his emails, etc. so I can no longer reach out to him again to casually return to the unsatisfactory state of our relationship.

I have the same problem as you with feeling unattracted by my dates, there are 300+ dating messages I've left unanswered. However, if we keep pining for unavailable crushes we will not give ourselves the remotest chance of finding the right man one day. Even if we were to meet just two new dates a week, in 6 months we would have met 50 men. It is a game of math - the probability increases if we're free and looking, no matter how long it takes. And it is perfectly fine to know that if we were to walk into a party with 300 men, the chances of finding the right one may still be pretty slim, so dating for 2 years or more and not finding the right person isn't a reflection of a dire state. What matters is how we frame it and look at it.

faithopelove
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What should i do when DA won't message back? Oct 29, 2018 6:00:38 GMT via mobile tnr9 likes this

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Post by faithopelove on Oct 29, 2018 6:00:38 GMT

Oct 29, 2018 1:31:23 GMT @mary said:

Oct 27, 2018 22:14:00 GMT beth said:

Thanks for being kind in your reply! Most people just get frustrated at my beliefs and give up. The thing that stands out is where you say "having a partner who doesn't treat you as you deserve to be treated is more painful than creating the life you want on your own" - thats just it - "creating a life that i want on my own" is an oxymoron. I don't want a life on my life. I have tried sooooo many things to find fulfillment on my own (travelling, hobbies, friends, challenges, etc) and i am genuinely bored by life and anything it has to offer. The only time i have any interest in life is when i have a man. And people can criticize that all they want, but after 6 years of constant therapy (including one type where i took 6 months off work to do an intensive workshop group based thing that was half a day, twice a week, facilitated through a private mental health hospital) it's not going to change. Being completely bored by every waking minute of life is worse than just being treated badly by a guy, because i can get used to being treated badly, but have not been able to get used to the unending boredom of being alone. Anyway, just some insight into why i said "this thread has turned out badly" because now i'm thinking about all that stuff haha

I hear you on this. I am DA and I can relate to this a little bit. I was in a relationship with an AP man and he didn't treat me very well (AP manipulation and degrading outbursts), BUT I often felt that the excitement of the relationship was preferable than dating someone boring. We had that very strong DA/AP dance that kept us strongly connected and looping. I finally extricated myself from the relationship and in true DA style, crawled back into my shell. I don't have the desire to find another at the moment (single life agrees with me in a lot of ways) but it definitely is more boring. I woke up to the fact that if I stayed in the relationship, it would eventually take a toll on my self esteem and that is something that is more important to me than the excitement. You are not alone.

Degrading outbursts?? Ugh...so embarrassing and eye opening to think how I must’ve sounded and occasionally still do sound to my ex when I’m acting from an anxious place and my feelings are hijacked. I MUST stop doing that. Forever. I’m glad you posted that. I need fresh reminders and outside perspectives since my ex DA shuts down at that point and I must guess what he’s thinking. I must stop acting on that impulse or learn to snuff that impulse out at the onset.

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What should i do when DA won't message back? Oct 29, 2018 11:00:27 GMT via mobile

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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 11:00:27 GMT

Oct 27, 2018 0:35:04 GMT beth said:

Oct 26, 2018 21:59:04 GMT faithopelove said:

Hi beth - I agree with Juniper’s post. Not even the President is too busy to reply to a text, in fact he tweets all the time. It literally takes a few seconds to respond- he’s showing you with his actions that you are not a priority. Most likely intentionally showing you so you don’t get the wrong idea.
I also wonder if you’re really ok with this casual dynamic since it bothered you enough to post about it and refer to yourself as drowning?
My last observation is that if this relationship with him has always been this casual, then I doubt he’s deactivating as part of his attachment style. I’m AP and when I see a man casually- my AP ways aren’t an issue. I have no reason to fear abandonment from a person I don’t love- a person who assumes a limited part of my life. I’ve noticed a pattern in me that attachment issues surface and become a hinderace 5-6 months into a serious relationship. Serious meaning I have very deep and raw feelings for this man- he’s become my life, so to speak, we talk about getting married and I love you’s are said etc It’s at that level of attachment that my attachment trauma surfaces and I sabotage myself.
Attachment aside- it seems like this guy only wants casual and is only responding (or not responding) in a way that suits him. That’s my take as an AP...

Also, to give you some perspective of how attachment issues can show up under different circumstances for different people - you said that your AP tendencies don't show up until 5-6 months into a serious relationship - Well my AP tendencies show up after like 2-3 dates with someone i barely know! So there you go, everyone has different levels that will activated their attachment problems!

Mine to Beth with guys I really like.
If I'm into someone it feels like I love them from the get go. Now since I have been learning all I can about attachment theory Those certain guys instantly obviously activate my attachment.
I have never been a grower in relationships, "I wish I could", it's either there or it isn't. If it isn't I know on the first date.
I guess this is the difference between secures and insecures.
Juniper is describing how thru hard work on her part she has become more secure in herself and in doing so has allowed a lovely relationship to grow and now is enjoying all the comfort and support that comes with it.
I am in an insecure relationship with a FA/DA that I am very attached to, the sad thing is is it only an amount of time before the rug is pulled from underneath me and I am left broken hearted again.
I want long term with security but I just don't seem to be able to give the secures ago, they don't get past date three. I don't know what the future hold, but after all I've read on insecure relationships doesn't bode well and that even makes my heart hurt writing it, I already can't bare the thought of him not in my life and he hasn't even gone yet. It sucks it really does 😥😥.
How are you today Beth, I hope your ok lots of love X

beth
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What should i do when DA won't message back? Oct 29, 2018 11:26:19 GMT

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Post by beth on Oct 29, 2018 11:26:19 GMT

Oct 28, 2018 3:00:56 GMT alexandra said:

beth , I know how you feel and spent a long time feeling that way myself. My friends, and even strangers, could not figure out why I had the worst "luck" with dating. Why I always ended up with jerks or non-committal guys. They said I wasn't doing anything wrong (and they still believe this) and I have a lot to offer. It made no sense to anyone, as I watched them pair off and find decent partners to marry. A couple of them also had unstable relationships (one in particular, who is similar to me -- lovely person, nothing "wrong" with her, has dated awful people, desperately doesn't want to end up alone, doesn't understand what's going on, in the same boat as us about wanting a family and running out of time). Eventually, I figured out I was AP. Once I actually understood what that meant and could recognize the behaviors (not just in myself but in other people as well), I asked her to take an attachment style assessment, and she's AP as well.