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Post by mrob on Dec 28, 2019 0:44:42 GMT
@janedoe, and that’s where I find it hard to know whether my attachment style is doing a number on me or whether my responses are reasonable. For example... I do not wish to cohabitate. Now, or ever. If I find someone harbouring that wish, then I’m only going to disappoint. Better I go now. Is this reasonable? Only I can make that decision. I can spot an agenda a mile off. Especially that pervasive “happily ever after” agenda and all the covert ways of making it happen.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 28, 2019 1:03:48 GMT
mrob, that sounds reasonable. Cohabitation is a dealbreaker for you, so walk away if a potential partner says they're looking to one day live together. Nothing wrong with that. What's unreasonable is if they say they never want this, and generally are consistent and honest, but you look for hidden agendas or assume they're being dishonest with you just to keep you around. Then you're projecting and creating problems due to your attachment issues. Yes, someone anxious can people-please and say what they think you'll want to hear in hopes something will change one day. That's a real thing. But assuming that without real evidence it's who they are (and not just nitpicking and fault finding out of self defense) is when you'd be scaring off a partner who might be compatible.
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Post by serenity on Dec 28, 2019 1:12:00 GMT
@janedoe , and that’s where I find it hard to know whether my attachment style is doing a number on me or whether my responses are reasonable. For example... I do not wish to cohabitate. Now, or ever. If I find someone harbouring that wish, then I’m only going to disappoint. Better I go now. Is this reasonable? Only I can make that decision. I can spot an agenda a mile off. Especially that pervasive “happily ever after” agenda and all the covert ways of making it happen. lol. Those sneaky `happy ever after' people. Gotta watch those. <3 |
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Post by serenity on Dec 28, 2019 3:02:32 GMT
lol. Those sneaky `happy ever after' people. Gotta watch those. <3 In all seriousness, yes you do. That's actually a lot of pressure someone can place on you to make their forever happy. I've never experienced it, but I can imagine it sucks feeling like someone's addiction. Its sort of dehumanizing I would think. |
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Post by alexandra on Dec 28, 2019 3:16:48 GMT
In all seriousness, yes you do. That's actually a lot of pressure someone can place on you to make their forever happy. I've never experienced it, but I can imagine it sucks feeling like someone's addiction. Its sort of dehumanizing I would think. I did once, and recognized it quickly as extremely activated and unaware AP. It's really horrible!! I was guilty of that when I was an immature teen, so I was still nice about it because I felt bad for him, but he didn't even know me and was way too old to be acting in a way that ignored everything I said. I let him down easy by date 3 but he kept wanting to work things out for months. And was even already in therapy, which obviously wasn't helping quite yet. (I didn't block him but had stopped engaging.) |
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Post by alexandra on Dec 28, 2019 4:12:34 GMT
@janedoe, sometimes it's just checking ideal boxes + timing for someone who is already dealing with other stuff. In my case, he hadn't yet emotionally dealt with a marital separation, yet thought he had. He shouldn't have been dating at all. They weren't even divorced yet -- he of course hadn't disclosed any of that to me until after we had a great first date, or I'd never have gone out with him at all. I at least knew immediately none of it was about me so I could be nice and decent to him but not overall feel responsible for his emotions.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 28, 2019 4:28:07 GMT
Sorry caro, we've been tangenting all over the place! |
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Post by serenity on Dec 28, 2019 7:43:32 GMT
I guess what I want to think through now is how can I best have a more structured conversation that addresses when he’ll get triggered. Like a plan... obviously I have to steer clear of armchair diagnosis etc so it’s not like I can say “when you deactivate, which will most likely happen, can we try to work through it this way?” I don’t know how to explain it... I’m not trying to control his actions just discuss how to manage those periods easier. I did say “I need you to communicate... if you get mad, upset, need space, etc” but I don’t know I wish there was a way to address the FAness a little better. Esp while he’s open to talking about working on things and himself. Not sure if I explained that well, but that’s what I’m curious about. Any thoughts from others would be great. That's a real tough one Caroline, I know. Triggers are very uncomfortable and sometimes painful, and I guess noone wants to feel locked into remaining in a triggering situation when they are in that state. Also, even if you can get them to agree to any particular reaction, they may be unable to honor that when it happens. However he's on meds now, and maybe that will reduce the intensity of his triggers? I think in your guy's case, where you strongly suspect he may be a sexual abuse victim, its probably in your interest to keep guiding him towards mental health care for trauma, rather than trying to tackle this on your own. But see how the meds go first. Maybe they will help, and getting him the care he needs can be a longer term goal? |
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Post by mrob on Dec 28, 2019 7:46:58 GMT
In all seriousness, yes you do. That's actually a lot of pressure someone can place on you to make their forever happy. I've never experienced it, but I can imagine it sucks feeling like someone's addiction. Its sort of dehumanizing I would think. I haven’t viewed it that as dehumanising. Something I’ve learned in this process is that I can attach too. I can be triggered anxious and go a bit crazy. So, for the first time I can actually see where APs are coming from, and the feelings I had as a teenager and in my early 20s actually have a name. I’m not totally unhinged. Only partially, lol. I want the ability to say who is in my life and in what capacity. Nobody will roll over my boundaries again, because this time I actually have some. |
