DA has been "single for decades" Hopeless?

@blacksnow, I don't think your feelings are fake, persay. But because of the attachment style stuff, there's a disconnect. Emotions in general are supposed to be guides and indicators but not necessarily truth. When you've got an insecure style and some internal disconnection or blockers, then you may feel feelings and emotions you do have but misattribute them.

So for example, you're triggered AP because you perceive a partner left. Maybe it feels like omg it must be love! But it's really an overactive nervous system responding to a fear of abandonment, searching for a way to reconnect so you can survive and won't die. Because this made sense as a response when you were a little kid, and maybe it was life and death. But though it isn't now, old conditioning is still in there. And it hardly seems intuitive to feel that passion and need for someone and attribute it to a scary environment when you were a child, right???

After all the experiences I've had, both assessing myself and observing my insecurely attached exes, I believe you can't know how you actually feel about someone if you're triggered. It is the space between triggers that can let you see both what your feelings are and attribute them correctly. However, an issue for unaware FA, and for unaware AP as well, is that space can seem boring compared to being anxiously triggered. I've come to really dislike being AP triggered at this point, and found a lot more preferable comfort, stability, and actual love with my ex FA when I was working toward secure and we were trying to reconcile. However, he wasn't moving towards secure so ended up finding the diminished sexual sparks (ie I wasn't triggering him anxious) boring so he left. Sometimes I'd wonder if I should try to instigate anxious triggering but I ultimately decided that was totally unhealthy because I don't want a relationship that relies on triggering. That, to me, is fake and creates distance instead of real connection and intimacy (versus a fantasy bond and being stuck in a pattern instead of growth), which is ultimately what I want.

The cycle in a nutshell. A secure will walk away from such crazy making.

I don’t get that connection with my AP bc when I fell for this guy it’s when we were close and he was attentive, supportive, wonderful. I had a few unreasonable AP moments due to my own issues but when I fell for him there was no pulling away- only intimacy.

Alexandra, so how do you think sexuality is different in a secure relationship or as a person (you?) become more secure? If it isn't about sparks, passion, desire, chasing attraction, etc., what is the motivator? This is something I have a hard time fully understanding as someone who has had a very fiery fantasy life that doesn't reconcile with reality. In the AP mindset it's so easy to feel unfulfilled, but that may he unrealistic expectations or a sense that sex should be a particular thing. What's the secure mindset about sexuality, particularly in long term relationships where there isn't a honeymoon phase going on? [/quote]


That’s interesting! In secure relationships there is passion, attracation and great sex. But sex is also an way to stay connected and show love. I like crazy nice sex but I don’t really like a nice, crazy, up and down relationship. Sex don’t get boring, my attractions don’t get less when someone give consistency in the day-day life.

Well... yes and no. He and I have talked about that directly, and, in true FA reactionary fashion, it depends on the day. (In fact, typing you an answer to this of  reasonable length was hard, because it's so convoluted and full of his contradictions, and getting into too much detail on a public board, so I may try to send you a more detailed answer separately). But, there's a couple main problems. First, he knows he cares enormously about me. He's always owned up to how strongly he feels our emotional connection. He actually knows something is wrong on his end and it's not me (we had zero issues physically for several months, and magically the attraction returns if he's triggered anxious), but he doesn't understand his problems to the point that he's decided they are "inactionable." However, I know the truth is he's too scared of what he's going to find to do the work. So, that is on him, and it is his choice not to want to become aware and face it. It's easier for him in the short-term to sink back into the idea of, if he is attracted to what sounds like every woman in the entire world EXCEPT me, then I am the problem. So he knows I'm not the problem when he's not triggered (though he still doesn't have the capacity to deal with it at those times and gets depressed about it), and it's easier for him to deflect blame when he is. Which is a lot of negativity to hold in a relationship, so I understand why he took the easy way out. And I've had to walk away too, because after going through two full relationship cycles and finally understanding it, there's zero I can do if I put my work in on to fix my own issues but he's still unwilling to do the same, and I deserve a lot more than a guy who just wants to run away.

The other problem is, because he can't make sense of his feelings, he uses sexual attraction as his only "reliable" gauge. Because how do you argue with attraction? And over-prioritizes that type of connection. Then he double misattributes because in addition to that... he had an epiphany one day that he's AP, due to his awareness of his anxious triggers with all his avoidant exes. That's most of his dating history, and what he's comparing me to. He has zero awareness that he also deactivates. I told him once I started noticing, because this isn't something he only does with me, but he just defensively rejects the entire concept and doesn't want to hear it. Which.......... case in point, right? It's going to be really difficult to confront your insecure attachment if you have it pegged incorrectly, because they all evolve for slightly different reasons and result in different behaviors and require different work to overcome.

I think the answer to your style question depends on the source of the connection. If it's mostly sex holding together the relationship, or something more like trauma bonding, then yes, I do believe it's basically their insecure attachment styles and the holes they're trying to fill through that holding things together. It's more about the sparks, intermittent reinforcement, and addictive qualities. If the emotional connection and friendship and actual affection and caring foundation is truly there, then the attachment style is doing the opposite and getting in the way of holding things together. It's getting in the way of true connection, intimacy, vulnerability, and choosing to do what's best for both you and your partner, because insecure attachment is going to result in an imbalance (you're either going to go too far to one side and lose yourself or too far to the other and protect yourself).

leavethelighton, I agree with stayhappy and was going to say something similar. There's still passion but it's not overwhelming emotional hunger or need. I found it to be far more about expressing and sharing connection, sharing comfort and experience, feeling appreciative and just liking the other person without push/pull. The passion I then really started to feel came from starting to feel safe enough to really want to explore some stuff I hadn't before. Unfortunately, we didn't get far into that because of the subsequent deactivating.

I can't speak to feeling that way in very long-term partnerships of years upon decades because I haven't gotten there yet. My best guess would be, if the most excitement I was feeling was coming from exploration possibilities, that's why you'd have to do some creativity work to keep things as fresh later on, when less has been left unexplored. Or, creating some physical space (not emotional space, maybe like affectionate touch but no release) to more appreciate coming back together.

My AP mindset was all about sparks and chasing attraction, and while coupling with DAs was always the most physically, uh, rewarding in regards to intensity, I was never satisfied or fulfilled and my anxiety would kick back in after the afterglow... because when there wasn't enough stability, which there wasn't because of the insecure foundations that were mostly based on intense triggering, it seemed it could end at any moment.

I was with one person between relationships with my ex. The sexual chemistry was nuts... but unfortunately, so was he. He got flat out mean and gaslighted me after just a few weeks, and I ran away because it was hardly worth it. And, I was still AP but had gone through several months of work at that point, so more secure than in previous romantic situations.

Sorry we're tangenting so much sissyk!