Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 15:57:06 GMT
young people are getting all kinds of terrible messaging about relationships through so many channels.
why the heck wouldn't a parent offer an alternative source of information by educating about attachment theory?
my relationship with my kids allows for this kind of dialog without even coming near to control.
they still come to mom for advice, but when i offer it it's with hands off and just to support and be available.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 9:20:44 GMT
There's nothing wrong with educating about the attachment theory, but as a concept, not as a solution.
From developmental point of view he's in a process of developing his identity, he's still in a phase when he's trying to figure out what's right for him, what isn't- that's why confusion(sometimes brought by conflict: expectations from themselves and from others vs their true selves- which can make them feel like there's something wrong with them) is quite normal.
I'd argue that it isn't the best time to give them labels, or even an idea of a label. And if you worry about their attachment and they come to you can "guide" them by showing them what a secure attachment looks like.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 13:33:32 GMT
There's nothing wrong with educating about the attachment theory, but as a concept, not as a solution. From developmental point of view he's in a process of developing his identity, he's still in a phase when he's trying to figure out what's right for him, what isn't- that's why confusion(sometimes brought by conflict: expectations from themselves and from others vs their true selves- which can make them feel like there's something wrong with them) is quite normal. I'd argue that it isn't the best time to give them labels, or even an idea of a label. And if you worry about their attachment and they come to you can "guide" them by showing them what a secure attachment looks like. i disagree wirh this wholeheartedly but all that means is that i disagree. it goes against my real experience as a mother, and also i'd point out that the internet is feeding them info al the time, lol. they can handle it. it's educational. not going to break a young adult with info about attachment theory. nope. unless you do what some spiteful AP on the internet does, like Natalie Lue; call attachment injured individuals Mr. Unavailable and Assclowns. there's a label. no, give it to them cleanly and let them "adult" with it. |
|
|
|
Post by epicgum on Nov 13, 2018 13:58:06 GMT
There's nothing wrong with educating about the attachment theory, but as a concept, not as a solution. From developmental point of view he's in a process of developing his identity, he's still in a phase when he's trying to figure out what's right for him, what isn't- that's why confusion(sometimes brought by conflict: expectations from themselves and from others vs their true selves- which can make them feel like there's something wrong with them) is quite normal. I'd argue that it isn't the best time to give them labels, or even an idea of a label. And if you worry about their attachment and they come to you can "guide" them by showing them what a secure attachment looks like. i disagree wirh this wholeheartedly but all that means is that i disagree. it goes against my real experience as a mother, and also i'd point out that the internet is feeding them info al the time, lol. they can handle it. it's educational. not going to break a young adult with info about attachment theory. nope. unless you do what some spiteful AP on the internet does, like Natalie Lue; call attachment injured individuals Mr. Unavailable and Assclowns. there's a label. no, give it to them cleanly and let them "adult" with it. Ahhh...it's satisfying to see someone else down on Natalie Lue. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 14:03:34 GMT
There's nothing wrong with educating about the attachment theory, but as a concept, not as a solution. From developmental point of view he's in a process of developing his identity, he's still in a phase when he's trying to figure out what's right for him, what isn't- that's why confusion(sometimes brought by conflict: expectations from themselves and from others vs their true selves- which can make them feel like there's something wrong with them) is quite normal. I'd argue that it isn't the best time to give them labels, or even an idea of a label. And if you worry about their attachment and they come to you can "guide" them by showing them what a secure attachment looks like. i disagree wirh this wholeheartedly but all that means is that i disagree. it goes against my real experience as a mother, and also i'd point out that the internet is feeding them info al the time, lol. they can handle it. it's educational. not going to break a young adult with info about attachment theory. nope. unless you do what some spiteful AP on the internet does, like Natalie Lue; call attachment injured individuals Mr. Unavailable and Assclowns. there's a label. no, give it to them cleanly and let them "adult" with it. I said there's nothing wrong with educating them about the attachment theory (or psychology theories and relationships in general). You're there to teach them, not the internet. They shouldn't even need that in the first place. I'm just saying that, I wouldn't necessary tell them this is a source of their particular problems. You might think that and you might unintentionally convince them that, it's what's going on 'cause of your own cognitive bias. There's a danger of taking the theory too far (searching answers only through that) and using it as filter of the reality because it might make sense. You've never seen a AP who thinks their DA broke up with them only because they're DA? Have you never assumed anything about a person because you identified them as AP? Have you never used an AP label to describe an individual even though their behavior doesn't represent 20% of population/there's clearly more going on than just their insecure attachment?And again, it's a period of his life when he's figuring himself out and he still can't properly asses himself. Let's use it as a tool, not an answer. Teaching them emotional intelligence might be the answer. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 14:14:26 GMT
i disagree wirh this wholeheartedly but all that means is that i disagree. it goes against my real experience as a mother, and also i'd point out that the internet is feeding them info al the time, lol. they can handle it. it's educational. not going to break a young adult with info about attachment theory. nope. unless you do what some spiteful AP on the internet does, like Natalie Lue; call attachment injured individuals Mr. Unavailable and Assclowns. there's a label. no, give it to them cleanly and let them "adult" with it. Ahhh...it's satisfying to see someone else down on Natalie Lue. yeah, she is one of the many self righteous, verbally and emotionally abusive toward avoidant , AP authors dominating the net with her twisted views crying about a lack of empathy. when she had an affair with a married man she was his victim lol. she was an assclown to the other woman perhaps, but you'll only hear about how he used and manipulated her. come on, Nat. she is on point on a lot of stuff but it's all surrounded by victimy avoidant blaming garbage. so yeah, counter all that bulkshit with some straight up attachment theory. send them here. i like avoidants. lol. Lue and Co. perpetuate the problem of AP victim hood and emotional and verbal abuse of avoidants by said victims. Better hear it from your avoidant mother whom you love and respect than from Nat "Ms. Empathy" Lue  |
|
|
|
Post by ocarina on Nov 13, 2018 22:20:56 GMT
Thanks again for the input - and sorry been busy work so haven't managed to reply individually.
