rhz
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by rhz on Jul 16, 2019 18:16:15 GMT
Hello.
This is my first post here. I'm a middle-aged straight guy, and the attachment style tests I have done place me somewhere between secure and anxious.
I tend to find myself in unsuccessful relationships with avoidants. Things are improving in that I've got my radar up for avoidant behavior and have ended problematic relationships earlier than in the past. Of course, I'd love to find a secure partner. One step toward that is early identification of attachment style in the dating process. What should I be on the lookout for?
--I have found that lack of prompt replies to texts/calls/emails can be a decent indicator of avoidance. "Prompt" depends on the context, but usually spans a couple of hours to a day. Stuff sometimes comes up that prevents all of us from answering promptly, but if it's the pattern to look out for.
--Lack of initiating interactions -- always waiting for me to initiate contact.
--Lack of willingness/comfort talking about personal things. Resistance to vulnerability.
--Finding out how they handled disagreements with their ex's is another good one.
--Having them do an attachment style test in an option.
I have heard the advice that we should ask our partners for what we need and see what happens. However, I'm not sure how appropriate that is in the first couple of weeks of the interaction.
So, what other suggestions would you make to someone anxiously-attached seeking to identify avoidant types early?
Thank you!
rhz
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Post by anne12 on Jul 16, 2019 18:20:23 GMT
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Post by alexandra on Jul 16, 2019 18:37:54 GMT
Hi rhz, welcome. That's a good list. I also think the biggest thing with any insecure type is words and actions not quite lining up. In general, feeling triggered slightly anxious (with reason, not your own projections) and feeling like you're walking on eggshells or not sure where you stand are also indicators. I will say that I used to worry about this. If only I could filter people out early, if only someone else more secure could help me filter out bad matches, if only I'm more vigilant in seeing red flags, if only if only... and what I found was the only way to really not worry about this is to focus on yourself and finishing your own healing journey to secure. It sounds too good to be true, maybe, but it is true. I got hypervigilant about this when I was AP and basically only dated avoidants and couldn't figure out why that was happening and what was going on, and all that relationship pain scared me in regards to why did I only choose and attract those partners. As soon as I fully crossed over the AP border and started testing secure, my thought patterns actually totally changed in general. Not when I was on the boundary between the two -- only after I was firmly over it. And what happened from there is 1. If someone is insecure and not meeting my needs, I can just tell early on, even though I also am very direct and straightforward about communicating them now as well (and have faith in myself that I can communicate them in a reasonable way that won't "scare away" emotionally healthy folks) 2. I quickly recognize all the sparks and dynamics I felt with avoidants, because I still feel those because it's a type of nervous system activation, and I'm looking for something stable and secure so it's not really an attractive turn on to feel that way anymore. So the whole, asking for what you want and seeing how the partner responds yes, is a good gauge, but the reason it is is because you feel secure enough and trust enough in yourself that you know you won't fall apart if you get an answer you don't like or want, and that you know you can meet a better match another day if this one is incompatible. No scarcity mentality, even though you value people as individuals. Now I just want to go slowly the first several dates and actually start getting to know the person without projecting into the gaps of not knowing them yet (very easy for AP to idealize new partners by doing that), and I don't worry anymore about if I'm going to get blindsided by insecure attachment. I'm just thinking about, do I like this person, are they consistent, and are we life compatible? Sometimes I still date insecures, I just end things a lot earlier if we hit an impasse in regards to what we both want in a relationship.
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Post by happyidiot on Jul 18, 2019 7:26:15 GMT
Hi rhz , welcome. That's a good list. I also think the biggest thing with any insecure type is words and actions not quite lining up. In general, feeling triggered slightly anxious (with reason, not your own projections) and feeling like you're walking on eggshells or not sure where you stand are also indicators. I will say that I used to worry about this. If only I could filter people out early, if only someone else more secure could help me filter out bad matches, if only I'm more vigilant in seeing red flags, if only if only... and what I found was the only way to really not worry about this is to focus on yourself and finishing your own healing journey to secure. It sounds too good to be true, maybe, but it is true. I got hypervigilant about this when I was AP and basically only dated avoidants and couldn't figure out why that was happening and what was going on, and all that relationship pain scared me in regards to why did I only choose and attract those partners. As soon as I fully crossed over the AP border and started testing secure, my thought patterns actually totally changed in general. Not when I was on the boundary between the two -- only after I was firmly over it. And what happened from there is 1. If someone is insecure and not meeting my needs, I can just tell early on, even though I also am very direct and straightforward about communicating them now as well (and have faith in myself that I can communicate them in a reasonable way that won't "scare away" emotionally healthy folks) 2. I quickly recognize all the sparks and dynamics I felt with avoidants, because I still feel those because it's a type of nervous system activation, and I'm looking for something stable and secure so it's not really an attractive turn on to feel that way anymore. So the whole, asking for what you want and seeing how the partner responds yes, is a good gauge, but the reason it is is because you feel secure enough and trust enough in yourself that you know you won't fall apart if you get an answer you don't like or want, and that you know you can meet a better match another day if this one is incompatible. No scarcity mentality, even though you value people as individuals. Now