happy
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Post by happy on May 11, 2019 13:25:20 GMT
There’s not a right place to post this I don’t think, so I’m just gonna put it here because it usually has to do with avoidants/ insecure attachment styles.
Something I have a hard time wrapping my mind around is how people go through their lives running through relationships where their partners treat them great the relationship is great, but either over-night fall out of love with their partner or just never develop feelings for them. Or they have those few partners where they treated them like shit, but fell deeply in love with them (rollercoaster relationship).
What I can’t wrap my head around is how they can go through their whole life (especially now) with all this easy access to information wondering why they never fall for people who treat them well and who are going to be great partners & end up chalking up their insecure attachment styles (usually this is what it is... I’d say) to “the stars just not aligning”. Like love is this metaphysical thing.
I guess what I’m frustrated about is looking at people seeing obvious patterns in their life, but being totally blind to it and it drives me fucking nuts and how they never make strides to really figure out what’s going on and just say that “you can’t force love”.
I get there is an aspect to attachment where you’re not going to be attracted to everybody (attractive & mentally health person or not) but what I’m primarily speaking about is people who have been dating someone for 6+ months (already decided they’re attractive and enjoy their company) and can now only figure out that they don’t love/like the person. I’ve never been in a predicament where I’ve just fallen out of love with someone or taken me MONTHS to figure out whether I fancy a person or not. (I am secure attachment so that probably why) It does take longer to figure out if I want a relationship with the person because I think logistics are more important if you’re looking for a long-term relationship, rather than just how they make you feel
I know I may sound really harsh in this post, but they say we’re the most judgmental of the things we don’t want to see in ourselves. I really value not making mistakes, but even more so, not making the same one twice.
Let me know your thoughts:)
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happy
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Post by happy on May 11, 2019 13:28:01 GMT
I could’ve posted in general discussion topic, but whatever it’s here now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 14:14:00 GMT
Hi, I'm a secure, too. Unfortunately, a lot of people are not self-aware of their own feelings. A lot of people aren't conscientious about the person they're dating or their needs. A lot of people are emotionally lazy and have terrible relationship skills. A lot of people live from moment to moment and figure out things as they go. A lot of people just want immediate gratification and to feel in love instantly. A lot of people don't know what the hell they want and are perfectly okay with taking someone along for the ride without putting much thought behind it.
That's not to say that people can't change their minds. You can absolutely change your mind at any moment in time. You can absolutely realize that you don't like this person enough to take this further and that this isn't exactly what you're looking for. You can absolutely realize this is not what you want without knowing what/who the hell it is you want.
I dated a guy that I think was FA/DA or basically emotionally unavailable. After I cut him off, I spent a lot of time thinking it was insane that he spent months integrating me into his life, friends, and took me to meet his parents and still have not wanted to commit. It seemed crazy to me that he spent four nights a week with me, had me around his buddies, wanted me to join him in all his hobbies, couldn't take his arms off of me, told me how wonderful/connected he felt to me and still not have felt "feel sparky" enough to call me his girlfriend.
Note: He told me he didn't feel enough of a spark after I cut him off. He didn't even have the courage to end the relationship. I'm sure he would have been perfectly fine stringing me along while not feeling "in love" with me as long as I allowed it.
I thought it was incredibly selfish behavior on his end because I'm so conscientious. I would have never put him in the same predicament he did to me (integrating me into all areas of his life) if i didn't feel strong enough to want to move the relationship forward. I would feel terrible inside if I strung someone along and deepened things while holding so much ambivalence inside, but unfortunately, not everyone is that conscious or secure or emotionally intelligent.
