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Post by Rookie on Nov 4, 2018 16:27:07 GMT
Oh Juniper, all your posts have been so crucial in understanding me better. When I read the book Attached and shared it with my ex, it was from such a high horse that my needs are valid and you need to stop making me invalidated. But after being on this forum for 10 months my perspective has changed so much. Thank you for saying it's not all on me, I need to hear and say it to myself again and again. I still don't know where my AP behavior stems from. I've been lucky to have a stable home with loving parents. But I guess in my head I wasn't understood in my house how I would like to have been, I peeked closeness but avoided any attempts when they tried because they wouldn't understand me. I created this fantasy that my partner would be the one who wholly 'gets me'. And every relationship I have been in (all secures only this ex is a DA), that has been the key ingredient. I've been a different person with each one of them but with this ex I think the real me was completely accepted and also kinda shone through. I know why there is a wound, but again, is it self inflicted? Big hug to you too. I'm not in therapy, but your posts have been my guidance <3 hi Ruki, i'm off to my day but saw your post and wanted to pop in real quick to encourage you. i can't lift the burden of AP self-blame off you, but i'm glad you're questioning it! it's absolutely not all down to you. no way!!! You have hurts that you're looking to have soothed by someone unable to love you the way you deserve to be loved. it's that simple, to me. NO BLAME. It's all just brokenness between two wounded partners- the blind leading the blind, nobody has their bearings or a good compass. people are lost and hurting. that's all. your unhealthy behaviors are coping mechanisms you developed when you were young. they stayed in place, they do for all of us, until we reach the point in life where we can understand and care about how to adjust and learn new ways of loving ourselves and others. the beautiful thing is, there is hope, healing is possible. there are so many AP and FA and a small sprinkling of DA here who are living examples of it. we've all banded together to help support each other, and the power of that is evidenced daily on these boards. so, anyway- i have to run but i wasn't going to leave this without a hug. (((((ruki))))) |
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Post by Rookie on Nov 4, 2018 16:28:09 GMT
Whenever you have the time, and if it's a process that can be worded, would love to know more. Shame is the enemy. when it appears see it as such. set yourself against it, don't lay down for it. you'll learn how over time. but don't forget, shame exudes from the wound and it's toxic and Does. Not. Belong. To. You. don't harbor it. it has to go. that's a process. but know who your enemy is. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 16:35:18 GMT
Whenever you have the time, and if it's a process that can be worded, would love to know more. Shame is the enemy. when it appears see it as such. set yourself against it, don't lay down for it. you'll learn how over time. but don't forget, shame exudes from the wound and it's toxic and Does. Not. Belong. To. You. don't harbor it. it has to go. that's a process. but know who your enemy is. well, if you read about it, educate yourself about shame, and what it looks, feels, tastes, smells, and sounds like, you can learn to distinguish it from conviction or awareness. it has a certain feel, and cannot inspire you, it only can fill you with despair. the process of defeating it begins with being able to identify it, and then you have to counter it with compassion for yourself. again, read about compassion, what it feels, looks, smells, tastes and sounds like. and invite it in continuously. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 16:42:40 GMT
also, practice talking to yourself like someone you love very very much.
talk to yourself like you would talk to someone you see as so good, so precious, so in need of some encouragement and understanding.
that's a great way to begin to love yourself, with your words.
have an intention to care and understandnand heal yourself.
that intention itself will begin to have a life of its own and will begin to inform your perspective.
you just have to practice it, like anything you want to develop or get better at.
and believe that you can do this, self- love is a skill.
you can get good at it.
