Scope for healing? And how?

faithopelove I've recently left participating in this forum as "sherry", I feel that the gap between dismissive avoidant and any type of anxious style is too far to bridge in a therapeutic sense on a forum- it's just damaging due to a lack of understanding and resultant emotions from what I've seen. I personally reached the end of the benefit for myself here but stopped by to see if there are any dismissive discussions going on.

I saw your post and wanted to respond. First, I'm sorry that your heart is broken. Being dismissive myself and coming to a point of healing through SE therapy and specialized attachment therapy related to SE, I want to assure you that your DA's wound is so deep and mournful that he cannot endure it. I think you have been loving to him, from some posts of yours I read, and also of course triggered in your own wounds. But this isn't your fault, it isn't his. It's so sad now that I can put my finger on what happens in me when I HAVE to be alone to be ok.

This might be long. I would like to share it because it is a source of daily grief and tears for me as I uncover the wound and remodel my system to face it. I am constantly triggered by the sincere love I have around me and I am so touched and blessed but I have to explain the pain, the trigger.

In early days of involvement before attaching, deactivation for me is about AVOIDING ATTACHING. So that's another more surface level of avoidance than what I am about to describe to you. The avoidance of attachment in the first place is to avoid the greif and sorrow of bereft isolation and abandonment that is unconscious but always there. This is the original wound that is triggered by true intimacy and interdependence that comes with a lot of time and patience and mindfulness- I have been able to achieve intimacy finally and it has exposed my original wound. It is something I am having to navigate with my partner and I think I could not endure it without the intensive therapy I am getting bi weekly to work through the pain with my extremely wise and compassionate therapist. He understands this on an emotional, cognitive, and neuro-science level.

From what I understand , you feel that you and your BF had actually attached and that the emotional connection was there? I might have that wrong. Yes, an argument or hard words can quash the trust of an avoidant who is deeply conditioned by both attack and neglect. I think all of us do have fragile trust. But there is something more profound and deep, and I've only recently been able to really identify it and stay with it and explore it- but not without help.

For me personally; my deep wound is being invisible, neglected, not loved. My "feeling" memories of my childhood are feelings of being bereft, forgotten, invisible even when I was right in the middle of the room. My parents were not able to connect with me, they had their own issues that prevented it. Nor could they empathize with me, anticipate or understand my needs as a child. Very cold environment.

I think that some children do experience intermittent emotional connection/warmth with their parents, and they develop AP? Then some experience frightful situations that are endangering , as well as intermittent emotional connection, and perhaps they have the fear/need push pull cycle of FA. I'm not an expert in that.

Then you have the deeply avoidant that felt just erased and invisible. The never loved, not noticed, the "doesn't matter" child. I don't mean to sound melodramatic- but I have discovered with the help of my SE therapist that my system went into collapse of sorts realizing that I was completely alone. That is how my little brain /heart perceived my position in my parent's home. The coping skills then turned to self reliance and avoidance of that pain of needing but not having any hope of being met with warmth and understanding.

So. Coming forward to today. I understand now the irony of deactivating in the midst of what I have always needed (love)
My partner listens to me, responds to me, has empathy for me. and makes real effort to understand me. We have raised the bar together for our intimacy. We are both in therapy. He is DA (less ) also and perhaps the reason I can cope with him is because he feels the exact same way I do to a lesser degree but still it resonates with him. The reason I deactivate is because right after a moment or period of time when I'm quenched and enjoying sips of cool, life giving water from him, my original wound gets touched and it is the wound of barrenness, drought, grey emptiness and profound loneliness, despair and hopelessness like a child might feel when she sees her parents lying dead before her. The feeling, that all I had is them, and they are gone. That is the only way I can describe it. Deactivation ,for me, is unresolved sorrow and grief and despair.

