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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 3:25:54 GMT
I have a girlfriend who is very dismissive, we have known each other about three years I think, and she tends to come and go depending on what goes on in her life. I hadn't seen her in about six months and she came to see me the other day and we had a great talk about relationships and being dismissive, and what it all means and where we want to go with our healing. First we had a good laugh about the fact that we hadn't spoken for half a year. No explanation necessary, I know exactly why she disappeared. She's been stressed to the max! After admitting she wishes she had come to see me sooner, we compared notes on some of the odd or simply distinct things we think and do, as dismissives. I wouldn't say these behaviors are unique to dismissives, (maybe some are) but we had a good time saying "ME TOO! OHMYGOD EXACTLY! YES!" to this list so I thought I would share it here in case someone can relate. Now, some of these things have changed a lot for me as I've become more healthy. But some are still there. 1). When stressors mount, we want to handle it alone. "Goodbye, everyone, I'll see you when I get back from fixing all this. And I will fix it- just give me time." (I don't isolate most of the time, I can catch myself in the habit and reach out). 2) When feeling vulnerable in romantic (not other types ) relationship, or insecure about whether or not we should trust and let ourselves in for it, we switch to business-like communication and terms. Instead of talking about emotions we will make it rational and about . That way, if you reject the terms of engagement, you're not rejecting us, you're rejecting our concrete terms. (I find this embarrassingly hilarious, we died laughing at some of the bullshit fronts we have put on with men we were attracted to. When you know better you do better though.) (HOWEVER!! Some, if not a lot, of our rational approach is completely honest and our favorite way to organize our time and lives and priorities and thoughts! It's just that we can turn to this trait as a defense against vulnerability and it works for us in that capacity too. Its a go-to when stressed, let's just say. ) 3) When shut down, a normal thought for us to have is "We are born alone, we will die alone, and so will everyone else. Not a bad idea to get used to, not a bad truth to live by." It's just a natural response to suppress the need for close relationships, and is a very strong response to loss and pain. And attachment, unfortunately. It's automatic and deeply ingrained and strangely very soothing to recognize isolation and endings as a fact of life, whether or not anyone else agrees, this is how we see it and how we comfort ourselves. 4) We both have had an awareness of being neglected and abandoned in our families of origin, but operated most of our lives on the assumption that we outgrew that as adults. Turns out, it has impacted us in countless ways and shaped us and made us different in ways that we like and also ways that we don't like. We do like being independently minded and strong and count that as a blessing that came from hardship. 5) A feeling of anxiety is rare. It is experienced as tightness in the chest and a pounding heart in acute conflict, or some other serious, acute stressor in life, but it is hard to imagine feeling that way when triggered by relationships like AP's describe. We talked about that for a while because it seems like it would be very difficult to deal with. When unsure and triggered, we feel uneasy but calm, shut down, and kind of exhausted. We deal with emotional distress by turning the volume down on thoughts about it, turning our attention elsewhere, and letting things set until we know what to do. Until we are ready to deal with it, we aren't ready and won't. 6) When experiencing a trigger, and deactivating because of it, we fully believe the negative , rationalizing thoughts we are having. We are trying to figure out how to adjust to the realization we have just had, that this just isn't working and it is not right. (THIS being the relationship ) We are soothing our painful feelings with thoughts like #3, and also "Ok, I got it wrong this time but I'll survive, I'll be ok, I'll focus on what I know I can get right, this too shall pass, I'm so tired, I think I'll take a nap. Maybe I can think more when I have had some rest. Zzzzzzzz" 7) We really enjoy being active in our own lives and pursuits and successes! We enjoy exploring our interests and capabilities, and are often making and accomplishing goals that are rewarding and useful. It's a big part of our happiness! Nobody can take that away. That's an awesome thought, and it's very empowering. 8) We take our responsibilities very seriously, and feel angry if someone can't appreciate that and give us the time and space to do what we need to do to cover our bases. 9). We want love and connection but seriously doubt it's in "the plan" for us. Then we realize that's probably a fearful and defended thought, and it's also a conditioned thought because really, it's what we know best and feeling deeply, safely, securely " romantically" connected is foreign and seems impossible to attain. We are saddened and mystified by this and alternate between acceptance and grief about it. We do try. Friendships are much more doable. These are just a few of the things we agreed on when we "compare notes". I should clarify, that a lot of this is the thinking that occurs habitually in our lives, which gives way to more enlightened thinking with practice and healing and effort. These are the normal "tapes" that run in the background that we have to try to overwrite with new thoughts, behaviors, experiences. Of course, some like 7 and 8 we have no need or desire to change. I invite any dismissive reading to add their own- if there are any out there  |
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Post by ocarina on May 7, 2019 19:18:18 GMT
I was for many years the archetype of a DA - and only really came to realise it when paired in a long term relationship with someone more avoidant than me!