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jules
Full Member
Posts: 142
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Post by jules on Dec 28, 2019 11:50:37 GMT
lol. Those sneaky `happy ever after' people. Gotta watch those. <3 In all seriousness, yes you do. That's actually a lot of pressure someone can place on you to make their forever happy. You gotta be happy on your own. Only then can you count on forever. Relationships add they dont make. IMO |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Dec 29, 2019 6:05:44 GMT
I hope, for your sake, you haven’t completed the FA/AP cycle. Beware and good luck. Also, at this point - since he is working on himself and communicating that, I feel like it’s ok to gently bring in the attachment style thing under the hood of I learned this and it helped me. To be honest Caroline, if you've known him for a while, you recognise behaviour, and you say it lovingly, say it anytime you feel necessary tbh. I've known my F-A ex fopr a long time, we've been talking for 6 months as friends, I've supported her tremendously in the past few months emotionally. I asked if she was interested in self development, that I had been reading specifically about "attachment styles" for around 5 years on and off, and that it could be useful for her. I pointed out what she has said to me specifically, what she had done specifically at times, and that it appears to be along the lines of the F-A framework and to tell me if she agrees, linked her a Thais Gibson video explaining the internal workings. Hopefully it is an awakening so she can free herself from the pain and suffering I know she goes through daily. Poor girl. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Dec 31, 2019 3:00:47 GMT
In all seriousness, yes you do. That's actually a lot of pressure someone can place on you to make their forever happy. You gotta be happy on your own. Only then can you count on forever. Relationships add they dont make. IMO It's the true self love and acceptance that allows you to receive another's genuine love of you. Something I hope I have awakened my F-A ex too. I love her dearly genuinely, I know her faults, I don't accept the intermittent reinforcement and codependency, but I will help her selflessly gain self love and happiness and remove her pain and suffering if I can, if she allows me to help. (we're not in a relationship, I'd never accept until she has self love and the ability to regulate inner voice) |
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Post by serenity on Jan 3, 2020 21:29:39 GMT
Hi Carloine,
Thanks for the update. I'm glad you had a happy New year and had a good time with your partner.
Regarding anxiety, avoidants will naturally arouse it because of their avoidance behavior (deactivation, intermittent reinforcement, going `cold' for a little while after you get really close) but it can feel amplified if its triggering abandonment anxiety. But looking to them to regulate/reassure those feelings really only pushes them away in the long run. If you've chosen an avoidant partner, this is a good opportunity to force yourself to manage your anxiety without relying on someone else to do it. That means trying your best not reach out too much when he takes down time after a date. And trying to negotiate some kind of consistent contact, so you don't get damaged by intermittent reinforcment stress. It can be a process to negotiate this, and it may ultimately fail, but it could come down to asking for something simple like a regular date night once or twice a fortnight. You could have spontaneous contact outside of that, but the consistent date night will help create stability that you need. It'll have to be something that works for you both.
If you are becoming a little passive aggressive, it could mean you are harbouring a small amount of anger? If that is the case, you might need to do more along the lines of truly accepting that he is an avoidant, who can only partially meet your needs. You know this, and what it means. You will ultimately have to decide if you're okay with this or not, whilst understanding he didn't ask to be this way.
Because you've been so close over the holidays, I'd fully expect him to be a little withdrawn for a few days or so. Maybe wait for him to reach out? He needs your love and wants to be with you, have trust in that <3
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Post by Dualcitizen on Jan 3, 2020 23:02:04 GMT
To be honest Caroline, if you've known him for a while, you recognise behaviour, and you say it lovingly, say it anytime you feel necessary tbh. I've known my F-A ex fopr a long time, we've been talking for 6 months as friends, I've supported her tremendously in the past few months emotionally. I asked if she was interested in self development, that I had been reading specifically about "attachment styles" for around 5 years on and off, and that it could be useful for her. I pointed out what she has said to me specifically, what she had done specifically at times, and that it appears to be along the lines of the F-A framework and to tell me if she agrees, linked her a Thais Gibson video explaining the internal workings. Hopefully it is an awakening so she can free herself from the pain and suffering I know she goes through daily. Poor girl. This is also a good point. I think I need to work on my delivery — sometimes I'm really good at just being lovingly, but other times because we've had a joking/sassy relationship, I think things come out that way. Nothing on a deeply serious subject, but I did notice myself doing that a little more this past time we hung out, which isn't good. Has she shared any progress or signs that it was helpful? I hope so, I know how much learning about this all and AP specifically has helped point to so many answers for me. It's like I was wandering in an open desert beforehand without any direction. I'll let you guys know here how it all goes. |
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Post by iz42 on Jan 6, 2020 0:25:19 GMT
Hi Caroline! I’m glad things have been going well. I would only embark on a conversation like that with him if you already know that he’s aware of his attachment issues. Otherwise it’s hard to know how it will go, and it may make him feel defensive. For now, you can probably just expect that it will be tough for him to sustain the same level of closeness over a period of time. others may have different advice though!
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