I agree that I don't want to project my own experiences onto him - teens have failed relationships full stop - it's part of the learning process and I totally get that and can't rescue him from this as such. To his credit he recognises the patterns he sees which I think is admirable in someone so young and he wants to do something about it.
I think there is a real danger that attachment style (insecure) is presented as a pathology - he already stated he needs to change his whole self - which is sad.
He is a real thinker - bright, sensitive and prone to rumination and I am wary of leading him down a path through my own projection.
Somebody suggested along the way introducing him to emotional intelligence and tools for self awareness - I think this is something that everyone benefits from and I have sent him some acceptance and commitment therapy resources - for him to take it or leave it. He's away at University until Christmas so we won't catch up face to face but I do think that becoming emotionally attuned to oneself and learning to tolerate difficult feelings with compassion for self and others is key whatever so this seems a good start, even if not directly related to his current experience.
I like it that all my children want to talk this kind of thing through with me and I certainly agree that modelling security, compassion and wisdom is worth more than a thousand words.
|
|
|
|
Post by ocarina on Nov 13, 2018 22:23:03 GMT
20 is young but not so young. I am not sure his style is fully evident at this time as it's somewhat normal to date around at that age and figure out what your needs are. It's never too early though to learn about self awareness. Maybe getting to know himself, not necessarily in the context of relationships, but just as himself is a good step. Yes - I think that is a very good start Mary |
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Nov 13, 2018 22:47:59 GMT
20 is young but not so young. I am not sure his style is fully evident at this time as it's somewhat normal to date around at that age and figure out what your needs are. It's never too early though to learn about self awareness. Maybe getting to know himself, not necessarily in the context of relationships, but just as himself is a good step. Yes - I think that is a very good start Mary I’ve already started talking about attachment styles with my teenage son who isn’t dating yet- never too young to be self-aware and observant of others. I wish I had learned all this valuable info 30 years ago before I met and got hyper attached to my future husband at age 14. It’s never too young to pass along this knowledge. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 22:53:34 GMT
Thanks again for the input - and sorry been busy work so haven't managed to reply individually. I agree that I don't want to project my own experiences onto him - teens have failed relationships full stop - it's part of the learning process and I totally get that and can't rescue him from this as such. To his credit he recognises the patterns he sees which I think is admirable in someone so young and he wants to do something about it. I think there is a real danger that attachment style (insecure) is presented as a pathology - he already stated he needs to change his whole self - which is sad. He is a real thinker - bright, sensitive and prone to rumination and I am wary of leading him down a path through my own projection. Somebody suggested along the way introducing him to emotional intelligence and tools for self awareness - I think this is something that everyone benefits from and I have sent him some acceptance and commitment therapy resources - for him to take it or leave it. He's away at University until Christmas so we won't catch up face to face but I do think that becoming emotionally attuned to oneself and learning to tolerate difficult feelings with compassion for self and others is key whatever so this seems a good start, even if not directly related to his current experience. I like it that all my children want to talk this kind of thing through with me and I certainly agree that modelling security, compassion and wisdom is worth more than a thousand words. The fact that he can be open and talk with you about these things speaks volumes. I am very close with my children and I think that has gone a very long way for them forming other relationships. |
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Nov 13, 2018 22:54:00 GMT
There's nothing wrong with educating about the attachment theory, but as a concept, not as a solution. From developmental point of view he's in a process of developing his identity, he's still in a phase when he's trying to figure out what's right for him, what isn't- that's why confusion(sometimes brought by conflict: expectations from themselves and from others vs their true selves- which can make them feel like there's something wrong with them) is quite normal. I'd argue that it isn't the best time to give them labels, or even an idea of a label. And if you worry about their attachment and they come to you can "guide" them by showing them what a secure attachment looks like. I wish I had known about my attachment style and others in my teenage years- I would’ve saved myself so much grief and heartache. And my ex husband and kids.... The earlier the better to correct faulty thinking and irrational fears- before the behaviors and patterns are more deeply ingrained. Knowledge is power. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 6:37:16 GMT
