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Post by kibbins on Feb 5, 2020 5:53:57 GMT
Last thing, I am not going to the couples therapist, it was rather expensive (we were going to split it), although I will continue going to my own therapist. So I canceled with her over e-mail. She sent me a PDF regarding our communication patterns (like this basically: www.drsuejohnson.com/where-does-love-go-wrong/that she asked me to forward to him and told me to be kind of myself. So I am vacillating between forwarding her email and letting him know I canceled it, or not saying anything, as I feel that e-mail with the PDF forward should have some text in it and I don't really know what to say, something to the point of I canceled this bc I don't feel comfortable being the only one doing the work and I need to focus on myself bc I can't nor do I want to fix him - it's something he needs to want for himself, but not those words exactly. |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 5, 2020 6:58:35 GMT
kibbins, I have never personally met a couple that had a totally different / better marriage than they did courtship. People get even more the way they already are as time goes on and they're comfortable. Him saying things would be different if he was willing to commit to you on an engaged / married level is selling you (and possibly himself) a fantasy. One that gives him control of the situation, too (as if it's his decision to make that level of commitment). If you canceled the appointment, I'd just leave it and not say anything to him if he doesn't reach out first. If he does reach out, tell him you canceled the appointment, send him the info from the couples therapist, and ask about your cookware. He may eventually come back trying to win you over and restarting the cycle. But as you just wrote in your post, so far you've watched his same patterns happen repeatedly after you get together. There's no real reason this is going to change if he shuts down when you have conflict, runs away, and isn't dealing with his issues (ie starting fights to have an excuse to stonewall instead of following through on couples therapy).
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Post by kittygirl on Feb 5, 2020 15:19:37 GMT
-When me and D split, after a few weeks, he starts going to the gym and it seems like he actually starts having a healthy lifestyle and feeling better.. And every time we reunite after a couple weeks he falls off his gym routine and becomes insanely depressed, even though he is happy that I am in his life, it doesn't seem healthy for him to be with someone, like he starts to be on edge.. like it is causing him trauma? Even if we are doing good this happens. WOW Kibbins this is so weird because it's EXACTLY what happened to me. When we stop talking he starts eating healthy and going to the gym and feeling good....once we start talking again he starts smoking a lot of weed and getting really depressed. Just had to comment because I hadn't seen someone mention this before but I have had the exact same experience. |
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Post by annieb on Feb 5, 2020 15:24:31 GMT
-When me and D split, after a few weeks, he starts going to the gym and it seems like he actually starts having a healthy lifestyle and feeling better.. And every time we reunite after a couple weeks he falls off his gym routine and becomes insanely depressed, even though he is happy that I am in his life, it doesn't seem healthy for him to be with someone, like he starts to be on edge.. like it is causing him trauma? Even if we are doing good this happens. WOW Kibbins this is so weird because it's EXACTLY what happened to me. When we stop talking he starts eating healthy and going to the gym and feeling good....once we start talking again he starts smoking a lot of weed and getting really depressed. Just had to comment because I hadn't seen someone mention this before but I have had the exact same experience. Wow same here. But we were exercising together a lot, which Probably made it even more stressful for him. Poor guy, I think of him sometimes, he must have felt horrible next to me even though those were all his projections it must have still been a nightmare. Best to leave these guys in the past for sure. |
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Post by kibbins on Feb 5, 2020 21:43:29 GMT
-When me and D split, after a few weeks, he starts going to the gym and it seems like he actually starts having a healthy lifestyle and feeling better.. And every time we reunite after a couple weeks he falls off his gym routine and becomes insanely depressed, even though he is happy that I am in his life, it doesn't seem healthy for him to be with someone, like he starts to be on edge.. like it is causing him trauma? Even if we are doing good this happens. WOW Kibbins this is so weird because it's EXACTLY what happened to me. When we stop talking he starts eating healthy and going to the gym and feeling good....once we start talking again he starts smoking a lot of weed and getting really depressed. Just had to comment because I hadn't seen someone mention this before but I have had the exact same experience. Crazy. On the other hand, maybe that's their coping mechanism when they're alone? Re: the gym. I don't know. Anyway, wow strange. Ya every time we split he gets super healthy and going to the gym every day. then get back together and eats shitty, starts getting acne, zero gym, starts chewing dip at night (ew), too much beer etc |
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Post by kibbins on Feb 5, 2020 21:44:37 GMT
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Post by Dualcitizen on Feb 5, 2020 21:56:55 GMT
Interesting. My question would be from experience. I showed true unconditional love and communication to my F-A, and she retreated "overwhelmed", literal words in effect, when I merely said I wish to work through whatever needed to be worked through, because at the time, I knew something was up, but not a Fearful-Avoidant attachment and CPTSD. My argument would be, unless at least the insecure attached person "awakens", it's a waste of time what they're talking about in that document. It only matters if two people are also willing to work on things, even a secure attached person to these types of issues, as they may walk away and think it's not worth it. |
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Post by dhali on Feb 6, 2020 3:44:27 GMT
I’m fa. A slight one. Somehow, someway, through spiritual work, I got myself relatively secure (before I knew about attachment theory). But still fa. Which means, I’ll most likely leave you. I’m not currently in a relationship, so it’s tough for me to say if I’m cured. You asked about sex life- for me, after the honeymoon phase, I don’t want it anymore. I shut that part of intimacy off. I’m a guy btw. I never ever understood this, but do now, under the fa framework. I enjoy the hell out of holding you, but that’s where my intimacy ends. As I’ve said before, my poor ex wife. And with all my gf’s since, I’ve sorta been searching for someone I can have that continued sexual interest with as it’s great during the honeymoon. And it’s not a sex drive issue. At all. It’s just sex with my significant other. I should also note that I prefer sex to be intimate, and don’t much enjoy just having sex or getting off. There’s also historically been a bit of self consciousness with sex. And I’ve had a lot (I went on a tear after divorce) so you wouldn’t think so. I don’t know, I worry I’ll never figure this part of my life out. I've had no sexual trauma.
