liz
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by liz on Oct 29, 2018 12:36:46 GMT
I think like juniper, I'm going to bowl out form this thread. It is described clearly in attachment books that the older one gets, the fewer % of secures and the higher % of avoidants are to be found in the dating pool. Secures find each other quickly and stay married. And that's just one aspect out of many other deal breakers, eg. physical attraction, personalities, interests. The math is real. I wasted too much time on unsuitable men because I didn't heed the red flags of attachment theory, one of which is the risk of dating avoidants. Relationships with them simply end unhappily, because one is counting on the other party to do the work they may not want to do. I'm not an AP, thus I'm moving on and not pining for the impossible.
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hannah
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by hannah on Oct 29, 2018 13:40:45 GMT
Finding a secure partner is not the only way to earn secure attachment and as liz just said, "the older one gets, the fewer % of secures and the higher % of avoidants are to be found in the dating pool" so better not count on that.
If lots of men you dated settled down with their next girlfriend maybe you should look to your own unavailability and try to heal your wounds...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 13:48:25 GMT
compatibility does come down to more than attachment style, also.
i've seen quite a few self-proclaimed secures with such toxic attitudes i'd never consider dating them.
life, i think, tends to meet you where you're at. when you're ready to transform the issues inherent in your self then the partner best suited for you at that time will be there.
if it's a partner that shatters your illusions, there is growth in that.
if it's a partner that challenges your defenses, good.
if it's a partner than can meet you mutually because you have the capacity to give and receive healthy love and support, wonderful- you'll still be challenged to grow.
it's all a life long process, for the insecurely attached and the securely attached, to realize our full potential.
don't give up! keep going. Big hugs to OP for sticking with this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 14:41:52 GMT
Mine to Beth with guys I really like. If I'm into someone it feels like I love them from the get go. Now since I have been learning all I can about attachment theory Those certain guys instantly obviously activate my attachment. I have never been a grower in relationships, "I wish I could", it's either there or it isn't. If it isn't I know on the first date. I guess this is the difference between secures and insecures. Juniper is describing how thru hard work on her part she has become more secure in herself and in doing so has allowed a lovely relationship to grow and now is enjoying all the comfort and support that comes with it. I am in an insecure relationship with a FA/DA that I am very attached to, the sad thing is is it only an amount of time before the rug is pulled from underneath me and I am left broken hearted again. I want long term with security but I just don't seem to be able to give the secures ago, they don't get past date three. I don't know what the future hold, but after all I've read on insecure relationships doesn't bode well and that even makes my heart hurt writing it, I already can't bare the thought of him not in my life and he hasn't even gone yet. It sucks it really does 😥😥. How are you today Beth, I hope your ok lots of love X Hi helbells - yeah i hear you. Are you talking about the post where juniper described being 'swept off her feet' right after the dissolution of her previous relationship? I hope you are feeling ok too about your situation (well not feeling ok, because impending heart break can't feel ok, but i hope you are finding a way through it). I'm worse today actually as he has finally messaged saying that he wants to meet up on the weekend to break up with me in person. So, yay. Oh dear Beth my heart is hurting for you, you must be feeling so sad and anxious after receiving this text. What are your thoughts since receiving the message? I am not sure how I would react in your shoes. I think I might have very ambivalent feelings ranging from heartbreak to perhaps it's for the best and now I must move on. I sometimes think if I should walk away from my relationship to spare myself any future pain of feeling abandoned again but I just can't, I am deeply attached to this man and things are going good at the moment. I need to keep the focus on me and getting right with me.. This is perhaps the way you might be able to deal with the breakup. Please stay sharing your thoughts and feelings here, you are in a safe place to do it. You will feel supported with love and sometimes tough love on this forum but all for the right reasons. Coming hear and learning and sharing is an absolute god send and I appreciate every contributer on this site. You will be ok Beth in time. Ps going back to what you said about older guys on the dating sites being mainly avoidant. I think they do make up a large percentage, but there are also divorcee's and men who have been widowed who are very genuine in looking for love. Your still very young so please don't give up hope X |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 29, 2018 16:28:06 GMT
compatibility does come down to more than attachment style, also. i've seen quite a few self-proclaimed secures with such toxic attitudes i'd never consider dating them. life, i think, tends to meet you where you're at. when you're ready to transform the issues inherent in your self then the partner best suited for you at that time will be there. if it's a partner that shatters your illusions, there is growth in that. if it's a partner that challenges your defenses, good. if it's a partner than can meet you mutually because you have the capacity to give and receive healthy love and support, wonderful- you'll still be challenged to grow. it's all a life long process, for the insecurely attached and the securely attached, to realize our full potential. don't give up! keep going. Big hugs to OP for sticking with this. ☝️ Keep swimming!! |
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beth
New Member
Posts: 41
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Post by beth on Oct 30, 2018 7:08:45 GMT
