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Post by alexandra on Feb 13, 2020 6:43:29 GMT
I've had people say that a securely attached person would view her very affectionate behavior and words as a red flag but why? People get infatuated and enamored and excited about what's going on, I'd imagine even secure people feel those things no? I mean I feel maybe I have AP tendencies and I'm not sure this applies but I have secure relationships with something like 20 friends for 20+ years. Have you taken an attachment assessment? You can have a primary insecure style, but be securely attached to friends and other people who don't aggravate it / trigger your attachment system. But you'll still default to an insecure pattern under stress, or possibly around family or romantic intimacy (depending on what triggers you). I was textbook AP forever, yet I was still securely attached to my parents and friends and have some friends for longer than 20 years. However, just because I was securely attached to them didn't mean either I was secure or even that they were secure. At least one of my parents is AP, some of my closest friends are DA (one who has also earned secure at this point, woo hoo!), and most of the duration of my relationships with those people I was AP in primary general attachment style. Didn't mean I couldn't have secure relationships with anyone at all... basically just couldn't have easy relationships romantically until I earned secure. dianepooleheller.com/attachment-test/(Secure overall style is generally 60-65%+) Having personally transitioned from AP to secure thought patterns and being able to intimately describe the difference, I can answer your first question. It has to do with projection. While secure people can really like and get excited about someone, it takes some time to actually get to know someone. If they are looking for a serious relationship, a secure person is likely to invest at an appropriate level against how well they truly know someone, hold solid boundaries (they're looking to share and enhance their lives, but not to lose their identity in someone else), and create a solid bond over time that's about connection and not about getting swept up in a fantasy of potential. They don't start from a distrustful place, and assume they can trust unless the potential partner proves them wrong, but they still want to see that their trust is being properly earned and the person is reliable and consistent and has good communication before they give themselves away and attach. They're also aware of the difference between limerence / lust and actual commitment / love, and that the nature of feelings does change over time as connection deepens, and that doesn't scare them or feel empty to them, so there's not so much reason to rush. The problem with quickly getting love bombed with words and affection and possibly even grand gestures is the connection isn't real yet, no matter how it feels. The person doesn't know you yet, and everything they're doing is a projection. This will happen if the person is emotionally unstable and has a weak sense of self and identity, and can manifest due to a couple types of motivations (such as insecure attachment or even narcissism). It's primarily about what they need, how they wished they felt, their fantasy, distraction from themselves and their inner pain, and control (if you are hooked on them, you won't leave them, so they want this in order to maintain control). It's not about true connection, which is why it's not sustainable. If everything doesn't feel perfect, they have to feel their own problems and emptiness that they don't understand and don't know how to fix. Idolizing you allows them to feel like all their problems are solved as long as they can just keep feeling that way... which they can't, since their problems weren't caused by and can't be solved by you. So in those situations, all that excessive feeling is about them, not you, and isn't sustainable. It was just given, not earned. And I don't mean earning love / chasing conditional love, I mean getting to know who a person is over time and seeing if that person is consistent and stable -- earning mutual trust, and really seeing that person for who they are, not for how they make you feel. Someone who is ready to jump into a fantasy ... maybe think about it as you said, wants to always be on vacation and not have real responsibilities and a deeper sense of who they are. They just want to be their vacation-identity and ignore true deep commitments and all the rest. With less to lose, because anyone can enjoy a sexy honeymoon period, they go all in to the fantasy. Are you more likely to be open and fun if you've got a short window to do something on vacation, thinking less about your longer-term normal life in that moment of enjoyment? It's fun, but the only way it's sustainable is if the person is already whole and not looking to you to fill a void. In that case, they can be teaming up with you to share new adventures, but they're not looking to idealize the relationship in order to escape boredom and negative feelings inside. No one with good boundaries or who isn't trying to be controlling will put all that responsibility on you, so their average levels of affection, words of affirmation, nice actions, etc. will be more balanced and consistent and not high highs and on and off drama that reflects their unsettled mindset. |
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Feb 13, 2020 15:10:30 GMT
Very interesting, alexandra. Just one question, where have you found this info: |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 13, 2020 17:50:32 GMT
Very interesting, alexandra. Just one question, where have you found this info: Less scientific, more anecdotal but still based on data: just what I've put together based on several people sharing their scores, both on this board and IRL. FA style also comes out as quarters instead of majority % in FA -- for FA, all the types come out around 25% +/- a few points. FWIW, since earning secure, I'll test around 65% secure if I'm not feeling so great about something (depressed or frustrated or PMSy) and 75% if I'm feeling put together. I check in and re-test every few months out of curiosity. My majority other remains in AP (between 10-20%) but the AP/FA/DA distribution split still fluctuates. Sometimes the remaining FA is higher than DA, sometimes the opposite. |
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Post by amber on Feb 13, 2020 20:11:30 GMT
It’s about 50 % I think from studies? Which I personally find perplexing as I really hardly know anyone who is secure,both friends and family. Even work colleagues, when o hear their r/ship histories. I guess it may be that I associate more with insecure people but you think I would come across secure people in everyday life?!
