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Post by alexandra on Feb 8, 2020 23:32:51 GMT
And I have read all the posts on the FA board and can’t see any stories of relationships with an FA actually working out. Seems like 100 % fail rate. Unless the people having successful r/ships with FA don’t come back here to update us?! Lol there's no way people would be that invested with sharing and then not come back to say either that they were indeed the exception, or to say they figured out the magic formula and want to share it too. There is a bias in who is here, though. Usually people first find the board because the FA relationship has already hit trouble. Noticing the 100% fail rate was so important for me in letting go of my FA LTR ex, though. It's sad to read, but very empowering, too.
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Post by amber on Feb 8, 2020 23:46:08 GMT
And I have read all the posts on the FA board and can’t see any stories of relationships with an FA actually working out. Seems like 100 % fail rate. Unless the people having successful r/ships with FA don’t come back here to update us?! Lol there's no way people would be that invested with sharing and then not come back to say either that they were indeed the exception, or to say they figured out the magic formula and want to share it too. There is a bias in who is here, though. Usually people first find the board because the FA relationship has already hit trouble. Noticing the 100% fail rate was so important for me in letting go of my FA LTR ex, though. It's sad to read, but very empowering, too. I can guarantee that if I had a r/ship with an FA that was working I would be all over the boards here letting you all know lol!
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Post by stu on Feb 9, 2020 2:01:36 GMT
Lol there's no way people would be that invested with sharing and then not come back to say either that they were indeed the exception, or to say they figured out the magic formula and want to share it too. There is a bias in who is here, though. Usually people first find the board because the FA relationship has already hit trouble. Noticing the 100% fail rate was so important for me in letting go of my FA LTR ex, though. It's sad to read, but very empowering, too. I can guarantee that if I had a r/ship with an FA that was working I would be all over the boards here letting you all know lol! In my opinion its nigh impossible until they are self aware and working on themselves. I have never read one success anywhere about someone working it out without that in place first.
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Post by Dualcitizen on Feb 9, 2020 2:52:49 GMT
Lol there's no way people would be that invested with sharing and then not come back to say either that they were indeed the exception, or to say they figured out the magic formula and want to share it too. There is a bias in who is here, though. Usually people first find the board because the FA relationship has already hit trouble. Noticing the 100% fail rate was so important for me in letting go of my FA LTR ex, though. It's sad to read, but very empowering, too. I can guarantee that if I had a r/ship with an FA that was working I would be all over the boards here letting you all know lol! Found this guy on medium, he seems quite confident in his ability to handle the situation after 16 months dating. Be warned it's attached to quite a scathing article, clearly Kris Gage had pent up anger still over her experience, quite accusatory really, which is unfortunate. Also it maybe the case the girl he is dating, "on the spectrum" may not be all that F-A in nature? medium.com/@richc/just-to-add-another-perspective-ive-been-dating-an-anxious-avoidant-fearful-avoidant-woman-off-7a65cbb0e427
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Post by alexandra on Feb 9, 2020 8:47:44 GMT
Dualcitizen " off and on for 16 months." I know of marriages with diagnosed FAs. Both top of mind failed after about 10 years together (one was an FA/DA pairing, with the FA working on issues with therapy and attachment theory and the DA doing nothing. The other was an FA/border of secure and anxious pairing, and the FA was working on issues with therapy and attachment theory, and they ended up with a lifestyle dealbreaker when they got older). So it can happen, but even self work doesn't guarantee a forever situation. The FAs are continuing their therapy and work after the divorces, FWIW. I don't really consider an off and on relationship successful navigation of attachment issues as much as tolerating a pattern and settling for less. At least until it stops being off.
