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Post by Dualcitizen on Jan 6, 2020 2:05:44 GMT
I'll necro post this. I'll update accordingly if anything to report. I myself bit the bullet, I've been in contact with my F-A ex since August, very slow at first, once a fortnight up until October. We actually then chatted weekly or more. I have supported her emotionally the past couple of months with a breast cancer scare and her talking about her father being verbally abusive still to this day. And from the outset in August, told her I wasn't going anywhere this time and will always be here for her.
She's suffered a panic attack and numerous other ailments this past year, I think her sleeping is better these days. She's slightly better but still an emotional wreck. And it's just heartbreaking to see.
Her father is clearly the source of the trauma (and maybe mother as well), but he has been nothing short of abusive verbally and physically when younger punishing all siblings for coming second in sport etc, just pure unadulterated abuse.
I mentioned in a loving way, telling her it wasn't really my place to be doing it, told her I loved her and cared for her deeply and it was literally heartbreaking to see her in emotional and physical pain constantly.
Mentioned some things she does/appears to do from my perspective, and that it "may" be linked to a framework of F-A attachment and CPTSD, told her she wasn't weak (her family and ex husband call her weak which she has repeated to me), and that she is lovely, kind, passionate and resilient and if she agreed, I would always be here to talk and help in anyway I possibly could in future, and to let me know what she thought.
No reply for a week. So either way, I'll leave it at that and she has some sort of context if she wishes to delve.
I'll let you all know what happens, I hope there is a positive outcome to it, as only confronting the trauma and letting it go, the shame and guilt, and gaining self love/acceptance will there then be peace. Poor girl.
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Post by nyc718 on Jan 6, 2020 3:17:45 GMT
I'll necro post this. I'll update accordingly if anything to report. I myself bit the bullet, I've been in contact with my F-A ex since August, very slow at first, once a fortnight up until October. We actually then chatted weekly or more. I have supported her emotionally the past couple of months with a breast cancer scare and her talking about her father being verbally abusive still to this day. And from the outset in August, told her I wasn't going anywhere this time and will always be here for her. She's suffered a panic attack and numerous other ailments this past year, I think her sleeping is better these days. She's slightly better but still an emotional wreck. And it's just heartbreaking to see. Her father is clearly the source of the trauma (and maybe mother as well), but he has been nothing short of abusive verbally and physically when younger punishing all siblings for coming second in sport etc, just pure unadulterated abuse. I mentioned in a loving way, telling her it wasn't really my place to be doing it, told her I loved her and cared for her deeply and it was literally heartbreaking to see her in emotional and physical pain constantly. Mentioned some things she does/appears to do from my perspective, and that it "may" be linked to a framework of F-A attachment and CPTSD, told her she wasn't weak (her family and ex husband call her weak which she has repeated to me), and that she is lovely, kind, passionate and resilient and if she agreed, I would always be here to talk and help in anyway I possibly could in future, and to let me know what she thought. No reply for a week. So either way, I'll leave it at that and she has some sort of context if she wishes to delve. I'll let you all know what happens, I hope there is a positive outcome to it, as only confronting the trauma and letting it go, the shame and guilt, and gaining self love/acceptance will there then be peace. Poor girl. Thanks for that update. I can really imagine how difficult it is to see someone you care about like that be suffering so much, both physically and mentally. It's so easy to see the picture clearly from the outside, yet they on the inside can't. I am no longer with the FA that I originally wrote this post about, it has been about two months that things ended, so the conversation never even came up. I do however, fully expect that he will eventually swing around one day, and I have no idea if I will even want to bring it up by that time. At the very present moment, I do still care enough that if he did contact me soon, I probably would say something, and I would be very direct about it. I mean, I have nothing to lose at this point, we aren't together and we aren't in contact, so if he happened to contact me, I would see that as my chance to tell him about attachment not for my sake, but for his. I know that we are done, and I cannot be with anyone who is an avoidant who isn't actively doing work on themselves. I have been through too much to willingly do that again, and I have made too much progress myself to go back. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Mar 3, 2020 4:28:29 GMT
An update, today, I linked Pete Walkers book to the lady I know and she's going to read it. I almost shed a tear, as it will explain everything too her. Her ex. husband and father definitely have exaggerated "Fight" type narcissist tendency, entitlement, controlling as listed under this book, as well as another guy she dated after her marriage. She mentioned he tried to "control" her. She's stood up to both these individuals recently instead of running away with avoidance. So she's internally fighting her "Fawn/Flight" response, which I'll explain to her over time. I praised her for doing so and setting boundaries for herself. It's run her down emotionally doing so, but it's a start.
This will explain everything to her, so a major first step, and one that makes me tremendously happy for her, of what might be for her for her remaining days if she works hard now, which she appears to want to do. I'll give another update either way let you know how it goes, as it may aid others handle a similar situation.