Recently after a beautiful time with my partner and then a therapy session that validated the healing power of my relationship.... I was alone after just having time by myself and the grief poured over me and all I could think was... I cannot bear this love. I cannot. I have to be ok by myself; I have to minimize this and I need to get back to where I was before I felt this sadness. I have to back off. The thought began to fill me with hope. I had the answer to the pain.

Thankfully my partner called me RIGHT AT THE MOMENT I was having those thoughts and it flipped that switch? I think it was very serendipitous. He didn't have any idea what was happening in me but simply calling me to chat brought me back to today where I am a woman, able to give and receive love and face the risks and joys of relating... and out of the collapsed state of a child who lost their parents and has to avoid feeling that loss or encountering it again.

I don't know if this helps you. Your loss is a loss no matter the cause. But I just want to tell you this problem is so deep it simply cannot be discerned or deciphered by a truly dismissive avoidant until the body/brain are able to let the grief through to be healed in a direct way. If I didn't experience all this myself I doubt I could understand it in another- it looks very different on the outside of a DA to how it is on the inside. But even they don't know it because our brains and bodies numbed us out. I still can only feel grief and sadness for just a slice of a moment in my body before it all gets cut off and my head takes over. I literally cannot stay with a feeling of emotional pain below my neck. I know that people feel heaviness or tightness or whatever in their chest or stomach and it really reveals their pain/anxiety to them. But my physical sense of emotional pain is blocked by triggers, and I only feel thoughts in my head after that. It's so hard to explain. The only way to relieve the initial feeling of this deep original wound is to separate from my attachment figure and revert to self reliance. It is a failed plan and one that I'm changing but painfully! It served a purpose when I had to manufacture hope out of nothing back then but harms me now.

It is hard for others to understand how intimacy can cause sorrow. It's not because the partner is unpalatable. The original wound it triggers is overwhelming but creates cognitive dissonance. How can it make sense in the mind of a person, how is it possible that true love in an intimate emotional exchange with my partner would evoke a feeling of greif as if someone I love has passed away? My mind has struggled for decades to avoid feeling this way. Now I know why. Because it doesn't make cognitive sense, and it's painful and can be remedied or avoided by just not going there. That's the simple answer, the deeply ingrained and natural answer.

Anyway, I hope this helps your processing. Maybe it complicates it, and if so I am sorry. A DA cannot return to the scene of the loss. Thats what a safe relationship. is at times, a pointer to the original lack of love and belonging. That's been my struggle in this relationship I am in. But it's a good struggle, and one I would fail at without all the loving compassion that I am fortunate to have now in many people close to me. Friends, (not family), partner, therapist, I think it's taking a village to raise this child but I'm continually moved to tears now by those who are helping me. Without that kind of support and circumstance I feel hope is impossible. I hate saying that but that's just how hard this feels sometimes and how aware I am of the pain, now. Of your ex is really DA it's not that he can't be bothered, it is like you say, he feels incapable and best alone, for reasons few truly understand (in my experience).

Best of luck on your own healing process. It's all just so painful to face.

The board is full of marathon discussions of Sour Grapes, alexandra I appreciate your voice of wisdom and objectivity. There is no way for rejected lovers to be objective about a whole attachment style but maybe the board is truly more useful being used the way it is, as an outlet for bitterness and pain after breakups. Anyway thank you and good luck to you guys as well.

