|
Post by nyc718 on Sept 13, 2019 12:01:31 GMT
Any advice on how to approach attachment styles to romantic partner who has done no work on themselves, ever? I have been in therapy for most of my life and I also have ramped up the dealing with attachment styles in my therapy. Any advice on how to approach it with a Fearful Avoidant?
When we are together we are as close to being secure as I have known in the past being in a secure relationship - we are open, affectionate, have great sex, share. It's when we are apart that I feel like we really disconnect. I leave him alone mostly and let him reach out to me, but I would like our patterns to eventually change to a more secure pattern, and of course, I know he would need a lot of time to digest all this information. Any tips would be appreciated, thanks!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 23:17:02 GMT
This is my current stance: does he want to change or improve things? If he does not, then I'd leave him alone - either take it as it is or leave him. If I stay, I would share with him also my own experiences, insights, and learnings about myself from therapy and ask him what he thinks, and see how he reacts to it. Any sign of resistance and rejection of these discussions will be a huge red flag for me. I would also just ask him if he feels disconnected when we are apart, and have a discussion around that first, before talking about attachment styles.
|
|
|
Post by 8675309 on Sept 30, 2019 10:52:24 GMT
I brought up attachment by what I learned and how its changed/helped me, that led into talking about him. I asked him first if we could talk about something.
He was receptive but went in one ear and out the other more or less. He has not bothered to even look into it. Hes not ready to face it yet. He knows it exists now, maybe one day he will get there or he will keep living on the insanity wheel of repeated failed relationships. Thats on him.
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Sept 30, 2019 12:34:50 GMT
So...I think attachment theory is a very delicate matter for all insecure attachments. It is really important to remember that if the other person has an FA attachment style....that person will have gone through some really painful forms of rejection by his/her parent(s). Going into a conversation trying to “help” that person can look like rejection of another form. I think instead of approaching this matter as...there is something really wrong with you that I can help you to see...I think the best approach is to simply talk about your own journey and invite the other person to look into it. Respecting boundaries and autonomy is important for anyone....so after talking about...let the other person decide whether it is something he/she wants to explore.
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Oct 1, 2019 14:59:22 GMT
So...I think attachment theory is a very delicate matter for all insecure attachments. It is really important to remember that if the other person has an FA attachment style....that person will have gone through some really painful forms of rejection by his/her parent(s). Going into a conversation trying to “help” that person can look like rejection of another form. I think instead of approaching this matter as...there is something really wrong with you that I can help you to see...I think the best approach is to simply talk about your own journey and invite the other person to look into it. Respecting boundaries and autonomy is important for anyone....so after talking about...let the other person decide whether it is something he/she wants to explore. Presume as a secure, who has bothered to look into this, that I can ask "Hey are you into self development? Life coaching etc"? and I've found this really interesting....and link to the respective Jeb Kinnison etc sites? It is exceedingly difficult. I think the only thing you can do is be soft, gentle as possible, and they take it or leave it. Not force it in their face and be blunt, definitely bound for failure. Could I mention her statements to me, I listed above, and 3rd party it up, validate her emotions, the anxiety she was feeling making those statements, and sort of say, look obviously you've been really hurt in the past by those closest to you, and I could have been more mindful with my language when we were together, to make you understand that your actions can hurt from the other side, and that I know she didn't mean it? Along those lines? Appreciate your help on the matter, as I truly do want to help this girl, she is nice, did very nice gestures (baked me things and brought it around etc), a little bit "people pleasing" but still a nice gesture, she didn't have to do it. But she is very touchy and hypervigilant. She mentioned her father was very hard, particularly on the brother, but I presume all of them. , and she has been divorced and the husband "knows how to get to her", so he is taking full advantage of her weaknesses and clearly taunting her a lot the past 6 years The thing is...you are thinking like a secure.....which is all well and good when interacting with another secure...but if you know she is insecure...it really doesn’t matter which type.....then the first and very best thing you can do is simply accept her for who she is...she probably hadn’t experienced that before. But it has to be with no “agenda”. There is no rushing healing and what is seen as “help” by one person, can be seen as “trying to change”, “not accepting” by the other person. Use your desire to help her in a different way....by showing her that she is ok as she is....that you are there for her and you don’t need her to change....let her be the one who reveals the area she wants to work on and let her ask for assistance.