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Post by serenity on Mar 3, 2020 4:51:04 GMT
Oh good Job Dualcitizen! I can understand how you feel, seeing her respond like that.
I really hope this starts her off in the right direction. With her having Kids too, running from stable men, chasing narcissists because of her upbringing......it would be hard to watch someone's family ruined when you know some solid information might help. What a lucky woman to have met someone intelligent and caring enough to try to help her with mental health issues.
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Post by Dualcitizen on Mar 3, 2020 6:15:36 GMT
Oh good Job Dualcitizen! I can understand how you feel, seeing her respond like that. I really hope this starts her off in the right direction. With her having Kids too, running from stable men, chasing narcissists because of her upbringing......it would be hard to watch someone's family ruined when you know some solid information might help. What a lucky woman to have met someone intelligent and caring enough to try to help her with mental health issues. Thanks for the kind words Serenity, we'll see what happens. She seems motivated...so time will tell |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Mar 3, 2020 6:39:37 GMT
That’s amazing! I started the Pete Walker book this week and have read almost half already - it is really good. It’s so spot on, and so helpful for me understanding my stuff and what FA is potentially going though. The stuff about perfectionism was eye-opening for me as I struggle with that a lot. Highly recommend, and thanks @dualcitizen for recommending to me! Glad it's helping Caroline  |
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Post by ik2020 on Mar 3, 2020 12:06:33 GMT
As you know @dualcitizen I read the book after your recommendation and it was so useful... Great work getting her to want to read it! Just keep in mind that it's only one piece of a complex jigsaw and it's gonna be a long process. She's lucky to have someone so willing to help her 👍
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Post by kittygirl on Mar 3, 2020 16:34:12 GMT
oh @dualcitizen I was gonna PM you! but I suppose I'll just post it here....I also have been having some great success (armed with the knowledge from the book) with my close FA friend (not my ex!). He just went through a full deactivation and breakup ("breakup" as they were "never together!" and he always likes to remind me) and over the course of the last few weeks I have just been very open and blunt with him. Like he will text me "I am feeling overwhelming anxiety and sadness" and I have said "maybe you're experiencing an emotional flashback". Little things like that. Just allowing him to ask me for further info if he's interested. Anyway, yesterday we talked for a lonnnng time on the phone after this breakup and i was very honest about how I feel like there is a good chance he suffers from C-PTSD and how it all makes sense in the context of that and he said to me (for the first time ever!) "You know, I HAVE been thinking about it a lot more since you've been bringing it up. I am starting to wonder". He agreed to let me "send him a book" which I told him he could read or use it as a a doorstop, I don't care. Up to him. BUT it's clear that having someone who ACTUALLY understands has been really good for him (he cried a tiny bit yesterday-for the first time since I have ever known him in the 6 years of our friendship). I realize that being aware is only the beginning, but being aware is a whole lot better than floating around feeling like you have no bearings at all. Again, your book recommendation may very well end up helping him change his life. On a side note, he and I talk ALL the time (he lives in UK and I live in the States so there is an automatic "safety net" built in for him I suppose) but we communicate daily, and he will talk to me always despite going silent on people in his life regularly (like his romantic partners). In fact, that was the cause of this most recent breakup-he went radio silent for 2 weeks and she dumped him. When I asked him "why is it you feel like you can talk to me and not them? Why are you avoiding them and claiming it's because you're "busy" or "ill" (both excuses he used with this last person) when you and I have been talking constantly? And he said "it's simple, I trust you. And that has taken years and years.". So that was interesting and just makes so much sense given what I now know about CPTSD. Thanks again and I really hope my friend can find peace. As well as your ex and everyone else who is struggling with this. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Mar 3, 2020 21:39:39 GMT
great news guys! |
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Post by kittygirl on Mar 3, 2020 22:56:15 GMT
My friend who is recently-realized FA — the one who I brought up attachment theory to last summer and encouraged therapy (which she's now in and finding it helpful!!) — had a freak out the other day with a guy in town she's dating (it was just way too much / too much intimacy), and I was able to talk her down from it by talking it through and reminding her of what was going on. Wanted to share what seemed to help the most from the conversation — some impacted directly from the book: - this is not in your DNA, it can change (which she was skeptical at first, but heard me for sure here) - you are carrying around a shield that you build up because you needed that in childhood, but you're an adult now, and you have access to other resources/tools now — and you have the ability to walk away - he hasn't shown you reasons not to trust him, these are old wounds speaking up - you pushing him away feels like rejection to him, and you don't really want to reject him — even if old fears/wounds are 1/2 telling you to It was interesting to see her switch from "I don't like him" / fault finding to "I really like him, he's just using me, he doesn't like me" both within the same minute basically — then finally to a calmed state where her nervous system had calmed down and she could see that her negative thoughts weren't reflective of how she really felt — she was just scared sh*tless She was pushing him away pretty hard — so much so she had to take a couple of hour break and ran out of the place (which is when I came over) — and I encouraged her to say something like this to him, "I really like you, but this is hard for me because of things that have happened in my past. I'm not ready to talk about it just yet, but I wanted to let you know it's not because of something you did or because don't like you." Which she did! I was so happy/proud! She ended up telling him about some of her abuse, and he didn't "run" which was one of her fears — so she's surprised but more comfortable. Caroline-wow that's really amazing. She must really trust you to be able to hear that stuff from you and not get defensive. I have not had that sort of luck with my FA friend unfortunately. Even when I explain to him how she likely feels (I say things like "I am her and you are my most recent ex and its very confusing and painful" and ironically HE still pines away for a woman who left him 5 years ago so he knows exactly what it's like) or that this is the result of a his childhood and triggering of fear because of how much he HATES the idea of being "suffocated", he still can't seem to be able to reset his thinking once that chill has set in.He'll no joke say things like "yeah i know i know". BUT I really hope he can someday and your story gives me hope! He deserves to feel the joy that a truly close relationship can bring someone (I tell him this). So maybe one day he will be like your friend and be able to sort of take a step back and not react immediately to the triggers. I have hope and I tell him this as well.