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Post by Helsbells on Feb 9, 2020 11:22:55 GMT
It is hard when they just flick the switch god only knows why. I was lying in bed with my fa in the morning drinking tea and watching the news. He was telling me how happy he was. That very same evening after a few drinks he told me he doesn't still know what he wants, that's after two years. We were living together. The next day whilst I was at work he came home a cleared all his stuff and that's what I came home too. He later text me saying he was sorry it ended like this, I hope I find a better man than him and he was blocking me on everything as he felt it was the only and kindest way we could both move on. In under two weeks I was unblocked and have received gifts from him and messages saying how amazing I am and how sorry he is for hurting me. It's crazy stuff and very sad when you really love someone. How are you feeling today x I can't even imagine how devastating that was. My ex seems pretty much done with me for good. She's in a new long distance relationship. Today I'm not feeling too great. I miss her, what we had, what we were supposed to have. And now I have to hear and see she's in love with somebody else and she's apparently willing to put in the effort to make a long distance relationship work but with me she didn't try anything to make it work. I hate that he's getting the best of her, the girl I had. I just don't get why she didn't love me enough to even attempt to work through whatever it was that was bugging her, especially when she acted so happy and in love with me. I really thought I was special to her like she said, it seemed like she couldn't stay away from me. One minute it was texts at 1 in the morning saying "I love you so much babe", talks of vacations, a love poem, a "I've waited for this moment for so long", and then boom done. "I love you but I'm not in love with you", "We're different people", "I feel partly contained and I don't want to feel contained", "I can't do this anymore", "You always do what I want to do". I just don't get it. She's telling me she never falls in love but was in love with me, never feels like she can be herself with people but feels so comfortable with me, being around me makes her happy. How could any of that come out of somebody's mouth and her just discard me like it was nothing? Whoah! That's a trip! I just got ghosted by my ex fa like 6 months ago and I'm about to be 30 in a few days,and she turns 26 in March. I also dated her on and off the last two years but ended 6 months ago because she de activated and ghosted. Yall dont live in California do you? Maybe we both dated the same girl hahaha Nope NY haha of course it has nothing to do with the other person I would never try and imply that. And you are right I'm being a bit presumptuous it's just that's what happened to me in the past with multiple girls I had dated. Who said they suddenly didnt love me anymore or were confused about their feelings, etc. Later finding out that there was another person in the picture that was leading to them having their feelings drift. Though you are right for an fa or avoidant sometimes they just shut down and lose those feelings without that being a factor at all. I shouldn't have jumped to that. If the girl is an avoidant that was dating OP then that's probably what happened and is pretty much the norm at some point dating an fa or da. One who isnt self aware and doing work. To OP I hope you are doing okay and working through the loss. I know how sucky that feeling is. I spent a long time on these forums grieving and talking about my ex fa over this last year. Time will heal all this! I'm just not sure if my ex is avoidant or not I just don't know. I mean she did say she remembers the exact moment she started feeling uncertain, she was getting dressed in the morning and I kissed her cheek from behind, that seems pretty weird for a) An innocent kiss on the cheek to cause a reaction like that but more so b) that she can pin point this change of heart to an exact moment. Or maybe it's not that weird? I don't know, I've never experienced that. Just kills me I somehow wasn't the one that totally melted her heart, that she would move mountains for and do anything to make it work. I thought I was. I was so damn good to her. Maybe a little too good to her? Ugh my heart hurts thinking about how much I miss her and what we had and how badly I want her back. maxymax I truly know how much pain your in believe me. I couldn't function the first time he left me, I stopped caring for myself completely. It feels like you will never recover but like Amber said you do heal and recover at around 3mths so go easy on yourself. You have been blindsided like me and that kicks the shit out off us. We just cant understand how someone can have a change of heart so abruptly. I dont think I will ever be quite the same after dating my ex FA. I have experienced a relationship like I've never experienced before . My heart feels guarded now in someway. I never had to go searching on the internet before to find out what I was experiencing in a relationship, I had never even heard off attachment styles so the innocence of just meeting a person and falling in love has gone. I feel I will always be on my guard now as I never ever want to go thru a relationship like this again.
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Post by mrob on Feb 9, 2020 13:08:01 GMT
Innocence or naivete? Surely it's best to know, to be armed, than to be ignorant?
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Post by Helsbells on Feb 9, 2020 13:19:14 GMT
mrob you are probably right, especially at my age now. I just wish my husband was still alive as the thought of meeting anyone now is very scary. We had our ups and downs but we were always able to sit down and talk things through to help the relationship grow and deepen.