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happy
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Post by happy on May 11, 2019 14:29:03 GMT
Hi, I'm a secure, too. Unfortunately, a lot of people are not self-aware of their own feelings. A lot of people aren't conscientious about the person they're dating or their needs. A lot of people are emotionally lazy and have terrible relationship skills. A lot of people live from moment to moment and figure out things as they go. A lot of people just want immediate gratification and to feel in love instantly. A lot of people don't know what the hell they want and are perfectly okay with taking someone along for the ride without putting much thought behind it. That's not to say that people can't change their minds. You can absolutely change your mind at any moment in time. You can absolutely realize that you don't like this person enough to take this further and that this isn't exactly what you're looking for. You can absolutely realize this is not what you want without knowing what/who the hell it is you want. I dated a guy that I think was FA/DA or basically emotionally unavailable. After I cut him off, I spent a lot of time thinking it was insane that he spent months integrating me into his life, friends, and took me to meet his parents and still have not wanted to commit. It seemed crazy to me that he spent four nights a week with me, had me around his buddies, wanted me to join him in all his hobbies, couldn't take his arms off of me, told me how wonderful/connected he felt to me and still not have felt "feel sparky" enough to call me his girlfriend. Note: He told me he didn't feel enough of a spark after I cut him off. He didn't even have the courage to end the relationship. I'm sure he would have been perfectly fine stringing me along while not feeling "in love" with me as long as I allowed it. I thought it was incredibly selfish behavior on his end because I'm so conscientious. I would have never put him in the same predicament he did to me (integrating me into all areas of his life) if i didn't feel strong enough to want to move the relationship forward. I would feel terrible inside if I strung someone along and deepened things while holding so much ambivalence inside, but unfortunately, not everyone is that conscious or secure or emotionally intelligent. To respond to your part where you can decide not to take something further. What I’m referring to is you can always decide that logically, but if I did that with someone I was in a relationship with that doesn’t mean I could just do it emotionally because I couldn’t. I’m talking about people who fall out of love the next morning and are like “well you know all things come to an end and somethings are here for a season” that’s literally fucking insane to think in any capacity that you can love someone today and just feel nothing for them tomorrow because “they’re not the one”. I understand they can’t control it, but the fact that they think that’s normal and then do nothing about it. If someone woke up tomorrow morning and lost 100 pounds no one would be like “oh yeah that happens, sometimes you just lose half your body weight”
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 14:30:16 GMT
Also, it depends on what your definition of love is. For me love, is really liking someone and over time wanting to increasingly understand them, share with them, and find common ground with them, grow with them, and commit to them. I see love more as a partnership with attraction to someone that is my best friend. It doesn't have to feel like a movie to me.
For some people, love is only a feeling. For others, that rush of infatuation or elusive sparky feeling has to be there to even contemplate the possibility of falling in love and committing. I am definitely in the camp that love is more of a verb and will than a feeling, but to each their own!
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happy
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Post by happy on May 11, 2019 14:34:54 GMT
Also, it depends on what your definition of love is. For me love, is really liking someone and over time wanting to increasingly understand them, share with them, and find common ground with them, grow with them, and commit to them. I see love more as a partnership with attraction to someone that is my best friend. It doesn't have to feel like a movie to me. For some people, love is only a feeling. For others, that rush of infatuation or elusive sparky feeling has to be there to even contemplate the possibility of falling in love and committing. I am definitely in the camp that love is more of a verb and will than a feeling, but to each their own! IMO, I think people who see love as a movie hasn’t had relationships modeled in a healthy way when they were a child by their parents or just have unrealistic expectations that will only be met with disaster relationships. I don’t think any healthy relationship will truly give the intense feelings that a movie relationship portrays or that unhealthy ones give. I also want my love to be like you described, I have no idea why you’d want it any other way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 14:46:20 GMT
To respond to your part where you can decide not to take something further. What I’m referring to is you can always decide that logically, but if I did that with someone I was in a relationship with that doesn’t mean I could just do it emotionally because I couldn’t. I’m talking about people who fall out of love the next morning and are like “well you know all things come to an end and somethings are here for a season” that’s literally fucking insane to think in any capacity that you can love someone today and just feel nothing for them tomorrow because “they’re not the one”. I understand they can’t control it, but the fact that they think that’s normal and then do nothing about it. If someone woke up tomorrow morning and lost 100 pounds no one would be like “oh yeah that happens, sometimes you just lose half your body weight” Well, that seems absolutely crazy to me too, but I think that speaks more to someone's emotional inconsistencies than anything else.
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Post by blacksnow2 on May 11, 2019 16:50:02 GMT
IMO, I think people who see love as a movie hasn’t had relationships modeled in a healthy way when they were a child by their parents or just have unrealistic expectations that will only be met with disaster relationships. I don’t think any healthy relationship will truly give the intense feelings that a movie relationship portrays or that unhealthy ones give. I also want my love to be like you described, I have no idea why you’d want it any other way. That's not really true though. Lots of relationships start out with that intense sparkly feeling but settle into something less sparkly and more real/deep. That doesn't make it necessarily unhealthy. The problem is when people think that the chemistry is everything and they overlook compatibility, so they stay with someone who isn't really a good match.
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happy
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Post by happy on May 11, 2019 18:11:52 GMT
IMO, I think people who see love as a movie hasn’t had relationships modeled in a healthy way when they were a child by their parents or just have unrealistic expectations that will only be met with disaster relationships. I don’t think any healthy relationship will truly give the intense feelings that a movie relationship portrays or that unhealthy ones give. I also want my love to be like you described, I have no idea why you’d want it any other way. That's not really true though. Lots of relationships start out with that intense sparkly feeling but settle into something less sparkly and more real/deep. That doesn't make it necessarily unhealthy. The problem is when people think that the chemistry is everything and they overlook compatibility, so they stay with someone who isn't really a good match. Well yes I understand that. It’s infatuation which your attachment system enacts to promote bonding with that person. What I’m talking about is people expect their love life to be 100% of that intense infatuation or even half of it. Where it’s usually only the first couple months to two years where you’re in a deep infatuation for somebody. Or like I said have a roller coaster relationship in which it’s all the time.
