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Post by 8675309 on Nov 1, 2018 11:25:24 GMT
Not avoidant but been in these shoes... Just want to note none of us are 100% secure. Im pretty darn secure and a DA triggered my tiny anxious side. I tested heavy secure a bit DA and 2% anxious. Triggered! haha My guy has been very hard to let go of even though I can find someone open emotionally. It happens to any of us... A person/behavior may trigger any of us at any time. We are just human. I had the same thing with a DA(I think hes a bit FA too) and his in/out this past year and I had to cut it off. Told him not to contact me again unless he willing to try and work on his behavior. He has to want to do it for himself, I can’t make him but he knows now, he wants it he has to do the work. Do I expect him to change over night, Heck no but, I expect some effort put fourth to get there if he Really wanted it to work with us. We are in no contact and it will stay that way until he wants to make the change. I will never reach out to him again. Sure not talking about them can trigger them but you cant walk on eggshells and tiptoe everything just because it may trigger them. Its not fair to you to accommodate them like that holding yourself back wanting healthy things. Say what you need and own it. When I did talk to mine about feelings or the like I did it in person. If I said anything via text he dismissed it and ignored it. Learned that lesson with him! haha. I talked when were were relaxed/happy place and asked if we could talk first before I blurted anything out. I took this approach with anyone, feelings can be a bit tricky so I want to come from a calm place not attack mode. I talked calm and casual, I didnt place blame but did say how things made me feel. He was still triggered by this. There are avoidants here actively working on themselves so they will chime in.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 13:00:56 GMT
my perspective is that a DA's internal process is nobody's business to orchestrate or influence without the express request by the DA- and this is true of anyone.
it's deep work that requires delving into original pain and working to rewire the nervous system out of coping mechanisms that developed through early childhood abuse and neglect.
this deep work is not to be undertaken simply to be the partner you want him to be. it's his own journey, and will be ready if and when he's ready.
my journey has been long and intense. very difficult. and yes the information tends to be negative because it seems in large part to be written by AP's and dissatisfied partners with an agenda that's been thwarted by a DA's inability to meet their 'needs'.
If a partner does not have the capacity to meet your needs and satisfy you in a relationship it is not your business or right to impose an adjustment agenda. it is your business and your right to let go of said partner, recognizing their autonomy to live their life according to their own priorities and agenda for themselves.
If they are able, ready, and willing to begin the deep work that's commendable. If they aren't, there's no shame, or obligation. they probably aren't holding any hostages, unless a partner is hostage to their own desires and narrative of how it should be for both partners instead of seeing it as it is, and accepting it.
this is not for the faint of heart and it's not about you. I can't emphasize enough, how difficult and confusing this path has been and i never would have done it for a partner.
i did it because of pain in my own life that i wanted to understand and heal, that over time i was able to access by having loving interactions with people WHO DIDNT WANT ANYTHING FROM ME!!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 14:22:14 GMT
Most of the literature out there, I find to be crap. A lot is written from the AP perspective and who have been hurt by an avoidant. They don't understand the inner workings, they only understand that they have been hurt. It's just not helpful to an avoidant who wants to do the inner work. The only thing that has helped me is coming to the realization that I want to make my life better. There is no literature or person on this planet, in my opinion, that will make someone want to do the work. I'll be honest, being unaware is easier!! I think being an unaware DA is easier than being an unaware AP. I don't have the pain and turmoil, so it's harder to recognize that something needs to be changed. APs I think seek therapy because they are in pain. This is not the case for many DAs. I think we only see the pain if we become more aware. For me, awareness is more painful, BUT I know the path will lead me somewhere eventually.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 14:33:06 GMT
Hello, Juniper. You've dedicated a lot of your reply to expressing dismissive and untrusting attitudes towards my desire for a connection with my boyfriend. You know nothing of my relationship or my agenda. If we're unable to satisfy each other's needs, my boyfriend and I will decide on our own to go our separate ways or not. There's never been two people in any relationship who didn't want anything from each other. That notion is unrealistic. Please elaborate on the question asked if you're still inclined to. you wanted to know my path, i shared it. sorry you didn't like what i wrote, i've got nothing further but wish you the best of luck.
