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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 0:39:24 GMT
i've recently worked up the courage to have a conversation with a DA to clear things up, and I wanted to share and sensemake.
I've mentioned in other threads that there is this DA I'm having vibes with. We were hanging out and then when i broached the question of "are we dating", he said he's not ready for dating and then disappeared on me. Which is fine, because I wasn't either. In the recent months, we got reconnected again at some event, and things got abit wonky. It felt like we wanted to reconnect but whenever we do it's awkward and tense for me - I felt triggered. we were supposed to go for some event together and the communication over the event was awful and we ended up cancelling everything. i was annoyed at him. so i worked up the courage to tell him I was annoyed at him (I felt like puking) and he said he was at me too.
so i asked for a conversation and said that things are awkward between us and i don't really like it because i care about this connection and am trying to protect it. and i felt like I should just put this out there so he knows how i feel, but i'm not asking him to do anything about it. i just wanted him to know this because i want to be honest with people i care about and see where they stand. i told him honestly that this is a big deal to me and i've never done it before, but i thought it was important because i've screwed up relationships before and i didnt want this to happen for us. i thanked him for listening and for chatting with me, and i didn't blame him for anything. I just shared how i felt and what i thought, kept very calm, and focused the conversation on me. i don't think i did a great job at being clear, partly because i didn't know what i was supposed to say, and partly because there was no conversational flow that allowed for more honesty from me, he would shut it down or dismiss it or just acknowledged it as it's my problem and he doesn't see why it's even a problem in the first place.
I was proud of myself for having this conversation, even though i think it went nowhere, because I was untriggered after that (now i see him, i no longer have that little jolt in my heart) and I could see how he used the same tactics as my ex did. I was super proud that I recognized those tactics and didn't let myself get knocked off-center by it. I was also proud that I kept calm and wasn't at all emotionally upset with the conversation. I was however very stressed and self conscious for having the conversation though (because I am conflict avoidant maybe?), but not by the conversation itself.
I did feel very stupid that I had to ask for this conversation to have closure with this person. Especially when he kept saying we're friends and acting like this conversation is all my issues and it's my problem that I'm awkward and afraid of him sometimes. I didn't mind that we aren't dating, but I really did thought we were friends and to me, friends mean actually having a relationship and communication. I did tell him that while these conversations are awkward, I do hope that our relationship allows for these conversations and that they aren't awkward. I had similar conversations with others and while it's slightly awkward, we could truly still have a relationship and hold enough space for these awkward conversations to happen.
In any case, I think I did what I could to preserve and honor the connection I thought we had. Post the conversation, I felt like the friendship is just a narrative he evoked to cover for the fact that he chose not to date, but didn't want to explicitly tell me that. if we were truly friends, i think the conversation would gone alot more harmoniously and lovingly.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 28, 2019 1:40:27 GMT
I was also proud that I kept calm and wasn't at all emotionally upset with the conversation. I was however very stressed and self conscious for having the conversation though (because I am conflict avoidant maybe?), but not by the conversation itself. I did feel very stupid that I had to ask for this conversation to have closure with this person. Especially when he kept saying we're friends and acting like this conversation is all my issues and it's my problem that I'm awkward and afraid of him sometimes. if we were truly friends, i think the conversation would gone alot more harmoniously and lovingly. Good for you for speaking up and trying to reconnect and not hold it in! I don't think you should beat yourself up for feeling weird about having a talk or that your discomfort was from you being non-confrontational. This sounds like it's both of you bringing discomfort to the table, and your feelings are playing off his guardedness and kind of what sounds like a lack of empathy in discussing problems (he sounds like he was triggered and lashing out instead). I've found that when I'm really so uncomfortable telling someone my needs, it's often because their desire to avoid that kind of depth / taking any responsibility is triggering me because I'm unsure how to be heard without making them uncomfortable (usually, there is no way, you just do what you did, remain calm and keep it about you and what you need). If he can't step up and answer calmly stated and reasonable concerns (that aren't blame-y) that you're trying to put out there to solve what you identified was mutually felt conflict, even just as friends, then he may not be the best person to stay close to while you're trying to do your other self-work and continue to heal (even if you stay distant friends). I'm sure he's not doing it on purpose and has the same difficulty accepting criticism, or hearing feedback as criticism even if it isn't, as all insecures. And while that's not on you, you don't need to put up with the blame-shifting, either. Friends care enough to take concerns seriously, even if they disagree. |
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Post by faithopelove on Feb 28, 2019 2:23:44 GMT
You may have felt stressed and self-conscious having the conversation bc it was a one-sided conversation. Even if you’re communicating openly and honesty, with vulnerability and no blaming, it’s hard to feel received when the other person is shut down and not acknowledging how you feel or engaging in the conversation. A meaningful in-depth conversation requires two people actively giving and receiving and showing empathy for the other.
