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Post by sissyk on Feb 1, 2019 14:16:59 GMT
OK...liking being friends with DA. We still have a great time when we are together, he has been much better about texting. I do like his humor and his company in my life. (Plus I am chatting with a new person so the pressure is off  BUT!!!! DAFA is letting me do all the initiating of plans. It is like he doesn't even think about making plans but is happy to agree to my ideas. The vibe is clueless with maybe a subtle note of take it or leave it. He was not great about initiating when we were kindasorta dating but it is like he has now let me take all initiative with relief. He has brought me several little presents and said kind things so I do think he cares in his way about our friendship. I know where this is friendzone, I can and will bring it up in time. It would bother me if it was any friend--I would want to see what the situation was. But I don't want to rock the boat where we are just back in regular friendly contact by bringing it up now. So my question is, do other DAFAs tend to have a take it or leave it attitude? If connection is right there in front of them cool, but they aren't going to hassle it? He has also told me over the months that he "sometimes forgets to eat all day" too--unrelated--but perhaps he is generally out of tune with his needs. - Since our break my DA is wanting me to initiate. This seems typical from what I’ve read and experienced. I even asked if he wanted me to stop reaching out (risky I felt bc I almost expected him to say yes), but he said he wants me to reach out. When I flat out told him once that it makes me uncomfortable doing the initiating, he told me I shouldn’t feel that way. I think since the break, although obviously unbalanced, this is part of building the trust and showing up consistently. It’s part of me being understanding and not keeping score. A lot of this feels new and vulnerable to me but I’m growing in my comfort with it. This is also part of him pulling back and feeling unsafe since the break up and progress at my end when I told him I’d appreciate a response and a request for space rather than just a non-response. Since I maturely and securely stated my request without acting crazy AP like I did in the “old days” he’s shown up for me. He always responds lately and I feel he’s getting better at expressing his needs- I’m working on that myself as I remind him to just tell me what he needs. I asked another direct question last week when I asked if he feels worse seeing me and he replied I make everything better. Nice to know.... So, yes, I think it makes sense that your friend is now letting you initiate since that’s exactly what my DA did. I think it feels safer for them. As far as take it or leave it, I think their cool facade is often that for a DA- a facade. My DA has a tough exterior. He’s not one to open up and share his feelings, but on the inside he’s extremely tender, sensitive, loyal and sweet. Sensitive to criticism and doubting anyone loves him. I think that tough exterior is protecting that vulnerable and tender space. So your friend may relax in time and with your warmth and acceptance. Did you watch the DA videos I linked to another thread? I felt the speaker was completely describing my DA. You may find it resonates as well 💜 Hi FHL!  Thank you--that was a great video..a lot of it resonates for sure. While I am no psychologist, I think my friend is likely DAFA but the Autism Spectrum also fits with a lot of his behaviors and seeming cluelessness. He may be on the spectrum and then have buttressed himself over the years with many defenses to protect himself from feeling he doesn't get people and people don't get him. I do like a challenge I am just going to be super direct with him, not take his omissions personally if I can help it, and enjoy our time together. He is a very cool person and what I see beneath the rough exterior is worth hanging in there to enjoy at my life stage. |
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Post by ocarina on Feb 1, 2019 15:25:21 GMT
Many adults with undiagnosed ASD have years and years of coping behaviours pasted to their person and therefore tend to wall themselves off socially - particularly if intimate relationships have been difficult in the past. Hiding within excessive work is typical - the forgetting to eat reminds be strongly of my ex partner and now friend - and of me!
No more speculation though - we are all our own people and in some ways DA or ASD makes little difference - I liken being with someone like this to a crash course in good relating - being honest and clear, being assertive of your own needs rather than bending entirely around theirs, not taking things personally, asking for clarification when you don't understand, not having expectations, taking what they say at face value - ie if they say they are not good at relationships it is sensible to believe that!
Feel free to PM me about it if you want to talk more - I have two ASD kids, an ex ASD partner who's now a good friend and also am more than likely on the spectrum myself so it's kind of my world!!!!