I just want to go slowly the first several dates and actually start getting to know the person without projecting into the gaps of not knowing them yet (very easy for AP to idealize new partners by doing that), and I don't worry anymore about if I'm going to get blindsided by insecure attachment. I'm just thinking about, do I like this person, are they consistent, and are we life compatible? Sometimes I still date insecures, I just end things a lot earlier if we hit an impasse in regards to what we both want in a relationship. This. After I was blindsided by someone suddenly dumping me and realized I historically had been drawn to avoidants, at first I thought maybe I could protect myself if I got really good at figuring out if someone was avoidant early on and steered clear of them. As I worked on becoming more secure I started to realize that what mattered the most was actually changing myself and my thinking so that I could handle things better, so that it wouldn't matter nearly as much what someone else's attachment style was. I now don't obsess about figuring out what it is if it isn't obvious. I'm still not even too sure what my current boyfriend's attachment type is (and I'm starting to realize that everyone exhibits some characteristics of all the types and with quite a number of people their main type is just not clear). The biggest thing that helped was realizing that I'd be ok. Even if I inadvertently dated someone avoidant. I became more able to move on if someone isn't right for me. Not getting attached so quickly, and attachment not being such a desperate feeling of NEEDING to be with (and stay with) that person. Making wiser choices. Not chasing. Knowing better what I want and don't want and not ignoring giant red flags or dealbreakers just because I feel chemistry with someone. Realizing that the most important thing in a partner is not their attachment type but their willingness to put effort into our relationship and desire to make things work. Learning how to communicate my needs and feelings. Remembering someone isn't right for me if me just being open and having needs scares them away. Knowing that someone avoiding me doesn't say anything about my worth.
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rhz
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by rhz on Jul 18, 2019 15:07:09 GMT
Thanks for these great responses. They make a lot of sense.
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Post by hannah99 on Jul 18, 2019 20:10:17 GMT
A also think avoidant sometimes don't seem avoidant at all in the beginning. My first clue was 9 months in when he dumped me a few days after telling me he loved me for the first time...
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Post by faithopelove on Jul 18, 2019 22:12:55 GMT
A also think avoidant sometimes don't seem avoidant at all in the beginning. My first clue was 9 months in when he dumped me a few days after telling me he loved me for the first time... hannah - Yes, exactly! We were 6 months in before he distanced and shut down. Before that he was the dream boyfriend. They want the relationship but can’t handle the closeness. So, take it slow when dating the first year....time is the best test.
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Post by happyidiot on Jul 19, 2019 3:32:20 GMT
A also think avoidant sometimes don't seem avoidant at all in the beginning. My first clue was 9 months in when he dumped me a few days after telling me he loved me for the first time... hannah - Yes, exactly! We were 6 months in before he distanced and shut down. Before that he was the dream boyfriend. They want the relationship but can’t handle the closeness. So, take it slow when dating the first year....time is the best test. I'm not 100% sure I agree about taking it slow. Why waste a year when you can find your answer in just a few months by going faster? I had an FA ex who suddenly dumped me soon after some–relatively minor in my opinion–steps/symbols that we were moving towards something a little more serious, and I truly believe he would have just suddenly dumped me at a later date if I hadn't scared him off then. Actually same with someone else I dated who was DA. And on the flipside, I (also FA) once dumped a guy I was dating after a few months, which was in part precipitated by him asking for things to progress a little quicker and wanting to go on a trip together, and if he had just been more patient and put zero pressure on me I still would have dumped him but I might have taken longer to do it. In my defense, I was not breaking up with him because I was scared of closeness/my feelings for him, there were legit mostly non-FA reasons. I am not convinced the answer is to just go ultra slowly and gently with FAs and maybe we won't get scared away, I kinda think maybe it's better to proceed at a normal pace and have normal expectations of things progressing, and if someone can't handle that and balks, then they simply aren't suitable for a committed relationship. Hell, sometimes I even wonder if it might be advantageous to proceed at a fast pace and get to know someone well fast, so that any problems rear their heads very early on...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 19:02:17 GMT
You cannot identify a DA in the early stages of dating.
DA's wear a mask at the beginning. They come on strong. They show full interest. Jumping in and getting carried away with the connection.
It's only after a few months when the novelty starts to wear off and quite naturally where a relationship should start to progress. They start running for the hills and shutting down. You start to see them for who they are.
The only thing about time is when they become aware the relationship is lasting much longer and heading deeper than they can handle and once they can't handlle it, they emotionally check out.
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Post by 8675309 on Jul 20, 2019 19:15:15 GMT
I swear I’m just going to ask them to take an attachment test! Lol
Avoidance is not so obvious in the beginning stages...
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Post by lovebunny on Jul 20, 2019 22:03:05 GMT
The FA that I dated for came off as very strong and secure at first. I noticed a couple potential red flags, like she said she'd never loved either of her ex girlfriends, and hadn't been in a relationship in 5 years and wasn't looking, but then I thought that could be circumstantial. She courted me with confidence. In fact, I remember feeling so grateful because finally, someone seemed to be "meeting" me emotionally, and I thought, yay, no more roller coaster relationships! She texted me frequently, she wanted to spend time with me, etc.. But that was before we were "girlfriends."