There's nothing wrong with educating about the attachment theory, but as a concept, not as a solution. From developmental point of view he's in a process of developing his identity, he's still in a phase when he's trying to figure out what's right for him, what isn't- that's why confusion(sometimes brought by conflict: expectations from themselves and from others vs their true selves- which can make them feel like there's something wrong with them) is quite normal. I'd argue that it isn't the best time to give them labels, or even an idea of a label. And if you worry about their attachment and they come to you can "guide" them by showing them what a secure attachment looks like. I wish I had known about my attachment style and others in my teenage years- I would’ve saved myself so much grief and heartache. And my ex husband and kids.... The earlier the better to correct faulty thinking and irrational fears- before the behaviors and patterns are more deeply ingrained. Knowledge is power. NOW you wish it. You know the consequences, you're in your 40s, with much more knowledge about yourself and the world. Do you think the anxious, madly in love 14 year old you would have made any use of it? A good use of it? Or would you benefit more from developing overall emotional intelligence, emotional regulation and self awareness? Again I don't say you shouldn't have known it. They should teach it (and psychology) at school, imho. |
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Nov 14, 2018 21:19:24 GMT
I wish I had known about my attachment style and others in my teenage years- I would’ve saved myself so much grief and heartache. And my ex husband and kids.... The earlier the better to correct faulty thinking and irrational fears- before the behaviors and patterns are more deeply ingrained. Knowledge is power. NOW you wish it. You know the consequences, you're in your 40s, with much more knowledge about yourself and the world. Do you think the anxious, madly in love 14 year old you would have made any use of it? A good use of it? Or would you benefit more from developing overall emotional intelligence, emotional regulation and self awareness? Again I don't say you shouldn't have known it. They should teach it (and psychology) at school, imho. I don’t know in hindsight if I would’ve made good use of it or not. I just know that deeply ingrained patterns after several years are harder to move away from....and even if my 14 year old self would’ve rejected it temporarily, maybe my 24 year old or 30 year old self would’ve made use of the knowledge. Still would’ve saved me a ton of grief at 30. The point is- you can’t apply knowledge you don’t have, whether it’s at 14, 18 or 38. I’m very open with my kids bc of my stifled upbringing and I wouldn’t want it any other way. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 8:32:26 GMT
NOW you wish it. You know the consequences, you're in your 40s, with much more knowledge about yourself and the world. Do you think the anxious, madly in love 14 year old you would have made any use of it? A good use of it? Or would you benefit more from developing overall emotional intelligence, emotional regulation and self awareness? Again I don't say you shouldn't have known it. They should teach it (and psychology) at school, imho. I don’t know in hindsight if I would’ve made good use of it or not. I just know that deeply ingrained patterns after several years are harder to move away from....and even if my 14 year old self would’ve rejected it temporarily, maybe my 24 year old or 30 year old self would’ve made use of the knowledge. Still would’ve saved me a ton of grief at 30. The point is- you can’t apply knowledge you don’t have, whether it’s at 14, 18 or 38. I’m very open with my kids bc of my stifled upbringing and I wouldn’t want it any other way. "There's nothing wrong with educating about the attachment theory, but as a concept, not as a solution."
I think you all don't understand what I'm trying to say. I only claimed that sending someone a message that without realizing might come off as "Son/daughter, your relationships fail because there's something fundamentally wrong with you and if you don't fix yourself you're going to hurt people" (not literally, of course, I know it wouldn't be the intention but you have no idea how the other person, a person who might be insecurely attached will understand and take it in) is not the best idea. Especially when it comes to a kid who is forming his identity right now (there are certain developmental stages every person goes through which shouldn't be discarded because one theory fits and becomes all) and confusion is pretty normal. Many experience identity crisis, they don't know what they want to do, where to belong, they feel they don't fit in- putting expectation and labels on such individual isn't the best idea, imho. They need to experiment in this stage. When they succeed, they can move to another stage in which probably most of you are(hence everything resolves around the attachment theory), when it's time to form more intimate relationships and it becomes your main focus (from developmental point of view). It's the time when it could be most helpful. If they don't succeed in the identity stage, they won't be much happier anyway. Just an example that has nothing to do with relationships, most juvenile delinquents have a peak of their "activities" between age 19 and 20, from that point it decreases and only a small percentage of them keeps committing crimes after age 25. They stop not because they were resocialized by institutions but because they realized they have a choice. Would they benefit if they heard that they're criminals, degenerates? Would they feel like they have a choice? That's why I say, give them knowledge but don't tell them what they ought to do or be. |
|