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Post by unluckyinlove on Feb 1, 2019 15:33:31 GMT
sissyk - I found this video this morning that resonates with me. The speaker talks about “choosing your pain”. And sometimes making the most painful choice will create the best life. I thought about the old cliche of “ripping the bandaid off”. It reminded me of your situation as I listened. youtu.be/IZt8P_Gf_uw
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Post by sissyk on Feb 1, 2019 17:12:27 GMT
sissyk - I found this video this morning that resonates with me. The speaker talks about “choosing your pain”. And sometimes making the most painful choice will create the best life. I thought about the old cliche of “ripping the bandaid off”. It reminded me of your situation as I listened. youtu.be/IZt8P_Gf_uw Thank you for thinking of me and posting this video, unlucky!. I do have some residual feeling of--what the heck happened here?--which is why I am still processing so much on these boards. At this point, I am not viewing this as a romantic love or long term partner thing. We went a month no contact during the holidays which helped. I am back in the dating world and starting to chat with another erudite animal lover who lives fairly close to me. (Hey, I have a type ) [I should make him take the attachment quiz early on And again, this is a bonus round for me as I am older and not trying to pair up for all of life's big milestones. I have been reluctant to cut ties with DAFA because I do feel a real connection with him. We are trying to be friendzone friends. He has many charms, but his behaviors are puzzling even in that role, as I have posted here. I dated someone short term last year and when after a month or so it was clearly not a fit, we said a nice good bye and good luck and that was that. But that complete cut off just doesn't seem instinctively right here. Yet anyway. ocarina Thanks so much for the wise words and offer to share your experience as needed. I am going to just be direct with him and make no assumptions bad or good about what he is thinking and enjoy our lively chat and visits for what they are. I love this forum! |
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Post by unluckyinlove on Feb 1, 2019 19:13:08 GMT
You’re def doing all the right things. I totally get the intense connection as I had that with my ex FA. Good for you for keeping that door open until you make a decision YOU are comfortable with but also good for you for moving your attention to the other fish swimming in this great big pond. 😊
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Post by faithopelove on Feb 1, 2019 21:38:03 GMT
sissyk - Since our break my DA is wanting me to initiate. This seems typical from what I’ve read and experienced. I even asked if he wanted me to stop reaching out (risky I felt bc I almost expected him to say yes), but he said he wants me to reach out. When I flat out told him once that it makes me uncomfortable doing the initiating, he told me I shouldn’t feel that way. I think since the break, although obviously unbalanced, this is part of building the trust and showing up consistently. It’s part of me being understanding and not keeping score. A lot of this feels new and vulnerable to me but I’m growing in my comfort with it. This is also part of him pulling back and feeling unsafe since the break up and progress at my end when I told him I’d appreciate a response and a request for space rather than just a non-response. Since I maturely and securely stated my request without acting crazy AP like I did in the “old days” he’s shown up for me. He always responds lately and I feel he’s getting better at expressing his needs- I’m working on that myself as I remind him to just tell me what he needs. I asked another direct question last week when I asked if he feels worse seeing me and he replied I make everything better. Nice to know.... So, yes, I think it makes sense that your friend is now letting you initiate since that’s exactly what my DA did. I think it feels safer for them. As far as take it or leave it, I think their cool facade is often that for a DA- a facade. My DA has a tough exterior. He’s not one to open up and share his feelings, but on the inside he’s extremely tender, sensitive, loyal and sweet. Sensitive to criticism and doubting anyone loves him. I think that tough exterior is protecting that vulnerable and tender space. So your friend may relax in time and with your warmth and acceptance. Did you watch the DA videos I linked to another thread? I felt the speaker was completely describing my DA. You may find it resonates as well 💜 Hi FHL! Thank you--that was a great video..a lot of it resonates for sure. While I am no psychologist, I think my friend is likely DAFA but the Autism Spectrum also fits with a lot of his behaviors and seeming cluelessness. He may be on the spectrum and then have buttressed himself over the years with many defenses to protect himself from feeling he doesn't get people and people don't get him. I do like a challenge I am just going to be super direct with him, not take his omissions personally if I can help it, and enjoy our time together. He is a very cool person and what I see beneath the rough exterior is worth hanging in there to enjoy at my life stage. Interesting...it makes sense that being on the spectrum would look a like an avoidant. The human relating part and social aspects can seem so off with both. |
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Post by ocarina on Feb 2, 2019 9:59:48 GMT