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Oct 1, 2019 15:35:46 GMT
I've "gotten through" to two FAs. One was a female friend of a few years who kept having relationship issues and asked me my opinion. That got us talking about attachment theory (I knew she was avoidant, didn't know which kind). She ended up researching it on her own, and a couple months later enthusiastically told me it answered questions she'd had for decades for the first time ever, and she spent the next six months pouring over it and working on what turned out to be FA. She told me her life and platonic relationships improved a lot, I certainly noticed her reliability improved a lot, and she was going to start dating again to see if dating would trigger her less after starting the attachment work. I don't know if it did or didn't, because she stopped talking to me 9 months ago and I have zero idea why. I think I might have triggered her by talking about applying for jobs in a different city, so she abandoned me before I could possibly abandon her.
The second was a guy I was seeing for a few months and really liked, but he kept me at arm's length. Actions were that he really liked me, but he kept minimizing our "situationship", so we never even became official... and it was pretty clear to me that it was most likely him having an FA style. I walked away as a result, which was not easy. But when I did, he brought up attachment theory and said he was going to throw himself into researching it and learning about it. I'd mentioned it to him once in the context of a relationship he had with a family member that he was unhappy with and wanted to change. I did NOT mention it in a romantic context or having anything to do with us. I said good, I hoped he would look into it. I don't know if he did or not, or if it was a last-ditch effort to try to convince me not to end things romantically, but even though I said I wanted to stay friends and meant it, he's basically shut me out of his life the last several months and never reached out to me again.
My long term FA ex who I directly discussed attachment styles with in the context of our relationship was nothing but totally defensive and closed off to hearing about it. Even a year later, as we tried to be just friends, he misinterpreted something I said about an FA partner of a mutual friend and got SUPER defensive and snippy. He still feels my bringing up attachment theory at all, even though it was calm and delicate, means I don't completely accept him. I actually think it's projection from him being unhappy with himself, because at this point I do completely accept him as FA who will probably never change and am cool with friendship but do not want to ever reconcile romantically.
It depends on how unhappy the person is with their lives, how much you can depersonalize attachment theory if you're an attachment figure to them so they don't get too defensive to hear you, and where the person is in their life process ie open to self-development and growth. Even if they do hear you, it doesn't automatically mean them doing work will make them stick around securely. Sometimes, the change to becoming more secure changes your dynamics so much that you break apart anyway.
|
|
|
Post by dhali on Oct 1, 2019 21:08:16 GMT
The problem with this question is it’s an emotion issue without the other person making an emotional bid. Your invalidating them before they even open themselves up to you. The only acceptable time to do something like this is if they ask for help, or put out an emotional bid. And the only way to get receptivity is by validating their feelings first, and listening to them. Only then can you ASK them if they want feedback. Without that, you’re putting someone on the defensive.
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Oct 1, 2019 22:54:58 GMT
Your insight is so valuable! alexandra ! I think the defensive thing is key to point out as well. I think when you're an attachment figure to them it makes everything you say amplified and able to be taken in the wrong way much more easily. That's what I'm noticing from my very short term experience this year after learning about attachment theory. While you mean well and want them to heal, etc, they take it as an attack... which makes sense if you go back to core wounds. I think that then can further make them close off from you and others... so kind of setting them back even further. I wonder though if there's ever a point where they're like "Oh that person was really trying to help" or if it's all too unconscious or not able to be put together because of defense mechanisms. This is the problem with this attachment style, just so hypervigilant around statements, and regardless of how much you reassure, they still take things negatively and cannot trust at the core. I think all insecure attachment styles can be hyper vigilant around statements..not just those who have FA. I think it is important to remember that trust was broken in one form or another...so yes...rebuilding trust takes time.
|
|
|
Post by 8675309 on Oct 1, 2019 23:07:03 GMT
We also have to remember here there is nothing wrong with having an adult conversation, you dont have to tip toe just because they have issues. Adults just talk, these people are adults. They get defensive, its on them. As long as you're not attacking them or being mean. So much tip toeing here like these people are not adults.
Just like those want to baby them holding back when they are treating you like garbage. Dont want to offend them even though they are mean to me... Secures would call each other on their crap.
|
|
jules
Full Member
Posts: 142
|
Post by jules on Oct 2, 2019 0:09:38 GMT
We also have to remember here there is nothing wrong with having an adult conversation, you dont have to tip toe just because they have issues. Adults just talk, these people are adults. They get defensive, its on them. As long as you're not attacking them or being mean. So much tip toeing here like these people are not adults.
Just like those want to baby them holding back when they are treating you like garbage. Dont want to offend them even though they are mean to me... Secures would call each other on their crap.