Finding a secure partner is not the only way to earn secure attachment and as liz just said, "the older one gets, the fewer % of secures and the higher % of avoidants are to be found in the dating pool" so better not count on that. If lots of men you dated settled down with their next girlfriend maybe you should look to your own unavailability and try to heal your wounds... I have ZERO level of unavailability and find it extremely insulting and angering that anyone suggest i do. I know me, know one else knows me, and i am telling you that i am 100% available and have no hang ups about that whatsoever. I also do not display ANY AP behaviour at all which has taken me many years of working on to get to that place, so you can't assign that either as to why these men dump me. The only thing i do wrong is not treat the guys with cool indifference, causing them to be turned off by not having to 'win' me over. |
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beth
New Member
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Post by beth on Oct 30, 2018 7:10:48 GMT
compatibility does come down to more than attachment style, also. i've seen quite a few self-proclaimed secures with such toxic attitudes i'd never consider dating them. life, i think, tends to meet you where you're at. when you're ready to transform the issues inherent in your self then the partner best suited for you at that time will be there. if it's a partner that shatters your illusions, there is growth in that. if it's a partner that challenges your defenses, good. if it's a partner than can meet you mutually because you have the capacity to give and receive healthy love and support, wonderful- you'll still be challenged to grow. it's all a life long process, for the insecurely attached and the securely attached, to realize our full potential. don't give up! keep going. Big hugs to OP for sticking with this. Thank you Juniper |
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beth
New Member
Posts: 41
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Post by beth on Oct 30, 2018 7:21:31 GMT
Hi helbells - yeah i hear you. Are you talking about the post where juniper described being 'swept off her feet' right after the dissolution of her previous relationship? I hope you are feeling ok too about your situation (well not feeling ok, because impending heart break can't feel ok, but i hope you are finding a way through it). I'm worse today actually as he has finally messaged saying that he wants to meet up on the weekend to break up with me in person. So, yay. Oh dear Beth my heart is hurting for you, you must be feeling so sad and anxious after receiving this text. What are your thoughts since receiving the message? I am not sure how I would react in your shoes. I think I might have very ambivalent feelings ranging from heartbreak to perhaps it's for the best and now I must move on. I sometimes think if I should walk away from my relationship to spare myself any future pain of feeling abandoned again but I just can't, I am deeply attached to this man and things are going good at the moment. I need to keep the focus on me and getting right with me.. This is perhaps the way you might be able to deal with the breakup. Please stay sharing your thoughts and feelings here, you are in a safe place to do it. You will feel supported with love and sometimes tough love on this forum but all for the right reasons. Coming hear and learning and sharing is an absolute god send and I appreciate every contributer on this site. You will be ok Beth in time. Ps going back to what you said about older guys on the dating sites being mainly avoidant. I think they do make up a large percentage, but there are also divorcee's and men who have been widowed who are very genuine in looking for love. Your still very young so please don't give up hope X Thanks Helbells - my thoughts on what is about to happen (although i actually believe very strongly that he will actually cancel the meet up and send me a break up text instead) is that at least i will get to see his beautiful face one last time. And it will be the last time i see him, and hear his voice and i will try to remember all the tiny things about him. I will be ok if i learn to stop hoping for love. I know i said i can't get used to the relentless boredom of life - and i haven't been able to. But i acknowledge that the human brain will get used to anything if you give it long enough, and i have never stayed away from men (post 2012 when i started dating for the first time) for long enough to give my brain a chance at getting used to the boredom. I didn't know what i was missing out on before i started dating, then when i did it was like "wow! this is what it feels like to wake up in the morning and not hate being alive!" It's really hard to go back to accepting emptiness. The happiness is like a drug that you rely on to get through life. But i have to get used to being without it again. I won't date anymore. Whats the point. No matter the age of the man, or their level of 'security'. |
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Post by kibbins on Oct 30, 2018 7:21:50 GMT
If anyone knows anything about men and mother enmeshment, let me know! haha Beth this is something I would like to hear more about. My bf is very attached to his mum, and often tells me how close and how much he loves her. He has fallen out with everyone who has upset his mother. His screen save on his iPad is a photo of his parents. That's all very nice but is it normal for a 44 yr old man. I'm ap but extremely avoidant with my family especially my parents. They always initiate contact.... so know enmeshment on my side, more like the opposite. Let me know if you find any good articles on the subject and I will do the same x this is interesting to me as i am the same way with my parents.. i actually avoid them at all costs even major holidays even though we live in the same city. my ex DA/FA is weirdly close with his mom also. |
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Post by kibbins on Oct 30, 2018 7:24:44 GMT
