beth
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Posts: 41
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Post by beth on Oct 31, 2018 13:35:12 GMT
I don't know who will end up reading this, or if anyone really cares, but i wanted to ask people to consider how we speak to each other on this forum.
The last post i made on this forum (which was my first) ended up disintegrating into people saying things like "it's your life" and "you'll find out". How is that an appropriate way to share our experiences with each other?
I was heartbroken and distraught at the time of reading the posts, as the person i had been seeing had broken up with me since the start of the original post.
Can we just remember that when people come here they may be fragile. And even if we are sure we know what's best for them, we have to consider how we communicate it, and when it is appropriate and kind to stop trying to get our out points across.
I don't have the courage to share personal problems on this forum anymore after my one and only experience, which is a real shame because i thought i had found a place kind and understanding.
Thanks
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 13:46:11 GMT
there is much more kindness and understanding that you realize in the advice you have received. think about it, maybe you will feel more inclined to continue participating when you have some rest and maybe recover from the painful feelings you have right now.
you've had a horrible few days. but that's because of the breakdown of your relationship and the hope that has been thwarted.
we couldn't give you the advice that you sought, nobody could. not even a DA.
we gave you the advice that we gave the integrity to give, the things we have learned through our own agony.
it can work for you if you open to it, it really can help you if you can trust a bigger body of experience than just your own understanding. it's meant well but people got hot. it happens. but it's reparable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 13:48:32 GMT
beth this message is aimed at my comments, and I would like to respond to it. I didn't say those comments to be harsh at all - I felt exasperated by the conversation which is why I placed the ball firmly in your court as we were going to have to agree to disagree. I placed the ball in your court by saying well it is your life at the end of the day, and situations do inevitably speak for themselves, because they do, and we don't always want to hear that. I am happy with the way I'm contributing on the forum, but I understand why you feel hurt and it really was not my intention to make you feel bad in yourself - it was actually my intention to communicate to you that I felt like you deserved a consistent and reliable source of love and that the situation didn't sound like that could be possible. I guess that didn't translate over very well, and as you said, it wasn't anyone else's responsibility. In the forum, I've found a lot of value in others breaking down their own defences and fantasy stories by using each other as their mirrors. It's been a really useful thing to battle with my own fantasy thinking when I feel like I can play all the parts in the love story to make sure things go how I needed them to go. I understand and accept that you didn't find what I said helpful. You are just as welcome in this forum as I am, and I am really sorry that you are hurting. Is there anything you like us to do to make this easier for you?
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Post by ocarina on Oct 31, 2018 21:51:02 GMT
Beth
Firstly sorry for your experience - both in real life and on the forums.
I think it is really difficult in this kind of medium to display real empathy simply because of the remote connection and because the medium lends itself to giving advice - and seeking advice. Very often in the early stages of grief really what we need to for our experience to be validated as such and are not in an emotional place for anything but this kind of support. We come from a range of backgrounds and experiences, each of us bringing our own lens of life on the experience and our own stage of growth and experience - there's a tendency to feel "right" which can make another feel wrong. Not purposefully of course but I am sure this comes across together with a kind of invalidation of feelings.
What many of us have experienced is that it is possible to really love fully and truly but to learn that when that love is hurting us, detachment with love is part of the process and may also be a blessing to our partner in allowing them the space to choose to heal if they wish. When a relationship is damaging us, it is almost never loving to remain - the oxygen mask metaphor is relevant here, reach for your own and heal yourself before you can be of service to anyone else.
It is sad to hear of your experience in dating in your 30s - I am older than you and living in the UK but have to say that this is not my experience and I do wonder if in perceiving this lack of suitable partners, you may in some way be making the perception become a reality? I have been working through The Happiness Trap by Russ Harris ( I think you're in Australia so may be familiar with ACT - if not I highly recommend it as a gift to yourself during this difficult time) and it has helped me to realise that my own perceptions have a big impact on my behaviours and my future. This doesn't mean living in denial of reality, it means recognising when perceptions and belief are not serving them well and choosing to let go of them for that reason.