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Post by maxymax on Feb 9, 2020 15:44:43 GMT
There's so many red flags waving here. I put some of the avoidant red flags in italics for you, and bolded some of your own AP projections that you should really think about (instead of all the external-focused ruminating on her). Someone who says they never fall in love [but you're the exception] is someone who isn't actually open to being in a serious relationship. To buy into the narrative of how special that makes you, to win over someone shut down that you had to fight for and open up, is a form of longing and chasing "love" that feels validating and excites your nervous system. But it's not healthy or functional because it's loaded with projections on both sides. This is very common for someone with anxious preoccupied attachment, and usually ties back to an inconsistent adult caretaker in your childhood who showed conditional instead of unconditional love. Was that part of your experience? On the side of the person who said that, either they're telling you you're the exception to make you feel good in a manipulating way, or they're unaware avoidant and don't understand their inner emotional landscape. While they believe what they're saying is the truth, they'll revert back to their normal pattern in time and treat you like the others they "didn't love" until they do some serious work on healing themselves and become more secure. This is because their issues with love have to do with themselves and have little to nothing to do with their partners. The only difference in regards to partners is avoidant dynamics mix differently with different attachment styles. A DA will always eventually push away an AP, who will cling harder. A DA might push away a secure, who will either do their own thing but stay in the relationship, or simply get fed up and leave. A DA with another DA often mutually stays too distant to really attach. If an avoidant wants an illusion of intimacy with no real work, they may opt for a comfortable long-distance situation, as it has built in physical distance and you don't need to put in as much effort to create emotional distance. Someone anxious-leaning (AP or FA) will just about always feel triggered more anxious by a more avoidant partner, and will eventually push away a more anxious partner or even a more secure partner. The AP/FA isn't interested in actual availability (though it's not a conscious feeling). Again, with someone more avoidant, that longing is there, lighting up the nervous system, hoping to correct a childhood wound of an adult caretaker's love being out of reach. This is just as dysfunctional as avoidance, even if it creates all the wonderful words and behaviors that make someone feel like it's an epic love. It's projection and selfish, because it's about anxiety-relief and seeking validation. But it's not conscious or intentional. Insecure attachment styles evolve as a defense mechanism to help a child survive, but unfortunately people don't grow out of it as adults without awareness and lots of deliberate work. And insecure attachment styles inhibit healthy and functional long term relating in adults. Saying why didn't she fight for you is over simplifying this. And I assure you that no one else is getting the best of her. She'll repeat her pattern possibly endlessly, and your assumption otherwise is a negative narrative in your own head -- which is part of the AP pattern. Always putting yourself down relative to other people. She deactivated during a moment of quiet intimacy. You gave her a kiss on the cheek when she was getting dressed. $hit actually got real. Totally normal for avoidants. You didn't do anything. Love is not transactional, you weren't "too nice" to her. She isn't capable of sustaining the kind of relationship you want. The way out of this is to dig into your AP style and into why you wanted to buy into a fantasy type of love, where you were the white night. And to understand that from your first bold statement above, you are mourning potential and not reality. Which is perfectly okay, as long as you don't get yourself stuck forever -- which you can do in your own head with potential. I've done this. The most intense time I did it, I loved an FA LTR ex so much and was totally blind sided by him leaving me and blamed myself completely. How could I be so horrible to have someone driven away someone I loved so much and was so good to and so good with? Well, I didn't. It really was him, not me, and in rare moments of clarity he'll say that. In moments of avoidance, he told a different story and blamed me in ways that made no sense. I used the devastation to rebuild myself, eventually earning secure, so I'd stop chasing avoidants and blaming myself. I understand where you're at and it will take you some time to shift your perspective, but I promise it will be way more constructive for you to focus on yourself and not worry about her until you've solidly got your own back. Not sure if this changes anything but just wanted to specify... when she told me she never falls in love, that was actually in a conversation after we had broken up. I was asking her if this connection was really real and at first she was saying yea and then she said I don't know, I think I'm just a really easy person to get along with. I was really taken a back because she had even acknowledged this connection previously, so I asked her, so you just fall in love with everybody you have a thing with and she said no I like never fall in love. So it's not like we were dating and she said that and I took it on as a challenge. I really don't remember having an inconsistent parent. I recall both my parents being very loving as a child. They did get divorced when I was around 10 or 11 and it was not an amicable one which affected my life for a long time. I'm not sure if I'm anxious. I think I was pretty secure prior to my first break up with this particular girl. I may just be anxious with her because of the heartache I've endured throughout our time together, I'm not sure. But yes throughout this thing, I have severely put myself down compared to her and given her so much value. She's done so many things that are just wrong, and at the very very least inconsiderate, but still I feel my heart break and long for her. When I wrote "too nice to her" I didn't really mean in a transactional way. I meant in the way that when somebody shows too much interest/affection/effort/you get the feeling that they're just too into you and it turns you off. I have definitely been blaming myself. Thinking I had the most amazing girl, the perfect girl for me, and I lost her. The reasons she gave me, although make less than zero sense to me, and certainly were not prominent things in the relationship, I've taken as truths and to heart. In another conversation after the