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Post by Dualcitizen on Feb 7, 2020 8:53:06 GMT
Good post. 3 things: - you mention the first boyfriend. Your not currently with your first bf, was that a secure/secure pairing? If not, you’re using an insecure attachment as evidence against the philosophy. - really? You’re going to feel a mutual fuck yes and not proceed? Really? That’s tough to buy. Dopamine is a strong motivator. Once the flirting starts and gets going.... I just don’t see attachment type getting considered here. - if both parties are practicing fuck yes or no, with insecure connections, you’ll get to a no sooner rather than later. Isn’t that a good thing? These aren’t healthy relationships. Nothing wrong with some mutual fuck yes-ing going on. Ok a fourth thing  - the insecure who never feels a fuck yes because of ambivalence . Should they be in a relationship? Could it be healthy? The other thing to note, is the philosophy is not hormone based. You are allowed to define the parameters of what you’re yes or no about. Am I f-yes about starting a relationship with a person I think might be ambivalent? No. That’s not a hormone question. no, I was not secure with my first BF. strangely enough we were both AP! but are we arguing here that the fuck yes can only be applied to secure people?? I think many people, both secure and non secure, have developed feelings for someone over time; started off as friends for example and then as they get to know the person, they begin to fall for them. so it doesn't have to be a strong fuck yes from the get go. I know many long term r/ships that began like this. so if these people were to walk away at the start if there wasn't a fuck yes immedietely, they may never have given their partner a chance. I agree that with a strong fuck yes its hard walk away if you see red flags for example; but since my recent experience with my ex and the pain that caused, and now knowing about attachment, I'm going to proceed with great caution regarding strong fuck yeses. your fourth question.... I don't know, can they?? ive never been in a long term r/ship where I'm ambivalent, I'm always two feet in, so I can't relate. in fairness to the other person maybe they shouldn't be in a r/ship until they sort their shit out enough to be more certain. I agree that things can change, feelings can grow, not there initially, but you see other qualities, and have a trigger that makes you want to date over time. Seen both. Whirlwinds rarely last. Only 2 secures would last such a thing imao. There needs to be stability to literally save the insane limerence. Two insecures aren't going to survive a whirlwind. |
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Post by iz42 on Feb 7, 2020 8:59:49 GMT
Ha ha. Fuck yes until you trigger my mother wounds and then I throw you out like an old banana skin Or f*ck yes because you triggered my wounds the moment we met! Yeah. At one time in my life the f yes thing would have made a lot of sense. But now I am very cautious when I’m first getting to know someone and I try to watch my own reactions. The “f yes” attitude has led me to move too fast without really knowing someone first, and it created unnecessary heartbreak. This feels like a more mature approach, honestly. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Feb 7, 2020 9:00:49 GMT
MM. yes, in my current dating, i didn't care if I felt a fuck yes because that was proven a poor indicator or predictor of the relationship I desire to have, particularly because fuck yeses were generally triggered by avoidants. I only cared if it was a fuck no - then I cut it off immediately. I also shut down strong physical desires in the sense that I take note of how I felt about this person, but don't take too much note of it as a motivator. Hence, I don't bother too much with flirting the way i did before (more sexual, open, welcoming) because i think it confounds the compatibility assessment; i do it for fun only. having sex with my current partner was an action that was not borne out of lust and attraction, it was a choice to get involved with him more deeply after I have seen how he is/deals with other more important things that I now place as necessary conditions. of course, during the dating period, there was physical intimacy to assess if there was attraction and some level of compatibility, but sex was really delayed till we really wanted to be together and that was our final step to commitment. for sure there are many many men who think this is a red flag - that I'm holding off intimacy and choosing to act on it consciously and fully willingly that is not motivated by physical desire. men think that it's a sign i'm frigid or think that they cannot assess compatibility without it. that's fine by me, I totally understand their need to assess me in their own ways. it also tells me, he's assessing physical compatibility first before others, which is completely fine, but not how I wish my relationships will be. I was not sure about my current partner either, like amber. I didn't have a "fuck no" so i was open to the possibility, and choosing to do a relationship with him was a conscious, deliberate, thoughtful decision that had nothing to do with hormones. All I knew is that when i'm with him, I'm calm and i could be more or less myself - no nos, no yeses; just quiet. i definitely was interested in giving it a go since it was so different from other relationships I've had, so I think there're different meaning/levels to fuck yes, and relationships can evolve differently and from various points. I love this post!! This is how I would like to proceed with future relationships, as I have always just acted on a whim based on