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Post by femmefatale on Jan 16, 2020 20:50:49 GMT
Hello I'm new here and to attachment theory. I've read a few books regarding it (attached etc) but i'm curious about a few more things.
Do avoidants typically act very invested at the beginning to the point that they suggest and move cities to be with someone?
Is it possible that an avoidant cant start off as secure (plenty of intimacy and emotional communication) and then due to circumstances (conflict) switch into avoidant. Or were they avoidant all along?
Why would an avoidant stay in a relationship when they've obviously felt the need to deactivate so intensely? why not just end the relationship to feel the release?
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cukie
New Member
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Post by cukie on Jan 16, 2020 21:53:34 GMT
So this is just my experience - so take it with a grain of salt.
I find avoidants can be sucked up in the honeymoon phase just like anyone else. And sometimes, especially in the opening months of a relationship, they come off as more secure because the commitment hasn't quite begun to stifle them yet - though i find if you look back some of the red flags were always present. In my personal experience things started off pretty great, and just kind of progressively got worse and worse after like, the 6 month mark. This is because while things are more surface level its great, but as the emotional requirements of a relationship deepen they become less content.
Also avoidance is also a conflict resolution style and relationships are not the only thing that activates the self-soothing mechanism. So a stressed DA is going to be even less accessible than a regular DA. Factor that in with the idea that DA's typically place relationships as a fairly low priority in their lives and it can be especially rough for their partner.
As to your last question, its not as though DA's don't love or care about their partner. Its also not like they despise every aspect of the relationship. Its also not like they don't want love and affection - its just during or after receiving it they need to shut down.This is the natural course for them,and if the relationship fits snugly in this course than DA's probably aren't having a miserable time.
The problem is that this routine doesn't sit well with (most) other people who need consistent affection, and so both needs clash and eventually do cause the DA to feel stressed and smothered..
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Post by femmefatale on Jan 16, 2020 22:14:25 GMT
I'm trying to better understand if my partner has DA or FA. I suppose ultimately it doesnt matter in the end but I found throughout the relationship she was the one bidding more than I was, she would often times text me throughout the day and when I wouldnt repond she'd send joking texts about me paying attention to her more.
If i went out with friends and didnt text her while i was out she would eventually become irritated and say she wished i would just respond occasionally or tell her that I'm too busy to talk. To me it came off as she was wanting my attention even when I was unavailable.
I'm confused as to how she can behave this way and then after our conflicts got too much and she cried (my first and only time seeing her cry) she shut down slowly and then completely as we talked more about the relationship. She barely shows intimacy ( although I'm seeing improvement in that she at least texts me and makes an effort to talk to me, lets me know what shes up to during the day when she had ceased to do this completely for a month)
I've also noticed despite her wanting her space and deactivating...if i give her space shes unhappy with this...in that i was getting ready to go out for drinks with someone and forgot to mention who and she looked irritated at the time.
when i brought up sexual intimacy and told her I feel like i dont want to push it since things have been all over, she said she wanted me to still initiate and not wait for her to initiate....but she hasnt made an effort at all to initiate. I'm confused by this behavior because im giving her the space and not pushing and shes sending mixed messages.