When I brought up the fact that we seemed to be headed that way, after 3 months of spending every night together, that's when I got my first big red flag when she said she didn't want to be in a relationship, so she needed to walk away.
Of course, she cycled back a couple of days later. I was already aware of attachment theory, and understood what was happening, but wanted to try one more time. Eventually, after 8 1/2 months of practically living together, we had one stressful week where our AP-FA dance broke out full swing, and she dumped me again. The end.
I agree with the above comments, only time fully reveals this stuff. We're all on our best behavior and most optimistic at the beginning of a relationship, hard to know for sure what's going on with people until you've really been around them a while.
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Post by faithopelove on Jul 21, 2019 2:43:47 GMT
hannah - Yes, exactly! We were 6 months in before he distanced and shut down. Before that he was the dream boyfriend. They want the relationship but can’t handle the closeness. So, take it slow when dating the first year....time is the best test. I'm not 100% sure I agree about taking it slow. Why waste a year when you can find your answer in just a few months by going faster? I had an FA ex who suddenly dumped me soon after some–relatively minor in my opinion–steps/symbols that we were moving towards something a little more serious, and I truly believe he would have just suddenly dumped me at a later date if I hadn't scared him off then. Actually same with someone else I dated who was DA. And on the flipside, I (also FA) once dumped a guy I was dating after a few months, which was in part precipitated by him asking for things to progress a little quicker and wanting to go on a trip together, and if he had just been more patient and put zero pressure on me I still would have dumped him but I might have taken longer to do it. In my defense, I was not breaking up with him because I was scared of closeness/my feelings for him, there were legit mostly non-FA reasons. I am not convinced the answer is to just go ultra slowly and gently with FAs and maybe we won't get scared away, I kinda think maybe it's better to proceed at a normal pace and have normal expectations of things progressing, and if someone can't handle that and balks, then they simply aren't suitable for a committed relationship. Hell, sometimes I even wonder if it might be advantageous to proceed at a fast pace and get to know someone well fast, so that any problems rear their heads very early on... happyidiot - I hear you, avoidants get scared sooner or later, but I’d take it slow from now on in order to protect myself. If things proceed quickly and I fall for this person, only to find he’ll up and run, then I’m left nursing a broken heart. If I progress more slowly I’ll see the signs and not have given my heart over to him yet. After all I’ve experienced with my last relationship, I could never rush in again.
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Post by faithopelove on Jul 21, 2019 4:51:03 GMT
You cannot identify a DA in the early stages of dating. DA's wear a mask at the beginning. They come on strong. They show full interest. Jumping in and getting carried away with the connection. It's only after a few months when the novelty starts to wear off and quite naturally where a relationship should start to progress. They start running for the hills and shutting down. You start to see them for who they are. The only thing about time is when they become aware the relationship is lasting much longer and heading deeper than they can handle and once they can't handlle it, they emotionally check out. @thatright- Yes, this was my experience with a DA. The idea of a relationship is alluring but sustaining it is another matter completely. Feels a lot like bait and switch.
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Post by toorational on Jul 22, 2019 15:08:11 GMT
I have to agree with lots that have been said here. It's hard to identify a DA in the early stages. For me it's only after 1 ½ years that some DA behavior manifested with my GF. But there are still some red flags to look out for. The relationship with their parents and the way they were raised is a big one I think. In my GF case, her mother really valued independence in her children and pushed them not to rely on the mother for emotional support and be self-reliant instead. For example, if my GF and her siblings did something dangerous, her mom often said something like "If someone gets hurt, I'll hit them again where it hurts". In other words, you're being reckless and don't count on me to soothe you if you get hurt, you'll be on your own.
That alone obviously does not make someone a bad partner in a relationship so this needs to be taken with a grain of salt. But high independence is nevertheless one of the characteristics of DAs.
Previous relationships is also an indicator. How long were they? Were they successful relationships, during a few years at least? Secures are more likely to have had previous successful long term relationships.
There are also books specifically on identifying a compatible partner (attachment wise) during dating.
Just my 2 ¢.
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Post by alexandra on Jul 22, 2019 17:39:09 GMT
I'm going to disagree you can't identify DAs at the beginning, because I've never dated DAs who were emotionally all-in and initiating and flipped later on. And I've dated a lot of them! Anyone I've dated like that was FA, because they want to be in relationships more, at first, until they get scared. DAs in my experience need more time and coaxing and will insert distance right from the beginning, as they are less interested in pursuing relationships for the sake of not being single, so the progression is based on more one-sided initiation as a result. At this point in my experience, I think both show early red flags, but since attachment style is a spectrum, it's possible I'm speaking about more entrenched and deeply unaware avoidants, and not the ones who are relatively more secure.
But what I actually believe is it's easy if you are AP or more anxiously-styled FA to project idealization on partners at the beginning, to fill in the gaps on your own before you really know someone, and miss the indicators. Which is one of the reasons it's better to work on your own security then to be vigilant for red flags, as it will become obvious more naturally if someone is incompatible as you become more secure.
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