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Post by alexandra on Feb 13, 2020 21:21:23 GMT
It’s about 50 % I think from studies? Which I personally find perplexing as I really hardly know anyone who is secure,both friends and family. Even work colleagues, when o hear their r/ship histories. I guess it may be that I associate more with insecure people but you think I would come across secure people in everyday life?! I'm not saying % of population. Yes, research says 50% of humans have a secure attachment style. I just mean if you're trying to figure out your overall style result from the Poole Heller test, dominant style secure is if you score about a 60% secure or higher. |
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Post by amber on Feb 13, 2020 22:39:47 GMT
ohhhhhh I see!
I thought u were referring to population stats
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Post by maxymax on Feb 14, 2020 21:10:34 GMT
I've had people say that a securely attached person would view her very affectionate behavior and words as a red flag but why? People get infatuated and enamored and excited about what's going on, I'd imagine even secure people feel those things no? I mean I feel maybe I have AP tendencies and I'm not sure this applies but I have secure relationships with something like 20 friends for 20+ years. Have you taken an attachment assessment? You can have a primary insecure style, but be securely attached to friends and other people who don't aggravate it / trigger your attachment system. But you'll still default to an insecure pattern under stress, or possibly around family or romantic intimacy (depending on what triggers you). I was textbook AP forever, yet I was still securely attached to my parents and friends and have some friends for longer than 20 years. However, just because I was securely attached to them didn't mean either I was secure or even that they were secure. At least one of my parents is AP, some of my closest friends are DA (one who has also earned secure at this point, woo hoo!), and most of the duration of my relationships with those people I was AP in primary general attachment style. Didn't mean I couldn't have secure relationships with anyone at all... basically just couldn't have easy relationships romantically until I earned secure. dianepooleheller.com/attachment-test/(Secure overall style is generally 60-65%+) I got 54% Having personally transitioned from AP to secure thought patterns and being able to intimately describe the difference, I can answer your first question. It has to do with projection. While secure people can really like and get excited about someone, it takes some time to actually get to know someone. If they are looking for a serious relationship, a secure person is likely to invest at an appropriate level against how well they truly know someone, hold solid boundaries (they're looking to share and enhance their lives, but not to lose their identity in someone else), and create a solid bond over time that's about connection and not about getting swept up in a fantasy of potential. They don't start from a distrustful place, and assume they can trust unless the potential partner proves them wrong, but they still want to see that their trust is being properly earned and the person is reliable and consistent and has good communication before they give themselves away and attach. They're also aware of the difference between limerence / lust and actual commitment / love, and that the nature of feelings does change over time as connection deepens, and that doesn't scare them or feel empty to them, so there's not so much reason to rush. The problem with quickly getting love bombed with words and affection and possibly even grand gestures is the connection isn't real yet, no matter how it feels. The person doesn't know you yet, and everything they're doing is a projection. This will happen if the person is emotionally unstable and has a weak sense of self and identity, and can manifest due to a couple types of motivations (such as insecure attachment or even narcissism). It's primarily about what they need, how they wished they felt, their fantasy, distraction from themselves and their inner pain, and control (if you are hooked on them, you won't leave them, so they want this in order to maintain control). It's not about true connection, which is why it's not sustainable. If everything doesn't feel perfect, they have to feel their own problems and emptiness that they don't understand and don't know how to fix. Idolizing you allows them to feel like all their problems are solved as long as they can just keep feeling that way... which they can't, since their problems weren't caused by and can't be solved by you My situation is a little confusing with the whole not knowing somebody thing. My ex was sort of brought into my social circle, we hung out in group settings a handful of times, slept together a couple of times before we started dating. The first time we really started dating, things definitely moved quickly but she wasn't professing her love for me. But I was getting texts saying I can't stop thinking