Nowadays I float somewhere around secure most of the time - but only because I catch myself avoiding and check before it goes too far - I was also pretty FA with my ex partner - so it's situational for sure.
Typical DA from me:
1. Never really get emotionally involved - just never. Not on purpose perhaps and subconsciously but nonetheless I was fairly take it or leave it in relationships until recently.
2. Uber resilient - I like this one. I feel like the world can be collapsing around me and I remain calm and rational - great at dealing with trauma, sometimes too great.
3. When I decide to do something I do it - have done some pretty gruelling sporting things in the past, learnt some cool stuff, done some academic things that are pretty intense - all because I set my mind to do these things. It's great - I love that kind of determination and focus.
4. Rational - and humorous - especially in stressful emotional situations - often diffuse the intense feelings my making something to smile about and or rationalising and stating things clearly and concisely but without feeling.
5. Emotional responses are often very delayed - ie happen a long time after the event - maybe because I would rather not experience them at all so often will subconsciously supress emotional stuff.
6. Stress tends to make me want to separate from the world - although nowadays I would much rather share it with trusted friends. Sometimes I don't speak to friends or family for months and don't return calls for this reason.
7. Tend to think there are easy answers in relationships - if something is repeatedly painful then leave or let go. Little patience for other people who get stuck and wallow in pain (sorry terrible admission!)
8. Happy being unconventional - what other people think of me is not important to me - this still holds today.
Nowadays though I am very aware of the need to live a life in line with my values - and I realise that some of these behaviours were not serving me or others - I am much more emotionally aware and as a result life is richer and more meaningful.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2019 2:26:12 GMT
Relatable, ocarina! Common themes that have gone largely by the wayside for me but the shadow is still there- I just try to keep it illuminated. And, some traits I value and see as an asset, as well. My circle of intimate friends has grown and my emotional availabilty and consistency in romantic relationship has become mostly secure, with just a bit more personal space and independence on the spectrum, and that's ok. There are personal differences in secure people, too!  Thanks for sharing! |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 19:25:43 GMT
Here's another one, that I notice as I talk more with my DA friend. I know I am much the same as her, just farther down the line to security and have been working on these things a while. It's funny when you have a mirror to look at, in a friend. So anyway, this isn't bad at all, i like it, but it's striking how practical she is! I am depending on her quite a bit at this time for emotional support as I go through some changes and sadness. We've agreed to stay in close touch for each other when challenges are difficult, with regular contact to check in and show love.
Last night I was overcome by emotion and could not stop crying after I tucked myself in bed. I cried so hard for so long but it was good. When i shared that with her this morning her response was simply: "Crying is so DETOXIFYING!" šš. Someone else might have asked why I cried, or elaborated about emotion. But, she KNOWS my process right now, she gets it, she didn't have to ask. She kept it so simple and practical and it just made me smile.