Sounds like you handled yourself really well considering and you should feel good bringing up a topic that you’d normally avoid. Progress
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 3:21:19 GMT
absolutely alexandra and faithopelove , I am in agreement with everything you both said, especially the one-sidedness and being triggered by my perception of his desire to avoid some depth/accountability. While I did consciously think that (I did tell him I was fearful of him at times and I couldn't tell him honestly what I think/felt), I didn't want to highlight his role and be taken as blaming or criticising, precisely of what @alexndra said. All I wanted to do was to let him know how I feel because I'm practising honest and kind communication for myself - I also made it explicit to him that that was my goal. This situation was exactly the kind of situation I need to apply myself and do something like I said I would. A couple of highlights: I definitely felt that he vacillated - he wanted to know but he also put up defenses. Similarly, I wanted to tell, but I couldn't voice all of it because it would have made no sense. For example, me: hey i've been feeling like it's awkward between us and I wanted to put it out there and see where you're at him: I have no idea what you're talking about. i don't think so at all. me: oh, so i'm overthinking this? mm ok, then i guess there's nothing much to discuss. I should go then. him: i guess I know what you're saying. it's been awkward. me: ? ? ? That disruption to the flow of conversation made it difficult to truly engage and be honest because one is trying to navigate the spoken and unspoken words and they're not very aligned nor forthcoming. What I did notice is the use of "labels" to justify behaviors rather than simply addressing the relationship that one has. He kept saying we're friends, and I was abit confused, because I thought we're friends ALL ALONG, since the first conversation he said he wasn't ready to date. On hindsight, i realized I was confused because I am making an effort as a friend to address the awkwardness, but he might be coming from a "i don't want to date you so we're friends". rather than just clarifying things and discussing our dynamics, he kept insisting we're friends with this pointed look like "friends" should have addressed everything I'm talking about. I have no resentment or anger towards him at all, and if the conversation paves the way for some real friendship building, I'm all for it. I am very grateful, however, that he did make an effort to have a chat with me and that he didn't lash out as much as he could have. I think that is his way of making an effort for us, and I really appreciated it. It was difficult for both of us, and we admitted that to each other. Again, i felt that there was vacillation between being intimate and being shut down after the conversation. |
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Post by mrob on Feb 28, 2019 13:18:50 GMT
Two triggered people is not going to end well, regardless of what insecure attachment they’re inflicted with.
For me, if I’m pushed into a corner, I’ll shut down. Every time. There are a number of instinctive reactions.You know that old thing “if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all”? That’s always my first thought. It’s total rubbish, by the way. No honest communication, looking towards resolution, can come from that. The next hurdle is that I can never make a woman cry. That ignores that she is in control of her own emotions, and, no tough conversation can be had without the risk. Then there’s, “if I tell the truth, she’l lbe so disappointed, she’ll leave” So, to have a reasonable conversation with this FA is hard work! - and that’s while you’re saying the first sentence!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 23:12:20 GMT
Sorry mrob, I'm abit confused. are you saying that we were both triggered? and that I think he's an FA or he thinks I'm an FA? or are you telling me what you think is happening here? |
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Post by mrob on Mar 1, 2019 1:31:41 GMT
I’m saying all of those things. You’ve felt the need to have this conversation with an obviously unavailable person. It’s about the most secure thing someone can do, however. He’s triggered. If somebody hasn’t looked at this stuff, there are no answers available to them that will make any sense. Ever.