break up, she did take on SOME responsibility saying that she's always changing her mind, indecisive, new ideas are always popping into her head, that she doesn't know if she'll ever land. I'm trying to do things to work on myself and focus on myself for sure but I really really deeply miss her, it's hard and just soo confusing. One minute I'm the happiest I've ever been, so in love, so excited for the things to come that my ex would talk to me about and the next it's all over and all the soul crushing questioning that comes with that. I'd do anything for her to come back to me and make this thing work. Of course she's in a "new LDR" classic F-A, that is the most comfortable until the other person wants to move in, my ex. did that, the guy prior to me, put the guy on a pedestal as well, it suited her down to the ground, until after 15 months he wanted to move in, and she couldn't do it, he called it off, she was devastated. Just the same patterns, wouldn't concern yourself. Unless that person confronts their trauma head on, no point at all. It wont feel like it atm, but you have just been saved a world of hurt my friend. The fact she's moved on and with someone else, will allow you to move on now. If she didn't this could seriously continue for another 12-18 months or more pending on you staying around for the once a month catch up with potentially no sex, and a lot of promises to catch up in person, but last minute pull outs due to some unforeseen event. Look past the passionate bedroom activity, that was all part of the "false facade" so to speak, the real person is the low self esteem, not worthy, not good enough, constant doubt and turmoil. Inside the head there is a critical inner voice constantly chipping away (hurt super ego), that wont let the true "ego" be itself, and creates flashbacks via the "ID" (angry outbursts, dissociation, fear and running etc) How long was the relationship with you out of interest? This is the typical pattern of a fearful-avoidant, they whirlwind, put you on a pedestal, and then pull away and push-pull (intermittent reinforcement). It's to do with trauma and trauma response they align too. Many due to physical/verbal abuse are "Fawn" people pleaser types, with Flight/Freeze mixed in, because generally a Cluster B Narcissist "Fight" type has abused them with intermittent reinforcement in childhood. Just what i've noticed anyway. The fact she's moved on is killing me. I'm not a total idealist but I've been around the block enough to know that connections are rare, took me 28 years before finding this one, and she already feels something similar or even more than what we had with somebody new. Just crushing. And again, maybe she's not FA? Maybe somehow, someway, despite all of her actions and words, despite all the amazing moments, I just wasn't the right one for her? But in my mind, how could she possibly know or feel that without ever once trying to have a conversation or even hint at something being wrong for her. I mentioned it earlier, we had a pretty complicated situation. We were either hooking up, dating, having casual sex or even not speaking at all over the course of a year and a half. I was emotionally invested throughout the entire time. Our last stint of actual dating was 5 months.
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Post by dhali on Feb 9, 2020 15:49:54 GMT
They don’t hint at something being wrong because they don’t want to upset you. It’s a fear of conflict.
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Post by maxymax on Feb 9, 2020 15:55:44 GMT
I can't even imagine how devastating that was. My ex seems pretty much done with me for good. She's in a new long distance relationship. Today I'm not feeling too great. I miss her, what we had, what we were supposed to have. And now I have to hear and see she's in love with somebody else and she's apparently willing to put in the effort to make a long distance relationship work but with me she didn't try anything to make it work. I hate that he's getting the best of her, the girl I had. I just don't get why she didn't love me enough to even attempt to work through whatever it was that was bugging her, especially when she acted so happy and in love with me. I really thought I was special to her like she said, it seemed like she couldn't stay away from me. One minute it was texts at 1 in the morning saying "I love you so much babe", talks of vacations, a love poem, a "I've waited for this moment for so long", and then boom done. "I love you but I'm not in love with you", "We're different people", "I feel partly contained and I don't want to feel contained", "I can't do this anymore", "You always do what I want to do". I just don't get it. She's telling me she never falls in love but was in love with me, never feels like she can be herself with people but feels so comfortable with me, being around me makes her happy. How could any of that come out of somebody's mouth and her just discard me like it was nothing? Nope NY haha I'm just not sure if my ex is avoidant or not I just don't know. I mean she did say she remembers the exact moment she started feeling uncertain, she was getting dressed in the morning and I kissed her cheek from behind, that seems pretty weird for a) An innocent kiss on the cheek to cause a reaction like that but more so b) that she can pin point this change of heart to an exact moment. Or maybe it's not that weird? I don't know, I've never experienced that. Just kills me I somehow wasn't the one that totally melted her heart, that she would move mountains for and do anything to make it work. I thought I was. I was so damn good to her. Maybe a little too good to her? Ugh my heart hurts thinking about how much I miss her and what we had and how badly I want her back. maxymax I truly know how much pain your in believe me. I couldn't function the first time he left me, I stopped caring for myself completely. It feels like you will never recover but like Amber said you do heal and recover at around 3mths so go easy on yourself. You have been blindsided like me and that kicks the shit out off us. We just cant understand how someone can have a change of heart so abruptly. I dont think I will ever be quite the same after dating my ex FA. I have experienced a relationship like I've never experienced before . My heart feels guarded now in someway. I never had to go searching on the internet before to find out what I was experiencing in a relationship, I had never even heard off attachment styles so the innocence of just meeting a person and falling in love has gone. I feel I will always be on my guard now as I never ever want to go thru a relationship like this again. I couldn't agree more. I'm pretty sure I'm done with dating after this. It just doesn't seem worth it all when somebody can just wake up one day and in one tiny moment can completely