@inmourning . Thank you so much for sharing your journey. I’ve missed your posts. I am AP with long term (five years) bf who is I believe a combination of DA/FA. Because of things you’ve shared about yourself and in response to others, I have learned so much. It’s helped me to be a more understanding and supportive partner. My bf is not yet aware of attachment...he knows he has issues, we call it his weirdness 😉 (recently we’ve been calling it our mutual weirdness knowing I struggle with my own triggers) but has come far in trying to understand and work through his fears/need to deactivate. He shows up for me even when it creates discomfort for him. And because of this relationship, I have learned a ton about my AP issues, where they come from and have been working to heal so that I can show up healthier for him. As with so many here, it’s all a work in progress and takes tremendous patience and unselfish understanding.
My point to you is that I’m grateful. I see so much of my bf in the things you share about yourself. It’s provided insight that’s helped me to be patient and understanding, especially during the times when he triggers my AP with his deactivating strategies (mainly needing time by himself; he’s never been cruel or angry or degrading like other stories I’ve read here). I know it’s not malicious or on purpose. It’s just him trying to cope with his fears. I’ve shared a couple of times on these boards that a game changer for me was realizing that the level of anxiety he feels when we’re close is the exact same as the level I feel when he distances. To me it’s about compassion.
Unfortunately, his triggers manifest physically with migraines. He recently has sought treatment for those....and I’m hoping that will lead him down a path to seek understanding/healing for the underlying issues. It’s baby steps but worth it. So thank you again....know that sharing your journey is definitely helping others. Your posts have been invaluable to me in understanding how I can continue to support and love him. ❤️

faithopelove I've recently left participating in this forum as "sherry", I feel that the gap between dismissive avoidant and any type of anxious style is too far to bridge in a therapeutic sense on a forum- it's just damaging due to a lack of understanding and resultant emotions from what I've seen. I personally reached the end of the benefit for myself here but stopped by to see if there are any dismissive discussions going on.

I saw your post and wanted to respond. First, I'm sorry that your heart is broken. Being dismissive myself and coming to a point of healing through SE therapy and specialized attachment therapy related to SE, I want to assure you that your DA's wound is so deep and mournful that he cannot endure it. I think you have been loving to him, from some posts of yours I read, and also of course triggered in your own wounds. But this isn't your fault, it isn't his. It's so sad now that I can put my finger on what happens in me when I HAVE to be alone to be ok.

This might be long. I would like to share it because it is a source of daily grief and tears for me as I uncover the wound and remodel my system to face it. I am constantly triggered by the sincere love I have around me and I am so touched and blessed but I have to explain the pain, the trigger.

In early days of involvement before attaching, deactivation for me is about AVOIDING ATTACHING. So that's another more surface level of avoidance than what I am about to describe to you. The avoidance of attachment in the first place is to avoid the greif and sorrow of bereft isolation and abandonment that is unconscious but always there. This is the original wound that is triggered by true intimacy and interdependence that comes with a lot of time and patience and mindfulness- I have been able to achieve intimacy finally and it has exposed my original wound. It is something I am having to navigate with my partner and I think I could not endure it without the intensive therapy I am getting bi weekly to work through the pain with my extremely wise and compassionate therapist. He understands this on an emotional, cognitive, and neuro-science level.

From what I understand , you feel that you and your BF had actually attached and that the emotional connection was there? I might have that wrong. Yes, an argument or hard words can quash the trust of an avoidant who is deeply conditioned by both attack and neglect. I think all of us do have fragile trust. But there is something more profound and deep, and I've only recently been able to really identify it and stay with it and explore it- but not without help.

For me personally; my deep wound is being invisible, neglected, not loved. My "feeling" memories of my childhood are feelings of being bereft, forgotten, invisible even when I was right in the middle of the room. My parents were not able to connect with me, they had their own issues that prevented it. Nor could they empathize with me, anticipate or understand my needs as a child. Very cold environment.

I think that some children do experience intermittent emotional connection/warmth with their parents, and they develop AP? Then some experience frightful situations that are endangering , as well as intermittent emotional connection, and perhaps they have the fear/need push pull cycle of FA. I'm not an expert in that.

Then you have the deeply avoidant that felt just erased and invisible. The never loved, not noticed, the "doesn't matter" child. I don't mean to sound melodramatic- but I have discovered with the help of my SE therapist that my system went into collapse of sorts realizing that I was completely alone. That is how my little brain /heart perceived my position in my parent's home. The coping skills then turned to self reliance and avoidance of that pain of needing but not having any hope of being met with warmth and understanding.