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lilos
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Post by lilos on Nov 4, 2018 17:23:44 GMT
Oh Juniper, all your posts have been so crucial in understanding me better. When I read the book Attached and shared it with my ex, it was from such a high horse that my needs are valid and you need to stop making me invalidated. But after being on this forum for 10 months my perspective has changed so much. Thank you for saying it's not all on me, I need to hear and say it to myself again and again. I still don't know where my AP behavior stems from. I've been lucky to have a stable home with loving parents. But I guess in my head I wasn't understood in my house how I would like to have been, I peeked closeness but avoided any attempts when they tried because they wouldn't understand me. I created this fantasy that my partner would be the one who wholly 'gets me'. And every relationship I have been in (all secures only this ex is a DA), that has been the key ingredient. I've been a different person with each one of them but with this ex I think the real me was completely accepted and also kinda shone through. I know why there is a wound, but again, is it self inflicted? Big hug to you too. I'm not in therapy, but your posts have been my guidance <3 hi Ruki, i'm off to my day but saw your post and wanted to pop in real quick to encourage you. i can't lift the burden of AP self-blame off you, but i'm glad you're questioning it! it's absolutely not all down to you. no way!!! You have hurts that you're looking to have soothed by someone unable to love you the way you deserve to be loved. it's that simple, to me. NO BLAME. It's all just brokenness between two wounded partners- the blind leading the blind, nobody has their bearings or a good compass. people are lost and hurting. that's all. your unhealthy behaviors are coping mechanisms you developed when you were young. they stayed in place, they do for all of us, until we reach the point in life where we can understand and care about how to adjust and learn new ways of loving ourselves and others. the beautiful thing is, there is hope, healing is possible. there are so many AP and FA and a small sprinkling of DA here who are living examples of it. we've all banded together to help support each other, and the power of that is evidenced daily on these boards. so, anyway- i have to run but i wasn't going to leave this without a hug. (((((ruki))))) I am in no way saying this is you- but I also didn’t understand because I had a stable home and loving parents. And then I looked closer. Not that my parents don’t love me- but what I viewed as stable and loving was only that because it’s all I knew. My therapist says that’s happens a lot where just because it’s normal to you doesn’t mean it’s healthy. I love my parents- they did the best they could with what they had at the time. But it caused some real problems for me and it’s important for me to see that objectively as I start to unlearn and reteach myself as well as to teach my children so I don’t continue to pass the dynamic along. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 19:06:27 GMT
I think the TED-talk has a twisted logic... The moment you stand by the traits and actions that would be perceived as flaws by other people or society you are being courageous and your vulnerabilities stop becoming vulnerabilities. Shame always comes from a lack of choice - you are defenceless of your own instincts and needs and by admitting to your faults you take back control. It very much comes down to being assertive in our hierarchical human race. Building up self-confidence and trusting yourself while maintaining self-reflection is the true task to accomplish. No side should take over-hand..achieving an equilibrium is hard.
Dating a DA your own perception of what a normal relationship constitutes of gets turned upside down. I would advise you to seek out relationships in your life (friends, family) which you aspire to. Be wise to choose the mirror in which you want to reflect your own actions.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 19:23:25 GMT
.. and if this is of any consolation to you: if he is aware of his inner conflict he is probably just as ashamed about himself as you are. Having an insecure attachment you don't have the freedom of choice. And if he's gone completely avoidant he lacks reflection. Norms are there for a reason, they provide security, they allow two people to connect without extensively talking about individual needs.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 20:00:50 GMT
Ruki,
i hope you will soon be unburdened by the idea that you have caused all of your difficulty, and are to blame for it.
the natural reality is, that none of us exist in a vacuum, and there are many many causes and conditions that influence our wellness, happiness, and capacity for peace.
Our families of origin, our genetics, our temperaments, our conditioning by our early and even later environments.
Our pain is human pain, and we all suffer.
However, another natural truth is that we all have within us the capacity to look into it, and to understand it, and transform it. that's a strength in the human makeup. we get to create something new when we see it's needed.
I hope you can begin to trust and relax a little bit, to take it easy in your self-assessment, and have some grace for yourself.
you're going to be ok, this is the start of a new thing for you and it's unfamiliar and perhaps scary but that is true of many wonderful things.