change their minds and feelings about the relationship and just walk out on you. To never be able to truly know what somebody is thinking and feeling despite their actions and words. I can't see myself trusting anything somebody could say or do. I don't see myself being able to trust my own judgement of what's going on in a relationship after this either. I don't even have the desire to be with somebody again. After many years of dating around, having my fun, probably being a little emotionally closed off, I gave it a real shot. I found somebody I thought I had an inexplicable connection with, somebody I thought felt the same thing, somebody I thought we had the perfect balance of similarities and differences, somebody I thought was truly deeply in love with me, and they just discarded me and moved on from me like it was all nothing. My heart will never be the same. I'd rather be by myself and make myself happy and find happiness in the things I do for me in my life myself than risk this ever again. My heart feels completely broken and shut off. They don’t hint at something being wrong because they don’t want to upset you. It’s a fear of conflict. Like what the ****? You commit to a relationship with somebody, tell them you're so in love with them, want to do this and that, and you can't have 1 damn difficult conversation and risk the potential for some slight discomfort? Is it fear of conflict or is it somebody not invested enough to want to say something? I had told her in this post break up talk that the fact she never tried to even have one difficult conversation with me bothered me the most and she said that she can do difficult conversations but she just somehow knew in her heart and soul that it wasn't right. Not sure how somebody could say and do all these things that would indicate she felt in her heart and soul it was right (actually now that I think about it, when she first told me she loved me, I asked her how she knows, and she said I just do, I feel it in my whole body) and just all of a sudden with no notable changes, know in her heart and soul it now was NOT right. I've never been more confused by a girl in my entire life.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 9, 2020 18:07:35 GMT
I'm pretty sure I'm done with dating after this. It just doesn't seem worth it all when somebody can just wake up one day and in one tiny moment can completely change their minds and feelings about the relationship and just walk out on you. To never be able to truly know what somebody is thinking and feeling despite their actions and words. I can't see myself trusting anything somebody could say or do. I don't see myself being able to trust my own judgement of what's going on in a relationship after this either. I don't even have the desire to be with somebody again. After many years of dating around, having my fun, probably being a little emotionally closed off, I gave it a real shot. I found somebody I thought I had an inexplicable connection with, somebody I thought felt the same thing, somebody I thought we had the perfect balance of similarities and differences, somebody I thought was truly deeply in love with me, and they just discarded me and moved on from me like it was all nothing. My heart will never be the same. I'd rather be by myself and make myself happy and find happiness in the things I do for me in my life myself than risk this ever again. My heart feels completely broken and shut off. So... I'd like to point out that most of your response to me was going on the defensive and trying to explain away her and yourself, with still most focus on her. That's okay, you're upset and mourning and not ready to shift your perspective. Your parents' divorce and the likely poor relating to each other and animosity for some time leading up to it definitely had a big impact on you and likely is contributing to this situation, even if it doesn't seem like it. Other people on this board have come here and posted the exact same type of situation and also said but I'm secure, uh, except my parents went through a bad divorce when I was a 'tween that had an impact on me. But I'm secure?! ... that's an extremely, extremely formative age. Whether you're normally secure or not, you're anxious now, saying all AP things, and if you catastrophize the situation indefinitely instead of being resilient, rebuilding your self-esteem when you're ready after the mourning period, and moving on, if you are not already AP and give in to these negative thought processes, you can actually shift into being AP for good (or act FA if you can't trust yourself or anyone else ever again!) and then have to confront and heal that to go back to secure. So keep that in mind before deciding you're going to spiral out forever with things like the above that you said. I'm inclined to say there's background insecurity issues you weren't addressing before you met her though, if you were already a little closed off and dating for fun and then allowed one poor choice in partner to make you not want to heal but instead be forever alone and distrustful of yourself also. I hope when you're feeling less pain from the immediate separation over time that you're able to honestly look into yourself and heal into some more security and move forward. "When I wrote "too nice to her" I didn't really mean in a transactional way. I meant in the way that when somebody shows too much interest/affection/effort/you get the feeling that they're just too into you and it turns you off. I knew exactly what you meant. This line of thinking is a fallacy and is true for insecure attachers, not healthy people you're already in a serious relationship with. Also, read these two threads also from this week, where two AP say exactly what you do about but maybe my partner isn't avoidant and I'm the one to blame. Typical AP pattern, so you're not alone, but generally not true: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2483/budgedPage 6 of this one: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2383/help-sorry-long-detailed
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Post by dhali on Feb 9, 2020 18:31:59 GMT
Maxy- I get that you’re angry, and you have every right to feel angry. Unfortunately, none of that changes your situation. Alexandria’s post basically sums it up. You’re certainly triggered anxious right now, and attaching yourself to a narrative. The reality is you can’t really know what went down. Based in what you wrote, there were attachment issues. Maybe it’s one way, maybe it’s both. It’s irrelevant as far as that relationship is concerned. It’s over. There was nothing you could have consciously done differently. Same goes for her. It sucks. But really it’s better than the alternative. Having stayed together. It would have gotten ugly, and stayed ugly. While you can’t see it, it was unhealthy.