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beth
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Posts: 41
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Post by beth on Nov 1, 2018 1:58:08 GMT
LOL. NONE OF YOU ARE HUMBLE ENOUGH TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR CAUSING HURT TO SOMEONE - WHETHER INTENTIONAL OR NOT. YOU ALL ARE LITERALLY SAYING "SORRY, BUT I WAS JUSTIFIED IN CONTINUING TO BERATE YOU". I DO NOT DISPUTE ANY OF THE EXPERIENCES THAT ANY OF YOU HAVE HAD FOR YOUR OWN SELVES. BUT BE HUMBLE ENOUGH TO STOP PREACHING YOUR OWN BELIEFS WHEN YOU CAN SEE THAT SOMEONE IS NOT OPEN TO IT. WHAT DOES IT ACHIEVE TO CONTINUE TO AGGRAVATE SOMEONE? EVEN IF YOU THINK WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS RIGHT? WHAT DOES IT ACHIEVE TO CONTINUE TO PUSH YOUR OWN BELIEFS AND OWN EXPERIENCES WHEN SOMEONE IS ACTIVELY SAYING "PLEASE STOP SAYING THIS STUFF TO ME"? INCREDIBLE, THAT PEOPLE CAN'T JUST SAY SORRY, THEY HAVE TO INSIST ON SAYING "SORRY YOU WERE HURT, BUT I WAS RIGHT TO SAY WHAT I SAID".
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beth
New Member
Posts: 41
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Post by beth on Nov 1, 2018 2:00:26 GMT
there is much more kindness and understanding that you realize in the advice you have received. think about it, maybe you will feel more inclined to continue participating when you have some rest and maybe recover from the painful feelings you have right now. you've had a horrible few days. but that's because of the breakdown of your relationship and the hope that has been thwarted. we couldn't give you the advice that you sought, nobody could. not even a DA. we gave you the advice that we gave the integrity to give, the things we have learned through our own agony. it can work for you if you open to it, it really can help you if you can trust a bigger body of experience than just your own understanding. it's meant well but people got hot. it happens. but it's reparable. Thank you for your 'advice'. Please stop telling me what you think i should think and feel. I am begging people to stop shoving their opinions ABOUT ME down my throat. It is hurtful.
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beth
New Member
Posts: 41
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Post by beth on Nov 1, 2018 2:01:25 GMT
beth this message is aimed at my comments, and I would like to respond to it. I didn't say those comments to be harsh at all - I felt exasperated by the conversation which is why I placed the ball firmly in your court as we were going to have to agree to disagree. I placed the ball in your court by saying well it is your life at the end of the day, and situations do inevitably speak for themselves, because they do, and we don't always want to hear that. I am happy with the way I'm contributing on the forum, but I understand why you feel hurt and it really was not my intention to make you feel bad in yourself - it was actually my intention to communicate to you that I felt like you deserved a consistent and reliable source of love and that the situation didn't sound like that could be possible. I guess that didn't translate over very well, and as you said, it wasn't anyone else's responsibility. In the forum, I've found a lot of value in others breaking down their own defences and fantasy stories by using each other as their mirrors. It's been a really useful thing to battle with my own fantasy thinking when I feel like I can play all the parts in the love story to make sure things go how I needed them to go. I understand and accept that you didn't find what I said helpful. You are just as welcome in this forum as I am, and I am really sorry that you are hurting. Is there anything you like us to do to make this easier for you? Thank you for your 'advice'. Please stop telling me what you think i should think and feel. I am begging people to stop shoving their opinions ABOUT ME down my throat. It is hurtful.