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Post by annieb on Feb 6, 2020 13:56:18 GMT
I’m fa. A slight one. Somehow, someway, through spiritual work, I got myself relatively secure (before I knew about attachment theory). But still fa. Which means, I’ll most likely leave you. I’m not currently in a relationship, so it’s tough for me to say if I’m cured. You asked about sex life- for me, after the honeymoon phase, I don’t want it anymore. I shut that part of intimacy off. I’m a guy btw. I never ever understood this, but do now, under the fa framework. I enjoy the hell out of holding you, but that’s where my intimacy ends. As I’ve said before, my poor ex wife. And with all my gf’s since, I’ve sorta been searching for someone I can have that continued sexual interest with as it’s great during the honeymoon. And it’s not a sex drive issue. At all. It’s just sex with my significant other. I should also note that I prefer sex to be intimate, and don’t much enjoy just having sex or getting off. There’s also historically been a bit of self consciousness with sex. And I’ve had a lot (I went on a tear after divorce) so you wouldn’t think so. I don’t know, I worry I’ll never figure this part of my life out. I've had no sexual trauma. Just FYI past sexual trauma sometimes doesn’t come up unless you’re in therapy. I’m a former FA (but I wouldn’t know niw since I’m single also) and I didn’t remember my molestation until I was in therapy at age 35. I don’t mean to be a downer. Another thing is that a lot of FAs and DAs have this as a self preservation distancing technique - to stop having intimacy - so I would look into that, also. You sound way on your way to healing and self awareness. |
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Post by mrob on Feb 6, 2020 16:48:05 GMT
dhali As a child I heard really bad things about men. Never towards me, but in groups of women when I really should have been playing outside. Sex was dirty. It was thrust upon women and used as a tool. Women didn’t want selfish sex, they wanted to be held. I always felt guilty initiating, so seldom did, even though I was supposed to have worked through that stuff. It didn’t take too much to stop initiating when it became too difficult. The irony? Nothing works anymore, and I miss being held.
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Post by dhali on Feb 6, 2020 18:19:19 GMT
Ha! add to that, the current climate. I want to be clear here that I do agree that toxic masculinity is a real thing, and relatively rampant. We live in an age, where I now, am expected, depending on the woman I'm with (and it's not clear who is who initially), to ask for consent on everything I do. Hold hands, kiss, hold. That just sucks all the romance out of it for me, and makes me make no move anymore. I'm not going to ask for consent to kiss a woman. If you don't want the kiss, turn your head. I have also been reamed out on a date for expressing this pov before (It was the first time and last time I'd ever bring it up). Basically how could I even consider not asking for consent to kiss and how women are targets, etc. How I will never know what it's like to be a woman in this world (duh), etc. Sigh. It doesn't help my situation.
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Post by dhali on Feb 6, 2020 18:45:41 GMT
janedoe- I personally feel there is nothign wrong with the man making the move, and there is nothing wrong with you rebuffing the move. The issue I have now, is that the move has to become robotic with an extra step of - I would like to know if you're ok if I touch your hand. F that. I don't even want to be on a date like that. That's about as romantic as a visit to the dentists office.
As for you being out if touched by someone. Well, it's not as if keno isn't a real thing. And it's not a sexualized thing. It's a thing. It works. Even for friends.
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Post by dhali on Feb 6, 2020 18:55:03 GMT
It is a red flag that you avoided the move. read up on Mark Manson's Fuck Yes or No. You're certainly not a fuck yes. I'd move on, pretty much right away. No hurt feelings, you're just not a fuck yes.
Also, it's not to avoid being sued. The stakes are much higher now. Now it could be considered assault.
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Post by kibbins on Feb 6, 2020 19:39:53 GMT
I’m fa. A slight one. Somehow, someway, through spiritual work, I got myself relatively secure (before I knew about attachment theory). But still fa. Which means, I’ll most likely leave you. I’m not currently in a relationship, so it’s tough for me to say if I’m cured. You asked about sex life- for me, after the honeymoon phase, I don’t want it anymore. I shut that part of intimacy off. I’m a guy btw. I never ever understood this, but do now, under the fa framework. I enjoy the hell out of holding you, but that’s where my intimacy ends. As I’ve said before, my poor ex wife. And with all my gf’s since, I’ve sorta been searching for someone I can have that continued sexual interest with as it’s great during the honeymoon. And it’s not a sex drive issue. At all. It’s just sex with my significant other. I should also note that I prefer sex to be intimate, and don’t much enjoy just having sex or getting off. There’s also historically been a bit of self consciousness with sex. And I’ve had a lot (I went on a tear after divorce) so you wouldn’t think so. I don’t know, I worry I’ll never figure this part of my life out. I've had no sexual trauma. So this is basically exactly like this guy.... Can I ask how old you are? He is 34. Anyway, looks like this won't be changing....... As to the rest of this thread, it might be because of this guy, but I now have pretty bad intimacy issues. Every time Ive tried to move on now I will cringe if anyone makes a move and never speak to them again. I have def never been into guys verbally asking for permission to kiss me though! That would be a turnoff for me. |
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Post by kibbins on Feb 6, 2020 19:40:09 GMT
ALSO I sent him the PDF and let him know I canceled the appt. THIS IS HIS RESPONSE:
"Hey! Thanks for this. Will check out ASAP. Lmk if you want to watch oscars sun night. I’m hosting party. Currently it’s me, Maddie (my dog), guitar guy downstairs (this is a jk- its his horrible neighbor who makes too much noise)."
Ugh.
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