A quick example of the communication struggles.... So the backstory - relationship for 6 years - I asked for more communication more presence, he disappeared for nearly 18 months (we still saw each other occasionally but no mention of relationship). At the end of that he reappeared saying he loved me and he'd never loved anyone else and surely we could work something out. FFwd 6 months during which I realised he couldn't/ wouldn't give me/ be what I need in a relationship we're now really close friends - I've sent two SMS in the last 48 hours - no reply to either. Last time I asked him what he wanted from me he said to see me more often - since that conversation two weeks ago, one last minute invite and nothing else. In a relationship this kind of thing didn't work for me - but perhaps it would for some people? As friends it kind of does as long as I remember not to take it personally and not to have any expectations that things will change and perhaps most importantly NOT to put my life or my needs on hold for him (or anyone else!). So sissyk I think you're doing everything you can by being aware of your own feelings, by being open and honest even when it's a difficult conversation - and if you're feeling a bit baffled it's likely that the signals being sent are baffling - but you choose whether to just note it as such - or whether to let your head be tied in knots..... |
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Post by sissyk on Feb 2, 2019 16:15:44 GMT
A quick example of the communication struggles.... So the backstory - relationship for 6 years - I asked for more communication more presence, he disappeared for nearly 18 months (we still saw each other occasionally but no mention of relationship). At the end of that he reappeared saying he loved me and he'd never loved anyone else and surely we could work something out. FFwd 6 months during which I realised he couldn't/ wouldn't give me/ be what I need in a relationship we're now really close friends - I've sent two SMS in the last 48 hours - no reply to either. Last time I asked him what he wanted from me he said to see me more often - since that conversation two weeks ago, one last minute invite and nothing else. In a relationship this kind of thing didn't work for me - but perhaps it would for some people? As friends it kind of does as long as I remember not to take it personally and not to have any expectations that things will change and perhaps most importantly NOT to put my life or my needs on hold for him (or anyone else!). So sissyk I think you're doing everything you can by being aware of your own feelings, by being open and honest even when it's a difficult conversation - and if you're feeling a bit baffled it's likely that the signals being sent are baffling - but you choose whether to just note it as such - or whether to let your head be tied in knots..... Ha. Are we friends with the same person? When we had a direct talk end of November, DA said at one point in the convo he would like to see me more as he enjoys our time together so much...then he went dark for weeks. We had a lovely time Sunday, he texted me a very nice chatty for him thanks.We text maybe once or twice a week typically. Several days ago I texted to ask if he was coping with the polar vortex ok in his old house. No answer. I would be concerned he was frozen in a snowbank if this wasn't his pattern and he has coworkers who would miss him quickly. |
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Post by faithopelove on Feb 3, 2019 4:17:23 GMT
A quick example of the communication struggles.... So the backstory - relationship for 6 years - I asked for more communication more presence, he disappeared for nearly 18 months (we still saw each other occasionally but no mention of relationship). At the end of that he reappeared saying he loved me and he'd never loved anyone else and surely we could work something out. FFwd 6 months during which I realised he couldn't/ wouldn't give me/ be what I need in a relationship we're now really close friends - I've sent two SMS in the last 48 hours - no reply to either. Last time I asked him what he wanted from me he said to see me more often - since that conversation two weeks ago, one last minute invite and nothing else. In a relationship this kind of thing didn't work for me - but perhaps it would for some people? As friends it kind of does as long as I remember not to take it personally and not to have any expectations that things will change and perhaps most importantly NOT to put my life or my needs on hold for him (or anyone else!). So sissyk I think you're doing everything you can by being aware of your own feelings, by being open and honest even when it's a difficult conversation - and if you're feeling a bit baffled it's likely that the signals being sent are baffling - but you choose whether to just note it as such - or whether to let your head be tied in knots..... Ha. Are we friends with the same person? When we had a direct talk end of November, DA said at one point in the convo he would like to see me more as he enjoys our time together so much...then he went dark for weeks. We had a lovely time Sunday, he texted me a very nice chatty for him thanks.We text maybe once or twice a week typically. Several days ago I texted to ask if he was coping with the polar vortex ok in his old house. No answer. I would be concerned he was frozen in a snowbank if this wasn't his pattern and he has coworkers who would miss him quickly. - Yup, my DA went into deep freeze this week, too. I asked him about getting together this weekend- no reply. So about 7 hours later I asked if he was ok. (He’s been telling me for a few weeks he’s worried about his kids but then tells me he doesn’t want to talk about it.) His response, about 3 hours later, was “nope...talk later.” What’s the deal? Sometimes I wonder if he hides behind stress as an excuse to create distance. Surely he had worries about his kids before but he still saw me- and he had plans to see his friends Fri. night. It’s all so bizarre to me. I’m almost ready to say- are you in or out? Decide. Today was a rough one for me.... |
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Post by ocarina on Feb 3, 2019 12:03:48 GMT
The bottom line is that all the analysing in the world isn't going to change the situation - eventually and repeatedly I had to make myself forget about why he was doing what he was doing and what I could do to control it - and let go of the reins in order to examine whether I wanted to stay in a situation where inconsistency was inbuilt. It's crazy making for sure - but when I was totally honest I realised that I had to let myself be made crazy - that it was my choice. My choice was to walk away at least on a relational front and to emotionally detach.