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beth
New Member
Posts: 41
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Post by beth on Nov 1, 2018 2:01:59 GMT
Beth Firstly sorry for your experience - both in real life and on the forums. I think it is really difficult in this kind of medium to display real empathy simply because of the remote connection and because the medium lends itself to giving advice - and seeking advice. Very often in the early stages of grief really what we need to for our experience to be validated as such and are not in an emotional place for anything but this kind of support. We come from a range of backgrounds and experiences, each of us bringing our own lens of life on the experience and our own stage of growth and experience - there's a tendency to feel "right" which can make another feel wrong. Not purposefully of course but I am sure this comes across together with a kind of invalidation of feelings. What many of us have experienced is that it is possible to really love fully and truly but to learn that when that love is hurting us, detachment with love is part of the process and may also be a blessing to our partner in allowing them the space to choose to heal if they wish. When a relationship is damaging us, it is almost never loving to remain - the oxygen mask metaphor is relevant here, reach for your own and heal yourself before you can be of service to anyone else. It is sad to hear of your experience in dating in your 30s - I am older than you and living in the UK but have to say that this is not my experience and I do wonder if in perceiving this lack of suitable partners, you may in some way be making the perception become a reality? I have been working through The Happiness Trap by Russ Harris ( I think you're in Australia so may be familiar with ACT - if not I highly recommend it as a gift to yourself during this difficult time) and it has helped me to realise that my own perceptions have a big impact on my behaviours and my future. This doesn't mean living in denial of reality, it means recognising when perceptions and belief are not serving them well and choosing to let go of them for that reason. Thank you for your 'advice'. Please stop telling me what you think i should think and feel. I am begging people to stop shoving their opinions ABOUT ME down my throat. It is hurtful.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 2:27:20 GMT
geez oh man beth, you came to an open forum and didn't like what you encountered. your hostility might be a factor in your frustration. there's a block feature to hide content from posters you'd not like to interact with. no one here has to shut up for you. and no one has to interact with you, which may be what you prefer. i won't be interacting with you should you choose to stay. good riddance to you as well!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 2:27:32 GMT
beth , I don't feel it genuine to say sorry for any of what I have said that has felt offensive for you. I don't even feel that what I've said was so far out of line that I should feel guilt, I just don't feel that way. I also don't feel it's a very effective way of asking for that kind of thing from me personally, as it's difficult for me to really hear what you're saying when you demand it with that energy. I'm going to step away from this thread now as I don't feel like it's something I can interact with in the way that it sounds like you want, and I don't want to be combative - we want to be accommodating in this forum and we are here to grow our awareness and use each other as mirrors and support each other in this. I do hope you decide to stick around in the forum, and I hope you do decide to post again in future, and I hope you see that we are all working this stuff out just the same as you, but that there is a great body of wisdom to draw from in the experience of each other, and this is one of the rare places we get to do that with other self aware people who might be totally different from us - it's such a rich thing. I know you feel hurt by your experience here in the forum, and although I don't feel the accountability you may think I should for the feelings you've felt about what I've said, I can acknowledge that I gave you unsolicited feedback and it won't happen again. As I say, hopefully you decide to stick around in the forum, but that is ultimately your choice. It's absolutely crushing to be broken hearted by the person you invested your best self into - so many of us here know that feeling, and maybe that's why we felt the need to say what we did, as a way of saving one other person from feeling pain we've also endured. You're in a place with other people who know what that crushing grief is like.