Mine to Beth with guys I really like. If I'm into someone it feels like I love them from the get go. Now since I have been learning all I can about attachment theory Those certain guys instantly obviously activate my attachment. I have never been a grower in relationships, "I wish I could", it's either there or it isn't. If it isn't I know on the first date. I guess this is the difference between secures and insecures. Juniper is describing how thru hard work on her part she has become more secure in herself and in doing so has allowed a lovely relationship to grow and now is enjoying all the comfort and support that comes with it. I am in an insecure relationship with a FA/DA that I am very attached to, the sad thing is is it only an amount of time before the rug is pulled from underneath me and I am left broken hearted again. I want long term with security but I just don't seem to be able to give the secures ago, they don't get past date three. I don't know what the future hold, but after all I've read on insecure relationships doesn't bode well and that even makes my heart hurt writing it, I already can't bare the thought of him not in my life and he hasn't even gone yet. It sucks it really does 😥😥. How are you today Beth, I hope your ok lots of love X Hi helbells - yeah i hear you. Are you talking about the post where juniper described being 'swept off her feet' right after the dissolution of her previous relationship? I hope you are feeling ok too about your situation (well not feeling ok, because impending heart break can't feel ok, but i hope you are finding a way through it). I'm worse today actually as he has finally messaged saying that he wants to meet up on the weekend to break up with me in person. So, yay. i'm sorry to hear this beth. what was your response when he said that?? btw i read this whole thread last night in bed and actually teared up at a couple points. i'm 32 btw.. and i don't think "times up". it really isn't. my parents had me at 39. not that that is something to aspire towards. but i feel like every dating app man i talk to above 30 is looking for a family. its not hopeless. |
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beth
New Member
Posts: 41
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Post by beth on Oct 30, 2018 11:36:53 GMT
Hi helbells - yeah i hear you. Are you talking about the post where juniper described being 'swept off her feet' right after the dissolution of her previous relationship? I hope you are feeling ok too about your situation (well not feeling ok, because impending heart break can't feel ok, but i hope you are finding a way through it). I'm worse today actually as he has finally messaged saying that he wants to meet up on the weekend to break up with me in person. So, yay. i'm sorry to hear this beth. what was your response when he said that?? btw i read this whole thread last night in bed and actually teared up at a couple points. i'm 32 btw.. and i don't think "times up". it really isn't. my parents had me at 39. not that that is something to aspire towards. but i feel like every dating app man i talk to above 30 is looking for a family. its not hopeless. My response was "ah ok, yeah i could probably meet on the weekend. Can't do Sunday". We arranged a time, but like i said before, i fully anticipate him to cancel. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that 99% of men over 30 on a dating app DO NOT actually want to start a family. Even this guy said he wanted that. All DA guys say it at the start. If you are a man over 30yrs old and you actually wanted a family, you would have partnered up and settled down by now. The good guys, the ones who want to be in relationships and can be in relationships are already in relationships. Sorry thats not the optimism you wanted to hear. But i have no room for optimism anymore. |
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beth
New Member
Posts: 41
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Post by beth on Oct 30, 2018 12:01:55 GMT
"... I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that 99% of men over 30 on a dating app DO NOT actually want to start a family..."
"If you are a man over 30yrs old and you actually wanted a family, you would have partnered up and settled down by now. The good guys, the ones who want to be in relationships and can be in relationships are already in relationships"This seems to be very black/white thinking. I do not know which country you are from, but to me this is simply not true in my part of the world. If people have used their time to take a university degree (5-6 years) and then used their time on building a career, then they often become ready for family ect. later in life. I'm from Australia. In this country most people are finished their university studies by their mid 20s. And if you are a mature aged student, having a relationship at the same time as studying is entirely viable. We have a very high minimum wage here so people who are students don't have it is a hard as say in the states. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 14:29:11 GMT
Finding a secure partner is not the only way to earn secure attachment and as liz just said, "the older one gets, the fewer % of secures and the higher % of avoidants are to be found in the dating pool" so better not count on that. If lots of men you dated settled down with their next girlfriend maybe you should look to your own unavailability and try to heal your wounds... I have ZERO level of unavailability and find it extremely insulting and angering that anyone suggest i do. I know me, know one else knows me, and i am telling you that i am 100% available and have no hang ups about that whatsoever. I also do not display ANY AP behaviour at all which has taken me many years of working on to get to that place, so you can't assign that either as to why these men dump me. The only thing i do wrong is not treat the guys with cool indifference, causing them to be turned off by not having to 'win' me over. it just sounds like you are at odds with your own desires sometimes in what you say, which I understand and have been there and still find myself doing that at times... to be emotionally unavailable really isn't meant as an insult. Most people who pick (and stay) with emotionally unavailable men and women operate at a level of emotional unavailability themselves to resonate with their partner, and engage in the unconscious games that are happening to manage the distance and closeness, and to settle for crumbs rather than a loaf of a relationship. If you are AP, when you are activated, you really are emotionally unavailable - I don't think there is any shame in emotional unavailability, except that it has connotations to people who don't take love seriously or that you don't care about other people, but that's not what it really means, there are just negative connotations to the phrase, I think. |
