|
Post by serenity on Jan 8, 2020 5:29:31 GMT
Yes, `Unavailable' dating partners can include avoidants, but there are many other explanations for unavailability after the person has expressed attraction and become romantically engaged with you. Some I've come across include recent breakups, being married or already involved with someone, enmeshed with a parent, personality disorders, geographical distance, age gaps, wrong time of life for committment etc Avoidants usually employ several distancing strategies at the same time, apart from saying they are not ready for committment: www.loveaddictionhelp.com/12-distancing-strategies-the-love-avoidant-uses-to-avoid-intimacy-Avoiding physical closeness— avoiding sex, or severely reducing sexual contact; eluding physical affection; avoiding proximity/closeness: (e.g., hugging, kissing, holding hands, sitting close; avoiding sharing the same bed; avoids sharing same bed; walks ahead or behind, etc.); also may retreat when affection is offered. -Refusal to make commitment— makes assorted statements to shun commitment to a relationship, “I’m not ready for commitment,” “I’m no good at relationships,” or “I never have good relationships”, all the while engaging in a monogamous relationship, sometimes for years; (relationship looks/appears like a committed relationship). -Avoids verbalizing “I love you”— avoids saying “I love you”, while simultaneously asserting feelings towards the other; makes excuses as to why he/she can’t or won’t say, ”I love you"; may say something like, “You know how I feel, why should I have to say it." -Sabotages when things are going well— when a relationship seems to be going well, he/she sabotages or disrupts it in some way; e.g., starts arguments; suddenly acts angry or resentful; becomes passive-aggressive; doesn't keep agreements; doesn't call back; becomes overly demanding, controlling arrogant; becomes hostile, defensive, or reactive for no apparent reason; creates unnecessary drama, etc.) -Cheats or has affair/’s— establishes a sexual, romantic, or emotional relationship with another person; creates a relationship with people who are unavailable (e.g., married or already in a committed romantic relationship). -Refuses to resolve conflicts; communicate— refuses to discuss relational problems or resolve, negotiate conflicts; rebuffs sharing his/her internal or external stressors; withhold feelings, thoughts wants or needs. -Criticizes or devalues— partner becomes the “enemy”; focuses on partners flaws or imperfections; makes belittling observations (e.g., comments on way partner talks, dresses, eats, looks, or (fill in the blank); finds fault/blames partner for any current or ongoing issues); displays a negative attitude of resentment, revulsion, or dislike; disparaging comments on traits he/she found to be positive in recent past; devalues, despite partners genuine effort of being open, loving, honest, caring, supportive, etc. -Pines for past relationship (ex-girlfriend/boyfriend)— talks or thinks about a past relationship partner with a sense of craving, nostalgia, yearning, or longing for “the long lost love”; may make statements about great qualities of an ex-flame, all the while ignoring/minimizing ex’s imperfections that, in reality, what avoidant focused on in past relationship; convinces self that he/she was “the best partner I ever had”; may also dream of “the one perfect partner” who is “out there somewhere”.