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Post by abeanjustabean on Nov 1, 2018 14:52:12 GMT
you wanted to know my path, i shared it. sorry you didn't like what i wrote, i've got nothing further but wish you the best of luck. It was 6 paragraphs of "He's not changing for you, if you don't like him, leave him" - which I never asked about - and a couple of sentences including a full caps sentence of "your experience"
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 14:55:47 GMT
you wanted to know my path, i shared it. sorry you didn't like what i wrote, i've got nothing further but wish you the best of luck. It was 6 paragraphs of "He's not changing for you, if you don't like him, leave him" - which I never asked about - and a couple of sentences including a full caps sentence of "your experience" we don't have a censor for our posting or input. take it or leave it, i'd write the same again even with your reprimand. welcome to the internet forum? hope you find what you're looking for perhaps from another DA. it could happen, perhaps.
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Post by abeanjustabean on Nov 1, 2018 15:01:48 GMT
Thanks for your well wishes, Juniper. I wish you godspeed on the path before you.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 15:05:55 GMT
Thanks for your well wishes, Juniper. I wish you godpeed on the path before you. . thank you so much , and likewise. i'm embarking on what has been , to date, the most enjoyable, genuine, mutually supportive and not to mention very comedically satisfying intimate relationship with a secure/Ap. it's been a long road and i've got myself figured out a little better than anyone else by now. sorry i couldn't be helpful to you, but my feedback is 1000% sincere and not ill intentioned. it is what it is. best to you!
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Post by epicgum on Nov 1, 2018 15:26:27 GMT
I think I should make my intentions with this thread more clear: I don't wish to manipulate my boyfriend into changing for me. I believe whether I'm there or not, he's already on his own path secure attachment. I think there's a lot of guilt inside of him because most of the literature is very judgemental towards DA's. A lot of it says you are bad and wrong and anyone who encounters you is better off leaving you. That comes out a lot in his own attitude towards himself and as someone who cares about him, obviously I don't like it. I would like some human and hopeful accounts about what his future could look like. And a direction for us to look to see that future. Yeah, its shitty and it turned me off of attachment theory the first time I encountered it because it basically said "you are fucked up and toxic, everyone should run away from you."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 15:50:51 GMT
I think I should make my intentions with this thread more clear: I don't wish to manipulate my boyfriend into changing for me. I believe whether I'm there or not, he's already on his own path secure attachment. I think there's a lot of guilt inside of him because most of the literature is very judgemental towards DA's. A lot of it says you are bad and wrong and anyone who encounters you is better off leaving you. That comes out a lot in his own attitude towards himself and as someone who cares about him, obviously I don't like it. I would like some human and hopeful accounts about what his future could look like. And a direction for us to look to see that future. maybe you could direct him to this forum, i would have his back for sure.
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Post by goldilocks on Nov 1, 2018 18:50:49 GMT
I have written several posts on the subject. If your boyfriend has set a goal to earn secure attachment and looking for some examples of the healing process, most of my life story is in the DA support forum and as a DA, he is free and welcome to work with us there.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 19:04:21 GMT
I have written several posts on the subject. If your boyfriend has set a goal to earn secure attachment and looking for some examples of the healing process, most of my life story is in the DA support forum and as a DA, he is free and welcome to work with us there. yep, there's a bunch on input from our processes and a good place to start would be to read what we have written over time. it's a lot to ask to lay it out in a single post when this has been months and months of deep work, only some of which is included here.