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 4, 2018 22:00:40 GMT
Hi lilos- are those TED talks found on YouTube? I don’t know if that link will work. If not you can google it. She really gives some amazing perspective. Thank you, lilos!! 💗 |
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 4, 2018 22:27:14 GMT
Reading these threads has been therapeutic and really valuable for me to understand my AP behaviors and really look at self and what my participation in this AP/DA dance is, and even with all that self awareness, the hope that every interaction with my DA will be different is crazy talk and I can't get myself out of it. So my story goes like this - Was in a long distance relationship with the DA till mid Feb this year, and he said that he can't do a relationship in person when I'm back and we broke up. My AP activation was at it's peak with calls and texts when my ex DA (rightly so) decided that he needs to go NC and cut me off completely. In hindsight I needed him to do that for me because I couldn't get my emotions under control. I started letting go of my obsessive thoughts little by little and I began my healing journey or so I thought. I returned back to my country in August and we both met the very next day, where he stated that he's moved on from wanting a relationship but would like to stay friends. I said that seeing him did bring back some feelings, so maybe that's not the best idea. Later that month we found ourselves out for work in a different city one day and met for a drink and things got intimate. That's where all the 'healing' I thought I'd done came crashing down. Even though we decided it was just sex, every time we got intimate after that, I saw myself repeating a pattern where I would exaggerate some situation to keep the closeness going which he didn't want to, so I would spend the whole week triggered, then we would meet over the weekend, get intimate, I would get my reinforcement and be calm for a few days and repeat.Even though he said it was just sex, I would get texts like I have nobody to talk to, am I always going to be alone. Or I know we shouldn't talk, but I think about you(all of the vulnerability only showed up when he was drinking) and these thoughts/texts actions disappear when he is sober. Cut to last time before we got intimate, we decided to have a conversation and I told him that his withdrawal the next day and for days to follow, really triggers me and I don't know what to do. He replied that he likes me and there is something he feels but he can't be in a relationship. All my brain heard is 'he likes me'... and back to it we were. Yesterday while responding to his withdrawal and me wanting closeness, a yelling match ensued where he yelled that he wants me to understand that' he doesn't like me, he doesn't care for me and he never wishes to see me again.' Hearing this out loud caused a different kind of pain and I feel like I've gone back to the first day of the real breakup. I'm stuck in the cycle of beating myself up, thinking it's all my fault that this is happening all over again. Guess I'm looking to hear that I didn't do this to myself and he was as responsible for this toxicity. Looking for any kind of perspective or insight that will make me really start healing or looking at myself in a way I don't know how. If none of this makes sense, it's because its all blurry midst the tears. Healing hugs to all. Hi Ruki- I just want to encourage that I feel your pain and you’re not alone. My DA boyfriend broke up with me last November and I’ve been studying attachment ever since...I just had to make sense of our relationship coming to an end when we both admitted it was the closest connection we felt with anyone- and for him the first time in his life he opened his heart up to anyone. I constantly question myself and my motives, and in the past year have gained a lot of emotional self-control and some security over the AP doubts. It’s hard not to be triggered- we’ve been seeing each other casually since 6 weeks after our break. I had no idea a year ago as to the layers of his fears and distrust, as I also had no idea about my fears and insecurities. I want to assure you this is a two partner dance and this push/pull dynamic couldn’t possibly exist without two people participating. My ex partner and I still participate in it as neither one of us has completely let go. I’m taking everything day by day at this point with no future plans. I’m daily working on my growth and healing, while maintaining distant contact with my ex...which of course isn’t easy but better than the alternative to me. We drank together at a meet up with my ex early July and we had a terrible blow up. We both stated our truth and in the end I left his place feeling embarrassed, ashamed and an array of other emotions. Regret probably being at the top. AP ruminations were fully activated. He wouldn’t respond to my texts for about 5 days, and then we got back in contact again...and nothing really got resolved but I can tell you the “blow up” blew over. I just want to remind you that time has a way of diminishing those blow ups...although the two way dance remains. I would recommend that your focus should be on self-love and acceptance. Above all else, love yourself. 💗 I’m here for you....((hugs)) |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 16:41:15 GMT