about you, I can't get you out of my head, thought about you all night, wish you were here, her telling me how amazing I am and how happy she is with me. And we did immediately start spending 2-3 times a week together and texting every day. Then when she ended things saying she wasn't read for a serious relationship, we saw each other in group settings a few times, slept together a few times, then started dating again. This time she pretty quickly did say she loves me and never stopped thinking about me etc. Which at the time, and even a little now, didn't seem that crazy because we did know each other, we had a history, so it's not like we had just met, just started dating and within a few weeks she's telling me she loves me. I don't know if it was love bombing or just being really excited about us. It's not like she was saying I want to marry you, trying to spending every waking moment with me, telling me we're soulmates. It was more she expressed and displayed very high interest I think. I guess the problem was I ate it up? I definitely could have been more discerning the second time around considering our past but I really wanted to be with her because I really felt a strong connection to her, was really happy and into her the first time around so I really wanted this relationship to work. For the first two months, I wouldn't commit to her (although she committed to me), I tried to play it cool, but in my heart I really wanted it to happen and to work and thought with the way everything has played out, the things she said, the things she was doing pointed to her feeling very similar things, so I just kind of dove in after a couple of months. So in those situations, all that excessive feeling is about them, not you, and isn't sustainable. It was just given, not earned. And I don't mean earning love / chasing conditional love, I mean getting to know who a person is over time and seeing if that person is consistent and stable -- earning mutual trust, and really seeing that person for who they are, not for how they make you feel. Someone who is ready to jump into a fantasy ... maybe think about it as you said, wants to always be on vacation and not have real responsibilities and a deeper sense of who they are. They just want to be their vacation-identity and ignore true deep commitments and all the rest. With less to lose, because anyone can enjoy a sexy honeymoon period, they go all in to the fantasy. Are you more likely to be open and fun if you've got a short window to do something on vacation, thinking less about your longer-term normal life in that moment of enjoyment? It's fun, but the only way it's sustainable is if the person is already whole and not looking to you to fill a void. In that case, they can be teaming up with you to share new adventures, but they're not looking to idealize the relationship in order to escape boredom and negative feelings inside. No one with good boundaries or who isn't trying to be controlling will put all that responsibility on you, so their average levels of affection, words of affirmation, nice actions, etc. will be more balanced and consistent and not high highs and on and off drama that reflects their unsettled mindset. I have no idea if this girl is pretty much normal and despite her words and actions of love and commitment she just suddenly realized her feelings weren't there, she didn't love me enough anymore, whatever it may have been that she felt she had to break up with me. Or if this girl really does have issues and there is absolutely nothing I could have done and no matter what she did or I did or anything that could have happened between us, the relationship would have ended. Seeing that this girl was my first relationship, I've never experienced such sudden changes with a significant other before, but more telling for me is I've never heard of it happening to any of my friends either. I went into it thinking she was just another nice, sweet, normal girl. I just thought we had a rare connection and such a great time together and that's what explained things moving rather quickly and all the expressions/actions of affection/love. Not that I was looking for a relationship when I met her but I was thinking about this today. Prior to her, I never looked at girls I was talking to or hooking up with from the lens of "hmm is this girl relationship material? is the way she's acting/the things she's doing/the things she's saying, indicative of a good girlfriend?". I just didn't think anything of the women in my life. For me, it was fun, it was sex, it was entertaining, etc. I wasn't evaluating. Especially when I think about girls that had boyfriends or were seeing somebody or girls that I knew slept around, I wasn't thinking "wow this girl is messed up, this girl is not relationship material". I didn't think at all, but if I had to guess what my subconscious was registering it was probably something along the lines of "heh I just got laid. she's hot. that was cool." But maybe if I had thought a bit more about the situation with this girl, I would have avoided her from the get go. We slept together casually multiple