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Post by sissyk on Feb 3, 2019 13:29:24 GMT
The bottom line is that all the analysing in the world isn't going to change the situation - eventually and repeatedly I had to make myself forget about why he was doing what he was doing and what I could do to control it - and let go of the reins in order to examine whether I wanted to stay in a situation where inconsistency was inbuilt. It's crazy making for sure - but when I was totally honest I realised that I had to let myself be made crazy - that it was my choice. My choice was to walk away at least on a relational front and to emotionally detach. I hear you. Not puzzling over the tea leaves in his texts or silence will free up a lot of real estate in my brain. It is a relief. I really hope we can continue hanging out but may have my limits there if his communication is too unpredictable. He also clearly has less need for communicating between visits than I do. I'm going to give him lots of loose rein. Just starting to chat with new prospect online. In the past I have wanted to meet in person quickly but am trying a little more prescreening this time due to some battle fatigue. But so far it feels like an easy back and forth. Not like waiting, hand wringing, for the carrier pigeon to arrive so a useful contrast. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 17:12:08 GMT
Trying to force a mutual and consistent relationship with a person who doesn't share your vision is like trying to domesticate a wild animal. Sure, if you put food out that you know they like, (you've studied up on this), you can watch them come eat it when it suits their internal rhythm. If that is all the enjoyment you need from these mysterious creatures then they will come eat as long as the tray is full and they are habituated to that. But they aren't going to come when you call, they are living a life beyond your sight that is unknowable to you and you can't follow. They aren't inviting you to their natural world like you are inviting them to yours.
Ultimately, you may tire of this fascination and make your own decisions about your level of engagement and expectation from the shadow dwellers in your yard.
This is a long apparently painful period of watchful waiting for the feeder. Not so much for the wild animal.
We've probably all been there at some point, with someone. There's no shame in wanting but eventually peace comes through acceptance of the observable, not hoping for the unseen.
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Post by sissyk on Feb 4, 2019 13:21:34 GMT
Trying to force a mutual and consistent relationship with a person who doesn't share your vision is like trying to domesticate a wild animal. Sure, if you put food out that you know they like, (you've studied up on this), you can watch them come eat it when it suits their internal rhythm. If that is all the enjoyment you need from these mysterious creatures then they will come eat as long as the tray is full and they are habituated to that. But they aren't going to come when you call, they are living a life beyond your sight that is unknowable to you and you can't follow. They aren't inviting you to their natural world like you are inviting them to yours. Ultimately, you may tire of this fascination and make your own decisions about your level of engagement and expectation from the shadow dwellers in your yard. This is a long apparently painful period of watchful waiting for the feeder. Not so much for the wild animal. We've probably all been there at some point, with someone. There's no shame in wanting but eventually peace comes through acceptance of the observable, not hoping for the unseen. This is beautifully put. Thank you! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2019 13:37:23 GMT
Trying to force a mutual and consistent relationship with a person who doesn't share your vision is like trying to domesticate a wild animal. Sure, if you put food out that you know they like, (you've studied up on this), you can watch them come eat it when it suits their internal rhythm. If that is all the enjoyment you need from these mysterious creatures then they will come eat as long as the tray is full and they are habituated to that. But they aren't going to come when you call, they are living a life beyond your sight that is unknowable to you and you can't follow. They aren't inviting you to their natural world like you are inviting them to yours. Ultimately, you may tire of this fascination and make your own decisions about your level of engagement and expectation from the shadow dwellers in your yard. This is a long apparently painful period of watchful waiting for the feeder. Not so much for the wild animal. We've probably all been there at some point, with someone. There's no shame in wanting but eventually peace comes through acceptance of the observable, not hoping for the unseen. This is beautifully put. Thank you! You're welcome. This all reminds me of how I longed and longed for my father. He was unreachable to me. Magical thinking is so powerful, though. |
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Post by sissyk on Feb 4, 2019 15:59:01 GMT
This is beautifully put. Thank you! You're welcome. This all reminds me of how I longed and longed for my father. He was unreachable to me. Magical thinking is so powerful, though. Paging Dr. Freud! My father was estranged since my childhood. I learned he died by Googling. Ancient history and I didn't see that dynamic particularly played out in my long marriage. BUT this DA is a decade older than I am and has a traditional old fashioned masculine quality that feels familiar. As a side note, DA encouraged me to do some research into my estranged father and I purchased a drawing he had done decades ago on Ebay (He was an artist and a ballet dancer.) Owning it is weirdly comforting. So lots to unpack here! Or I can save it for my novel.... You maybe have not read this whole Illiad length thread but I do feel I have come a long way in my understanding of DA, the limits of our connection, my part--and the whole human experience in general. I am at the enjoying the wild animal when he feels safe enough to come out stage--but clearly still studying up on the animal's behavior by hanging out here. |
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Thank you--that was a great video..a lot of it resonates for sure. 