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Post by femmefatale on Jan 16, 2020 22:29:50 GMT
Like i know shes likely avoidant for sure, just based on her upbringing. I'm just confused by this strange "come to me, but also stay away" mentality.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 16, 2020 23:24:39 GMT
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Post by femmefatale on Jan 16, 2020 23:37:57 GMT
Actually as i was doing more research on it i found she likely fits FA more than DA. shes had some trauma happen in the past that was pretty severe. i was fooled by her level of high self esteem...like shes never talked about herself badly ever...but clearly this might just have been a mask for her persona.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 16, 2020 23:54:00 GMT
Actually as i was doing more research on it i found she likely fits FA more than DA. shes had some trauma happen in the past that was pretty severe. i was fooled by her level of high self esteem...like shes never talked about herself badly ever...but clearly this might just have been a mask for her persona. It's not necessarily low self esteem in the conventional way. It may manifest as weak / inconsistent identity, or ambivalence due to distrust of self / disconnection from self (so not knowing what you want or need). It often appears as validation-seeking from others (like when you don't respond as quickly as would placate her anxiety). FA can adopt a false persona or people please instead of communicate honestly, as this may have worked to placate scary adults in childhood and they didn't learn other techniques or grow out of it as they got older. Doing that long enough can create a type of dissociation because they had to push down their true selves so hard, but they don't necessarily realize this because it started young enough that they may not remember it any other way. |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 17, 2020 0:00:40 GMT
And actually, most people come here about FAs without realizing it. A lot assume the partner is DA at first, because they've read about avoidants and there's not as much information about FA except that they're "rare." I suspect we usually see people actually seeking answers for FA more than true DAs because I'd bet a lot of people would eventually write true DAs off as not that into me (though it's not what's actually going on), whereas the contradictory behaviors of FA make people more like to actually seek answers as the relationship continues longer but also goes in circles.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 17, 2020 0:41:20 GMT
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Post by mrob on Jan 17, 2020 1:31:31 GMT
And actually, most people come here about FAs without realizing it. A lot assume the partner is DA at first, because they've read about avoidants and there's not as much information about FA except that they're "rare." I suspect we usually see people actually seeking answers for FA more than true DAs because I'd bet a lot of people would eventually write true DAs off as not that into me (though it's not what's actually going on), whereas the contradictory behaviors of FA make people more like to actually seek answers as the relationship continues longer but also goes in circles. Absolutely. |
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Post by femmefatale on Jan 17, 2020 12:33:28 GMT
So now that I’ve realized this FA pattern and cycle, I should be consistent with my behaviour to show trust and not push her to realize her FA behaviour right? Because I truly and I’m all honesty feel that the FA behaviour only started either when we were arguing and she began questioning the trust of me jot hurting her or when she moved here.
Both started happening around the same time, but even after the arguing and her moving her the very obvious behaviour didn’t happen until she had that crying episode saying she wasn’t sure if we ever were going to get through resolving our conflicts and how she was losing hope but wanted to try and fix us.
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Post by annieb on Jan 17, 2020 15:32:46 GMT
Hello I'm new here and to attachment theory. I've read a few books regarding it (attached etc) but i'm curious about a few more things. Do avoidants typically act very invested at the beginning to the point that they suggest and move cities to be with someone? Is it possible that an avoidant cant start off as secure (plenty of intimacy and emotional communication) and then due to circumstances (conflict) switch into avoidant. Or were they avoidant all along? Why would an avoidant stay in a relationship when they've obviously felt the need to deactivate so intensely? why not just end the relationship to feel the release? My last DA acted invested and then went in and out of being dismissive and being interested for the rest of the relationship, with dismissive episodes being more frequent as the relationship progressed. I’m sure FAs can have similar qualities. Although I am a FA according to a test, but I don’t ever remember acting like that. That would just be plain cruel. Anyway, I haven’t read any positive outcomes on these boards with a lot of these relationships. Many a times I find it’s codependent of me to try to analyze the other person and the focus should be on myself. I recommend that you periodically check where your focus is. |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 17, 2020 18:49:49 GMT