* This defense may seem absurd (it is). Yet, in the Avoidants mind, this defense justifies that “I’m okay and not the problem, my partner (current) is the problem” … to them, a perfect rationale to keep a current partner at arm’s length and make him/her seem unimportant by comparison. It also sends a message that the avoidant partner “actually craves or is capable of intimacy." Don’t buy it!– dreaming of an ideal partner or ruminating about a past relationship doesn’t mean the avoidant is capable of real intimacy; the truth is in fact, they drive it away; and would do so in any romantic relationship they get in. -Flirting with others— frequently leads on, flirts, teases, or plays with other/'s seemingly potential partners or “flings” (with little or no consideration of current partners feelings) - a tactic to send a conscious or unconscious message that “I’m always on the lookout for another, you’re not that important to me”-- no doubt, this is an emotionally abusive and callous act to make a partner feel insecure, anxious, and self-doubting. As goes one quote, “Flirting is the Art of Keeping Distance." -Emotionally “checks out” of relationship— spends lots of time away from partner; displays disinterest about partner’s daily life, concerns, thoughts, views, or feelings; rarely initiates conversations and/or cuts them short; indifferent, aloof, and unconcerned attitudes; ignores or minimizes sincere caring and loving acts/behaviors by partner; exhibits a posture such as, “you’re not that important to me”, “I have more important things to do with my time”, or “Don’t bother me." -Keeps Secrets — withholds important information from partner (e.g., won’t tell how money is spent; doesn’t share what he/she is doing with their time , or persons, they spent time with when away; conceals important feelings, thoughts, or views); shares information in ways which leaves things unclear, vague, or ambiguous; may keep secrets from close family members, friends, etc. about personal or relational matters. This defense is to maintain an entrenched desire to be independent and self-reliant (all Avoidants have) * Healthy/secure relationships involve inter-dependency: a balance of independence and dependence. One extreme or the other blocks authentic interaction and intimacy, and leads to painful/unhappy relationships. -Focus is outside/away from relationship— creates external distractions; diverts essential time and energy away from relationship (e.g., being excessively preoccupied in work, hobbies, children, or other relationships); outside focus can be some addiction or compulsive behavior (e,g., porn, sex, drugs, alcohol, gambling, gaming, etc.) -- All a sure way to disengage and avoid giving a relationship time and nourishment; guaranteeing the obstruction of intimacy.
|
|
|
Post by Helsbells on Jan 8, 2020 11:33:10 GMT
Yes, `Unavailable' dating partners can include avoidants, but there are many other explanations for unavailability after the person has expressed attraction and become romantically engaged with you. Some I've come across include recent breakups, being married or already involved with someone, enmeshed with a parent, personality disorders, geographical distance, age gaps, wrong time of life for committment etc Avoidants usually employ several distancing strategies at the same time, apart from saying they are not ready for committment: www.loveaddictionhelp.com/12-distancing-strategies-the-love-avoidant-uses-to-avoid-intimacy-Avoiding physical closeness— avoiding sex, or severely reducing sexual contact; eluding physical affection; avoiding proximity/closeness: (e.g., hugging, kissing, holding hands, sitting close; avoiding sharing the same bed; avoids sharing same bed; walks ahead or behind, etc.); also may retreat when affection is offered. -Refusal to make commitment— makes assorted statements to shun commitment to a relationship, “I’m not ready for commitment,” “I’m no good at relationships,” or “I never have good relationships”, all the while engaging in a monogamous relationship, sometimes for years; (relationship looks/appears like a committed relationship). -Avoids verbalizing “I love you”— avoids saying “I love you”, while simultaneously asserting feelings towards the other; makes excuses as to why he/she can’t or won’t say, ”I love you"; may say something like, “You know how I feel, why should I have to say it." -Sabotages when things are going well— when a relationship seems to be going well, he/she sabotages or disrupts it in some way; e.g., starts arguments; suddenly acts angry or resentful; becomes passive-aggressive; doesn't keep agreements; doesn't call back; becomes overly demanding, controlling arrogant; becomes hostile, defensive, or reactive for no apparent reason; creates unnecessary drama, etc.) -Cheats or has affair/’s— establishes a sexual, romantic, or emotional relationship with another person; creates a relationship with people who are unavailable (e.g., married or already in a committed romantic relationship). -Refuses to resolve conflicts; communicate— refuses to discuss relational problems or resolve, negotiate conflicts; rebuffs sharing his/her internal or external stressors; withhold feelings, thoughts wants or needs. -Criticizes or devalues— partner becomes the “enemy”; focuses on partners flaws or imperfections; makes belittling observations (e.g., comments on way partner talks, dresses, eats, looks, or (fill in the blank); finds fault/blames partner for any current or ongoing issues); displays a negative attitude of resentment, revulsion, or dislike; disparaging comments on traits he/she found to be positive in recent past; devalues, despite partners genuine effort of being open, loving, honest, caring, supportive, etc. -Pines for past relationship (ex-girlfriend/boyfriend)— talks or thinks about a past relationship partner with a sense of craving, nostalgia, yearning, or longing for “the long lost love”; may make statements about great qualities of an ex-flame, all the while ignoring/minimizing ex’s imperfections that, in reality, what avoidant focused on in past relationship; convinces self that he/she was “the best partner I ever had”; may also dream of “the one perfect partner” who is “out there somewhere”.