times, which hey I'm all for sleep with who you want, but I have 3 sisters and some friends that are girls, when the girls that I know are looking for a relationship, they don't just give it up so easily. Then when she was "hooking up" with this kid I knew for about 3-4 weeks, she slept with me. Sure they weren't official, but I know they were hanging out once or twice a week, probably talking pretty often, and she slept with me. Maybe another indicator for not relationship material? Then she started "dating" some guy from out of town for about a month or month and a half. We saw each other, hooked up but didn't sleep together and even made plans for our first date. She wound up cancelling those plans because she wanted to end things with the other guy first and he was coming for an already planned visit, but still, she's seeing somebody for a month or so and hooks up with me and makes plans with me behind this guys back. Probably should have been another red flag to me right? Instead of seeing those things as red flags though, I thought she was a nice normal sweet girl. I knew she had one or two serious boyfriends in high school. And I knew she had just ended things with her boyfriend of 3-3.5 years about 8 months earlier. So my thoughts were, she's the type of girl that prefers a relationship, knows how to be in one and maintain one and what it all entails. All the stuff I just wrote in the paragraph above was all due to this amazing connection and I was basically the chosen one that she just couldn't stay away from, wanted to be with more than anybody, that she was just so damn into me nobody could compare and she had to be with me. One thing that is bothering me SOOOO much right now, and I know this may come off as immature or petty, but understand it's really more a matter of what this means in our times and generation... We dated twice, had a handful of times together in between relationships, every time we did something I planned out such fun cool unique dates and she always said how I spoiled her and she has the best time with me, texting me in the middle of the night how much she loves me, writing me a love poem, all of that, and I'm pretty sure she never posted anything of me or us on social media. Now she's dating this new fucking kid for a couple of months, he's living with her the last month, and she's posted a whole bunch of stuff of him and them together, and the real kick in the nuts was obviously seeing what she posted today (I know I shouldn't have checked but I just had to know, I must enjoy the pain or something). It's like what is she so much more in love and crazy about this guy than she ever were me? Why didn't she want the world to know about me but she's posting things of her and this new guy all over the place? Did I mean so little to her? How could he possibly mean that much more? It looks like this kid is getting the absolute best of her. That she's so wildly in love with him that she's doing whatever she can to make this ridiculous long distance relationship work, that she would never do anything to hurt him. Or maybe that's just a stupid narrative I've created? Maybe she really does have issues. I mean a lot of people have said that, and not just family or friends that will say things like that to make you feel better, a lot of people on different forums have said she's got some mental/emotional problems. And I try to tell myself that too many people have pointed to that for it not to be true. And if that is true, she hasn't done any work on herself because she doesn't even know she has problems and therefore the same pattern will play out and this kid is no different. I mean jeez it was just back in August she was dating somebody else, while sleeping with this boat servant guy for a week behind the other dudes back, took the other dude on a family vacation when she got home, then blindside dumped him stating 2 of the same exact things she said to me as reasons for ending it with him. Then a month later starts this relationship. That wasn't that long ago at all that she was being shady with guys and blindside dumping somebody partly because "he always did what she wanted to do". That was 6 months ago. She hasn't changed at all. I'm trying to remain focused on myself as much as possible though. And I am excited about the stuff that I'm doing these days. But yea I think about her, I wake up and always think about how I used to wake up with her wrapped around me, I think about what happened, I think about what's happening now |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 14, 2020 21:49:19 GMT
maxymax, if your security was only 54%, what was the rest? Biggest slice in AP? I know a few percentage points doesn't seem like a lot, but it makes a huge difference. Between the time I was still testing AP (but getting closer and closer to secure) and actually fully moving into secure, my thoughts were completely, completely different once I suddenly made the switch. Night and day different, and suddenly all the secure vs. insecure made sense and I couldn't believe how distorted and dysfunctional insecure thinking my entire life actually was.