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Post by Dualcitizen on Feb 9, 2020 18:52:16 GMT
Of course she's in a "new LDR" classic F-A, that is the most comfortable until the other person wants to move in, my ex. did that, the guy prior to me, put the guy on a pedestal as well, it suited her down to the ground, until after 15 months he wanted to move in, and she couldn't do it, he called it off, she was devastated. Just the same patterns, wouldn't concern yourself. Unless that person confronts their trauma head on, no point at all. It wont feel like it atm, but you have just been saved a world of hurt my friend. The fact she's moved on and with someone else, will allow you to move on now. If she didn't this could seriously continue for another 12-18 months or more pending on you staying around for the once a month catch up with potentially no sex, and a lot of promises to catch up in person, but last minute pull outs due to some unforeseen event. Look past the passionate bedroom activity, that was all part of the "false facade" so to speak, the real person is the low self esteem, not worthy, not good enough, constant doubt and turmoil. Inside the head there is a critical inner voice constantly chipping away (hurt super ego), that wont let the true "ego" be itself, and creates flashbacks via the "ID" (angry outbursts, dissociation, fear and running etc) How long was the relationship with you out of interest? This is the typical pattern of a fearful-avoidant, they whirlwind, put you on a pedestal, and then pull away and push-pull (intermittent reinforcement). It's to do with trauma and trauma response they align too. Many due to physical/verbal abuse are "Fawn" people pleaser types, with Flight/Freeze mixed in, because generally a Cluster B Narcissist "Fight" type has abused them with intermittent reinforcement in childhood. Just what i've noticed anyway. The fact she's moved on is killing me. I'm not a total idealist but I've been around the block enough to know that connections are rare, took me 28 years before finding this one, and she already feels something similar or even more than what we had with somebody new. Just crushing. And again, maybe she's not FA? Maybe somehow, someway, despite all of her actions and words, despite all the amazing moments, I just wasn't the right one for her? But in my mind, how could she possibly know or feel that without ever once trying to have a conversation or even hint at something being wrong for her. I mentioned it earlier, we had a pretty complicated situation. We were either hooking up, dating, having casual sex or even not speaking at all over the course of a year and a half. I was emotionally invested throughout the entire time. Our last stint of actual dating was 5 months. Look I know it's fresh and hurting, particularly if she was highly passionate like mine, killed me at the time as well. I had a complication in mine, she was suffering from "health issues" (psychosomatic in nature), which threw me off the scent a bit. I still had set boundaries. Sounds like she is a poor communicator until after the fact, and still mind blowing reasons how a 9/10 to 10/10 attraction drops below 5/10 and a breakup instantly. It's not normal behaviour I am telling you, and so don't beat yourself up. Noone who is healthy does that. Mine whirlwinded me, and she's whirlwinding a dude now, it's seemingly how a fair few F-A's roll when not awake. So don't take it to heart. If the chick was remotely healthy, she wouldn't come on with that attraction be telling you all that stuff and then suddenly lose interest if you'd been together for a reasonable amount of time, as you were, and if there were issues, she should/would have told you what was bothering her and worked on them together. You seemingly have no idea why things broke down, so that to me says "poor communication" and expression of ACTUAL needs, desires, emotions, feelings, you were in what is known classically as a codependent fantasy bond (a whole bunch of limerence and fantasy about who the person is, and covers up low self esteem for both of you potentially i.e. placing happiness on the other partner, instead of loving yourself and complimenting each other, seemingly with "communication" but actually no true communication), where partners think they are happy and just carry on with unhealthy patterns, just a lot of assumptions and bottling up. If it was a healthy relationship with a few minor mistakes here and there from both, because nothing is perfect, you work through things and you communicate effectively together, which maybe both of you never, but she certainly didn't. This is the problem, these relationships can last a reasonable time and it hurts bad. She will do exactly the same again, don't worry. Totally unaware, probably never will be.....sadly
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Post by amber on Feb 9, 2020 20:33:09 GMT
There's so many red flags waving here. I put some of the avoidant red flags in italics for you, and bolded some of your own AP projections that you should really think about (instead of all the external-focused ruminating on her). Someone who says they never fall in love [but you're the exception] is someone who isn't actually open to being in a serious relationship. To buy into the narrative of how special that makes you, to win over someone shut down that you had to fight for and open up, is a form of longing and chasing "love" that feels validating and excites your nervous system. But it's not healthy or functional because it's loaded with projections on both sides. This is very common for someone with anxious preoccupied attachment, and usually ties back to an inconsistent adult caretaker in your childhood who showed conditional instead of unconditional love. Was that part of your experience? On the side of the person who said that, either they're telling you you're the exception to make you feel good in a manipulating way, or