* This defense may seem absurd (it is). Yet, in the Avoidants mind, this defense justifies that “I’m okay and not the problem, my partner (current) is the problem” … to them, a perfect rationale to keep a current partner at arm’s length and make him/her seem unimportant by comparison. It also sends a message that the avoidant partner “actually craves or is capable of intimacy." Don’t buy it!– dreaming of an ideal partner or ruminating about a past relationship doesn’t mean the avoidant is capable of real intimacy; the truth is in fact, they drive it away; and would do so in any romantic relationship they get in. -Flirting with others— frequently leads on, flirts, teases, or plays with other/'s seemingly potential partners or “flings” (with little or no consideration of current partners feelings) - a tactic to send a conscious or unconscious message that “I’m always on the lookout for another, you’re not that important to me”-- no doubt, this is an emotionally abusive and callous act to make a partner feel insecure, anxious, and self-doubting. As goes one quote, “Flirting is the Art of Keeping Distance." -Emotionally “checks out” of relationship— spends lots of time away from partner; displays disinterest about partner’s daily life, concerns, thoughts, views, or feelings; rarely initiates conversations and/or cuts them short; indifferent, aloof, and unconcerned attitudes; ignores or minimizes sincere caring and loving acts/behaviors by partner; exhibits a posture such as, “you’re not that important to me”, “I have more important things to do with my time”, or “Don’t bother me." -Keeps Secrets — withholds important information from partner (e.g., won’t tell how money is spent; doesn’t share what he/she is doing with their time , or persons, they spent time with when away; conceals important feelings, thoughts, or views); shares information in ways which leaves things unclear, vague, or ambiguous; may keep secrets from close family members, friends, etc. about personal or relational matters. This defense is to maintain an entrenched desire to be independent and self-reliant (all Avoidants have) * Healthy/secure relationships involve inter-dependency: a balance of independence and dependence. One extreme or the other blocks authentic interaction and intimacy, and leads to painful/unhappy relationships. -Focus is outside/away from relationship— creates external distractions; diverts essential time and energy away from relationship (e.g., being excessively preoccupied in work, hobbies, children, or other relationships); outside focus can be some addiction or compulsive behavior (e,g., porn, sex, drugs, alcohol, gambling, gaming, etc.) -- All a sure way to disengage and avoid giving a relationship time and nourishment; guaranteeing the obstruction of intimacy. Oh my word, no wonder I am feeling so down on myself. Mine told me he didn't want sex with me because how i dress. I usually wear black Jean's and a tea shirt or floaty dresses with converse trainers. Funny thing is all my friends comment on my sense of style and say I always look great. Oh and I had gained a couple of pounds. My ex also lived in the past and hated the aging process. He really got down that he wasnt 25 and good looking and desired anymore. His words not mine. It's just too sad on all involved knowing it's not intentional makes it even more sad. Having a sad day today 😪
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Jan 8, 2020 19:57:18 GMT
What is the difference? Is it possible we confuse someone who just doesn't want a "relationship" as an avoidant because they show the same signs? When I say relationship, I mean commitment, not someone who wants some form of companionship, sex, or intimacy. Could someone who we think is deactivating just be distancing themselves out of a desire to not have expectations of them? To not want to be accountable to someone? To not want to be responsible for someone else or their feelings/emotions? How do you know the difference? Non-committal AND not-avoidant will be aware of their wants, will straight up tell you directly, and will take responsibility for being the person making the choice to not be in a serious relationship (as opposed to blaming it on their partners never being the one). Avoidants will not be straight forward about it or necessarily aware that they want companionship and sex at a distance.