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Post by maxymax on Feb 14, 2020 22:17:51 GMT
maxymax , if your security was only 54%, what was the rest? Biggest slice in AP? I know a few percentage points doesn't seem like a lot, but it makes a huge difference. Between the time I was still testing AP (but getting closer and closer to secure) and actually fully moving into secure, my thoughts were completely, completely different once I suddenly made the switch. Night and day different, and suddenly all the secure vs. insecure made sense and I couldn't believe how distorted and dysfunctional insecure thinking my entire life actually was. I don't remember  - Just took it again and got 52% secure, 20.6% anxious, 17.6% avoidant, 8.9% disorganized Could you talk a bit about this night and day difference? Very interested in hearing, if you don't mind sharing here of course. What do you think of the things I wrote in my above post? In terms of relationships/my ex and in terms of my thoughts/feelings/perspective being secure/insecure? And so funny, well not funny, but I think I mentioned this in a prior post... I looked at her instagram story to see if she would post some valentines day stuff with him. Don't know why I'd want to see that, but I had to know. The first picture is a picture of him kissing or sucking on her breast (his head is covering it so you can't see anything but it's very obvious what's happening) while she's cracking up on a beach from a few yards away. After some depressing/angry/hurt thoughts, I thought, "Who the hell posts a picture like that??". And the answer is she does. Somebody that's not normal. Listen I'm all for a free spirit, I absolutely loved that about her, and if you want to be topless on a beach with your boyfriend, good for you, but posting a picture like that is something I would think 99% of people would be like wtf is wrong with this girl? In between our relationships, when I would hear stuff about what she was doing, and I'd talk to my friend about it, I always found myself saying, what is wrong with this girl? "She was on a family vacation for 4 days, she just had to have sex with somebody?", "She just had to bring that kid she's barely been dating to her family's vacation home??", "What the hell is she doing bringing her fuck buddy around her family?", "They were on vacation for 10 days, she just HAD to get fucked?". I need to somehow get it to really sink in that something is up with this girl. Like posting thirst trap pictures, posting topless pictures, posting pictures of her boy toy sucking her tit, having a bunch of casual sex with her family around, THIS IS WHO SHE IS. These are not the antics of a young immature girl that's exploring the world (at least I don't think, you can tell me I'm wrong). These are things that are just not normal. I look at my friends girlfriends, fiances, wives, not a single one of them would ever even dream of posting a picture like she has or act in the way she does. She is not normal. She has issues. These things are literally proof of that. For some reason my emotions do not buy it though. Or maybe I'm really judgmental and totally wrong about what all this indicates? Again, tell me |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 14, 2020 23:06:29 GMT
maxymax, your post was basically focused on her, and I am trying to turn the focus back to you  I can't add anything you haven't already heard anyway, either from me or others. She has issues that make her a terrible partner, and I personally couldn't tolerate all her weak boundaries around hooking up with several people when she's already somewhat involved with someone. I just assume she cheats, and would cheat on me. People have every right to be physical if they want to with however many people they want, but when it isn't transparent and okay with both parties, if someone thinks there's commitment and she's doing it behind someone's back, I have zero tolerance for personally being in a situation like that. She's proven she can't be trusted and has no respect or consistency for her partners. If you read more about the AP style, I was textbook. Everything that science says about the patterns, beliefs, bad boundaries, undue self-blame and repeating the most self-negative tracks in my own mind for any given situation that didn't go as I expected, rumination about finding magical formulas to fix things, fear of abandonment, fear of failure, lack of self-acceptance, looking for external validation since I didn't trust myself, wondering what was wrong with me since my romantic relationships always seemed so difficult relative to other people's and how could all my partners treat me badly if I didn't deserve it (it's because I only chose avoidants, it wasn't because I sucked), putting others always before self, feeling ashamed of having needs and more ashamed to communicate them, feeling overly responsible for the feelings of others, not being able to emotionally self-regulate, not being confident in knowing what I wanted in life. Now, all those things together sound horrible, but most people didn't know I was always feeling that sort of inner stress, so it didn't impact my friendships or career or anything. Those were pretty stable, and I was always a reliable and committed person. It most prominently came out in my chaotic romantic relationships (the earliest of which were codependent) and then feeling disproportionately devastated and incapacitated when my we-got-past-the-honeymoon-stage longer relationships would end. I followed sparks and chemistry, I always had to prove my value constantly so a partner wouldn't leave me, I assumed everyone viewed and prioritized love the same way I did so if it wasn't granted there was something wrong with me, I wasn't deciding if the partner was right for me, I was just trying to give them enough to convince them to not leave me. None of this was conscious. But it was exhausting. And now I'm just like, what the hell. I did a lot of work to change all that, but I completely trust myself and my own decisions, I'm not ashamed to communicate what I want, I don't make excuses for