So. Coming forward to today. I understand now the irony of deactivating in the midst of what I have always needed (love)
My partner listens to me, responds to me, has empathy for me. and makes real effort to understand me. We have raised the bar together for our intimacy. We are both in therapy. He is DA (less ) also and perhaps the reason I can cope with him is because he feels the exact same way I do to a lesser degree but still it resonates with him. The reason I deactivate is because right after a moment or period of time when I'm quenched and enjoying sips of cool, life giving water from him, my original wound gets touched and it is the wound of barrenness, drought, grey emptiness and profound loneliness, despair and hopelessness like a child might feel when she sees her parents lying dead before her. The feeling, that all I had is them, and they are gone. That is the only way I can describe it. Deactivation ,for me, is unresolved sorrow and grief and despair.

Recently after a beautiful time with my partner and then a therapy session that validated the healing power of my relationship.... I was alone after just having time by myself and the grief poured over me and all I could think was... I cannot bear this love. I cannot. I have to be ok by myself; I have to minimize this and I need to get back to where I was before I felt this sadness. I have to back off. The thought began to fill me with hope. I had the answer to the pain.

Thankfully my partner called me RIGHT AT THE MOMENT I was having those thoughts and it flipped that switch? I think it was very serendipitous. He didn't have any idea what was happening in me but simply calling me to chat brought me back to today where I am a woman, able to give and receive love and face the risks and joys of relating... and out of the collapsed state of a child who lost their parents and has to avoid feeling that loss or encountering it again.

I don't know if this helps you. Your loss is a loss no matter the cause. But I just want to tell you this problem is so deep it simply cannot be discerned or deciphered by a truly dismissive avoidant until the body/brain are able to let the grief through to be healed in a direct way. If I didn't experience all this myself I doubt I could understand it in another- it looks very different on the outside of a DA to how it is on the inside. But even they don't know it because our brains and bodies numbed us out. I still can only feel grief and sadness for just a slice of a moment in my body before it all gets cut off and my head takes over. I literally cannot stay with a feeling of emotional pain below my neck. I know that people feel heaviness or tightness or whatever in their chest or stomach and it really reveals their pain/anxiety to them. But my physical sense of emotional pain is blocked by triggers, and I only feel thoughts in my head after that. It's so hard to explain. The only way to relieve the initial feeling of this deep original wound is to separate from my attachment figure and revert to self reliance. It is a failed plan and one that I'm changing but painfully! It served a purpose when I had to manufacture hope out of nothing back then but harms me now.

It is hard for others to understand how intimacy can cause sorrow. It's not because the partner is unpalatable. The original wound it triggers is overwhelming but creates cognitive dissonance. How can it make sense in the mind of a person, how is it possible that true love in an intimate emotional exchange with my partner would evoke a feeling of greif as if someone I love has passed away? My mind has struggled for decades to avoid feeling this way. Now I know why. Because it doesn't make cognitive sense, and it's painful and can be remedied or avoided by just not going there. That's the simple answer, the deeply ingrained and natural answer.

Anyway, I hope this helps your processing. Maybe it complicates it, and if so I am sorry. A DA cannot return to the scene of the loss. Thats what a safe relationship. is at times, a pointer to the original lack of love and belonging. That's been my struggle in this relationship I am in. But it's a good struggle, and one I would fail at without all the loving compassion that I am fortunate to have now in many people close to me. Friends, (not family), partner, therapist, I think it's taking a village to raise this child but I'm continually moved to tears now by those who are helping me. Without that kind of support and circumstance I feel hope is impossible. I hate saying that but that's just how hard this feels sometimes and how aware I am of the pain, now. Of your ex is really DA it's not that he can't be bothered, it is like you say, he feels incapable and best alone, for reasons few truly understand (in my experience).

Best of luck on your own healing process. It's all just so painful to face.