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jan 9, 2020 4:50:02 GMT
What is the difference? Is it possible we confuse someone who just doesn't want a "relationship" as an avoidant because they show the same signs? When I say relationship, I mean commitment, not someone who wants some form of companionship, sex, or intimacy. Could someone who we think is deactivating just be distancing themselves out of a desire to not have expectations of them? To not want to be accountable to someone? To not want to be responsible for someone else or their feelings/emotions? How do you know the difference? Non-committal AND not-avoidant will be aware of their wants, will straight up tell you directly, and will take responsibility for being the person making the choice to not be in a serious relationship (as opposed to blaming it on their partners never being the one). Avoidants will not be straight forward about it or necessarily aware that they want companionship and sex at a distance. This is a good distinction and great counter for my my “he really wasn’t avoidant” tape....because B, although not blaming me...certainly made remarks that I was not “the one”....he never said....hey, I am just looking for a casual relationship.
|
|
|
Post by beyondconfused on Jan 11, 2020 3:42:40 GMT
What is the difference? Is it possible we confuse someone who just doesn't want a "relationship" as an avoidant because they show the same signs? When I say relationship, I mean commitment, not someone who wants some form of companionship, sex, or intimacy. Could someone who we think is deactivating just be distancing themselves out of a desire to not have expectations of them? To not want to be accountable to someone? To not want to be responsible for someone else or their feelings/emotions? How do you know the difference? Non-committal AND not-avoidant will be aware of their wants, will straight up tell you directly, and will take responsibility for being the person making the choice to not be in a serious relationship (as opposed to blaming it on their partners never being the one). Avoidants will not be straight forward about it or necessarily aware that they want companionship and sex at a distance. It's strange because my recent ex seems very avoidant, but didnt blame the breakup on me. Quite confusing.
|
|
|
Post by Dualcitizen on Jan 11, 2020 4:19:04 GMT
Non-committal AND not-avoidant will be aware of their wants, will straight up tell you directly, and will take responsibility for being the person making the choice to not be in a serious relationship (as opposed to blaming it on their partners never being the one). Avoidants will not be straight forward about it or necessarily aware that they want companionship and sex at a distance. It's strange because my recent ex seems very avoidant, but didnt blame the breakup on me. Quite confusing. My F-A ex didn't either, it was her "health issues" of which she has continued issues with. Psychosomatic I would suspect from trauma. D-A's would be more akin to blame things on the other party? F-As have low self confidence and are unlikely to do that. Never dealt with a D-A to know.
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Jan 11, 2020 4:26:41 GMT
@janedoe, context seemed to be figuring out decent people who weren't trying to be intentionally manipulative. Of course there's liars and bad apples out there. But blaming yourself for them not wanting you, as if it's something you did, isn't useful in that case either.
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Jan 11, 2020 4:35:15 GMT
Non-committal AND not-avoidant will be aware of their wants, will straight up tell you directly, and will take responsibility for being the person making the choice to not be in a serious relationship (as opposed to blaming it on their partners never being the one). Avoidants will not be straight forward about it or necessarily aware that they want companionship and sex at a distance. It's strange because my recent ex seems very avoidant, but didnt blame the breakup on me. Quite confusing. beyondconfused - Mine didn’t blame me either. At first he said he didn’t know if it was him, me or us, but after several weeks he said that he felt incapable and felt like there was something wrong with him...that he’s “bad at relationships.” Avoidants can very much be self-aware and long for relationships and secure attachment at their core but at the same time they hit that brick wall that prevents them.
