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Post by gaynxious on May 9, 2017 21:59:15 GMT
Why is it that avoidant behavior seems so inexplicable to other people and when couples try to explain the anxious avoidant trap to people they either don't understand or seem to have no familiarity with the situation? After all, 25-30% of the population is avoidant and jeb's writing indicates anxious avoidant couples are the second most common long term pairing. Shouldn't most people have met a number of these couples and heard similar complaints? Wouldn't a sizable number of secures have dated avoidants? It just seems strange to me that this seems to be common but we have no understanding socially about the issue. I realize attachment theory is not wildly known but you would think there would be some colloquial shorthand that would closely approximate these issues.
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Post by annieb on May 10, 2017 2:55:17 GMT
I believe a term "emotionally unavailable" is often used to describe an avoidant.
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Post by Herewegoagain on May 10, 2017 5:26:11 GMT
I became aware of the avoidant and attachment types in general after dating an 'extreme case'.
I was aware of my own issues...I'd pegged it 'love addiction'.
After this last guy...I started to dig and search for answers because I was so confused, and now I'm fully versed on attachment styles.
In retrospect I've dated unavailable, and avoidant men. But this case was the most extreme...in terms of the swing from 'great' to 'WTF?'. All the other avoidant/unavailable men I'd dated in the past had huge red flags that I choose to ignore. This one...some subtle red flags, but the fact that we were new and LD camo'ed them a bit.
Anyway I feel like most of the people here, or I see posting on the web and reading books like Jeb's...are the people who have encountered pretty extreme avoidant partners.
I know what it's like to have emotions and feelings you feel like you can't control (anxiety, depression)...and I'm still just reeling over this last guy. Like I understand the science but still processing it.
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Post by robnew on May 10, 2017 18:14:48 GMT
I'd say the reason is that, at least in part, in order to recognise it in such specific terms, one needs to have both the desire and the ability to see the underlying causes behind any such behaviour in a relationship. Unless otherwise motivated, most people won't look beyond a surface level, or are incapable of doing so.
I'm sure there are many people who just see their partner as either moody, difficult, confused, or temperamental, without knowing why, and so, if and when those relationships fail they just put it down to that, without understanding the causes. In fact, if you look at relationship forums, it's possible to see many cases of relationships that fail for what we might now see as avoidance issues, which the affected party is blissfully unaware of.
Speaking as someone who sits more on the secure side, the day to day issues were less extreme, as a secure partner probably does less to trigger those extremes. As such, when a break comes, it might be because of something else, such as an argument, which might mask the underlying causes, and so you tend to take it at face value, shrug, accept it, and move on.
In fact, that was exactly the case in my recent break up, and ordinarily I would have put it down to that, and not given it much second thought. That was even knowing that my ex had abandonment issues, which she'd expressed but, like most people, I was unaware of just how deeply such issues run, and the internal conflicts they produce. It was only after the split that these things became apparent, as her subsequent behaviours didn't match up.
My getting angry and shouting, which was the "cause" of the break up, was never once brought up in any subsequent conversation. The initial anger on her part was never about that, and was directed only at me causing something "good" to end, and even that passed in less than a day. After that it was all good feelings, and an apparent desire to reconcile, but with her underlying fears now being expressed as the only obstacle. It was only the fact that she initiated contact after the break up that allowed these things, and other apparent inconsistencies, to become apparent; which, along with my desire to reconcile, prompted me to dig deeper. Had she not, or had she remained angry and unresponsive, then I'd have put it solely down to the initial argument, and left it at that.
So, depending on the circumstances, desires, ability, and motivations of one or both partners, any number of reasons could be assumed for such behaviours or break ups, before one might consider any kind of attachment issues or disorders.
In fact, the reverse is also true, as I've also seen examples where some immediately jump to the conclusion of such issues, when faced with relationship difficulties, where it's often apparent that it's merely a case of either lost attraction, or natural insecurity, and the subsequent actions of both partners have led to a cause and effect that anyone could choose to interpret as avoidant if they so wished.
As I've said in other posts, all people have a tolerance level to either rejection or being smothered and, if someone is pushed to their limit in either direction, they will act in an avoidant manner. An avoidant person just has much narrower tolerances, and thus more extreme reactions.
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Post by annieb on May 10, 2017 18:16:12 GMT
Why is it that avoidant behavior seems so inexplicable to other people and when couples try to explain the anxious avoidant trap to people they either don't understand or seem to have no familiarity with the situation? After all, 25-30% of the population is avoidant and jeb's writing indicates anxious avoidant couples are the second most common long term pairing. Shouldn't most people have met a number of these couples and heard similar complaints? Wouldn't a sizable number of secures have dated avoidants? It just seems strange to me that this seems to be common but we have no understanding socially about the issue. I realize attachment theory is not wildly known but you would think there would be some colloquial shorthand that would closely approximate these issues. Also I think when people describe living with a narcissist, or being in a relationship with a narcissist, they are probably describing being in a relationship with a dismissive avoidant. Real true narcissists are not that common (I worked for one and I would say they are often out of touch with reality in more ways than a romantic relationship), but many people possess narcissistic traits as a defense mechanism. I am really thankful to this research because it lets me look at my dismissive ex(s) and myself (I am a Fearful Avoidant that tests on the lower end, but get worse with stress) with compassion rather than hatred or some other reactionary emotion.
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Post by gaynxious on May 11, 2017 17:00:25 GMT
I'd say the reason is that, at least in part, in order to recognise it in such specific terms, one needs to have both the desire and the ability to see the underlying causes behind any such behaviour in a relationship. Unless otherwise motivated, most people won't look beyond a surface level, or are incapable of doing so.... Speaking as someone who sits more on the secure side, the day to day issues were less extreme, as a secure partner probably does less to trigger those extremes. As such, when a break comes, it might be because of something else, such as an argument, which might mask the underlying causes, and so you tend to take it at face value, shrug, accept it, and move on. In fact, that was exactly the case in my recent break up, and ordinarily I would have put it down to that, and not given it much second thought. That was even knowing that my ex had abandonment issues, which she'd expressed but, like most people, I was unaware of just how deeply such issues run, and the internal conflicts they produce. It was only after the split that these things became apparent, as her subsequent behaviours didn't match up... So, depending on the circumstances, desires, ability, and motivations of one or both partners, any number of reasons could be assumed for such behaviours or break ups, before one might consider any kind of attachment issues or disorders. Something seems true about these points. In the book attached it starts off listing some very specific scenarios about relationship troubles and talks about how generally they all seem so different and so much the result of individual circumstances, tastes, and personalities as well as their specific combination but that taking an attachment theory lens they all have the same root problem, it's the particular feelings, symptoms, and hardships that are the result of these previously attributable variables. Also, as humans we seem to have a great need for closure and I've done some reading on psychology research around breakups and one of the key stages in recovery is narrative construction. We need to create our own explanation of events to explain why things happened The way they did to move forward. This is often where we discount our own contributions to the problem and it is probably similarly comfortable to blame external circumstances or aspects of our partners and ourselves deemed unnecessary to change. Attributing events to such deep seated needs would probably require more insight and awareness than most people would like or are even capable of.
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Post by Herewegoagain on May 11, 2017 17:18:37 GMT
I tend to get the most closure when I can see how I contributed to the situation as well as the other person's contribution. The less like a 'victim' a feel, the easier it is for me to move on...the less 'I could have done something different' I feel...the easier it is for me to move on. So basically when I'm not totally blaming myself or the other person
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