So now that I’ve realized this FA pattern and cycle, I should be consistent with my behaviour to show trust and not push her to realize her FA behaviour right? Because I truly and I’m all honesty feel that the FA behaviour only started either when we were arguing and she began questioning the trust of me jot hurting her or when she moved here. Both started happening around the same time, but even after the arguing and her moving her the very obvious behaviour didn’t happen until she had that crying episode saying she wasn’t sure if we ever were going to get through resolving our conflicts and how she was losing hope but wanted to try and fix us. The challenge is her attachment style developed out of trauma and has little to nothing to do with you. That means you can't fix what you didn't break. It's up to her to want to address her own issues, and it's hard and painful individual work that takes years to overcome. You need to be committed and motivated as an individual, even when it feels painful, heal trauma, and recondition your entire nervous system to stop shutting down and/or getting anxiously overwhelmed. Plus you need to learn healthy coping and communication skills you likely didn't learn earlier in life. So in these situations, the only thing you can really do is focus on yourself and if your desire to be with a partner with insecure attachment reflects on existing insecurity in your own attachment style. I've been with partners of all attachment styles, mostly avoidant (because I was AP, which led to me having to do years of work to earn secure out of that). I can assure you that no matter how I've acted, my avoidant partners have cycled the same way every time because they're stuck in their own patterns independent of anyone else. I was doing the same, stuck in my own patterns, when I was AP. The only real difference was usually in the amount of time it would take for the behavior to eventually come out. I even had an LTR FA ex I got back together with. The first time I was AP, the second I was on the verge of secure, and my behavior was totally different both times. His cycles of behavior were exactly the same. If you are being a fair, consistent, communicative, and mature partner with healthy boundaries and you're not being abusive or manipulative, you're doing what you can and should be doing. The partner will get triggered even if you've got secure attachment (and is even more likely to get triggered if you've got an insecure attachment style yourself, as you'll trigger each other). Then it's up to each individual to be committed to being as healthy of a partner as possible, but a lot of unaware insecure attachers don't know what that means. You haven't mentioned your attachment style, but even if you're secure, you can't convince someone else to do that, especially for the relationship. It's a very individual journey and process. |
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Post by femmefatale on Jan 17, 2020 20:04:25 GMT
That's very fair and reasonable. I understand that those would have to be her own desires to work on herself. I suppose because this wasn't persistent throughout our relationship and only began when we had multiple conflicts that increased in intensity that I'm confused by the ability to be secure at one point ( or appear to be that way) and not all the sudden. I understand that these are deep rooted things in us that we ourselves need to address, I've been spending a lot of time evaluating the level of patience / what the fine line is in my boundaries in the relationship.
My attachment style is secure/was secure until I was triggered by her very very obvious level of deactivating. Even with arguments we always talked about them openly after and the ways in which we could both improve. There was no deactivation until the conflicts kept getting unresolved. We found out the root of our conflicts and ways to manage disagreements quickly when we realized how it was impacting us, but despite this and our lack of arguments it appears shes shut down. I brought up the issue of it to her a few times and she has shown signs of opening up more again ( before I read attachment theory I honestly thought she just needed more time to trust me), but she continued with deactivating behavior that was cold and distant and this triggered my anxiety. Which caused a huge cycle of push pull with us, and I realized I needed to figure out what was going on with me ( initially I thought it was because I already was in an anxious state due to my family issues when I came out) but then I realized through research about attachment theory. I was shocked to find I had regressed to a less secure attachment when I had focused 4 years of being single to figure myself out).
The current state of our relationship is that I decided once I found out about attachment theory to focus on healing myself back to a secure person, for my own benefit as I really disliked the persistent anxiety I was in. She decided she wanted to move out and I accepted her decision as I cannot control what makes someone feel safe (also she moved in at a hectic time when I had come out and was anxious non-stop about the hurt I felt over my family reacting so maliciously and cold). It has been a month of her slowly staring to open up again, but the deactivation persists and our sexual intimacy is a 0. She has been to therapy before to deal with her hurt after her past relationship and address how to move forward from there, so she isn't new to personal growth...I suppose I just focus on myself further and evaluate what my limits are in my patience with dealing with her slowly trusting me again, and should she want the help I will offer it, but otherwise make my own decisions.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 17, 2020 20:16:03 GMT
femmefatale, it can take several months for attachment behaviors to kick in. There's usually hints if you know what you're looking for, but it's not uncommon for someone to seem okay in the relationship until it gets more serious and suddenly their subconscious jumps to hey wait. This person IS going to stick around -- time to panic. Another thing that may happen is things have stayed on a fantasy level until the first fight. Insecure attachers have really big problems with fights, and I've been in situations where we never fought because someone was pushing down true needs to avoid fights, and thought any normal relationship argument meant the relationship wasn't 100% perfect 100% of the time and therefore should end. It's a reflection of the unstable foundation of the relationship, but it's due to the pre-existing attachment wounding and control issues and inability to do proper conflict resolution and repair, not due to the relationship itself. On a separate note, I'm really sorry to hear you were met with animosity when you came out  That can be really traumatic, and can definitely create new trust issues in your life and impact your own security, too. I hate how common of a response that is in our society.
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That can be really traumatic, and can definitely create new trust issues in your life and impact your own security, too. I hate how common of a response that is in our society.