they're unaware avoidant and don't understand their inner emotional landscape. While they believe what they're saying is the truth, they'll revert back to their normal pattern in time and treat you like the others they "didn't love" until they do some serious work on healing themselves and become more secure. This is because their issues with love have to do with themselves and have little to nothing to do with their partners. The only difference in regards to partners is avoidant dynamics mix differently with different attachment styles. A DA will always eventually push away an AP, who will cling harder. A DA might push away a secure, who will either do their own thing but stay in the relationship, or simply get fed up and leave. A DA with another DA often mutually stays too distant to really attach. If an avoidant wants an illusion of intimacy with no real work, they may opt for a comfortable long-distance situation, as it has built in physical distance and you don't need to put in as much effort to create emotional distance. Someone anxious-leaning (AP or FA) will just about always feel triggered more anxious by a more avoidant partner, and will eventually push away a more anxious partner or even a more secure partner. The AP/FA isn't interested in actual availability (though it's not a conscious feeling). Again, with someone more avoidant, that longing is there, lighting up the nervous system, hoping to correct a childhood wound of an adult caretaker's love being out of reach. This is just as dysfunctional as avoidance, even if it creates all the wonderful words and behaviors that make someone feel like it's an epic love. It's projection and selfish, because it's about anxiety-relief and seeking validation. But it's not conscious or intentional. Insecure attachment styles evolve as a defense mechanism to help a child survive, but unfortunately people don't grow out of it as adults without awareness and lots of deliberate work. And insecure attachment styles inhibit healthy and functional long term relating in adults. Saying why didn't she fight for you is over simplifying this. And I assure you that no one else is getting the best of her. She'll repeat her pattern possibly endlessly, and your assumption otherwise is a negative narrative in your own head -- which is part of the AP pattern. Always putting yourself down relative to other people. She deactivated during a moment of quiet intimacy. You gave her a kiss on the cheek when she was getting dressed. $hit actually got real. Totally normal for avoidants. You didn't do anything. Love is not transactional, you weren't "too nice" to her. She isn't capable of sustaining the kind of relationship you want. The way out of this is to dig into your AP style and into why you wanted to buy into a fantasy type of love, where you were the white night. And to understand that from your first bold statement above, you are mourning potential and not reality. Which is perfectly okay, as long as you don't get yourself stuck forever -- which you can do in your own head with potential. I've done this. The most intense time I did it, I loved an FA LTR ex so much and was totally blind sided by him leaving me and blamed myself completely. How could I be so horrible to have someone driven away someone I loved so much and was so good to and so good with? Well, I didn't. It really was him, not me, and in rare moments of clarity he'll say that. In moments of avoidance, he told a different story and blamed me in ways that made no sense. I used the devastation to rebuild myself, eventually earning secure, so I'd stop chasing avoidants and blaming myself. I understand where you're at and it will take you some time to shift your perspective, but I promise it will be way more constructive for you to focus on yourself and not worry about her until you've solidly got your own back. Not sure if this changes anything but just wanted to specify... when she told me she never falls in love, that was actually in a conversation after we had broken up. I was asking her if this connection was really real and at first she was saying yea and then she said I don't know, I think I'm just a really easy person to get along with. I was really taken a back because she had even acknowledged this connection previously, so I asked her, so you just fall in love with everybody you have a thing with and she said no I like never fall in love. So it's not like we were dating and she said that and I took it on as a challenge. I really don't remember having an inconsistent parent. I recall both my parents being very loving as a child. They did get divorced when I was around 10 or 11 and it was not an amicable one which affected my life for a long time. I'm not sure if I'm anxious. I think I was pretty secure prior to my first break up with this particular girl. I may just be anxious with her because of the heartache I've endured throughout our time together, I'm not sure. But yes throughout this thing, I have severely put myself down compared to her and given her so much value. She's done so many things that are just wrong, and at the very very least inconsiderate, but still I feel my heart break and long for her. When I wrote "too nice to her" I didn't really mean in a transactional way. I meant in the way that when somebody shows too much interest/affection/effort/you get the feeling that they're just too into you and it turns you off. I have definitely been blaming myself. Thinking I had the most amazing girl, the perfect girl for me, and I lost her. The reasons she gave me, although make less than zero sense to me, and certainly were not prominent things in the relationship, I've taken as truths and to heart. In another conversation after the break up, she did take on SOME responsibility saying that she's always changing her mind, indecisive, new ideas are always popping into her head, that she doesn't know if she'll ever land. I'm trying to do things to work on myself and focus