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Jan 11, 2020 4:44:42 GMT
It's strange because my recent ex seems very avoidant, but didnt blame the breakup on me. Quite confusing. My F-A ex didn't either, it was her "health issues" of which she has continued issues with. Psychosomatic I would suspect from trauma. D-A's would be more akin to blame things on the other party, F-As have low self confidence and are unlikely to do that. @dualcitizen - While a DA will find their partner irritating in a smothering kind of way and use his irritability as a distancing strategy, they are also realists and can be very aware. So even if not educated on attachment they know they are bad at relationships and feel better off alone- they know their limitations and feel the uphill battle to sustain an intimate relationship. They know they shut down and pull away. They’re aware, but it’s hard to change and a self-aware DA takes responsibility for his limitations and tells his partner she is better off without him.
|
|
|
Post by Dualcitizen on Jan 11, 2020 4:48:06 GMT
My F-A ex didn't either, it was her "health issues" of which she has continued issues with. Psychosomatic I would suspect from trauma. D-A's would be more akin to blame things on the other party, F-As have low self confidence and are unlikely to do that. @dualcitizen - While a DA will find their partner irritating in a smothering kind of way and use his irritability as a distancing strategy, they are also realists and can be very aware. So even if not educated on attachment they know they are bad at relationships and feel better off alone- they know their limitations and feel the uphill battle to sustain an intimate relationship. They know they shut down and pull away. They’re aware, but it’s hard to change and a self-aware DA takes responsibility for his limitations and tells his partner she is better off without him. Thankyou, also edited my comment. Don't D-As make a tonne of excuses about the partner to break up, and say as much to the partner, even if things were really fine to frame it in their mind? Would be my question?
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Jan 11, 2020 6:17:10 GMT
@dualcitizen - While a DA will find their partner irritating in a smothering kind of way and use his irritability as a distancing strategy, they are also realists and can be very aware. So even if not educated on attachment they know they are bad at relationships and feel better off alone- they know their limitations and feel the uphill battle to sustain an intimate relationship. They know they shut down and pull away. They’re aware, but it’s hard to change and a self-aware DA takes responsibility for his limitations and tells his partner she is better off without him. Thankyou, also edited my comment. Don't D-As make a tonne of excuses about the partner to break up, and say as much to the partner, even if things were really fine to frame it in their mind? Would be my question? @dualcitizen - Yes, DA’s do find faults in their partners and self-sabotage their relationships- creating self-fulfilling prophecies and negative self narratives that they’re “meant to be alone” and can only rely on themselves. However, even in their criticism and prickliness, they realize other partners have a higher tolerance for intimacy, other partners are more accepting and are more able to make it work. They recognize their own limitations and know they are “different.” So they hold themselves responsible equally to their partner or even more so for their inability to move forward and enjoy lasting intimacy.
|
|
jules
Full Member
Posts: 142
|
Post by jules on Jan 11, 2020 11:00:43 GMT
What is the difference? Is it possible we confuse someone who just doesn't want a "relationship" as an avoidant because they show the same signs? When I say relationship, I mean commitment, not someone who wants some form of companionship, sex, or intimacy. Could someone who we think is deactivating just be distancing themselves out of a desire to not have expectations of them? To not want to be accountable to someone? To not want to be responsible for someone else or their feelings/emotions? How do you know the difference? Non-committal AND not-avoidant will be aware of their wants, will straight up tell you directly, and will take responsibility for being the person making the choice to not be in a serious relationship (as opposed to blaming it on their partners never being the one). Avoidants will not be straight forward about it or necessarily aware that they want companionship and sex at a distance. This is precisely what the last guy I dated (non FA, non committal) did. He stated what was going on and owned it. He got into something and realized he's not ready. He has huge life terms to get in order. And perhaps, to play devil's advocate, it's me? Maybe he doesn't feel it with me entirely, partially, not at all? Who knows. So many variables. But he was kind and grown and articulate about what he cannot give me. Did it early on too. No time wasted. There is a definite difference.