This!! Great post. I laid it out factually, what I surmised of his relationship with his mother, and he said he couldn't disagree with me. I didn't pry. I was short and gentle. We did not get into it much. We had s lovely evening there after. Too close and comfy I am sure. It activated a deactivation (not immediately) which was prolonged by a bad cold in which there was radio silence for four days (never a thing!) We always text. We've been texting since but to be honest I need to pursue other avenues. I hope I put a name to his thing. He might have had a idea. Who knows? Secretive. I accept who he is. And I am accepting that hes not the man for me. I told him so. I didn't talk to him for a week after that. Unheard of. He kinda states/asked me when I mentioned attachment that it doesn't make him bad. I reassured him then and an additional time that no. Absolutely none of this makes him bad. That is a fundamental missing factor to the childhood for FAs. Blaming themselves for the awful they received. These individuals lack fundamental self esteem. He self talk stunk. I told him so. They need a good bit of bolstering but not too much. Over the summer he was I'll and I asked him one too many times of he was ok. He told me "you're gonna have to stop saying that " A tear, instantly escaped my eye and that was a big red flag. I'm sorry I am alllll over the place with this post. I have been wanting to update my situ. Never any time. Dont even know what is going on. And to be honest, I have just focused on me. He has to want to change. Kinda like I had to quit drinking. People must be motivated to change of their own volition. I dont know if he will change. Or of he wants to change, TBH. I do know it will take a shit ton of time even if he were jazzed to do the work. I support him. I will always be a friend to him. He can always trust me. But I need to let go of the potential. Mama needs firm ground and a level playing field. I do not have more time to kill on dead ends. I got one more high calibre romance left in me and many years of sexless marriage to make up for, lol. My vote is you have the conversation like grownies and you go from there. I dont think I'd be sending web links. Kinda cold. Kinda too in your face diagnosis. If you're a professional, sure. But that would put someone on defense and I imagine it would go terribly awry. But I concur; we talk about things. Not hastily, not angrily, not accusingly. And reassure as tolerated. Nothing overtly emotional or loud. This whole experience will most definitely be a trigger for the FA. That is to be anticipated. There will be fall out. Then give space until they initiate. I just found that the continued space makes me lose interest and I'm ready to walk. I think I would have more luck being a secure with an AP than this. This is a lot to contend with and it makes me AP. Not having it. My happiness is detrimental. I appreciate him and I want yo love him but he does not want me to. So I'm not trying any more.
|
|
|
Post by 8675309 on Oct 2, 2019 0:37:13 GMT
jules Ours was a chill adult talk, he didnt seem to be offended, we had a good evening. I expected him to deactivate and it was ok. He actually deactivated in his normal cycle not right after the talk. I'll say what I need to say like an adult, he runs, he runs. I 'project' secure behaviors and always fully open with intentions, needs, etc. No matter what way you spin it they are always going to run until they do the work. I didn't send him anything like videos, etc. Told him where there was good info if he wanted to look into it or if he wanted me to, I could compile some info. We left it at that and carried on that evening.
|
|
|
Post by nyc718 on Oct 2, 2019 17:54:31 GMT
The problem with this question is it’s an emotion issue without the other person making an emotional bid. Your invalidating them before they even open themselves up to you. The only acceptable time to do something like this is if they ask for help, or put out an emotional bid. And the only way to get receptivity is by validating their feelings first, and listening to them. Only then can you ASK them if they want feedback. Without that, you’re putting someone on the defensive. I wasn't going to demand that it be a conversation, I was just asking how to go about the topic IF it came up.
|
|
|
Post by dhali on Oct 6, 2019 18:40:12 GMT
The problem with this question is it’s an emotion issue without the other person making an emotional bid. Your invalidating them before they even open themselves up to you. The only acceptable time to do something like this is if they ask for help, or put out an emotional bid. And the only way to get receptivity is by validating their feelings first, and listening to them. Only then can you ASK them if they want feedback. Without that, you’re putting someone on the defensive. I wasn't going to demand that it be a conversation, I was just asking how to go about the topic IF it came up. How would that topic spontaneously come up? Hopefully not from your initiative.
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Oct 6, 2019 19:25:59 GMT
This can absolutely just come up, especially if the person is venting. For example, I'm so unhappy with x, y, and z in my life and I don't know why it seems to always happen. Or, this person did this thing to me and it must be for this reason, what do you think?
In fact, if someone is insecure anxious-leaning, it's likely to just come up at some point because they'll be looking for external validation. Whether or not they actually want to hear a real answer or what you have to say is a different question.
|
|
|
Post by nyc718 on Oct 26, 2019 13:26:52 GMT
I wasn't going to demand that it be a conversation, I was just asking how to go about the topic IF it came up. How would that topic spontaneously come up? Hopefully not from your initiative. Sorry for late reply to this, but things can come up, relationship talk or something. I am mindful enough that I know what I'm working with, so I wouldn't just spring the conversation on him, but IF an opportunity came up, I want to be prepared, that's all.
|
|