I write clearly about the dynamic only because of this forum and reading posts that have made me realize my part in dysfunction. Hearing my attachment figure tell me that he doesn't care for me was very very very triggering and something I couldn't control, even after trying to meditate and I went full blown AP on him with texts and unanswered calls asking for forgiveness for wanting closeness. He didn't respond to anything an blocked me everywhere. Exactly what happened when we broke up. I couldn't respect the boundaries that he put in place, but I think (I don't know) that he's coming from a place where he wants me to believe it's all my fault when it really isn't. According to him the fact that he clearly stated that he doesn't want a relationship but still sent mixed signals gets him off the hook. And I believe that, which I think is unfair.I want to try and be compassionate to myself and stop drowning in shame and guilt. I have recently been on the other side of this. I owned my part in the dance and did not think that I was blameless in what happened between us, but I did have to stop responding to him for both of us. He did the same with the emails and texts asking for forgiveness and trying to hold on. At first, I gave mixed signals too because I wanted to hope and believe that it could be fixed. In the end, I could see that he wasn't stuck on me as he told me, he was stuck on regret and shame. In my opinion, he felt stuck on the regret and getting me back would have fixed that feeling for him. Cutting contact may seem cruel, but I felt it was the best for both of us and it had no cruel intentions. I had to end the dance. |
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Post by Rookie on Nov 11, 2018 9:40:50 GMT
Thank you everyone for your responses and encouragement! It hasn't been easy to get my head out of the fishbowl.I'm very much still stuck with ruminations and the thought that now my ex hates me then I remind myself that he won't spend his energy on feeling any emotion for me and then I get sadder than where I started. This weekend I had a run in with him at a common friends house and he spoke to me like the last conversation didn't happen. I tried really hard to not analyze his friendly behavior but could only get by a day before I reached out to him for an explanation. And his response was
"I don't have to be rude to you every time. I thought being rude during the last conversation was the appropriate reaction and being cordial yesterday was what I felt like doing. And I feels no need to apologize about what I said. If I ever feel it in the future I will apologize."
I don't know what to do with that and why I think I need an apology that he doesn't feel the need to give to feel better. I know the only forgiveness that matters is when I can forgive myself. But it's so hard to get there. I'm so tired of hurting myself.
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 11, 2018 12:04:39 GMT
Thank you everyone for your responses and encouragement! It hasn't been easy to get my head out of the fishbowl.I'm very much still stuck with ruminations and the thought that now my ex hates me then I remind myself that he won't spend his energy on feeling any emotion for me and then I get sadder than where I started. This weekend I had a run in with him at a common friends house and he spoke to me like the last conversation didn't happen. I tried really hard to not analyze his friendly behavior but could only get by a day before I reached out to him for an explanation. And his response was "I don't have to be rude to you every time. I thought being rude during the last conversation was the appropriate reaction and being cordial yesterday was what I felt like doing. And I feels no need to apologize about what I said. If I ever feel it in the future I will apologize." I don't know what to do with that and why I think I need an apology that he doesn't feel the need to give to feel better. I know the only forgiveness that matters is when I can forgive myself. But it's so hard to get there. I'm so tired of hurting myself. Hey Rookie....wow I find it disturbing that in a very condescending way he admits to treating you rudely and sees absolutely no problem with that. That’s a problem. That’s over a boundary and one you shouldn’t entertain. Just exit. It’s one thing for him to not be ready to be in a relationship, it’s another thing to be rude...as he admits. Also, he’s telling you that he’ll be rude or cordial however he sees fit...depending on HIS mood. It’s all about him. You don’t need to worry about forgiving yourself- you should instead protect yourself from a person that will treat you however he feels in the moment, with no remorse or empathy. All you can do is stay away from him and not give him the opportunity to continue to be rude- he probably assumes you’ll always be there and he can treat you however he wants. So, be gone. Ignore him at common gatherings and surround yourself with people who care. You need to think of yourself bc he certainly isn’t...and not blame yourself for his limitations. Be kind to you and focus on healing. Hugs |
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