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Post by 8675309 on May 12, 2019 13:17:13 GMT
Reality is some people dont care to see it, want to see it, etc. Im a secure too and cannot imagine the turmoils people live in and stay living it in.
Just like my avoidant guy, he knows hes off but does not do a thing about it. Even admits he should go to a DR to talk about his anxiety and cut off his toxic mother but doesnt. Shes still horrible to him and he keeps taking it.
It is what it is.
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happy
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Post by happy on May 12, 2019 20:42:55 GMT
Reality is some people dont care to see it, want to see it, etc. Im a secure too and cannot imagine the turmoils people live in and stay living it in. Just like my avoidant guy, he knows hes off but does not do a thing about it. Even admits he should go to a DR to talk about his anxiety and cut off his toxic mother but doesnt. Shes still horrible to him and he keeps taking it. It is what it is. I can’t even comprehend how people can do that. I feel like a certain self-awareness is everybody’s default and when I see a problem within myself I can’t just let it go unsolved without attempting to solve it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 21:01:54 GMT
Please consider, if you have not had the experience of having an attachment injury that shaped the "wiring" of your very nervous system and therefore your cognitive processes and emotional capacities, that there is a lot that you simply cannot empathize with or understand experientially . But, you but you might try to have humility and gratitude that you have not suffered this way. Often people diminish difficulty until they themselves experience it, then they are humbled. Perhaps you will experience something in yourself that baffles and confounds you and causes you great suffering someday and develop deeper empathy for this.
If you think of an infant who loses the impulse to cry because it does not get a response, an INFANT mind you, you will have a glimpse of what shaped an avoidant. Imagine an infant or young child subjected to an environment where they felt terror and abandonment and need (for survival) at the same time, these conditioned shaped the nervous system of a fearful avoidant.
You are ignorant and sound a little self righteous, and that can be understood and forgiven just as an attachment dysfunction in another can be understood and forgiven. I understand and forgive you for your ignorance, and I also am able to empathize with how you've been impacted by another person's suffering.
You may be harmful to others in ways you do not understand or have awareness of, even if you are "secure". Everyone on this planet suffers losses and disappointment and pain; and you have. Be thankful that you have not felt the pain of what those with insecure attachment do. It can be very desolate and hopeless on the inside, your experience of it on the outside is only one perspective.
You are free to move on and heal much easier than an insecurely attached person can- neuroscience confirms the difficulty. You don't have to change an entire lifetime of unconscious patterns and responses. They do. And they only have the brain they were born with and which was shaped by early trauma to even become aware of it with- it's more difficult than you may realize. There are internal defense mechanisms that are hardwired in them to obstruct this- it's no small thing to heal this all up. I speak from experience.
If you feel bitter or wish to understand more fully try some research, into the deep psychology and physiology of it.
Just a suggestion if you'd like to have a better understanding.
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Post by ocarina on May 12, 2019 21:37:58 GMT
The problem is that experience is subjective - it's easy as an observer to be critical of another person's behaviour but walk a mile in their shoes - or with their genes and upbringing and suddenly life takes on a whole new reality.
The point is that most behaviour in relationships is old stuff - it's driven by subconscious conditioning rather than malicious hurtful premeditated intent. Feelings in the moment equate to an individuals reality and in all honesty certainly in the Western society where I live, we are constantly sold the story that love equates to passion and fireworks rather than a choice.
If relationships are terrifying for whatever reason - and often the fear is so far below the surface as to be not consciously recognisable, then what incentive is their to look at attachment? Most people don't have the background or self awareness and support to dig into these intensely painful and personal stories.
I have to say the first post came across as judgemental and unkind - it's like asking why someone can't stop drinking when it's harming their health, or smoking or overeating or whatever. Easier said than done.