|
|
jules
Full Member
Posts: 142
|
Post by jules on Jan 11, 2020 11:23:27 GMT
It's strange because my recent ex seems very avoidant, but didnt blame the breakup on me. Quite confusing. My F-A ex didn't either, it was her "health issues" of which she has continued issues with. Psychosomatic I would suspect from trauma. D-A's would be more akin to blame things on the other party? F-As have low self confidence and are unlikely to do that. Never dealt with a D-A to know. Trauma and somatic complaints go hand and hand. I am beginning to thing if an avoidant DA or FA would just begin trauma work this would be half the battle. Perhaps an easier sell on therapy than attachment variety. Anyway, I digress. So many ways to be traumatized that illicit the four Fs. Physical abuse creates different response than sexual abuse. What if those abuses are concurrent? What mix that creates! Trauma, from my understanding rewires the pathways within the amygdala (could totally be wrong) and requires rewiring only achieved through therapy, with a good therapist. A lube job at Pep boys is not on par with what you would get at the Dealership. Somatic complaints are very real to the individual. Toxicity resides inside. Sensory memory. So much gunk is clogging up every system. My FA never blamed me. He knew it was him. He wasn't exactly forthcoming about what he knows about himself and his issues. Perhaps manipulative. I think he enjoyed being with me and wanted to stretch it out as long as he could. I dont think he wants to hurt people. He truly loves and cares for me and my child to the best of his ability. I understand that now. Not enough for me, but that's his boundary. Life goes on for both of us. I can only fix me. I'm babbling. Lol. Too much coffee already. Wish I could still sleep in. #lifeafter40
|
|
|
Post by Helsbells on Jan 11, 2020 12:07:39 GMT
Non-committal AND not-avoidant will be aware of their wants, will straight up tell you directly, and will take responsibility for being the person making the choice to not be in a serious relationship (as opposed to blaming it on their partners never being the one). Avoidants will not be straight forward about it or necessarily aware that they want companionship and sex at a distance. It's strange because my recent ex seems very avoidant, but didnt blame the breakup on me. Quite confusing. Mine didnt blame it on me neither. He still doesn't know what he wants after two years. Even though he loved me, and on leavingleft me a note saying he Hope's I meet a better match in a man than him. So I guess he thinks we are not matched. Bare in mind he has left and come back to me many times always being the one to ask in his own avoidant way to come back. This ends for me now. My mental health cannot take it anymore. I know it's not his fault and has always been this way but doesn't appear at the moment to want to get help for himself.
|
|
|
Post by Helsbells on Jan 11, 2020 12:16:40 GMT
My F-A ex didn't either, it was her "health issues" of which she has continued issues with. Psychosomatic I would suspect from trauma. D-A's would be more akin to blame things on the other party? F-As have low self confidence and are unlikely to do that. Never dealt with a D-A to know. Trauma and somatic complaints go hand and hand. I am beginning to thing if an avoidant DA or FA would just begin trauma work this would be half the battle. Perhaps an easier sell on therapy than attachment variety. Anyway, I digress. So many ways to be traumatized that illicit the four Fs. Physical abuse creates different response than sexual abuse. What if those abuses are concurrent? What mix that creates! Trauma, from my understanding rewires the pathways within the amygdala (could totally be wrong) and requires rewiring only achieved through therapy, with a good therapist. A lube job at Pep boys is not on par with what you would get at the Dealership. Somatic complaints are very real to the individual. Toxicity resides inside. Sensory memory. So much gunk is clogging up every system. My FA never blamed me. He knew it was him. He wasn't exactly forthcoming about what he knows about himself and his issues. Perhaps manipulative. I think he enjoyed being with me and wanted to stretch it out as long as he could. I dont think he wants to hurt people. He truly loves and cares for me and my child to the best of his ability. I understand that now. Not enough for me, but that's his boundary. Life goes on for both of us. I can only fix me. I'm babbling. Lol. Too much coffee already. Wish I could still sleep in. #lifeafter40 This is so good Jules thank you for posting it.
|
|