Also, I've been sharing a lot with her though the day about what I am going through, and while I have to deal with feelings of being too "needy",I really enjoy her solidarity and encouragement. When I told her how much she is helping me she said "It is helping me more! You are expressing all the things I feel but never have said."
With a DA, it's not that things aren't happening inside, we just don't let on, may not ever say it. Until expressing and sharing become a way of life with a healing process, it just stays inside where no one can touch it (except maybe another DA it seems!)
Someone else might misunderstand the way she speaks or expresses support for me, but I know it's so deep and comes from the heart. Her words are so few but her heart is so big.
It is the same with my DA ex. I'm a talker now, but I'm surrounded by DAs of few words!
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Post by faithopelove on May 10, 2019 21:35:10 GMT
Here's another one, that I notice as I talk more with my DA friend. I know I am much the same as her, just farther down the line to security and have been working on these things a while. It's funny when you have a mirror to look at, in a friend. So anyway, this isn't bad at all, i like it, but it's striking how practical she is! I am depending on her quite a bit at this time for emotional support as I go through some changes and sadness. We've agreed to stay in close touch for each other when challenges are difficult, with regular contact to check in and show love. Last night I was overcome by emotion and could not stop crying after I tucked myself in bed. I cried so hard for so long but it was good. When i shared that with her this morning her response was simply: "Crying is so DETOXIFYING!" šš. Someone else might have asked why I cried, or elaborated about emotion. But, she KNOWS my process right now, she gets it, she didn't have to ask. She kept it so simple and practical and it just made me smile. Also, I've been sharing a lot with her though the day about what I am going through, and while I have to deal with feelings of being too "needy",I really enjoy her solidarity and encouragement. When I told her how much she is helping me she said "It is helping me more! You are expressing all the things I feel but never have said." With a DA, it's not that things aren't happening inside, we just don't let on, may not ever say it. Until expressing and sharing become a way of life with a healing process, it just stays inside where no one can touch it (except maybe another DA it seems!) Someone else might misunderstand the way she speaks or expresses support for me, but I know it's so deep and comes from the heart. Her words are so few but her heart is so big. It is the same with my DA ex. I'm a talker now, but I'm surrounded by DAs of few words! @sherry - whatās challenging for me with a quiet DA in that distancing place is that itās hard for me to read. My ex DA also says little, never one to say much, but at times itās hard to tell if itās DA quiet or plain old āI donāt feel like being bothered.ā He tells me to reach out and not to take his shutting down personally, but it feels very uncertain. The lack of reciprocity is hard to interpret. |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 23:51:08 GMT
Hi faithopelove , I am not sure what you mean by quiet, do you mean not being very conversational or not being available for contact? What kind of reciprocity do you mean? My favorite mode of being with my partner in person is to just be quietly together, my ex DA and I would speak to get worries off our minds and share a bit about the day and then just be silent together in close proximity, maybe snuggling or watching a nature show or something. Just relaxing. That isn't the same as the emotionally unavailable shutdown (which isn't necessarily personal). Or do you mean he just doesn't initiate contact or respond quickly? I mean, there are so many ways to be quiet. Even "I don't want to be bothered " isn't necessarily personal. It's just a preference for time in one's own headspace or activity. If you mean lack of emotional reciprocity in terms of relationship expectations that's another matter entirely. That still isn't necessarily personal although it is immutable in most cases, and would show up as distance and quiet too. For the best clarity you'd have to ask him directly what he thinks and feels and wants around all that, it's the only way to know. Most DA that I know would answer a direct inquiry quite candidly. |
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Post by faithopelove on May 11, 2019 3:18:09 GMT