other people who are causing drama and chaos due to their own issues, I don't take on more blame than is fairly my share, I have good boundaries and remove myself from bad situations even if it means breaking up with someone, I take full responsibility for my choices and don't expect other people will inherently have my best interests at heart so they'll protect me the same I'd protect them (ie I don't default distrust others, but if they are showing me I can't trust them then I need to take responsibility for protecting myself, whether that means not getting very attached to people of bad character or knowing someone makes a good party friend but I shouldn't make them an emergency medical contact), I'm not afraid of abandonment because I've got me plus I don't over-invest my identity in others (especially not people who have shown me I can't trust them), I'm not afraid of direct communication, I can articulate my boundaries and thoughts better because I'm not worried about codependently managing someone else's feelings (they are adults too and I shouldn't be mean but should treat them as being capable of managing their own feelings and not treat them as children), I don't fear failure, I don't believe I've caused the worst in a dissatisfying situation, I'm present and not ruminating with one foot in the past and one in the future, I'm not chasing and mostly seeing potential instead of what's in front of me. It's a total reconditioning, and it's because I healed the trauma that caused my AP in childhood, I built up my sense of self and self-acceptance without letting the expectations of others define it, I leaned into when I would have my nervous system overwhelm and trigger anxious and looked at it with openness and curiosity to learn the patterns and then practiced managing it and self-soothing (the triggering also stopped once I related it back to fear of abandonment and strengthened my own identity and esteem enough to stop irrationally fearing I couldn't survive losing certain relationships), and I started putting myself first instead of overly focusing on others. Not in a selfish way, just in a learning the meaning of appropriate boundaries way. It was incredibly bizarre to wake up one day thinking totally differently, because for a while after that I couldn't predict my responses to things anymore. But I went with it, finding it a lot less stressful because unimportant things didn't really matter as much to me anymore, and I was curious to find out what I'd do next. And now I totally trust myself and understand myself better so it no longer feels foreign... and I make waaaaay better dating decisions because I'm just trying to get to know the other person and gauge our compatibility. I'm no longer projecting a whole love story of positivity on them while making myself the villain in my own head if I failed to win them over and allowed them to treat me without as much respect as I deserve. You have a fair bit of avoidance mixed in too that I never had, so I don't expect your general thought patterns to totally mirror my AP ones. Maybe when you're triggered anxious, such as currently.
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Post by anapol on Feb 16, 2020 6:51:20 GMT
Any FA's out there who can comment on this? I'm very curious too. Have you taken an attachment assessment? You can have a primary insecure style, but be securely attached to friends and other people who don't aggravate it / trigger your attachment system. But you'll still default to an insecure pattern under stress, or possibly around family or romantic intimacy (depending on what triggers you). I was textbook AP forever, yet I was still securely attached to my parents and friends and have some friends for longer than 20 years. However, just because I was securely attached to them didn't mean either I was secure or even that they were secure. At least one of my parents is AP, some of my closest friends are DA (one who has also earned secure at this point, woo hoo!), and most of the duration of my relationships with those people I was AP in primary general attachment style. Didn't mean I couldn't have secure relationships with anyone at all... basically just couldn't have easy relationships romantically until I earned secure. dianepooleheller.com/attachment-test/(Secure overall style is generally 60-65%+) I got 54% Having personally transitioned from AP to secure thought patterns and being able to intimately describe the difference, I can answer your first question. It has to do with projection. While secure people can really like and get excited about someone, it takes some time to actually get to know someone. If they are looking for a serious relationship, a secure person is likely to invest at an appropriate level against how well they truly know someone, hold solid boundaries (they're looking to share and enhance their lives, but not to lose their identity in someone else), and create a solid bond over time that's about connection and not about getting swept up in a fantasy of potential. They don't start from a distrustful place, and assume they can trust unless the potential partner proves them wrong, but they still want to see that their trust is being properly earned and the person is reliable and consistent and has good communication before they give themselves away and attach. They're also aware of the difference between limerence / lust and actual commitment / love, and that the nature of feelings does change over time as connection deepens, and that doesn't scare them or feel empty to them, so there's not so much reason to rush. The problem with quickly getting love bombed with words and affection and possibly even grand gestures is the connection isn't real yet, no matter how it feels. The person doesn't know you yet, and everything they're doing is a projection. This will happen if the person is emotionally unstable and has a weak sense of self and identity, and can manifest due to a couple types of motivations (such as insecure attachment or even narcissism). It's primarily about what they need, how they wished they felt, their fantasy, distraction