happy
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Post by happy on May 13, 2019 3:59:03 GMT
Please consider, if you have not had the experience of having an attachment injury that shaped the "wiring" of your very nervous system and therefore your cognitive processes and emotional capacities, that there is a lot that you simply cannot empathize with or understand experientially . But, you but you might try to have humility and gratitude that you have not suffered this way. Often people diminish difficulty until they themselves experience it, then they are humbled. Perhaps you will experience something in yourself that baffles and confounds you and causes you great suffering someday and develop deeper empathy for this. If you think of an infant who loses the impulse to cry because it does not get a response, an INFANT mind you, you will have a glimpse of what shaped an avoidant. Imagine an infant or young child subjected to an environment where they felt terror and abandonment and need (for survival) at the same time, these conditioned shaped the nervous system of a fearful avoidant. You are ignorant and sound a little self righteous, and that can be understood and forgiven just as an attachment dysfunction in another can be understood and forgiven. I understand and forgive you for your ignorance, and I also am able to empathize with how you've been impacted by another person's suffering. You may be harmful to others in ways you do not understand or have awareness of, even if you are "secure". Everyone on this planet suffers losses and disappointment and pain; and you have. Be thankful that you have not felt the pain of what those with insecure attachment do. It can be very desolate and hopeless on the inside, your experience of it on the outside is only one perspective. You are free to move on and heal much easier than an insecurely attached person can- neuroscience confirms the difficulty. You don't have to change an entire lifetime of unconscious patterns and responses. They do. And they only have the brain they were born with and which was shaped by early trauma to even become aware of it with- it's more difficult than you may realize. There are internal defense mechanisms that are hardwired in them to obstruct this- it's no small thing to heal this all up. I speak from experience. If you feel bitter or wish to understand more fully try some research, into the deep psychology and physiology of it. Just a suggestion if you'd like to have a better understanding. Can you also explain how I’m ignorant and self-righteous? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 4:09:05 GMT
Sure!
From the online dictionary:
ignorant: lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing.
self-righteous: convinced of one's own righteousness, especially in contrast with the actions and beliefs of others.
I'm posting from my phone and lack the editing capability that would enable me to bold your specific quotes that led me to the conclusion that you sound, to me, to be ignorant of the nature of attachment issues , and that you also sound self-righteous in your comparison between your own self described way of being and that of the people you came here to "rant" about.
If you read your comments carefully you might be able to pick out a couple of things you wrote that support my opinion, but it's just an opinion so don't lose sleep over it. I'm sure there is room to disagree but you did ask for feedback.
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happy
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Post by happy on May 13, 2019 4:17:40 GMT
Sure! From the online dictionary: ignorant: lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing. self-righteous: convinced of one's own righteousness, especially in contrast with the actions and beliefs of others. I'm posting from my phone and lack the editing capability that would enable me to bold your specific quotes that led me to the conclusion that you sound, to me, to be ignorant of the nature of attachment issues , and that you also sound self-righteous in your comparison between your own self described way of being and that of the people you came here to "rant" about. If you read your comments carefully you might be able to pick out a couple of things you wrote that support my opinion, but it's just an opinion so don't lose sleep over it. I'm sure there is room to disagree but you did ask for feedback. Well no, I can’t pick out the things that to you, made me sound ignorant and self righteous because if I did I would just address them and not ask you. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 4:18:52 GMT
Definition of rant attached, your word not mine but definitely coming across in a self righteous way, which, considering the title of the thread, may be your intention. You're allowed, of course! But feedback might not be ask you'd like.  p |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 4:21:26 GMT
Well, I apologize but I'll have to come back later and provide more feedback if you'd like. Maybe sit with it while, just read the other comments that provide another perspective carefully and you might gain another perspective of your own posting.
I'm off to work!