Hi faithopelove , I am not sure what you mean by quiet, do you mean not being very conversational or not being available for contact? What kind of reciprocity do you mean? My favorite mode of being with my partner in person is to just be quietly together, my ex DA and I would speak to get worries off our minds and share a bit about the day and then just be silent together in close proximity, maybe snuggling or watching a nature show or something. Just relaxing. That isn't the same as the emotionally unavailable shutdown (which isn't necessarily personal). Or do you mean he just doesn't initiate contact or respond quickly? I mean, there are so many ways to be quiet. Even "I don't want to be bothered " isn't necessarily personal. It's just a preference for time in one's own headspace or activity. If you mean lack of emotional reciprocity in terms of relationship expectations that's another matter entirely. That still isn't necessarily personal although it is immutable in most cases, and would show up as distance and quiet too. For the best clarity you'd have to ask him directly what he thinks and feels and wants around all that, it's the only way to know. Most DA that I know would answer a direct inquiry quite candidly. @sherry - Yes, although heās never been one for many words or long conversations (!) since the break heās also emotionally shut down. He has been up front about it- like you said he likely would. He tells me āthis is just the place heās in right now.ā He also told me not to take it personally. Heās a good man and I respect and love a lot of things about him but I donāt know if heāll ever not be shut down with me again. Our relationship was the first time he opened up and took an emotional risk and he felt it didnāt work. Heās very afraid to trust. He does respond when I reach out to him (he doesnāt initiate) but he keeps it short usually- heās guarded. Thatās what I meant by hard to judge- sometimes his distancing behaviors push me away so much I want to give up reaching out, but heās said before he doesnāt want me to stop. |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 12:22:16 GMT
Hi faithopelove , I am not sure what you mean by quiet, do you mean not being very conversational or not being available for contact? What kind of reciprocity do you mean? My favorite mode of being with my partner in person is to just be quietly together, my ex DA and I would speak to get worries off our minds and share a bit about the day and then just be silent together in close proximity, maybe snuggling or watching a nature show or something. Just relaxing. That isn't the same as the emotionally unavailable shutdown (which isn't necessarily personal). Or do you mean he just doesn't initiate contact or respond quickly? I mean, there are so many ways to be quiet. Even "I don't want to be bothered " isn't necessarily personal. It's just a preference for time in one's own headspace or activity. If you mean lack of emotional reciprocity in terms of relationship expectations that's another matter entirely. That still isn't necessarily personal although it is immutable in most cases, and would show up as distance and quiet too. For the best clarity you'd have to ask him directly what he thinks and feels and wants around all that, it's the only way to know. Most DA that I know would answer a direct inquiry quite candidly. @sherry - Yes, although heās never been one for many words or long conversations (!) since the break heās also emotionally shut down. He has been up front about it- like you said he likely would. He tells me āthis is just the place heās in right now.ā He also told me not to take it personally. Heās a good man and I respect and love a lot of things about him but I donāt know if heāll ever not be shut down with me again. Our relationship was the first time he opened up and took an emotional risk and he felt it didnāt work. Heās very afraid to trust. He does respond when I reach out to him (he doesnāt initiate) but he keeps it short usually- heās guarded. Thatās what I meant by hard to judge- sometimes his distancing behaviors push me away so much I want to give up reaching out, but heās said before he doesnāt want me to stop. Oh, if you're broken up, he isn't initiating, he doesn't have much to say and keeps it short, and he isn't emotionally available in terms of talking like friends do, he isn't shut down he's just decidedly uninvested and uninterested. It sounds like he's not necessarily unfriendly though, and doesn't mind a pop-in brief exchange if that's what you want. If you guys are having sex then it's just good manners to not refuse contact from the person you're in that arrangement with, and all the other absence is just about keeping it between the lines probably, if that's the case. In this thread I was just thinking about relating behaviors within a mutual relationship, like my friendship with my DA friend, or a partnership that involves several modes of availability. If you haven't got at least one mode of availability it's not what I would call a relationship, it's just kind of a peripheral contact. By modes of availability I mean: Emotional (Both partners share their feelings, experiences, hardships, joys, hopes, etc with each other and turn to each other for contact, sharing and support- equally emotionally invested in this realm.) Physical: Time is spent together engaged in intentional connection, with planning. This is companionship other than sexual interaction. Sexual: Sex, obviously. Time together for sex. Practical: Practical help for each