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happy
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Post by happy on May 13, 2019 3:39:30 GMT
Please consider, if you have not had the experience of having an attachment injury that shaped the "wiring" of your very nervous system and therefore your cognitive processes and emotional capacities, that there is a lot that you simply cannot empathize with or understand experientially . But, you but you might try to have humility and gratitude that you have not suffered this way. Often people diminish difficulty until they themselves experience it, then they are humbled. Perhaps you will experience something in yourself that baffles and confounds you and causes you great suffering someday and develop deeper empathy for this. If you think of an infant who loses the impulse to cry because it does not get a response, an INFANT mind you, you will have a glimpse of what shaped an avoidant. Imagine an infant or young child subjected to an environment where they felt terror and abandonment and need (for survival) at the same time, these conditioned shaped the nervous system of a fearful avoidant. You are ignorant and sound a little self righteous, and that can be understood and forgiven just as an attachment dysfunction in another can be understood and forgiven. I understand and forgive you for your ignorance, and I also am able to empathize with how you've been impacted by another person's suffering. You may be harmful to others in ways you do not understand or have awareness of, even if you are "secure". Everyone on this planet suffers losses and disappointment and pain; and you have. Be thankful that you have not felt the pain of what those with insecure attachment do. It can be very desolate and hopeless on the inside, your experience of it on the outside is only one perspective. You are free to move on and heal much easier than an insecurely attached person can- neuroscience confirms the difficulty. You don't have to change an entire lifetime of unconscious patterns and responses. They do. And they only have the brain they were born with and which was shaped by early trauma to even become aware of it with- it's more difficult than you may realize. There are internal defense mechanisms that are hardwired in them to obstruct this- it's no small thing to heal this all up. I speak from experience. If you feel bitter or wish to understand more fully try some research, into the deep psychology and physiology of it. Just a suggestion if you'd like to have a better understanding. It seems like you didn’t read my post throughly, because nowhere in there did I criticize insecure attachers for the feelings that they have. I criticized them for having those feelings and being that a lot of people are social and talk to others (introverted or not) they can see that a lot of other people don’t just fall out of love with their partners or feel scared of relationships or just feel absolutely nothing for their partner out of the blue. Being that you compare your experience of not feeling any love for your partner one day and felt the world for them the next to other people’s experiences who don’t, you can look at yourself and go “why do I do this” “why do I feel this way” Then you can simply do a google search of “ I fell out of love with my partner overnight” or something like that and you’re bound to come across attachment theory. Where this was no way as easy pre-internet. I feel that I’m a pretty self-aware person. Empathy is not one of my strong suites as I can understand logically why someone feels one way, but have a difficulty sharing those feelings unless I’m feeling them personally. So by the definition of empathy, I have it half-way down. It seems like you’re whole response was attacking something I never even stated. Nor did I EVER say they could just fix it instantly. I know it takes years and hard work. Again, you’re discussing things I never even said. The only thing I criticized insecure attachers for is their lack of self-awareness when you can easily compare your extreme emotions like feeling nothing for your partner of 5 years to other people and logically go “There’s probably something wrong with me considering there’s a ton of people I know who didn’t just wake up one day and feel nothing for their partner”
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happy
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Post by happy on May 13, 2019 3:54:39 GMT
The problem is that experience is subjective - it's easy as an observer to be critical of another person's behaviour but walk a mile in their shoes - or with their genes and upbringing and suddenly life takes on a whole new reality. The point is that most behaviour in relationships is old stuff - it's driven by subconscious conditioning rather than malicious hurtful premeditated intent. Feelings in the moment equate to an individuals reality and in all honesty certainly in the Western society where I live, we are constantly sold the story that love equates to passion and fireworks rather than a choice. If relationships are terrifying for whatever reason - and often the fear is so far below the surface as to be not consciously recognisable, then what incentive is their to look at attachment? Most people don't have the background or self awareness and support to dig into these intensely painful and personal stories. I have to say the first post came across as judgemental and unkind - it's like asking why someone can't stop drinking when it's harming their health, or smoking or overeating or whatever. Easier said than done. Again, you putting words in my mouth. I never criticized them for their feelings. I criticized them for not being aware that their feelings aren’t normal and being that we have extremely access to informations you can do a simple google search about your predicament like falling out of love with your partner overnight and your bound to come across attachment theory. Never did I say it was malicious intent. I also think people over play the media thing. If you talk to married people they also say love isn’t like the movies. We’re people with free will and an ability to think, the media didn’t make you pick that relationship or to leave it. You did. It may be a good point that the person may be very emotionally handicapped and can’t even classify the emotion to understand, they just know it’s not good. But then again, if your partner is great, (blah blah blah) they’re logically a great partner and you know anyone would be lucky to have them, but you just don’t “feel that spark”. You can then do a simple google search and you’re bound to come across attachment theory. Again, I never stated that they could fix it or have the means to fix it. All I’m saying is becoming aware of their insecure attachment style and that the way they navigate relationships isn’t healthy or normal. Again, nor did I say it was easy to fix in response to your alcohol analogy. All I said is becoming aware of their problem and that it’s not healthy or normal. And then “starting to make strides” towards healing. It seems everybody that was offended by this post didn’t actually attack the post but attacked nothing that I actually said. My whole post was simply about having easy access to information(a.k.a the internet) seeing a pattern in your relationships and comparing it to others in the world. Seeing that yours is different, then doing a simple google search of something like “fell out of love with partner overnight” and you’re bound to coming across attachment theory and then making strides towards healing. Nowhere did I EVER say they’re stupid for having those feelings. That they could fix it themselves. That it was easy to fix. Nor did I say it was malicious intent. I think people need to actually read what I write and not respond tho things I never said.
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