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happy
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Post by happy on May 13, 2019 4:39:12 GMT
Definition of rant attached, your word not mine but definitely coming across in a self righteous way, which, considering the title of the thread, may be your intention. You're allowed, of course! But feedback might not be ask you'd like. View Attachmentp Well I now realize that the title comes across as self-righteous. But why don’t we take a step back, is being self-righteous always wrong? I don’t think so. Would you disagree with me that falling out of love with your partner overnight is a good thing (assuming they’re a good partner) I’m sure neither the partner nor the person falling out love really enjoys that experience. Maybe some don’t care or do enjoy falling out of love, but I’d argue that a large majority don’t enjoy that experience. Now on to the actual post and away from just the title. My post was strictly about self-awareness. Never did I say that they could just heal their trauma, that they have the means to heal their trauma, that their feelings were stupid. All I said (summed up) was we have easy access to information (the internet) and being that we compare ourselves to some to degree to others around us, we could see that falling out of love overnight is very normal and could do a simple google search like “fell out of love overnight” and you’re bound to come across attachment theory. Then, you can MAKE STRIDES towards healings. Would you say self-awareness and introspection is wrong for any person on this planet. I believe nothing is right or wrong, but right or wrong for you individually. IMO, I don’t think self awareness or having the ability to label emotions or understand your emotions in anyway is wrong for ANYONE on this planet. So, I’m not sure what you’re referring to as “my way” to find righteous. But in my post it clearly refers to the logical ability to just figure out that “falling out of love with your partner overnight” isn’t normal nor would I say it’s healthy after you escape the relationships that made you form an insecure attachment style. I never said they shouldn’t be feeling those emotions because I understand why they fall out of love or some other extreme emotion of that sort. So if I’m being self-righteous here, what’s wrong with that? Maybe I’m not seeing something and you can explain that. But the way you seemed to use self-righteous (an insult) I don’t see a problem with it. It’s like if I was berating someone for shooting puppies and the person who is shooting the puppies calling me self righteous as if it’s a bad thing to not shoot puppies. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 5:17:57 GMT
happy I had time to read your follow up posts and really, you're kind of belligerent haha! You can look that up and I won't bother quoting except for later on, I'll use your term "fucking insane." If it were easy to question or understand in a logical way, for the person who is affected by attachment issues, then they would do it. You don't understand why they don't and people here tried to emphasize changes in the brain and conditioning that limit their capacity to do so. You don't seem to accept that, and no one will try to force you to. You are absolutely allowed to be self righteous (for the second time) and if you stand by it then be okay with it being pointed out. It isn't necessarily an insult, it's an observation. So, we agree, it seems. You're self righteous and so what? We can agree and leave it at that. Anyway, to use your vernacular, it's "fucking insane" if you can't understand where we are coming from. Like it's "fucking insane" that others don't understand what you think they ought. You admit you don't have the empathy for it, so I can understand the limits of your ability to grasp this. Maybe in the same way you can understand that someone else may lack something that would help them get it. I'd add that there are a few logical fallacies in your post and it's not worthwhile in my case to unpack this with you further. However, there are bound to be other people here or elsewhere on the net that will bat it around with you. Good luck!
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Post by kranichangel on May 13, 2019 7:41:44 GMT
Definition of rant attached, your word not mine but definitely coming across in a self righteous way, which, considering the title of the thread, may be your intention. You're allowed, of course! But feedback might not be ask you'd like. p Well I now realize that the title comes across as self-righteous. But why don’t we take a step back, is being self-righteous always wrong? I don’t think so. Would you disagree with me that falling out of love with your partner overnight is a good thing (assuming they’re a good partner) I’m sure neither the partner nor the person falling out love really enjoys that experience. Maybe some don’t care or do enjoy falling out of love, but I’d argue that a large majority don’t enjoy that experience. Now on to the actual post and away from just the title. My post was strictly about self-awareness. Never did I say that they could just heal their trauma, that they have the means to heal their trauma, that their feelings were stupid. All I said (summed up) was we have easy access to information (the internet) and being that we compare ourselves to some to degree to others around us, we could see that falling out of love overnight is very normal and could do a simple google search like “fell out of love overnight” and you’re bound to come across attachment theory. Then, you can MAKE STRIDES towards healings. Would you say self-awareness and introspection is wrong for any person on this planet. I believe nothing is right or wrong, but right or wrong for you individually. IMO, I don’t think self awareness or having the ability to label emotions or understand your emotions in anyway is wrong for ANYONE on this planet. So, I’m not sure what you’re referring to as “my way” to find righteous. But in my post it clearly refers to the logical ability to just figure out that “falling out of love with your partner overnight” isn’t normal nor would I say it’s healthy after you escape the relationships that made you form an insecure attachment style. I never said they shouldn’t be feeling those emotions because I understand why they fall out of love or some other extreme emotion of that sort. So if I’m being self-righteous here, what’s wrong with that? Maybe I’m not seeing something and you can explain that. But the way you seemed to use self-righteous (an insult) I don’t see a problem with it. It’s like if I was berating someone for shooting puppies and the person who is shooting the puppies calling me self righteous as if it’s a bad thing to not shoot puppies. ...but how do you know that not many insecurely attached people actually DO use google to, using your example, type in a google search "fell out of love over night" etc? Many people wonder why they act the ways they do or feel the ways they do, but that does not mean they are at the point in their life to change that or even want to start their healing journey. You have to understand, healing insecure attachment involves VERY painful processes, and not everyone is at every stage in their life, equipped and ready to begin this journey. We all heal in our own time, be it from attachment wounds or other traumas (and every single one of us has some sort of trauma or wound we can work on healing). Also, part of a wounded attachment system can also involve that a person might be incapable to even perceive that there is something "wrong" with them. If it truly was that easy, we could also say, why are there so many obese people in this day and age where we have access to all information needed to change that? Or why are there so many suicidal people, or depressed people, if we have so many resources ...? It is not that simple. Also, from one of your previous posts I wonder if you were serious about "just wanting to have sex" with this girl who quite obviously suffers from some form of attachment trauma - english is not my first language, son not sure if I misunderstood, but if that is the case, I´d say you have some things to work on as well, because in my understanding a securely attached, regulated person will not use an obviously traumatised person to merely satisfy their physical needs, thus potentially creating more pain for said person, especially if that person has shown no obvious signs that they as well, are interested and open to a merely physical relationship for sex... |