other. If either party needs practical assistance (flat tire, home sick and need some medicine, etc,) they call on the other and aid is rendered, and this is reciprocal. Financial: Blending of finances or being available to assist financially and this is reciprocal. So for example, my ex DA and I are available to each other emotionally, and it's a very strong bond that we both lean on and maintain. So we call or text each other regularly to see how the other is doing, or talk about things we need support and friendship for. We also say good morning or hope you slept well, good night, etc, as a way to say "thinking of ya, hope you're well" I would like to eventually move into dating and another relationship and therefore have put boundaries around physical and sexual contact. We do try to be together for a shared activity in a public place once or twice a month or if our schedules align, so we can see each other in person and laugh and talk and enjoy the activity as friends. We maintain a bond with boundaries, which we both enjoy. But we know it's limits. We are both self reliant in the other realms although in an emergency we could ask for some help. Otherwise we have our own structures in place to meet our needs. I don't know what forms of availability are reciprocal with the man you're in contact with, that would dictate what is actually the kind of association you have. If I didn't have emotional availability I would be none of the above , personally. All of my personal relationships are founded on that and have various other elements. Except for sexual and financial availability: That's for the domain of committed relationship. |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 12:30:28 GMT
And very important:
I wouldn't advise being available without reciprocity in ANY of the availability domains, except in the case of a dying person who needs as much love and care and support as they can get. For friendship and romantic relationships reciprocity is fundamental.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2019 1:47:52 GMT
I had some time with a colleague today, who is also a dismissive (healing) woman, about my age. As she shared more of her history with me, and what she has uncovered, it was amazing to hear her saying the same things I've always said to myself.
She has a trauma history, sibling not parental. She said she has always been expected by her family of origin to dismiss her feelings. She is expected to play along and be nice and not upset the person who hurt her, or those who care for him. I have experienced this heavily in my own family of origin.
I'm the last of four kids, from parents who were not emotionally available, were poor but also worked very hard. I wasn't wanted and my birth was considered bad luck. So it makes sense that I would have been dismissed, myself.
My colleague also had parents who were unavailable, who were also very poor, and who worked very hard. She and I both obtained jobs as soon as legally of age, to buy our necessities and toiletries.
I don't think that's bad or remarkable, it just shows self sufficiency as soon as we could muster it. It was a necessity. I do not consider it a hardship it just underscores the need of our families that we take care of ourselves the best we can.
We shared some common phrases that are standard expressions of our deactivating survival thoughts. It was a little stunning to hear such a beautiful, healthy woman say them. But she read my diary out loud.
"We all die alone, there's no point getting too wrapped up with someone or upset about it."
"I can handle it" (as a way of making do with less or inappropriate situations or behavior, a suppression of our feelings and needs)
"I grow and thrive best by myself.". (I believe this to be true in some good ways, not just as a deactivation).
We have done our worst suffering inside of a relationship, so when we leave it we don't suffer further except for some residual anger or hurt or disappointment that we have remedied and now are just healing. Of course, this is referring to unhealthy relationships. Those have improved.
Friendships for us come and go but are important. we recognize that people and life change over time, and don't hold too tightly. But the friends we have, we can be apart for a long time and know when it is time to give or get help. I told her, "My friends are not my daily journal, it's not like that for me." and she totally got what I meant by that. I have seen most women I know be much more active i. their friendships and I while I know that doesn't suit me, or fit with how I am built, I don't feel I lack. The connections I have are infrequent but very deep. Such as this exchange today I feel very nourished by it and it will refresh me for some time to come. And we will see each other again perhaps in a month or two, or three.
Anyway, I really enjoyed my time with her and we appreciate the things we have in common because we both have come a very long way from where we have been. I wanted to share it for other dismissives.
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