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lilos
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Post by lilos on Nov 1, 2018 19:26:43 GMT
Most of the literature out there, I find to be crap. A lot is written from the AP perspective and who have been hurt by an avoidant. They don't understand the inner workings, they only understand that they have been hurt. It's just not helpful to an avoidant who wants to do the inner work. The only thing that has helped me is coming to the realization that I want to make my life better. There is no literature or person on this planet, in my opinion, that will make someone want to do the work. I'll be honest, being unaware is easier!! I think being an unaware DA is easier than being an unaware AP. I don't have the pain and turmoil, so it's harder to recognize that something needs to be changed. APs I think seek therapy because they are in pain. This is not the case for many DAs. I think we only see the pain if we become more aware. For me, awareness is more painful, BUT I know the path will lead me somewhere eventually. I don’t know where I sit on the spectrum of attachment anymore since I seem to swing to all sides depending on who I’m with or how I feel at the moment! But- i agree when I read “attached” one thing that jumped out to me was that APs just needed to find the right person while DA needed help. That’s rediculous to me. When I think of my ex DA I think his ways are not bad they are different from my AP response to him. His defense mechanisms are different but certainly not worse than mine. And I most certainly needed to make adjustments to me. Because I found a secure partner and our relationship has been long lasting and loving. However, my insecurities are not gone and my defense mechanism are still there and I still take them out on those around me. A secure partner didn’t fix me. I still need to do the work. And to comment on what Mary said about being aware being harder- I couldn’t agree more. Nearly every day I want to go back to the ignorance and autopilot life I was living. I was happy. I have a great life. And it was easy. But I was also full of anxiety and stress and trying to hold it all together but I accepted that as normal. all it took was one mistake to break me and I realized I had absolutely no healthy way to deal with it. When I looked at my life and what I was doing to other people- forget myself I was just fine- but I hurt people I cared about and I was certain this was affecting my kids. I wasn’t sure how at the time but I knew it had to be. Once I became aware of it I couldn’t help but see it everywhere. And then I saw how ultimately I was creating my own suffering by living that way. I needed to find a new way to relate to myself and the world. I guess what I am saying is: when what you are doing works for you- you won’t change it. Once i realized somethings wrong, I could have either kept looking for it to be someone else’s problem or I could accept that it might actually be me that needs to work on something. I choose the latter and it has completely changed how I view everything in my life.
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Post by cris88 on Nov 1, 2018 19:47:53 GMT
I think I should make my intentions with this thread more clear: I don't wish to manipulate my boyfriend into changing for me. I believe whether I'm there or not, he's already on his own path secure attachment. I think there's a lot of guilt inside of him because most of the literature is very judgemental towards DA's. A lot of it says you are bad and wrong and anyone who encounters you is better off leaving you. That comes out a lot in his own attitude towards himself and as someone who cares about him, obviously I don't like it. I would like some human and hopeful accounts about what his future could look like. And a direction for us to look to see that future. Yeah, its shitty and it turned me off of attachment theory the first time I encountered it because it basically said "you are fucked up and toxic, everyone should run away from you." Well just as AP, the DA behaviour is toxic. Not everyone is the same and some may have more healthy boundaries, but still the push & pull, the keeping you close and one day wanting to work on the relationship and the next being awful to you, the sending cryptic messages to tell you they want to be with you. It's tricky and saying NO should be more than enough. But they feed the illusion and the maddening experience. Yes, the AP should say no but it's not as easy when you are feeling close to that person. Is not always an agenda. Is not being able to read the message clearly because it's ambivalent. So no offense to the ones who are DA but there's no one to blame here. If someone doesn't want to be in a relationship there's a very clear way of stating that. So yes, there's a reason why a lot of that literature point towards the pain caused. It doesn't matter how secure you are.
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Post by epicgum on Nov 1, 2018 20:02:36 GMT
Yeah, its shitty and it turned me off of attachment theory the first time I encountered it because it basically said "you are fucked up and toxic, everyone should run away from you." Well just as AP, the DA behaviour is toxic. Not everyone is the same and some may have more healthy boundaries, but still the push & pull, the keeping you close and one day wanting to work on the relationship and the next being awful to you, the sending cryptic messages to tell you they want to be with you. It's tricky and saying NO should be more than enough. But they feed the illusion and the maddening experience. Yes, the AP should say no but it's not as easy when you are feeling close to that person. Is not always an agenda. Is not being able to read the message clearly because it's ambivalent. So no offense to the ones who are DA but there's no one to blame here. If someone doesn't want to be in a relationship there's a very clear way of stating that. So yes, there's a reason why a lot of that literature point towards the pain caused. It doesn't matter how secure you are. Well I'm FA, not DA first off, just in case that causes an issue. Secondly, this is all an unconscious process for the most part, it is a painful and confusing experience. And plenty of the instability is caused by the AP side as well. Thirdly, look, telling people they are irredeemably toxic and not giving them any answers (as the first half of the attached book does and most relationship sites on the web, baggage reclaim etc.) just tells people to settle into their dysfunction, why bother trying to change if it's not possible?
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