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Post by mrob on May 13, 2019 12:17:18 GMT
My goodness, this sort of blind subjectivity causes wars!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 12:48:41 GMT
My goodness, this sort of blind subjectivity causes wars!! And maybe even BREAKUPS! I wonder, is OP's approach in the thread an example of protest behavior? I have read about AP rejection reaction being described as "impotent rage" that lacks empathy or logic and reason, and relies purely on emotional subjectivity to vilify the one who is perceived as the abandoner. I think it was an article of Jeb's that actually used that term. I am unable to gauge the emotional temp based solely on written words, but another AP might be able to pick up on the feel of it and identity protest behavior in the OP's posting. I'm just curious, it's all a learning experience and we are all here asking questions so there's mine. |
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Post by faithopelove on May 14, 2019 3:06:04 GMT
My goodness, this sort of blind subjectivity causes wars!! And maybe even BREAKUPS! I wonder, is OP's approach in the thread an example of protest behavior? I have read about AP rejection reaction being described as "impotent rage" that lacks empathy or logic and reason, and relies purely on emotional subjectivity to vilify the one who is perceived as the abandoner. I think it was an article of Jeb's that actually used that term. I am unable to gauge the emotional temp based solely on written words, but another AP might be able to pick up on the feel of it and identity protest behavior in the OP's posting. I'm just curious, it's all a learning experience and we are all here asking questions so there's mine. @sherry - I only read the last few posts and not the whole strand but I can tell you as an AP that I only exhibit protest behavior with a romantic partner when fear of abandonment is triggered- I don’t go into protest reactivity behavior with a casual person online. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 11:59:15 GMT
Thanks faithopelove, I wasn't really thinking of OP protesting about anything experienced here, I was wondering if protest behavior directed at an abandoning person IRL spilled over into the original post and subsequent posts. So, it looked to me like all the things that would have been said to an abandoning partner were said here. |
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Post by epicgum on May 14, 2019 14:05:14 GMT
happyI think in my experience there is a lot of internal emotional confusion and then also a lot of guilt for not being able to supply the same level of emotions. In terms of the 6 month window. I think that makes a lot of sense just because of the "new relationship energy" hormones and such, begin to die down at that point. I think for me, it also just took/takes me a very very very long time to trust and open up, so it's not like it is all done on the first couple months. In terms of the "stringing along" I lived in a bit of denial that my partner did not have those feelings for me, and I did get upset if they were ever expressed.
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Post by tnr9 on May 15, 2019 1:56:10 GMT
There’s not a right place to post this I don’t think, so I’m just gonna put it here because it usually has to do with avoidants/ insecure attachment styles. Something I have a hard time wrapping my mind around is how people go through their lives running through relationships where their partners treat them great the relationship is great, but either over-night fall out of love with their partner or just never develop feelings for them. Or they have those few partners where they treated them like shit, but fell deeply in love with them (rollercoaster relationship). What I can’t wrap my head around is how they can go through their whole life (especially now) with all this easy access to information wondering why they never fall for people who treat them well and who are going to be great partners & end up chalking up their insecure attachment styles (usually this is what it is... I’d say) to “the stars just not aligning”. Like love is this metaphysical thing. I guess what I’m frustrated about is looking at people seeing obvious patterns in their life, but being totally blind to it and it drives me fucking nuts and how they never make strides to really figure out what’s going on and just say that “you can’t force love”. I get there is an aspect to attachment where you’re not going to be attracted to everybody (attractive & mentally health person or not) but what I’m primarily speaking about is people who have been dating someone for 6+ months (already decided they’re attractive and enjoy their company) and can now only figure out that they don’t love/like the person. I’ve never been in a predicament where I’ve just fallen out of love with someone or taken me MONTHS to figure out whether I fancy a person or not. (I am secure attachment so that probably why) It does take longer to figure out if I want a relationship with the person because I think logistics are more important if you’re looking for a long-term relationship, rather than just how they make you feel I know I may sound really harsh in this post, but they say we’re the most judgmental of the things we don’t want to see in ourselves. I really value not making mistakes, but even more so, not making the same one twice. Let me know your thoughts:) A bit of a different direction...but your line of questions made me think about this op ed. www.nytimes.com/2016/05/29/opinion/sunday/why-you-will-marry-the-wrong-person.htmlKatie |
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Post by mrob on May 15, 2019 6:29:18 GMT
happyI think in my experience there is a lot of internal emotional confusion and then also a lot of guilt for not being able to supply the same level of emotions. In terms of the 6 month window. I think that makes a lot of sense just because of the "new relationship energy" hormones and such, begin to die down at that point. I think for me, it also just took/takes me a very very very long time to trust and open up, so it's not like it is all done on the first couple months. In terms of the "stringing along" I lived in a bit of denial that my partner did not have those feelings for me, and I did get upset if they were ever expressed. Sometimes it takes that long for our best behaviour to disappear and the more authentic person to emerge. This has happened to me, and I’ve only recently had the ability to say “no, that’s not for me.” tnr9, brilliant article. |
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