from themselves and their inner pain, and control (if you are hooked on them, you won't leave them, so they want this in order to maintain control). It's not about true connection, which is why it's not sustainable. If everything doesn't feel perfect, they have to feel their own problems and emptiness that they don't understand and don't know how to fix. Idolizing you allows them to feel like all their problems are solved as long as they can just keep feeling that way... which they can't, since their problems weren't caused by and can't be solved by you My situation is a little confusing with the whole not knowing somebody thing. My ex was sort of brought into my social circle, we hung out in group settings a handful of times, slept together a couple of times before we started dating. The first time we really started dating, things definitely moved quickly but she wasn't professing her love for me. But I was getting texts saying I can't stop thinking about you, I can't get you out of my head, thought about you all night, wish you were here, her telling me how amazing I am and how happy she is with me. And we did immediately start spending 2-3 times a week together and texting every day. Then when she ended things saying she wasn't read for a serious relationship, we saw each other in group settings a few times, slept together a few times, then started dating again. This time she pretty quickly did say she loves me and never stopped thinking about me etc. Which at the time, and even a little now, didn't seem that crazy because we did know each other, we had a history, so it's not like we had just met, just started dating and within a few weeks she's telling me she loves me. I don't know if it was love bombing or just being really excited about us. It's not like she was saying I want to marry you, trying to spending every waking moment with me, telling me we're soulmates. It was more she expressed and displayed very high interest I think. I guess the problem was I ate it up? I definitely could have been more discerning the second time around considering our past but I really wanted to be with her because I really felt a strong connection to her, was really happy and into her the first time around so I really wanted this relationship to work. For the first two months, I wouldn't commit to her (although she committed to me), I tried to play it cool, but in my heart I really wanted it to happen and to work and thought with the way everything has played out, the things she said, the things she was doing pointed to her feeling very similar things, so I just kind of dove in after a couple of months. So in those situations, all that excessive feeling is about them, not you, and isn't sustainable. It was just given, not earned. And I don't mean earning love / chasing conditional love, I mean getting to know who a person is over time and seeing if that person is consistent and stable -- earning mutual trust, and really seeing that person for who they are, not for how they make you feel. Someone who is ready to jump into a fantasy ... maybe think about it as you said, wants to always be on vacation and not have real responsibilities and a deeper sense of who they are. They just want to be their vacation-identity and ignore true deep commitments and all the rest. With less to lose, because anyone can enjoy a sexy honeymoon period, they go all in to the fantasy. Are you more likely to be open and fun if you've got a short window to do something on vacation, thinking less about your longer-term normal life in that moment of enjoyment? It's fun, but the only way it's sustainable is if the person is already whole and not looking to you to fill a void. In that case, they can be teaming up with you to share new adventures, but they're not looking to idealize the relationship in order to escape boredom and negative feelings inside. No one with good boundaries or who isn't trying to be controlling will put all that responsibility on you, so their average levels of affection, words of affirmation, nice actions, etc. will be more balanced and consistent and not high highs and on and off drama that reflects their unsettled mindset. I have no idea if this girl is pretty much normal and despite her words and actions of love and commitment she just suddenly realized her feelings weren't there, she didn't love me enough anymore, whatever it may have been that she felt she had to break up with me. Or if this girl really does have issues and there is absolutely nothing I could have done and no matter what she did or I did or anything that could have happened between us, the relationship would have ended. Seeing that this girl was my first relationship, I've never experienced such sudden changes with a significant other before, but more telling for me is I've never heard of it happening to any of my friends either. I went into it thinking she was just another nice, sweet, normal girl. I just thought we had a rare connection and such a great time together and that's what explained things moving rather quickly and all the expressions/actions of affection/love. Not that I was looking for a relationship when I met her but I was thinking about this today. Prior to her, I never looked at girls I was talking to or hooking up with from the lens of "hmm is this girl relationship material? is the way she's acting/the things she's doing/the things she's saying, indicative of a good girlfriend?". I just didn't think anything of the women in my life. For me, it was fun, it was sex, it was entertaining, etc. I wasn't evaluating. Especially when I think about girls that had boyfriends or were seeing somebody or girls that I knew slept around, I wasn't thinking "wow this girl is messed up, this girl is not relationship material". I didn't think at all, but if I had to guess what my subconscious was registering it was probably something along the lines of "heh I just got laid. she's hot. that was cool." But maybe if I had thought a bit more about the situation with this girl, I would have avoided her from the get go. We slept together casually multiple times, which hey I'm all for sleep