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beth
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Post by beth on Oct 31, 2018 10:17:01 GMT
I have ZERO level of unavailability and find it extremely insulting and angering that anyone suggest i do. I know me, know one else knows me, and i am telling you that i am 100% available and have no hang ups about that whatsoever. I also do not display ANY AP behaviour at all which has taken me many years of working on to get to that place, so you can't assign that either as to why these men dump me. The only thing i do wrong is not treat the guys with cool indifference, causing them to be turned off by not having to 'win' me over. it just sounds like you are at odds with your own desires sometimes in what you say, which I understand and have been there and still find myself doing that at times... to be emotionally unavailable really isn't meant as an insult. Most people who pick (and stay) with emotionally unavailable men and women operate at a level of emotional unavailability themselves to resonate with their partner, and engage in the unconscious games that are happening to manage the distance and closeness, and to settle for crumbs rather than a loaf of a relationship. If you are AP, when you are activated, you really are emotionally unavailable - I don't think there is any shame in emotional unavailability, except that it has connotations to people who don't take love seriously or that you don't care about other people, but that's not what it really means, there are just negative connotations to the phrase, I think. I understand that to be emotionally unavailable is not an insult, and i understand that it was not meant as an insult towards me. What i find insulting is that people assume that settling for crumbs is subconsciously more comfortable for me because subconsciously i have some level of unavailability. THIS IS WRONG. I settled for crumbs and engaged in his 'games' because i already love him. And i hoped that i could provide a steady, secure, reliable person who wan't going to criticise him, or react rashly, or object to his desire for distance but was going to stay calm and accepting, thereby hopefully encouraging him towards more secure feelings for me. And as to why i so quickly fell in love with him in the first place - because APs are desolate in terms of affection, any kind of affection and attention fires up our systems. You have it completely wrong if you believe that when APs become activated they are emotionally unavailable. In fact, if anything, it is the opposite - we become too available, willing to trust completely very quickly and willing to give over all of ourselves. These are not the traits of emotionally unavailability. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 10:35:22 GMT
beth it just sounds like you are at odds with your own desires sometimes in what you say, which I understand and have been there and still find myself doing that at times... to be emotionally unavailable really isn't meant as an insult. Most people who pick (and stay) with emotionally unavailable men and women operate at a level of emotional unavailability themselves to resonate with their partner, and engage in the unconscious games that are happening to manage the distance and closeness, and to settle for crumbs rather than a loaf of a relationship. If you are AP, when you are activated, you really are emotionally unavailable - I don't think there is any shame in emotional unavailability, except that it has connotations to people who don't take love seriously or that you don't care about other people, but that's not what it really means, there are just negative connotations to the phrase, I think. I understand that to be emotionally unavailable is not an insult, and i understand that it was not meant as an insult towards me. What i find insulting is that people assume that settling for crumbs is subconsciously more comfortable for me because subconsciously i have some level of unavailability. THIS IS WRONG. I settled for crumbs and engaged in his 'games' because i already love him. And i hoped that i could provide a steady, secure, reliable person who wan't going to criticise him, or react rashly, or object to his desire for distance but was going to stay calm and accepting, thereby hopefully encouraging him towards more secure feelings for me. And as to why i so quickly fell in love with him in the first place - because APs are desolate in terms of affection, any kind of affection and attention fires up our systems. You have it completely wrong if you believe that when APs become activated they are emotionally unavailable. In fact, if anything, it is the opposite - we become too available, willing to trust completely very quickly and willing to give over all of ourselves. These are not the traits of emotionally unavailability. I disagree with you, I think that hyper-availability is a form of emotional unavailability, and accepting and staying in a relationship that is hardly there and does not meet your needs is makes you unavailable for a relationship with an emotionally available partner. You can't secure-base your way into someone's life in the hopes that they will become your secure base, but I understand your thinking because it's a classic AP move. I have done the "fixer-upper", many times. Your love is not big enough for the two of you to make this whole thing go round, and that is the hole we fall into as APs. Accepting less-than relationships that can only work if we disown our needs or work to change the other person are making us unavailable to the right relationships where we won't need to do that. You are emotionally unavailable if you need to "shave off" and disown parts of yourself in order to fit into a relationship and make it work, when you aren't your genuine self, when you hustle for love and try to become The Best Girlfriend Ever™ in the hopes you can win someone over, how can you be yourself and communicate your true needs and feelings, especially when they are suffocating to him so you have to become some misshapen version of yourself. If you would rather be in this desolate situation than be alone, it is worth having another think about whether that is having emotional availability for your own self. |
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