strong attraction in the past.my recent ex FA was incredibly handsome and I have to admit it was a strong driver in keeping me with him, amongst other things of course. But had he been a lot less physically attentive I do wonder if it would have been easier to walk away. Gosh sounds so vein. I think a lot of people just jump into r/ships based on attraction, which as we know is often just your attachment system being activated; or the chemistry based on old wounding. So not an indicator to dive into a r/ship, even if it is a strong yes. I would like to be more logical in my decision making going forward, but we are mostly autonomically emotionally driven creatures. I plan to take a year off men and dating and work on becoming secure, I have a solid plan in place based on some serious research about changing attachment styles. I agree that feeling calm with a potential partner rather than massive sexual chemistry and butterfly’s/longing is a good sign, as long as there is compatibility and some level of attraction. I beleive with my recent ex i prioristed getting my immediate little girl needs met (touch, affection, compliments) over adult needs like commitment, reliability, loyalty etc You need straight out attraction, I went for a "slow burn", never worked. you need spark. If that isn't there you're in big trouble longer term imao. There needs to be the "emotional connection", but that isn't just sex, it's intellectual and talking as well. Problem is I suspect for an insecure is, you are drawn to other wounded people via demeanour and potentially what they say pending on the 4F response exaggeration? You also maybe referring to the "whirlwind" scenario? I've never been sucked into that, my F-A ex. tried, I slowed it. I personally regardless, have a healthy sort of neutrality when dating, regardless of whether i'm massively attracted. I certainly initially only set one date a week, don't really even text that much, due to not wanting to ruin the experience (am busy with my business as well). some text a million times between meeting and first date, couldn't think of anything worse to ruin anticipation and that face to face interaction. |
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Post by amber on Feb 7, 2020 10:53:40 GMT
I love this post!! This is how I would like to proceed with future relationships, as I have always just acted on a whim based on strong attraction in the past.my recent ex FA was incredibly handsome and I have to admit it was a strong driver in keeping me with him, amongst other things of course. But had he been a lot less physically attentive I do wonder if it would have been easier to walk away. Gosh sounds so vein. I think a lot of people just jump into r/ships based on attraction, which as we know is often just your attachment system being activated; or the chemistry based on old wounding. So not an indicator to dive into a r/ship, even if it is a strong yes. I would like to be more logical in my decision making going forward, but we are mostly autonomically emotionally driven creatures. I plan to take a year off men and dating and work on becoming secure, I have a solid plan in place based on some serious research about changing attachment styles. I agree that feeling calm with a potential partner rather than massive sexual chemistry and butterfly’s/longing is a good sign, as long as there is compatibility and some level of attraction. I beleive with my recent ex i prioristed getting my immediate little girl needs met (touch, affection, compliments) over adult needs like commitment, reliability, loyalty etc You need straight out attraction, I went for a "slow burn", never worked. you need spark. If that isn't there you're in big trouble longer term imao. There needs to be the "emotional connection", but that isn't just sex, it's intellectual and talking as well. Problem is I suspect for an insecure is, you are drawn to other wounded people via demeanour and potentially what they say pending on the 4F response exaggeration? You also maybe referring to the "whirlwind" scenario? I've never been sucked into that, my F-A ex. tried, I slowed it. I personally regardless, have a healthy sort of neutrality when dating, regardless of whether i'm massively attracted. I certainly initially only set one date a week, don't really even text that much, due to not wanting to ruin the experience (am busy with my business as well). some text a million times between meeting and first date, couldn't think of anything worse to ruin anticipation and that face to face interaction. The slow burn does work for some people though,I have friends that this has happened to and they are in happy long term relationships. It may not work for you but that doesn’t mean it’s universal. With my first partner, we were together for almost four years, and it was definelty slow burn, my attraction built slowly for him over time, and I fell in love with him slowly. It was never an intense, chemical filled type of love, but it was a lovely feeling all the same. I was young and inexperienced though, but the r/ship did work, even though we were both AP |
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Post by anne12 on Feb 7, 2020 11:01:56 GMT
There are actually couples who don't feel attraction right away but where love grows over time. I can't remember the exact percentage. (Just as amber says) |
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Post by kibbins on Feb 7, 2020 18:48:14 GMT
So I never responded to his email
About the fuck yes or no stuff, lol I agree that with the attachment stuff it goes out the window. Another thing I always thought that people say is “If he/she likes you, you’ll know. If he doesn’t, you’ll be confused.”