For him, just getting at the basic stuff (like emotional dysregulation and understanding emotional flashbacks) are what have helped me from reading the book the most. Along with the perfectionism stuff. He is also a hardcore sex addict and understanding "numbing" behaviors has helped me to talk with him about this as well.
And by the way, he used to deactivate and dip out on me occasionally (not as bad as my ex did but it was a thing). When he'd come back around and I'd ask him what the f*ck just happened he would only describe it as "I was feeling funny and I needed some space away from people" (but it would be directed at me specifically so...). After one last year I had a frank talk with him about how it's completely uncool for him to do that, and while I understand him, and I don't judge, it makes me feel shit when he dips out. He told me he would never do it again without letting me know what's happening and he has kept his word. Had only one little one later in the year and he told me about it ahead of time. Made all the difference in the world. This book has helped me to take all that with a grain of salt as well. (ha granted that still doesn't mean I'd tolerate it in a romantic relationship like with my ex because I absolutely wouldn't but for a friendship where the expectations are different I'm cool)
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Post by kittygirl on Mar 4, 2020 0:09:19 GMT
""With my FA partner, I have noticed that since I very bluntly told him how it really hurts my feelings, etc, he's not straight up ignored anything and has responded promptly — longest being 3 hours. If he responds and isn't seeming like he's engaging, I'll leave it. We also talked about a "let me know" sort of thing... which I do think they might not always recognize it to do ahead of time — using a turtle shell emoji — where he could send it or I could text "turtle shell emoji ?" Haven't had to use it yet, it's been a couple of weeks since we decided on that. He's said numerous times it's not me, he's not made at me, etc and that reassurance helps a lot as well as the book, but the changed behavior and "trying" has also been nice and comforting. Not to mention he blatantly told me "please don't stop" being nice / reaching out / etc.
But, I've yet to talk to him about attachment theory or CPTSD, and I'm just now feeling like maybe I should try to check-in on his depression etc as we haven't talked about it much since right after we got back together. I can tell he's in a lot of pain and his nervous system is off the rails, and I hope one day he can hear of this stuff (through a therapist or me or someone) as I know how impactful it can be etc but I know I'm not the best person to bring it up given the romantic nature — yet I'm the closest person to him like that / only one that knows about some stuff. If I bring it up, it'll be in the context of how much diving into this stuff helped me. That's how I initially brought it up with FA friend too.""
Ha I quoted this because I don't know how to just get this small piece!!....but I was going to say that it's sort of deceiving for my story of being so blunt with my friend to be compared to a romantic relationship because as you know, the stakes are so much higher in the latter! I have literally told my friend "I refuse to reassure you anymore that things are cool. This is the very last time I'm going to tell you that I'm not upset and we are still friends". And it was, in fact, the last time I did (this was years ago now). I would never, EVER have been able to speak with my ex like that. No way in hell.
So I guess I want to say that I think you are doing so well with being as straightforward as you can. And he's being great with saying he's going to give an indication a go when he needs to withdraw! It's hard when feelings are wrapped up in the dynamics (my friend and I have zero feelings for each other and that makes it so much damn easier). But yes being armed with the idea that the C-PTSD stuff goes so far beyond just "attachment" I think is huge (depression being one of course). It's really this entire suite of things that is all consuming.
My FA friend told me once when I was so heartbroken about my breakup and about how it was hurting me how selfish he was acting after, he said (and it was so profound): when you are in pain, you will do anything to alleviate the pain. And so you sort of have to be selfish. Your life is dictated by doing anything, ANYTHING to feel better.
My ex is in pain and the attachment stuff is but a drop, frankly. That sticks with me and has helped me a lot.
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