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 1, 2018 2:32:03 GMT
I don't know who will end up reading this, or if anyone really cares, but i wanted to ask people to consider how we speak to each other on this forum. The last post i made on this forum (which was my first) ended up disintegrating into people saying things like "it's your life" and "you'll find out". How is that an appropriate way to share our experiences with each other? I was heartbroken and distraught at the time of reading the posts, as the person i had been seeing had broken up with me since the start of the original post. Can we just remember that when people come here they may be fragile. And even if we are sure we know what's best for them, we have to consider how we communicate it, and when it is appropriate and kind to stop trying to get our out points across. I don't have the courage to share personal problems on this forum anymore after my one and only experience, which is a real shame because i thought i had found a place kind and understanding. Thanks Beth- different opinions may be hard to hear but even when I don’t agree with them, it can be eye opening to hear another’s perspective. I still want to be with an ex DA that everyone on this board would probably tell me to walk away from...that’s ok. I still don’t want anyone else. I hear their opinions, appreciate the feedback and then do what I’m ready to do at this point of my life. The board is useful to me- I’ve learned a lot of valuable insight on this board and the different opinions are probably what’s carrying the learning.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 2:43:59 GMT
I think it's worth making it clear that this forum is not really a "safe space". It is supportive but it can feel provocative if you aren't used to being challenged, but I feel that that's what gives us all a growing edge. From what I've seen here, intention matters more than if you accidentally trigger somebody - I feel like we are all responsible adults who can be accountable for our own triggers and I probably wouldn't come to this forum if we had to police our language and our feedback to the degree we would need to make it a safe space where nobody's feelings can be hurt by the feedback given. If the intention is good, I feel like that counts for something. I don't believe anyone has been so careless and heartless to you that I feel that they should feel responsible for your emotions right now.
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Post by cris88 on Nov 1, 2018 3:08:07 GMT
Everything that was said by everyone here was respectful. How is anyone supposed to know what you want to hear? If you read through the forum you'll find out the way to help is to be realistic and talking straight, not sugar-coating reality.
Everyone here has been hurting, had bad experiences and more, but they are humble enough to read the advise with an open heart and mind, it's not been pretty. So, I hope you have a nice journey towards your own healing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 3:20:02 GMT
Everything that was said by everyone here was respectful. How is anyone supposed to know what you want to hear? If you read through the forum you'll find out the way to help is to be realistic and talking straight, not sugar-coating reality. Everyone here has been hurting, had bad experiences and more, but they are humble enough to read the advise with an open heart and mind, it's not been pretty. So, I hope you have a nice journey towards your own healing. to me, it's another case of learning to read the room before one goes acting out. any time spent reading on this forum will reveal that the general tone of feedback overall, is to work in your own attachment issues and not try to manipulate your way into a relationship with someone who isn't interested. it's the basic message- heal your own issues. that's what most people here are doing , and many who come here without that insight quickly open to it and are thankful. not the case here, which is just fine. people come and go, it's an internet forum and it's pretty par for the course for people to take what they want and leave the rest.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 3:28:12 GMT
Everything that was said by everyone here was respectful. How is anyone supposed to know what you want to hear? If you read through the forum you'll find out the way to help is to be realistic and talking straight, not sugar-coating reality. Everyone here has been hurting, had bad experiences and more, but they are humble enough to read the advise with an open heart and mind, it's not been pretty. So, I hope you have a nice journey towards your own healing. to me, it's another case of learning to read the room before one goes acting out. any time spent reading on this forum will reveal that the general tone of feedback overall, is to work in your own attachment issues and not try to manipulate your way into a relationship with someone who isn't interested. it's the basic message- heal your own issues. that's what most people here are doing , and many who come here without that insight quickly open to it and are thankful. not the case here, which is just fine. people come and go, it's an internet forum and it's pretty par for the course for people to take what they want and leave the rest. I found this forum spending months trying to hack into the mind of yet another poor avoidant who clearly just wasn't that into me or the relationship... I dread to think of the accumulated time I have spent trying to understand other people in order to become what they want. It's so sad to treat yourself in that way, to treat yourself as if you have no self. I am so grateful every day since I started lurking here - you guys really put my priorities straight and saved me so much god damn time in trying to understand someone else more than I understand my own self. I'm not sure what I'm saying - I guess I'm just saying, I am so glad for the tough love in this group, it really is what a hard-leaning AP needs when lost in the fantasy. It's like having your own course correctors!
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