with who you want, but I have 3 sisters and some friends that are girls, when the girls that I know are looking for a relationship, they don't just give it up so easily. Then when she was "hooking up" with this kid I knew for about 3-4 weeks, she slept with me. Sure they weren't official, but I know they were hanging out once or twice a week, probably talking pretty often, and she slept with me. Maybe another indicator for not relationship material? Then she started "dating" some guy from out of town for about a month or month and a half. We saw each other, hooked up but didn't sleep together and even made plans for our first date. She wound up cancelling those plans because she wanted to end things with the other guy first and he was coming for an already planned visit, but still, she's seeing somebody for a month or so and hooks up with me and makes plans with me behind this guys back. Probably should have been another red flag to me right? Instead of seeing those things as red flags though, I thought she was a nice normal sweet girl. I knew she had one or two serious boyfriends in high school. And I knew she had just ended things with her boyfriend of 3-3.5 years about 8 months earlier. So my thoughts were, she's the type of girl that prefers a relationship, knows how to be in one and maintain one and what it all entails. All the stuff I just wrote in the paragraph above was all due to this amazing connection and I was basically the chosen one that she just couldn't stay away from, wanted to be with more than anybody, that she was just so damn into me nobody could compare and she had to be with me. One thing that is bothering me SOOOO much right now, and I know this may come off as immature or petty, but understand it's really more a matter of what this means in our times and generation... We dated twice, had a handful of times together in between relationships, every time we did something I planned out such fun cool unique dates and she always said how I spoiled her and she has the best time with me, texting me in the middle of the night how much she loves me, writing me a love poem, all of that, and I'm pretty sure she never posted anything of me or us on social media. Now she's dating this new fucking kid for a couple of months, he's living with her the last month, and she's posted a whole bunch of stuff of him and them together, and the real kick in the nuts was obviously seeing what she posted today (I know I shouldn't have checked but I just had to know, I must enjoy the pain or something). It's like what is she so much more in love and crazy about this guy than she ever were me? Why didn't she want the world to know about me but she's posting things of her and this new guy all over the place? Did I mean so little to her? How could he possibly mean that much more? It looks like this kid is getting the absolute best of her. That she's so wildly in love with him that she's doing whatever she can to make this ridiculous long distance relationship work, that she would never do anything to hurt him. Or maybe that's just a stupid narrative I've created? Maybe she really does have issues. I mean a lot of people have said that, and not just family or friends that will say things like that to make you feel better, a lot of people on different forums have said she's got some mental/emotional problems. And I try to tell myself that too many people have pointed to that for it not to be true. And if that is true, she hasn't done any work on herself because she doesn't even know she has problems and therefore the same pattern will play out and this kid is no different. I mean jeez it was just back in August she was dating somebody else, while sleeping with this boat servant guy for a week behind the other dudes back, took the other dude on a family vacation when she got home, then blindside dumped him stating 2 of the same exact things she said to me as reasons for ending it with him. Then a month later starts this relationship. That wasn't that long ago at all that she was being shady with guys and blindside dumping somebody partly because "he always did what she wanted to do". That was 6 months ago. She hasn't changed at all. I'm trying to remain focused on myself as much as possible though. And I am excited about the stuff that I'm doing these days. But yea I think about her, I wake up and always think about how I used to wake up with her wrapped around me, I think about what happened, I think about what's happening now |
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Post by maxymax on Mar 17, 2020 15:21:02 GMT
Stupid thoughts. No need for this post.
Need to continue reminding myself of everything in here already.
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Post by dhali on Mar 17, 2020 15:59:40 GMT
Are you also confusedm? Because if you’re not, you’re living parallel lives |
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Post by maxymax on Mar 17, 2020 16:33:50 GMT
Are you also confusedm? Because if you’re not, you’re living parallel lives Nope will look at his posts maybe we can commiserate lol |
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Post by dhali on Mar 17, 2020 19:51:55 GMT
I mean down to the boat hand person! And the exact revelations on the same exact day while high.
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- Just took it again and got 52% secure, 20.6% anxious, 17.6% avoidant, 8.9% disorganized
I can't add anything you haven't already heard anyway, either from me or others. She has issues that make her a terrible partner, and I personally couldn't tolerate all her weak boundaries around hooking up with several people when she's already somewhat involved with someone. I just assume she cheats, and would cheat on me. People have every right to be physical if they want to with however many people they want, but when it isn't transparent and okay with both parties, if someone thinks there's commitment and she's doing it behind someone's back, I have zero tolerance for personally being in a situation like that. She's proven she can't be trusted and has no respect or consistency for her partners.