I’ve been in his position. I watched somebody that I couldn’t acknowledge I was in a relationship with, walk away after such a conversation, collapse crying in the front yard and I was so triggered I felt nothing. I knew I should have felt something, but there was nothing there. That’s was the most authentic relationship I’d ever had, and I still miss her today, but in that moment, bereftness.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 2:23:35 GMT
ah, i see what you're getting at. yes, i agree with you on all that you've said. when i said sensemake, it wasn't to sensemake the interaction (though I did give details/examples), but to sensemake my own experience/learnings on my progress to earning secure. For me, the focus now is to draw out explicitly the elements of the interaction that makes it a good/not so great pairing e.g., what are the differences between 2 people that made one conversation so much easier than the other? I'm starting to notice all these things that differentiate the quality of relationships I have, and so am highlighting it as a way to clarify them. you're right that he is triggered by/during the conversation - i completely recognize the signs and symptoms, which is why i didn't get triggered by him. Writing those examples helped me objectify it,and also i hope others can learn from it. I went in knowing that it's unlikely to be a honest, logical, reasonableness conversation, which is why I didn't make it a conversation, but just really telling him where i'm at. The point i was trying to make is that I feel awkward and I don't like it, and that it is my wish that we aren't so awkward. There was absolutely no question on "are we dating" or "what is this thing going on between us" -- that was his thing by repeating that we're friends. It would have been great if it was a reasonable conversation, but I didn't go in expecting it and seeking an answer from him. I went because i wanted to be open with people i cared about, without expectation that they would meet me where I am, and most certainly not from him. funny you said the crying thing.. i did tell him not to worry because i'm not gg to make a fuss and cry. it's interesting though. I'm at a point where I'm not confused as to whether we have a connection/relationship and what all that conversation meant. I did notice that when I take his words seriously/literally, it's can be very confusing. but when I focus on me and keeping centered and just allowing the connection to be, I'm actually not confused. i.e., be less cognitive, be more in the present. I know we do have that attraction/connection. if we didn't, we wouldn't be so triggered when we're in contact. and i'm comfortable and secure in that knowledge, i wasn't asking him to formalize/acknowledge the relationship e.g., we're friends/we're dating. I actually don't want a relationship. I just choose to respect and honor the connection that we have by being kind and honest. I let him know where I am at, and if that provides an example of how we can be moving forward, may it facilitate stronger bonds. my resolution for this year is this: I will treat everyone with honesty and kindness, and if they do not reciprocate or abuse it, then the person is dead to me. If that person is able to return that, i'll keep the person in my life and nurture the connection. I'm not focusing so much on keeping people regardless of how i'm treated - I'm focusing on keeping people who can provide me with the interactions that I desire. i'm sorry mrob that you've had to experience that. It must have been very difficult and helpless for you to navigate. |
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Post by faithopelove on Mar 1, 2019 3:00:34 GMT
I’m saying all of those things. You’ve felt the need to have this conversation with an obviously unavailable person. It’s about the most secure thing someone can do, however. He’s triggered. If somebody hasn’t looked at this stuff, there are no answers available to them that will make any sense. Ever. I’ve been in his position. I watched somebody that I couldn’t acknowledge I was in a relationship with, walk away after such a conversation, collapse crying in the front yard and I was so triggered I felt nothing. I knew I should have felt something, but there was nothing there. That’s was the most authentic relationship I’d ever had, and I still miss her today, but in that moment, bereftness. - And this is why I just went silent on my ex weeks ago. I gladly would’ve had a conversation to express my feelings and concerns, but I know he wouldn’t want to participate in that conversation. He’s been emotionally numb for 16 months and it doesn’t seem to matter what I do or don’t do. He’s shut down and doesn’t want to talk. It’s hard to understand and accept. It feels like a great loss, but I can’t make him want me or us. I know he cares, but he’s unwilling to act on it. |
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Post by faithopelove on Mar 1, 2019 3:30:06 GMT
I’m saying all of those things. You’ve felt the need to have this conversation with an obviously unavailable person. It’s about the most secure thing someone can do, however. He’s triggered. If somebody hasn’t looked at this stuff, there are no answers available to them that will make any sense. Ever. I’ve been in his position. I watched somebody that I couldn’t acknowledge I was in a relationship with, walk away after such a conversation, collapse crying in the front yard and I was so triggered I felt nothing. I knew I should have felt something, but there was nothing there. That’s was the most authentic relationship I’d ever had, and I still miss her today, but in that moment, bereftness. - After you are triggered with a partner like that, do you ever open up again or are you done forever? |
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Post by mrob on Mar 1, 2019 4:52:30 GMT
It was never quite that bad before. I missed her terribly after about 10 days. I think I started posting on this board about that time. I would have cycled again, but she had met someone far more secure, so I stayed away.
I think that’s one of the large differences between DA and FAs. I’ll come back. I don’t want too much distance.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 5:01:16 GMT
It was never quite that bad before. I missed her terribly after about 10 days. I think I started posting on this board about that time. I would have cycled again, but she had met someone far more secure, so I stayed away. I think that’s one of the large differences between DA and FAs. I’ll come back. I don’t want too much distance. I'd come back within a couple weeks if I was serious about trying and there was a lot of good, but I just deactivated hard. I experience separation elation right after a departure, but it is temporary and fades within that time frame. But if I'm really done I won't go anywhere near it again. I think with DA we get capital D Done more often than FA do. We move in a linear fashion and FA move in a circular fashion, I think. Maybe. I guess. It seems so. |
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Post by faithopelove on Mar 1, 2019 6:33:42 GMT
It was never quite that bad before. I missed her terribly after about 10 days. I think I started posting on this board about that time. I would have cycled again, but she had met someone far more secure, so I stayed away. I think that’s one of the large differences between DA and FAs. I’ll come back. I don’t want too much distance. I'd come back within a couple weeks if I was serious about trying and there was a lot of good, but I just deactivated hard. I experience separation elation right after a departure, but it is temporary and fades within that time frame. But if I'm really done I won't go anywhere near it again. I think with DA we get capital D Done more often than FA do. We move in a linear fashion and FA move in a circular fashion, I think. Maybe. I guess. It seems so. Yes, I agree....I’ve seen this too with FA and DA. |
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