Lol... more like if he has insecure attachment you’ll be confused anyway
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Post by kibbins on Feb 7, 2020 18:48:29 GMT
ALSO I sent him the PDF and let him know I canceled the appt. THIS IS HIS RESPONSE: "Hey! Thanks for this. Will check out ASAP. Lmk if you want to watch oscars sun night. I’m hosting party. Currently it’s me, Maddie (my dog), guitar guy downstairs (this is a jk- its his horrible neighbor who makes too much noise)." Ugh. I wouldn't even reply, like ever again. How insulting on so many levels. Yep! |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 7, 2020 21:13:06 GMT
So I never responded to his email Good for you! Focus on yourself. You deserve better. |
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Post by amber on Feb 7, 2020 21:21:14 GMT
So I never responded to his email About the fuck yes or no stuff, lol I agree that with the attachment stuff it goes out the window. Another thing I always thought that people say is “If he/she likes you, you’ll know. If he doesn’t, you’ll be confused.” Lol... more like if he has insecure attachment you’ll be confused anyway What does “like” even mean? I like you right now. I like you enough to sleep with you. I like you enough to hang out. I like you as a friend. I like you to have your companionship for three months. I like you enough to be with you as long as things feel good. I like you because I’m in a bad place right now. I like you because you like me and I need validation. So, no. Someone showing interest doesn’t mean much until it’s over a long period of time with consistency plus discussions on shared goals and values. Ha ha love this People can be so flaky with liking someone one minute and then changing their mind the next. I’ve fallen into the trap of believing I have something with a man after a few months because he likes me. People can drop you like a hot potato unfortunatly. In future I won’t be giving too much credit to any dynamic until at least a year in, with consistent signs through action of commitment and reliability.im astounded at how many people (I’m referring mainly to my female friends here) get overly excited and go on and on about a man they like after one or two dates...I think most people live in absolute fantasy about meeting a person and then projecting their longing and desires onto them |
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Post by kibbins on Feb 9, 2020 6:57:31 GMT
Update- he texted me now asking again if I want to watch the Oscars with him tomorrow
I said I have plans.
He then asked if I “still wanted to go somewhere for V-day”
I didn’t respond.
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Post by kibbins on Feb 9, 2020 6:59:30 GMT
Btw.... I have been “hanging out” with a guy who seems to lean pretty AP. I find myself acting very DA with him. I don’t think I will be able to give him what he needs. So..basically now I’m my ex.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 9, 2020 9:12:02 GMT
kibbins, makes complete sense that you'd be emotionally unavailable / avoidant after your situation. You need to heal before seriously entertaining anyone new. Plus your pre-existing attachment stuff. Let the AP down lightly, maybe look for someone in the mindset of something casual while you focus on yourself and recovering from all this. And, an AP is a bad candidate for casual!
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Post by annieb on Feb 9, 2020 13:42:47 GMT
Update- he texted me now asking again if I want to watch the Oscars with him tomorrow I said I have plans. He then asked if I “still wanted to go somewhere for V-day” I didn’t respond. Kibbins, I think you still need to have a phone conversation with you Ex to seal the deal - actual breakup convo from you. Say you piece and hang up, block. Otherwise he will weasel his way back in if you keep texting. |
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