on myself for sure but I really really deeply miss her, it's hard and just soo confusing. One minute I'm the happiest I've ever been, so in love, so excited for the things to come that my ex would talk to me about and the next it's all over and all the soul crushing questioning that comes with that. I'd do anything for her to come back to me and make this thing work. Of course she's in a "new LDR" classic F-A, that is the most comfortable until the other person wants to move in, my ex. did that, the guy prior to me, put the guy on a pedestal as well, it suited her down to the ground, until after 15 months he wanted to move in, and she couldn't do it, he called it off, she was devastated. Just the same patterns, wouldn't concern yourself. Unless that person confronts their trauma head on, no point at all. It wont feel like it atm, but you have just been saved a world of hurt my friend. The fact she's moved on and with someone else, will allow you to move on now. If she didn't this could seriously continue for another 12-18 months or more pending on you staying around for the once a month catch up with potentially no sex, and a lot of promises to catch up in person, but last minute pull outs due to some unforeseen event. Look past the passionate bedroom activity, that was all part of the "false facade" so to speak, the real person is the low self esteem, not worthy, not good enough, constant doubt and turmoil. Inside the head there is a critical inner voice constantly chipping away (hurt super ego), that wont let the true "ego" be itself, and creates flashbacks via the "ID" (angry outbursts, dissociation, fear and running etc) How long was the relationship with you out of interest? This is the typical pattern of a fearful-avoidant, they whirlwind, put you on a pedestal, and then pull away and push-pull (intermittent reinforcement). It's to do with trauma and trauma response they align too. Many due to physical/verbal abuse are "Fawn" people pleaser types, with Flight/Freeze mixed in, because generally a Cluster B Narcissist "Fight" type has abused them with intermittent reinforcement in childhood. Just what i've noticed anyway. The fact she's moved on is killing me. I'm not a total idealist but I've been around the block enough to know that connections are rare, took me 28 years before finding this one, and she already feels something similar or even more than what we had with somebody new. Just crushing. And again, maybe she's not FA? Maybe somehow, someway, despite all of her actions and words, despite all the amazing moments, I just wasn't the right one for her? But in my mind, how could she possibly know or feel that without ever once trying to have a conversation or even hint at something being wrong for her. I mentioned it earlier, we had a pretty complicated situation. We were either hooking up, dating, having casual sex or even not speaking at all over the course of a year and a half. I was emotionally invested throughout the entire time. Our last stint of actual dating was 5 months. I was in a very similar situation with my ex FA, your story could almost be mine. From what I understand after talking to my ex post breakup, reading about attachment styles and learning from the people on this board here, conflict avoidance generally stems from having a parent who consistently punished you/didn’t listen to you/invalidated you/criticised you when you expressed needs/thoughts/opinions/feelings.my ex FA told me once he didn’t even KNOW what his needs were, let alone express them to me. You have to understand it’s not a conscious process; they are not intentionally holding out telling you the truth, to them, there is so much fear, terror and shame around this that they become paralysed. There is also the people pleasing/going along with what others want element, as this is what they have done their whole lives (to survive a very hard childhood)...so those patterns don’t just automatically change in adulthood,unless the person starts to become aware of themselves. I get the frustration with this as I was furious with my ex for omitting the truth, but over time I’ve come to feel a lot of compassion for him, as I realise it’s not really about ME, he has done this in all r/ships and will likely continue unless change is made. You are likely in the anger state of grief, which is important to go through, and you will likely oscillate between all the grief stages for some time. Grief is not linear, but it will get better, and the process will hasten if you let yourself cry and feel your feelings without getting too stuck in your head. As for the trust issues you mentioned, this r/ship is likely showing up pre-existing trust issues you had from childhood. There is almost always an echo back to the past when we get hurt in r/ship. And perhaps in time you may see this as a gift, that this woman showed you where your own hurts are, so you can work towards healing them. Regardless of how loving your parents were, a divorce is very traumatic for a child of any age, especially when you are entering adolescence at such a vulnerable time. For me, my parents split when I was three, and I see within myself the beliefs I formed such as “I can’t trust my parents to be there for me, my parents aren’t reliable, the world is not a trustworthy place”. When you said “you had the perfect girl, and then you lost her” this may be stirring up the feelings from when your parents split ie “I had a great family, then I lost it”...there will be some transference from the past going on here. I went through the “I will never trust anyone again” but; but I think I’ve moved out of that now. You attracted her for a reason, she must have had some similar qualities to your caregiver, and we have to take some responsibility for our own part in these dynamics.if we feel totally victimised by our circumstances it’s much harder to create inner change and move on.
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